Band Setup Rules

[Spock]

We've had a few things about dos and don'ts from the sound check, band, and venue perspective. I thought some things about how to load in and setup in small spaces would be "common sense", however I found my head spinning last night at the stupid things people do.

I'm talking about small places, small groups were you don't have roadies or staff to help out.

First know how you want to setup. You do have some type of stage plot right? Some places require you to squeeze in so you may have to make some adjustments. If you have never been to this place, or you haven't checked it out in advance, be prepared to make changes.

If you know the place and know that they have to re-arrange a few tables to make the band space, then don't sit around drinking a beer waiting for the someone to do the work. The people working are taking care of people, don't expect them to think, "Hey it's the drummer from The Kean-Tones, I need to drop what I've been doing, ignore other customers, and get the place ready for them." Politely ask them if you can help get the space ready. This will give them the hint that you are with the band, and also get you started on a good note with them.

Next item, the more in the back and bigger it is, bring it in first. I once worked with a woodwind player that would setup his stuff and tune it while we were still bringing in PA gear. We would just have to move his saxes out of the way and put them back later. Hey give a hand with this stuff.

If you are a drummer and because of the floor surface you need to carpet, then this should be the first thing you bring in and put down.

Don't put cases where the equipment needs to go. Think about it, you put down a case, and then pull the equipment out, then you have to move the case, and then put things where you really want it. It seems so simple, but I can't tell you how many times people violate this rule.

Next once it is all in and the big stuff is setup, then think about what should be hooked up first. My rule is the more important it is, and the less likely the cables will move, the sooner you should hook it up. For example, power the main PA before the wall warts for the guitar players pedals.

Last, wait until everything is in, setup, wired and line tested before you pretty things up. Yea, you want to get the finger prints off the drum hardware, but if do it as you setup each thing, you are in the way of everyone else for a much longer time.

Like I said these things all sound like real basics ideas, but I keep getting surprised.

[pounce]

the thing you wrote that i'm fixated on right now is about putting things in the right place the first time.

double handle randall.


don't make stuff get moved two or three times when once will do. putting cases where you are going to have to move them, and loading in gear in the wrong order are easily avoidable rookie mistakes.

i once worked for a strange guy who was insistant that we put stuff into it's place as we loaded off the truck. his lesson really stuck with me. it's funny how that kind of thinking and behavior becomes almost automatic once you realize it's advantages, like less work and faster setup time with fewer frustrations.

[Spock]

Yes the double moving is deadly. If the place has a good amount of space, and you want to play those games with your own equipment, be my guest.

However, when space is very limited, and other can't setup until you have things set, then your stupidity is now hloding up everyone.

[bunnerabb]

Good... very.

A Few addenda:

Carry a few quad box Edison outlet drops with at least 10' of decent power cable on them, and extension cords.

You might not know where the power is of it it can be used. You may need to feed something from the kitchen. Be prepared. When you go in to meet the owners or staff and start to get sorted out, be polite, have a couple of guys help the staff arrange the table to clear a stage area, the most articulate of the crew or the band leader should be getting info from the owners or staff as to what works for them in that room, so you'll have some clear concept of where to set and in what sized footprint, and the guy who knows power should be going from outlet to outlet with one of these,

http://www.picvault.info/images/537026954_edison_check.jpg

seeing what's what.

Once you know where you're going to be, load in the way Spock said, everybody get the racks and stacks up, or the mains on the little sticks, whatever. Place the mixer in reach of the guy who deals with it, set up as close as you can for your work comfort zone.

Don't stand there with your thumb in your nosehole fiffing with your axe. Rehearsal is not tonight. Once the PA and backline are up, eveerybody start knitting your cabling.

YOU SHOULD BE WELL ABLE TO POWER UP YOUR WHOLE RIG OFF OF ONE PLUG. You either have a master A/C plug off of the Furman P/L-8 or you have a Hubbell connector for power but ONE FREAKING POWER FEED! It's a system, not a bunch of shit in a box. And by your whole rig, I mean, the bass rig is one one, the guitar rigs is on one, etc.. the PA may well require two or more and if you troop lighting, you're probably gonna need a decent distro that passes NEC. PARs are going the way of the dinosaur but even movers take up a lot of amps and dirty juice and stepping motors are not a good couple.

Do this while the drummer sets up, then ,mic, dress cables and check.

