Question For The Rock and Metal GTRists out there: Building kits

[MKZ]

Hey all,

I just had an old shitty Jackson V set up again, and to my surprise I loved the feel of it. I started entertaining the idea of my next few guitars being sort of "frankensteins" build and combined from different body/neck parts and hardware.

I really don't feel like buying another brand guitar anytime soon, I've got a nice Paul, a nice Strat and a UniverseUV777,with all of which I'm quite happy with.

So, my question is something along the lines of "how good of a guitar can I be expecting to put together?" or more importantly things like:
-Am I gonna save some money putting it together myself when compared to a similar (same wood, pickups, tuners) store bought brand guitar?
-What are some things to look out for?
-What, in your opinion, might be the biggest compromise when taking on a "project" like this?
-What are some good/reliable body and neck makers/dealers? (I found these guys a minute ago: http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Default.aspx )
-or anything else that comes to mind

To elaborate further, I think if I ever do this, the first one would be a basic bolt-on V-shape with one pickup, no tone control, one volume knob, or maybe just a kill-switch. No paint job. This is one of the reasons also why this topic came up... I like the look of original woods.... probably no finish, just some kind of an oil treatment. This one would be strictly for or mainly for metal.

Thanks

I know this doesn't have anything to do with recording, so sorry and shit, but I think there are some knowledgeable people lurking around here so...

[Damage, Inc.]

I've built myself a couple project guitars. They both came out pretty good, but I'm not sure if the time spent is worth the outcome. My first one was a mahogany explorer with EMGs, and that has been one of my main stage guitars since it was built. The fatness of the mahogany body complements the presence of the EMGs, and the tone is huge. The weight is huge, too!

My latest one is a Strat-style with a Duncan JB and Quarter Pound single-coils, and that one I'm still tweaking. I don't have it quite up to snuff yet.

All in all, I think your time might be better spent finding a damaged guitar on ebay and fixing it up, or just modifying an off-the-shelf model. The economies of scale weigh in here, as it is much easier and cheaper for a factory to make hundreds of guitars than it is for you to make one.

[Fulcrum]

I remember Volthause had a thread a while back regarding the build he did, but I can't remember whether it was here or at That Other Place Which We Do Not Name Lest Our Testicles Fall Off And We All Become Mezzo-Sopranos.

How about Stew Mac and Carvin for parts suppliers? Anybody got any thoughts about them?

This might have better been addressed in the Gear forum btw, but I guess this is still on topic for this forum, so I'll leave it be.

[Tim Halligan]

I remember Volthause had a thread a while back regarding the build he did, but I can't remember whether it was here or at That Other Place Which We Do Not Name Lest Our Testicles Fall Off And We All Become Mezzo-Sopranos.



From memory, Volt's project was based on Warmoth parts.


Cheers,
Tim

[MKZ]

Hey guys,

Dmge Inc,

Did you build your own from scratch? or buy the body and neck readily made?

I like the ebay idea, but I dont have the tools nor the patience to sand down the paint/finish... i want it to look really basic/stripped down..... I also dont want there to be any holes on the body that I have no use for (e.g. the neck pickup)

I'm just fascinated about the idea of buying these parts, taking them to a professional who slaps the motherfucker together.
(which Doesnt really cost anything considering)

Fulcrum,

Shit, you're right this shoulda been posted in the Gear forum... but yeah, it would be a guitar for metal, distorted rock...

Tim Vegemite,

I'm gonna try and find that Volts- thread


thanks

[iCombs]

Tim Vegemite

DAMMIT that's funny!

Just from the experience I've had with a few friends, Warmoth is a more than reputable parts supplier.

There's also Boogie Bodies (http://www.soundinstruments.com/build_your_own.htm), which is Lynn Ellsworth's stuff...and the stuff I've played from there is excellent as well.

[Tim Halligan]

I'm gonna try and find that Volts- thread





Here it is:

http://mars.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/6248/0/0/

Cheers,
Tim

[iCombs]

I'm just fascinated about the idea of buying these parts, taking them to a professional who slaps the motherfucker together.
(which Doesnt really cost anything considering)

You'd be surprised. I just recently saw a $150 pawnshop special turn into a $1000 pawn shop special just because of pickups/electronics, a new nut, a fret dressing, and a new set of tuners.

