First songwriting attempt

[BIGDOG]

Whoops sorry. Trying to download song with no success.

[dwoz]

Its an especially noteworthy addition to the "Minimalist Canon"...


It was my pleasure to once be in the audience when John Cage played "4:33" . THis is easily in the same league.


bravo.


dwoz

[st robert]

Its an especially noteworthy addition to the "Minimalist Canon"...


It was my pleasure to once be in the audience when John Cage played "4:33" . THis is easily in the same league.


bravo.


dwoz

i completely agree. the counterpoint movements at 2:36 invoked paroxysms of feeling, whilst i sat, humbled at the scope and depth of arrangement and the obvious care involved in this production.

awestruck, i am at your service.

rob

[Mixerman]

I especially love the subtle and understated repetition of the theme throughout the piece.

I understand that you are looking for songwriting critiques, but I would be remiss if I were to neglect kudos for your remakably transparent mix.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[dikledoux]

It's refreshing to hear someone willing to buck the trend in the loudness wars. Pure no-ear-fatigue listening pleasure. I could've listened to it for hours.

dik

[archtop]

Simon and Garfunkle are pleased with your rendition.

[BIGDOG]

Ok here it is smart boys!

[emtou2u]

Bigdog – 1st attempt heh? Me thinks you exaggerate. :Wink: Impressive.


As a message song this is very successful. You took the first person approach (I,we) and let us know her desire or discovery. Her enthusiasm motivates us to believe her. I don’t feel preached at and this is refreshing. The message here is so powerful that it needs equally powerful music as the conduit. Weak lyrics need even stronger music to push them through…but that is not the case here. That said, I really appreciate this song. Lyrics, music and message.

IMHO, the real message is being delivered at about 1:56 and unfortunately this is where the music and back up vox get “smushed” (professional word) up until 2:18 – she is battling the guitars, drums, etc. exactly when I really want to hear what she has to say. I also think the last 25-30 seconds could be lost….

My .01…



BTW, nice set o’ lungs on the vocalist.

[StudioF]

?

[emtou2u]

are you Bigdog or StudioF? Did I make a mistake?

OK...now I'm really confused....the StudioF reply just turned into "?" -- too much change for me...I get confused easily....:Confused:

:lol:

[BIGDOG]

It was recorded at Studio F and I'm at the studio now. I was logged in on their account. I'm BIGDOG!!! Thanks again for the positive feedback!
BIGDOG

[emtou2u]

ah....all so much clearer now...

you're welcome...

cheers!

[dwoz]

can you open up that comp and let the snare breathe a bit? Its turning bluish-purple and I think its going to pass out. maybe just a tad slower attack.

So...songwriting. I think you probably only have to write this song perhaps two or three more times before you have it out of your system. But that's a good thing...hone your craft by revisiting a single idea, until you find the best approach for you.

Your lyrics: try to think of this: what is in there for ME after about the first verse/chorus? your whole song is done at that point. You never give me anything more than what you've already given me at the end of the first verse/chorus.

What I'm looking for here, is some kind of "twist" or some kind of unanticipated turn, like it turns out you're a stalker...or you're standing on the guy's grave, or I dunno...something that makes me feel that the last 2/3 of the song weren't a waste of my time.

This kind of comes back to the same point I had for your other song...telling a story. What's the story?

Again, part of the story is the story Arc. how's it shaped? when does it hit top?

Now, I wouldn't suggest a re-write, because you're writing another one anyway. This being a "first kiss", it should stand as is, so you can look back at it as a milestone, and see how far you've come with what you're writing next year.(next week?).

dwoz

[BIGDOG]

DWOZ, hey there! Thanks for your reply!
Please give me an example. Any particular song in mind? I love songs that are simple lyrically but to the point and effective without having to be so elaborate and wordy. I think theres a real art to keeping songs simple lyrically but effective. With a strong and catchy hook. Like Coldplay. The first and second c.d. Examples: Warning Sign, In My House,Yellow. Very simple lyrically. Tom Petty: Free Fallin, I Won't Back Down, Don't Come Around Here No More. Brilliant songs, yet so simple lyrically.
Your thoughts?
BIGDOG

[dwoz]

Now, I'm not saying you have to write a book. Your verses could be haiku and it would still apply.


Tom Petty...



Chorus:
Don’t come around here no more
Don’t come around here no more
Whatever you’re looking for
Hey, don’t come around here no more

I’ve given up,
I’ve given up --
I’ve given up on waiting any longer
I’ve given up, on this love getting stronger

I don’t feel
you anymore
You darken my door
Whatever you’re looking for
Hey, don’t come around here no more

I’ve given up,
I’ve given up
I’ve given up, you tangle my emotions
I’ve given up, honey please admit it’s over

Chorus
Don’t come around here no more
Don’t come around here no more
Whatever you’re looking for
Hey, don’t come around here no more

Stop walking down my street
Who do you expect to meet?
Whatever you’re looking for
Hey, don’t come around here no more

Here, we have a lyric about a broken relationship...or do we? It starts first couplet there (the chorus), seems pretty much down that road. Relationship is over, I don't want to see you again. Then in first verse (second block of lyrics) we find that he's angry and resolute, and knows just where he stands. Next, we REALLY find out that he's utterly conflicted, powerless, though he knows that this love isn't going to get any better, he isn't asking her to stay away because of anger or hate or lack of love, but because he's UTTERLY HELPLESS. In fact, the end of the tune has him moaning like a helpless child about his indecision.

Its quite a good little minimal use of words to do it, too. We get sucked into the song on one lyrical premise, and then the proverbial rug gets pulled out from under our feet, and we end the song on another!

the big deal here is that we have an emotional arc...starting off the song with cold, precise methodical male resolve...and it morphs into confused self-conflict...revealing his inner weakness. That's the payoff.

how's that for an example?

dwoz

[BIGDOG]

OKAY UNCLE!!!!!!!!

[dwoz]

Then again maybe we want to have just a good plain old simple, to the point song about fornication.


that's good, too.

dwoz

[Tim Halligan]

...and now I have a new sig...


Thanks dwoz. :D


Cheers,
Tim

[Brendo]

What I'm looking for here, is some kind of "twist" or some kind of unanticipated turn, like it turns out you're a stalker...or you're standing on the guy's grave, or I dunno...something that makes me feel that the last 2/3 of the song weren't a waste of my time.

Some songs do this very late in the game:


don't let your life wrap up around you
don't forget to call, whenever
i'll be here just waiting for you
i'll be under your stars forever
neither here nor there just right beside you
i'll be under the stairs forever
neither here nor there just right beside you

The song takes on a creepy twist, just as it starts to fade out...

The next song on the album (Lily, My One And Only) continues the same theme...

cause i'm hanging in this tree
in the hopes that she will catch a glimpse of me
and thru her window shade
i watch her shadow move
i wonder if she.......?