If there's no room in the bar for case ditch, stick them in the van or the biggest vehicle until load-out.

[bunnerabb]

And keep your A/C and mic cabling runs and other shit away from happy feet. Lawsuits do not a good evening out make. Use Pro Gaff if you have to and wash and wipe your cabling down with this tire stuff:

http://www.picvault.info/images/537026955_Tire_wet.jpg

It's the nazz. They look pretty, the PVC jacket stays nicer and almost nothing sticks to it.

[dikledoux]

Things I have learned:
The less trips you gotta make to your car, truck, van or whatever, the quicker you get in and out, and the less stuff you forget to bring. So as much as you can fit in a case or box and still handle the load - DO IT.

For instance - My drum set is a 3-trip deal for one person, because I have bags for the drums/cymbals and a big-ass box on wheels for ALL the hardware. 1 - Kick and snare. 2 - Two toms and Cymbals. 3 - The box. That's IT. I get someone to help me get the box in and outta my Jeep and it rolls the rest of the way.

Another for-instance - A rack full of power amps seems like a crazy-heavy thing, but if you get a good case with monstrous wheels then all you have to do is get it up and down from the vehicle with the help of one other person, then roll it everywhere.

Oh yeah. If you have anything that doesn't have wheels, get wheels or get a hand-truck. One with skid plates on the back so you can get up and down curbs, etc. by yourself. And not some wimpy wal-mart hand-truck. One sturdy enough to move refrigerators with. If it has a strap to keep things on the hand-truck, that's nice too.

And last but not least - Pack up and load your stuff the exact same way every time. Get anal-retentive about it and you'll quit losing things or running outta room in your vehicle. If it's a routine, you'll be done FASTER than the disorganized people and you'll REMEMBER if you packed stuff or not because you'll have a mental video of the entire process.

dik

[bunnerabb]

the thing you wrote that i'm fixated on right now is about putting things in the right place the first time.

double handle randall.


don't make stuff get moved two or three times when once will do. putting cases where you are going to have to move them, and loading in gear in the wrong order are easily avoidable rookie mistakes.

i once worked for a strange guy who was insistent that we put stuff into it's place as we loaded off the truck. his lesson really stuck with me. it's funny how that kind of thinking and behavior becomes almost automatic once you realize it's advantages, like less work and faster setup time with fewer frustrations.

Pet peeve:

Moving shit twice.

"OK.. first we take it out of the truck, then into the club, then we place it ..."

"No. We take it out of the truck put it where it will live, for that show and repeat."

[Johnny]

Good stuff. I carry my kit in a big ol' coffin box so it's one trip, albeit a big one.

Drummers: put your carpet (which is spiked for your stands, right?) down first. Claim your area so everyone can know where to put their stuff. Get there first so no one has to move their stuff for you.

[Brendo]

About "moving shit twice"... my band tends to play a lot of gigs where we have to load our stuff into a room out back, and then move it onstage when we're on?

[floodstage]

Two things that have been mentioned that need to be reinforced.

1) you should be able to plug your shit into one plug. Guitar players should carry their own power strips if they need one.

2) Drummers need to bring a drum rug! (and get it down before the stage is covered with wires)

[pounce]

it's been said already, but bears repeating


wheels



they've been around for a fucking long time now ya know. decent cases with proper handles and wheels is where it's at to protect your gear and get it rolling from the vehicle to the stage. sized such that they can fit through standard doors or in standard elevators or every other scenario you could imagine having to load in to. if you are ever going to play at a corporate party at a downtown hotel you'll have the pleasure of loading in through a kitchen quite possibly. being able to move as much stuff as possible with the fewest trips, but still navigate through a busy kitchen is a goal all the while being sure you don't have stuff so heavy or big that you can't deal with it.

at the very least having some sort of handtruck or dolly that can be used with the gear. just make sure you have something.

[Droolbucket]

A few more off the top of my head....