Almost half of that was labor. Not really super cheap in the long run.

The biggest reason I see for even custom assembling a guitar is that you can get EXACTLY what you want. To get a quality guitar, you're going to spend money. The only way to really save anything on the deal is to do the work you can do for yourself for yourself.

[Damage, Inc.]

Did you build your own from scratch? or buy the body and neck readily made?

No, I got both necks from Warmoth, both of them play very well. The explorer body is Warmoth, the Strat is Mighty Mite. I had someone else do most of the finishing, but I put a tung oil finish on the Strat neck myself. It's easy to do and very smooth.

[Dave Perry]

How about Stew Mac and Carvin for parts suppliers? Anybody got any thoughts about them?



Carvin's build quality is excellent but they don't offer a wide variety of bodies. The one thing you could get from them would be a very soild neck-through unit and then add body wings yourself. I'm not sure but my hunch is they would custom make the neck piece in various woods. Otherwise you'd be getting one of their bolt on necks that would probably only fit one of their bodies.

[G. Hoffman]

The best parts being made right now are USA Custom Guitars (http://www.usacustomguitars.com/). I would STRONGLY encourage you not to try an unfinished guitar. The guitar will not be stable, and you will have problems with it. The finish is there to protect the wood, and it is essential to the long term stability and durability of the guitar.



Gabriel

[eagan]

I haven't put anything together, but it might be worth mentioning that the most favorite Strat I ever played was in fact a custom assembled pseudo-strat made from Warmouth parts.

Oddly enough, the friend who owned it didn't really like it much. Go figure.


JLE

[otek]

The advantage of the non-professional home-builder is that you can put a tremendous amount of time into it, and if you know what you're doing, you can come up with a pretty good result.

It's probably not recommended unless you particularly enjoy the process of putting a guitar together. From a financial standpoint it makes absolutely no sense (if you convert the hours spent into wages, the guitar would be the most expensive in history).

I've been working with one of my fave luthiers for the past 15 years. There is nothing about a guitar I could do better than him (well, maybe as a player I can give him a run for the money).


otek

[eagan]

This stuff reminded me of something.

Years ago a group of us were hanging out taking a break from a rehearsal and a keyboard player was telling a story. Aside from being a regularly gigging local, he also was a union stagehand and regularly worked shows coming through town. This story was back around the beginning of the eighties.

He worked a Van Halen show at the local sports arena barn, and naturally, after his part in load in and setup, he had a bunch of time to kill, and he ended up hanging out in a dressing room with Ed the Van Halen. Being musicians, they just kind of hung out and bullshitted about the stuff you will, while EVH went about his business.

His business was this. He had his own little room, a typical "big show" room where somebody would have their own tuning and warmup space, but his was a tad different.

Around the room, crammed in there, were a bunch of road cases. In one case was a bunch of necks. In another was a bunch of bodies. In another were a lot of drawers and compartments with hardware, pickups, switches, pots, wire, jacks, and so on.

While these guys sat there and yapped, VH sat and worked away on a little table and put together a guitar, selecting this neck, that body, this pickup, and so on. Keyboard Player, after watching this a while, asked "man, do you do this EVERY NIGHT?". The answer was "yeah, not all the time, but, usually, pretty much". He put it all together, strung it up, set it up, set the intonation, did a final tune, strapped it on, and strode out to hit the stage.