Instruments and electronics get unloaded first. In cold climates, you want the guitars, amps, and mix board to get to room temperature before you open that guitar case or power up the amp rack. I've seen a few pieces of gear go up in smoke because someone didn't wait for the condensation to evaporate before they hit the power button.
Make sure everyone in the band knows the power up/power down sequence... I've had a few 18" subs blown because a band member shut off the FOH while the power amps were still turned up.
Everybody should have an assigned job.... most experienced band members will automatically jump in and do whatever needs to be done, but I've seen my share of prima donnas who set up their own rig, then have a cigarette and a beer while everyone else busts ass to make soundcheck. One good band meeting will usually get a game plan mapped out, so that everyone knows their responsibilities. Ask everyone to be punctual, and pull their weight. (One of the few times I blew up was after a long tiring weekend. We were getting ready to tear down and load up, and I had about 4 hours before I had to be at work at my day gig. The trumpet player threw his trumpet in the case, and announced, "Gotta go! Early tee time!". I had a fire-and-brimstone band meeting that week...)
Droolbucket

[Johnny]

My old cover band did that--assigned duties. There were jobs to do before and after the gig, spelled out in detail. We rotated them every month so no one got stuck with any one job. We even had a docking system for not having your work done soon enough after the show (some of us, ahem, wanted to be home as soon as possible). I thought it worked great. We were a machine.

[Swafford]

I have a few thoughtfull suggestions:

If your in first, drop all your shit right by the door so everyone can stumble over it.

Get drunk before you set up. That way your hung over by the time it comes to play.

[micguy]

When you're done playing, get your fragile and expensive instrument off the stage, so I can tear down mic cables without worrying about denting it. Having to work around your axe while you're out chatting up the girls in the place doesn't do much for my state of mind. Yes, you want to act like a rock star, but if you can't afford to pay roadies to do it for you, do it yourself.

[rockdart]

If you're a singer, it doesn't mean that you just tear down your wireless mic and rack and then get to go glad-hand, hit on chicks, etc.

If you're the Drummer and your kick drum is the 5th thing in the truck/trailer/van (after the bass cabs and guitar cabs), don't put your cymbals away first - do the freaking kick drum.

Pack the truck the same way everytime - as everyone's said, the routine and consistency is a key element to being quick, efficient and stops the "3rd idiot check".

If you're a drummer, please go buy or make a freaking coffin with wheels to put your hardware in - that oversized duffle bag sucks.

Guitar player - your time to warm up is before it's time to play. Not with the volume on while the sound man is trying to mic shit and your show time is in 5 minutes.

If you can't load directly to stage, have the gear staged in order, farthest to nearest.

Don't make the road manager/leader/whatever have to herd chickens. When it's time to work, be ready to work and in a group to get moving. Scattering to the four winds is what we'll do with your ashes.

If your old lady is a pain in the ass, please leave her home.

No significant others on tour - it's a working trip, not a pleasure cruise.

Pack the heaviest sh*t over the wheels in the truck, van, trailer if possible and balanced left to right.

Unless you like changing tires or your shorts after a huge adrenaline rush.

[Tim Armstrong]

It's ALL about having a system. We load PA, guitars, bass and amps in my brother's Jeep Cherokee, and drums go in our drummer's minivan. He gets there first, unloads his stuff, gets the kit together. We show up, unload our stuff in the same order every time: guitars, bass, speaker stands, mic stands, amplifiers, crate full of cables, PA head (we use a powered Yamaha box, sure is EASY!), main speakers, monitor speakers. We run our cables, then we set up our instrument/amp rigs. Then we have a ceremonial shot of Jamesons.

Load out: exactly in reverse, with everything going in the same place every time. Then we help our drummer carry his stuff out (we usually have the Jeep packed before he has his kit apart).

Cheers, Tim

[eagan]

This is great stuff.

I was about to pipe up and say something about the Lead Singer's Disease factor (i.e., "OK, my mic stand is in its spot, time for me to go get a beer and charm the wimmens with my glorious leadsingerness"), but Mr. Rockdart finally touched on that.

Maybe the best distilled bit o' wisdom is "it's all about a system".

Considering that the obvious main value of this stuff is for people who are playing bar gigs and also usually playing locally, where people are hauling in their own gear and often not all arriving at the same time (that might be a point right there....in this case, plan on a time to arrive at the same time!), there's another little point to throw in.

The joy of cramming a band on funky, small, often really ODD bar stages means probably having never quite the same physical layout of everything at any two given venues.

So, bearing that in mind, make it a point for everybody in the band to have enough general awareness of everybody else's setup and overall needs so that when you get into someplace you've never played before, and suddenly find that you have a bit of a puzzle to figure out, you don't blow a half hour in fucking stupid arguments (in front of the venue staff and management, naturally) about whose stuff goes where and who will be where when it's showtime.


JLE

[bobzilla77]

Incidentally you can get a collapsable cart at the Guitar Center for less than $100. I can do the entire kit in TWO trips as long as there are no stairs. Best thing I ever bought.

[Spock]

Trust me I would never put up with someone that doesn't chip in on the setup. A long time ago I was in a band with a woman lead singer. She was able to lug the big stuff, but she did everything she could to help get setup. While the rest of us where bringing in and setting the heavy things, she got all the stands, cable boxes, things like that. By the time I had my keys setup she had everyone's mic on the stands and plugged into the stage box.

A quick sound check, and then we all go change, guys into tuxes and her into a dress.

So yea, we had a system, and it worked well.

With the current band things work well if we have just a bit of space. However the drummer doesn't seem to understand we have to wait on him to finish our setup when the space in limited.

From a personal standpoint I hate running around setting up like crazy and then only having one minute to get my head in order and start playing. Yea it happens sometimes and nothing you can do about it.

[Brendo]

Show up for soundcheck.

Know when soundcheck is.

If you're not going to soundcheck, make sure everyone knows, so the soundguy doesn't travel an hour and a half in peak hour, only to be sitting around for another hour and a half doing nothing.

[Dr. Bob]

Just as every band needs a rider, input list and stage plot, another key item to make is a pack list.

It can change from gig to gig if you don't have a set vehicle, but then you should make a pack list for each pack.

Get a piece of paper and pencil... (crayons for drummers, of course!) and as you get stuff packed, make a diagram of where all the shit is. That way when you're a bit toasted from the gig, all the shit goes back exactly how it came out.

If you have a shitload of gear, the person who made the pack may not be available to call the pack on the out... that diagram can save you the cost of time and occasionally even a valuable piece of gear.

[bunnerabb]

Have at least one cat who can call the pack if you have a full system with lighting and shit.

Get the stuff to the truck as he calls it and then have him place and brace.

It may seem like less effort, for the truck guy, but it rolls like you wouldn't bleev.

[pounce]

if we are getting into the pack list and calling the pack (which i'm all for), then i'll mention this.

especially if you are playing smaller places without a dock and semi and crew, you'll want to pay even more attention to the ORDER in which things happen. a little load out choreography if you will.

don't just "pack" things, do it like the big shows and think about what you want first and what can wait to be last coming out of the vehicle. generally lights and sound first, music gear second. therefore you pack the music gear first and the light and sound gear last. the reverse is likely true on the out. you'll take all the instruments first, small "steal-able" things like mics as soon as possible too. lastly the big stuff that gets packed in the back.

or whatever system works for you.

that said, you'll want to consider how and when you break stuff down, pack it, and send it to the vehicle so that you send them IN THE ORDER that you want to pack them. not willy nilly. not in some out of order fashion that will tend to mean that the area near the vehicle is all jammed up with gear out of order.

smaller acts may never have considered this. i didn't until the first time i was dealing with larger scale touring shows. they have numerous semi's worth of gear to keep straight, they had to be organized. it's a beautiful thing to see. then i think back to my most rookie gigs, and i can only say i wish i knew then what i know now. i could have shaved all sorts of time off of the in and out if i did things the way i do now.

[ggunn]

They call me the packman. I have a knack for visualizing solid geometries, so once all the gear is consolidated, I get in the truck and holler "gimme the ___". I know where everything goes, and there is a minimum amount of settling in transit.

Like we are all saying, having a system is paramount.

[Dr. Bob]

especially if you are playing smaller places without a dock and semi and crew, you'll want to pay even more attention to the ORDER in which things happen. a little load out choreography if you will.

don't just "pack" things, do it like the big shows and think about what you want first and what can wait to be last coming out of the vehicle. generally lights and sound first, music gear second. therefore you pack the music gear first and the light and sound gear last. the reverse is likely true on the out. you'll take all the instruments first, small "steal-able" things like mics as soon as possible too. lastly the big stuff that gets packed in the back.

<snippage>it's a beautiful thing to see. then i think back to my most rookie gigs, and i can only say i wish i knew then what i know now. i could have shaved all sorts of time off of the in and out if i did things the way i do now.

This is no lie!!