JLE

[gonzo-x]

my USACG strat project

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/388/creammachinefq0.jpg



http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9643/pa0600012av.th.jpg
(full pic)


http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/6531/pa0600062oi.th.jpg
(headshot)


http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/7092/pa0600139va.th.jpg
(side headshot)


http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/5965/pa0600156hi.th.jpg
(jackplate)


http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/6319/pa0600161ix.th.jpg
(bill lawrence pickups, and the hipshot trem)


http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/4538/pa0600206cw.th.jpg
(backshot)


body: lightweight Alder 2-piece, with a contoured heel, routed for a 2-post
Hipshot trem, non locking, side jack, fall-away cut out on the back side of the bottom bout.

pickups: humbucker-single-single, Bill Lawrence L-500L and 2-280s (n & m)
Q filter for the L-500L wired to 'tone pot', and a master volume.

neck: hardrock maple neck, with a pau ferro fingerboard. 6150 frets, 1-5/8" nut width. small fender-style headstock
Gibson scale length neck, 22 frets, fingerboard radius, of 12". the shape of the neck is a thin "C" shape,
with a .78" neck thickness at the 1st fret, up to .85 at the 13th, mother of pearl dot inlays.

headstock: tiltback design, 13 degrees, graphtech nut.


neck-$246
body-$170
pickups-2x40 + 1x50=$130
Q filter- $20
bridge w/steel sustain block-$120 (luthier's price)
custom warmoth scratchplate-$35
odd hardware- $40
custom finish-$200
Sperzel tuners-$65
__________________
$1026

[eagan]

I don't know how it sounds and feels, but that's a perty geetar.


JLE

[otek]

my USACG strat project


Nice!

Who did the paint job?


otek

[G. Hoffman]

Nice!

Who did the paint job?


otek

From the price, I'd guess USA Custom Guitars - they do really nice finish work. They don't do nitro, but the work is top notch.

I like their work enough that when I was making myself a Strat last year, I used one of their necks. I finished it myself, but then I have the right equipment to do so.


Gabriel

[MKZ]

Hey all,

What are some alternative wood "conditioners" (?) instead of the typical glossy, sticky traditional finish?

for maple necks? Price difference/difficulty of application vs. normal finish?


For bodies, it depends largely on the wood type, but what are some choices? I usually don't care for looks but if I'm putting one together I definitely wanna know about some different choices... Don't want that glossy looking finish unless it's absolutely necessary for the "well being" of the body. I've always thought that kind of finish is not necessary but G. Hoffman probably knows way more about this than me, so who am I to say. And again, this varies from from wood type to wood type, right?

Also, a lot of you mentioned "time" as a factor. What would be the most time consuming part about something like this? Might seem like a weird question but, really, I just wanna know what exactly you guys are referring to.

[otek]

What are some alternative wood "conditioners" (?) instead of the typical glossy, sticky traditional finish?

Have Gabriel tell you about French polish. :Coolio:


otek

[eagan]

I'm paying attention here. On and off for probably 15 years I've kept toying with the idea of putting together something (and it keeps getting shelved as a low priority).

But I when I start pondering that I keep dwelling on a point of something where I'm seriously ignorant.

I'm not very fond of heavy slathered on laquered finishes. One thing I've always been set on in my thinking about this stuff is that I would want to have the final article finished as close to bare wood as possible, just a minimum needed to protect the wood. Now might be a good time for me to learn something about what can be done i this area.


JLE

[gonzo-x]

in the case of my FIRST version of the cream strat (i had a flood this summer, that ruined the finish on this guitar, i had USACG build me another one, and they farmed the paint job out of house, it's a super thin nitro finish, that is more vintage white than this cream colored one)

--i had a local luthier do the custom paint for me,
again,
super thin nitro, it's whisper thin, didn't change the character of the alder wood sound at all.

the finish on the neck, is a thin wipe on poly.

my whole idea about building guitars is that the finish should only protect, and not change, the vibration characteristics at all, which you can clearly hear when taking several similar guitar parts from different manufacturers and methods, and comparing the 'tone' of each piece, which me and the luthier did, spent quite a lot of time comparing what sounded like what, and why.....


Suhr believes that the hard rock holy grail is a combo of basswood body, with quilt maple top....
the thickness is the key, and that's what's up for argument....

and that the pau ferro for fingerboard, gives the best qualities of rosewood and ebony, all in one nice looking, feeling and sounding fingerboard material...