As a matter of fact, this past summer we did a whole series... granted this was a production company and didn't have to worry about backline, but we actually got the out down to about 1 hour and 35-40 minutes... 24 boxes FOH, sidefills, 12 wedges, 2 consoles, FOH and Mon procesing, 300' snake trunk, speaker cables, mic package, mic cables, edison trunks, 30Amp twist trunk, 2 distro's, 48 pars, dimmer rack, controller, 2 followspots, 2 bucks of scaff, 16' ramp and a 16' ladder... and that was from the time of the last note!

The ONLY way we could get done that quick was to have everything mapped out and the deck cleared in the right order to go on the trucks in pack order.

I've also done gigs as a drummer where it took 2 hours just to pack the band... and no sound gear whatsoever!! N-E-V-E-R A-G-A-I-N!!! -and no, it wasn't just cause I was the drummer either... we were ALL a buch of goofs' who had NO clue how to be organized and think to remember how we packed the shit in the first place. (Of course a couple of shots, a few beers and a fatty didn't fukin' help us out either.)

[eagan]

Maybe a couple little things here to add, since this does seem to be mostly educational for folks on the small bar band front.

Cases.

Now, of course, it's a regular thing at any level for people to have a case or three of what we'll just call "miscellaneous". Not carrying instruments and chunks of gear to and fro, just boxes carrying assorted bits of stuff to have around. Small tool kits. Spare drum bits that could get killed in action. Guitar strings, batteries and/or spare wallwarts, cables, whatever.

Going back to the theme of small bar gigs often being a puzzle of physical arrangment, sometimes it's handy to look at cases and see where they might actually be useful stage furniture of some sort. Especially when you're in venues where bar owners get downright crabby about equipment cases in the place taking up limited space, and maybe shuffling them back out to a band truck isn't a good option for some reason.

For the "miscellaneous stuff" cases that you want around, make sure that if you use cases for the physical setup, use the ones that actually are empty once setup is done. (Sounds obvious and dumb, but this thread is all about foresight and learning the hard way, eh?)

Kind of a bitch if, say, the drummer's kick pedal goes sproink and calls an early halt to the second set, and he does have a spare, BUT it's in the case that now happens top be holding up a guitar player's Twin and the keyboard player's fully loaded 12 space rack.

And for when you manage to be aware to not yourself into that particular corner, it's still not so great if it turns out that one of these "extra stuff" cases happens to now be stuffed in a corner somewhere where you can get it, once you ask a table of 12 half tanked bar clientele to get up and move and then unstack the three layers of cases thrown on top.

But I guess this is just more of the already stated stuff; a system and plan, and a place for everything (with contingency plan options) and everything in its place.


JLE

[Johnny]

The Chili Peppers used to require that crew members achieve a certain score at Tetris before hiring them. I think that's brilliant.

[rockdart]

I always thought the Van Halen story was pretty good - Dave giving out cash bonuses and other perks that can be found in R&R.

I think they went from 6-10 hr tear downs to 3-4.

But who's got extra $$ to throw around as motivation - or to hire a decent crew for that matter.

[Dr. Bob]

Rather than "hiring a decent crew", why not get the case thing down to the art form, then buy patrons/punters a beer for hauling the shit to the vehicles... DON'T let em' pack gear up... but hell, they can push a rolling case as well as most anyone else!

A beer can be as good of an incentive as $50!! Maybe give em' an autographed CD or some other swag... Beats breakin' your back!

[Starfucker]

A note on drum setup on small stages. before you start setting up, try to imagine where the amps will go and leave room for them. If there's gonna be a guitar and bass amp on the left, and only one guitar amp on the right... move your kit to the right. where there's room. might sound stupid, but I've been pulling carpets with drumkits more than twice...

[bunnerabb]

Case it or replace it.

If it goes in a rack, rack it.

If it goes into a rack and the rack is heavy, put wheels on it.

Those mics go in a mic box.

The mic cables go in the mic cable box.

There ain't no "Miscellaneous bits." You use it or you don't and if you use it, put it in a case.

Label that case.

[clicktrack]

Pet peeve:

Moving shit twice.

"OK.. first we take it out of the truck, then into the club, then we place it ..."

"No. We take it out of the truck put it where it will live, for that show and repeat."

The pack of the truck has been mentioned, but this goes hand-in-hand with the pack.

Its one thing to call the pack, but an EXPERT at calling the pack will pack it in such a way that the pieces that need to come off first will be right there. This avoids the "triple moving" - where you 1) move shit outa the way to get to the shit you need 2) move the shit you moved out of the way back into some safe temporary spot and 3) move the shit you moved back to its temp spot to its home later on.

Invariable, if it has to be touched twice, its gonna get bumped, broken or simply THROWN.

Show up for soundcheck.

Know when soundcheck is.

If you're not going to soundcheck, make sure everyone knows, so the soundguy doesn't travel an hour and a half in peak hour, only to be sitting around for another hour and a half doing nothing.
Another thing relating to soundcheck:

Bands: Soundcheck is NOT rehearsal time. When the sound crew calls for kick alone, no noodling from the guitarist. When the sound guy calls for a song, have one ready that is representative and doesn't need rehearsal. It doesn't do when the band starts and stops in the middle of the one song because johnny is playing the wrong rhythmic pattern on the way into the first chorus. You should know you shit by then.

[ggunn]

The mic cables go in the mic cable box.


I've got some of those orange plastic extension cord reels (available cheap at most hardware stores) that I store mic cables on. When we strike, we get everything off the stage but the mic cables, then one of us mans the reel and another feeds cables end to end, starting at the male (board or snake) end. We can reel up 20-30 mic cables in a couple of minutes, and the cables are stored untwisted (none of that around-the-elbow stuff) and untangled, and ready to peel off one by one at the next gig.

Works for me, anyway...

[Johnny]

It doesn't do when the band starts and stops in the middle of the one song because johnny is playing the wrong rhythmic pattern on the way into the first chorus. You should know you shit by then.
Hey!

[Johnny]

I've got some of those orange plastic extension cord reels (available cheap at most hardware stores) that I store mic cables on. When we strike, we get everything off the stage but the mic cables, then one of us mans the reel and another feeds cables end to end, starting at the male (board or snake) end. We can reel up 20-30 mic cables in a couple of minutes, and the cables are stored untwisted (none of that around-the-elbow stuff) and untangled, and ready to peel off one by one at the next gig.

Works for me, anyway...

My cover band did that. It worked great. Include a pair of work gloves with that reel--cables get funky.

[rockdart]

My cover band did that. It worked great. Include a pair of work gloves with that reel--cables get funky.

Sounds like a crappy old bar rag and some of bunner's magic cleaner wouldn't be a bad idea to keep all in one case with the reel and the gloves either.

[eagan]

There ain't no "Miscellaneous bits." You use it or you don't and if you use it, put it in a case.

Label that case.

Wise words from bunner in the post I snipped from.

But just to dwell on that one a second (going back to something I brought up), it might be a good nit to pick to differentiate between SR gear and musicians stage gear here.

On the musician's personal stage instruments and gear side of things, there are always some kind of "miscellaneous bits" to have at the gig that aren't really part of the onstage playing setup, but really need to be there just in case. Spares. Appropriate hand tools.

But like Bunner said, if you carry it with you, it goes in a case, even if that case is just named as some variation of "other loose stuff", and that case is organized neatly. Not a gym bag. Not a generic trunk/footlocker type box with a mass of shit tossed in a giant tangled pile inside.

Oh yeah. Before I forget, I have to disagree a little with Dr. Bob on "get the bodies standing around to help move it".

Bad idea. Bad bad bad. Been there. Watched the ensuing crashes.

JLE

[pounce]

I always thought the Van Halen story was pretty good - Dave giving out cash bonuses and other perks that can be found in R&R.

I think they went from 6-10 hr tear downs to 3-4.

But who's got extra $$ to throw around as motivation - or to hire a decent crew for that matter.

extra motivation is never a bad idea if a quick loadout matters. and if you have something to do the next day (including another show where you do it all over again) than there is some motivation to hurry up.

granted, i am IATSE myself, but i can truthfully say that appropriately sized crews of experienced people can do this faster than any number of inexperienced people. and safer for people and gear to be sure. in bigger shows this is much more apparent, in bar gigs its almost a moot point, so for this to be seen size matters. is there a little art to it? i'd say so. seeing folks who know how to pack, how to run a crew, how to call a pack, etc. get things done in amazing time is like poetry in motion.