[gonzo-x]

also:
i'm of the opinion, that the neck build and quality, account for at least 50% of the sound of the guitar (acoustically) and that a large percentage of THAT, translates into amplified sound.

imho

[MrYankoff]

i just did my first guitar work (strat/maple neck, frets were jagged, so i sanded em down and ended up doing some "logo alteration" in the end :Coolio: ), and i used tru oil gun stock finish for the finish... man, it was so fast and easy to apply. apply a coat with a paper towel, wait 24 hours, smooth with 0000 steel wool and you're done (if you like). i chose to add a second coat, being as i had no idea what the hell i was doing, but i think one coat might have been enough. anyways the neck feels fast and smooth... tru oil is highly recommended.

oh, and as for the logo alteration.... (this was before i finally sanded it down):D

[MKZ]

thanks for the tip on the oil.

but why the fuck would you wanna put "gibson" on a thing that's not a gibson? why not "yankoff" instead.

[G. Hoffman]

The only thing which will protect a guitars neck properly is a hard finish - period. People have tried all sorts of stuff, but the only thing that really works is a hard film finish (Lacquer, Polyurethane, etc.). I don't much like French Polish, but that is just because it is a lost art - at least in terms of guitars. I have never seen a new French Polished guitar that looked good to me.

The thing you CAN do is a satin finish. On a lot of my guitars, instead of polishing the necks (by wet sanding to 1000 grit, and then polishing with my buffer wheel), I wet sand it to 320, and then hit it with OOOO steel wool. It works great, and feels great. Eventually, your hands will polish it out a bit, but I've never found that to feel the way a polished neck feels. But if you don't have a hard finish, the guitar won't be stable.


Gabriel

[MKZ]

Thanks G

How about bodies? Same thing, if I don't want the shiny hard finish look?

[otek]

I don't much like French Polish, but that is just because it is a lost art - at least in terms of guitars. I have never seen a new French Polished guitar that looked good to me.

You should see what a good friend of mine is up to.... :Coolio:

Just to clarify, I know French polish doesn't protect a guitar like a hard finish, I merely mentioned it since the question was about "alternative finishes" .


otek



PS. Gabriel.... checked your PM's lately?

[G. Hoffman]

Thanks G

How about bodies? Same thing, if I don't want the shiny hard finish look?



Yeah, though the place where your arm rests will still get shinny eventually.


Gabriel

[MKZ]

anyone have any experience with walnut bodies with seymor duncan LP type humbuckers ?

Weight comparison with basswood?
-Heavier, but by about how much?


Brightness comparison with basswood?
-Brighter, but how would you describe the difference?

[G. Hoffman]

anyone have any experience with walnut bodies with seymor duncan LP type humbuckers ?

Weight comparison with basswood?
-Heavier, but by about how much?


Brightness comparison with basswood?
-Brighter, but how would you describe the difference?


I haven't actually made a walnut body, but my first impression is "OH! My poor back!"


It'll be heavy.



Gabriel

[MKZ]

ok. fuck the heaviness vs. lightness debate.... although the lighter the better as far as my back goes...

but, how about neck/body combinations for:

a.) sustain
b.) attack
c.) sustain and attack (best of both worlds)
d.) anything else worth knowing.

also, I will NEVER put active pickups on a guitar, so as far as I'm concerned that shit out of the question. thanks.

[G. Hoffman]

ok. fuck the heaviness vs. lightness debate.... although the lighter the better as far as my back goes...

but, how about neck/body combinations for:

a.) sustain
b.) attack
c.) sustain and attack (best of both worlds)
d.) anything else worth knowing.

also, I will NEVER put active pickups on a guitar, so as far as I'm concerned that shit out of the question. thanks.


The biggest thing for sustain is the fit of the neck. If it fits tightly in the pocket, it's good.

Swamp ash body, maple neck (for the best of both worlds thing). It's perfect, as far as I'm concerned. And the Swamp ash isn't too heavy. I like rosewood fingerboards, but ebony and maple are both fine too, though maple fingerboards will cost more to maintain in the long run (because they need to be finished).

Oh, and I'm quite fond of stainless steel frets, right now. They last forever, and they feel really nice (a little smoother when you're bending.


Gabriel