[bunnerabb]

Sounds like a crappy old bar rag and some of bunner's magic cleaner wouldn't be a bad idea to keep all in one case with the reel and the gloves either.

As you pull those cable to the winding wheel, get a wet rag and pull them through it as you go.. you'd be amazed.

Do the tire cleaner thing about once a month.

[pounce]

as you wind up cables at the end of the gig and find they are a little wet from some liquid, do you know how to tell if it's beer, blood, or urine?

























answer - the taste


thank you very much

[rockdart]

oooh... that's getting into the "Roadies Creed" territory there!

[Brendo]

I've got some of those orange plastic extension cord reels (available cheap at most hardware stores) that I store mic cables on. When we strike, we get everything off the stage but the mic cables, then one of us mans the reel and another feeds cables end to end, starting at the male (board or snake) end. We can reel up 20-30 mic cables in a couple of minutes, and the cables are stored untwisted (none of that around-the-elbow stuff) and untangled, and ready to peel off one by one at the next gig.

Works for me, anyway...

Oh, fuck, I HATE this. I can't fucking stand it. I'm standing on stage with a 10 foot run from the drums to the stage box and the first cable off the reel is a 50 footer. FUCK THAT!

[bunnerabb]

Velcros.

Over and under.

Bags or cases for 10', 20', 25', and 50'...

All the jumpers go with the turnaround connects and gender benders.

[ggunn]

Oh, fuck, I HATE this. I can't fucking stand it. I'm standing on stage with a 10 foot run from the drums to the stage box and the first cable off the reel is a 50 footer. FUCK THAT!

FWIW, all but four of our cables are more or less the same length, and those really long ones go on a reel of their own. The connectors on both ends are clearly marked. YMMV, of course.

[Dr. Bob]

Oh yeah. Before I forget, I have to disagree a little with Dr. Bob on "get the bodies standing around to help move it".

Bad idea. Bad bad bad. Been there. Watched the ensuing crashes.

JLE

No prob!!! Yeah... you do GOTTA' use some smarts on this one!! You don't want to grab the last of the drunks to do anything other than show em' the door... that's for sure.

But what I've done in the past was put one band member w/a punter to roll em' out. They don't help load... just to help navigate halls, corners and when you got a long haul... more venue specific I guess you'ld say.

One band I know always looks for folks early, and promises drinks and swag if they'll stay (reasonably) sober and hang till the end. Usually they get one or two folks!! Quite often it's club employees, but hey, if they get sober help...

[eagan]

Even trying to avoid the obvious (random stranger shitfaced drunks), this kind of stuff can backfire when people think they're temporarily drafting more or less sensible and sober folks.

Maybe even worse if you get "help" from guys out to put on a good show of what quick, effecient, fast and hard working characters they are.

You know. Like, "since this box here has wheels on it, and these other boxes sitting here don't, I'll just stack them on top into a pile six feet high and start rolling at brisk pace" (down the path to the back door including the spot where the bar's added nice hardwood floor drops off to the original bare concrete). Or "this box" (with 200 pounds of power amps in it) "...has wheels, so I'll save time by just shoving it across the (dark, neglected, broken up pavement) parking lot 20 feet to the truck at 20 miles per hour". Or any other variations on a theme of learning about mass and inertia and center of gravity and the ability of little casters to handle rough terrain.

And the classic.... "don't worry, man, these guys have all their shit in, like, real professional equipment cases, you can't hurt anything". (translation....."wheee! let's play bumper cars!")

(There seems to be some sort of law of the universe in which this increases in direct proportion to the amount of aged battle scars on cases from years of gigs, thereby proving in some people's minds the notion of rugged invincibility.)

Extra "help" can pretty quickly seem not so helpful if it includes hearing "whoa....sorry, dude!".


JLE

[Dr. Bob]

Eagan,

Spot on observation!! I certainly have seen a couple of those types even on "pro" crews!! So, yeah I KNOW what you mean...

Lemme rephrase my point then, please.

You've GOTTA be smart if you enlist help... whether it be a pro crew or amatures. The key is to not let anyone roll cases or touch ANY gear unless they are under the direct supervision of a band member.

Be cautious in making the decision to let anyone but a pro crew assist with actually loading or unloading equipment. Pro crew's carry insurance... punter's don't! If they get hurt, you may end up finding yourself liable for their medical bills.

If you are ever in a position to hire a professional crew, be sure that they are either IATSI or a crew that carries workman's comp, and/or liability insurance. This will protect you, the venue and the employees of the crew, in case shit does accidentally go bad.

[eagan]

Oh, man. Good point there, Bob. I know that in any of the "bar band loadout with extra volunteer help" situations I've ever seen, nobody involved (including me) probably ever even gave a thought to "what happens if somebody gets hurt here?".

Or, for that matter (going back to "hey, it's on wheels, just give it a good shove toward those guys over there and they'll field it"), somebody bouncing a rolling Ultimate Behemoth rack case off some car sitting nearby. (Fortunately I've never experienced THAT one, although I seem to recall at least a couple scary moments where it would have gotten ugly if not for some kind of heroic scrambling from somebody who saw what was happening.)


JLE

[Dr. Bob]

Oh, man. Good point there, Bob. I know that in any of the "bar band loadout with extra volunteer help" situations I've ever seen, nobody involved (including me) probably ever even gave a thought to "what happens if somebody gets hurt here?".

JLE

Yeah man... I was talking to some guys in a local crew... Guys get hurt all the time, in all kinds of crews... riggers to box pushers...

Usually it's some minor shit like splinters, pulled muscles and the like. One guy ended up getting hurt pretty bad. Not like a broken bone bad, but strained back bad. The crew's insurance picked up the tab, thankfully. Another guy got a pretty bad laceration... company insurance picked it up too! IIRC, both incidents happened on the out... when you're already tired and sleep depraived... (errrr... deprived)

As much money as your typical band makes on your typical Saturday night bar gig, you don't want to be working for the next 5 years paying for some punter's Dr bills! It's bad enough if a bandmate get's hurt... you just don't need to compound it by adding the risk factor of a complete stranger getting hurt.

[pounce]

i have no doubt many accidents happen on the out as a result of tiredness and wanting to get out of there quickly.

i know of some pretty bad accidents, which while pretty rare do scare me. when david bowie came to our venue, it was the day after a spotlight operator fell and died. weird mood for the crew that day. it was a silly and preventable accident, too, like most of them.

i've had my fingers get "bit" by little things, that's the worst that's happened to me personally. safety really is paramount. i think that especially when electricity and heights are involved. a one day rock show isn't worth dying over.

[Dr. Bob]

I've run over my own toes with boxes, cut fingers, strained everything from my buttcheeks to my brain... but the worst is when you do the "bonehead" and step on yer' own "winky", all of which, as you said, are silly preventable accidents.

But all joking aside, safety has to be paramount!! When you're tired especially. I've kinda' had this beat into my head... when in doubt, get help.

If you're tired and something takes two to lift... get four. The band is comprised of X members... X-1=no gig.

[Statick]

If you're a drummer, please go buy or make a freaking coffin with wheels to put your hardware in - that oversized duffle bag sucks.

hey !

my oversized duffle back rocks

it's known as "the empty bag" and i'm the only person in the band prepared to carry it unassissted (which i do do, for each load in and load out, i carry this bag myself)

ITS SO FREAKING HEAVY I LOVE IT !

[bobzilla77]

Wasn't there, but heard from dudes in a Florida club about an incident involving those wacky Suicidal Tendencies guys.

ST were practically a gang in LA during the 80s, they & their followers were the scourge of the punk scene, violent assholes running amok. Enjoyed putting people in the hospital, the kind of crew that would cause you to split the party as soon as they showed up. Well known even back east as the wrong guys to fuck with.

After their gig at this club, a runaway anvil case on wheels fell off the ramp, onto the soundman's car, denting the hood pretty badly. It was ST's crew that let it happen, not the club's.

Soundguy says, well, I know a guy who could fix that up for me pretty cheap, why don't you give me $200 and we'll call it even. ST says, nah, fuck you man, we're leaving. What are you gonna do about it?

Soundguy pulls out a gun.

So, anarchist revolutionaries that they are, ST calls the cops. When they show up, Mike Muir goes up to them & says "That guy pulled a gun on me!"

Cop tells him, "In this county, he's allowed to do that. Now what's all this about?"

A short time later the soundguy had $300 in his pocket & drove away whistling. The extra $100 was for "asshole surcharge".

Old LA punk rockers hear that story and roll on the ground laughing. "Shit - why didn't WE think of that?"