Do we really need to gate drums

[lebouche]

Cos I havent been doing it much...

I know its synonomous with the 80's but also dont really get why its so useful...as soon as the gate opens it lets through the other sounds with it which changes the level of whatever else it is picking up.
Guidence anyone?
Thanks

[Brendo]

Turn on everything, if you hear anything bad that could be fixed with a gate, then gate.

[Brendo]

Oh, and it's not just an 80s thing, youre thinking of gated reverb.

[lebouche]

Turn on everything, if you hear anything bad that could be fixed with a gate, then gate.

Guess I'm missing the point, like I suppose you could take the kick out o the snare if its not happening at the same time...just dont understand why anything would be 'bad'.
thanks

[lebouche]

Maybe this should be more like why exactly do you gate....

[Tim Halligan]

Just because a gate can attenuate a signal by 50, 60, 70, or even 80 dB, doesn't mean that you should attenuate a signal by that much.

Perhaps 6 dB is sufficient.

Try a gentle gate on the toms to clean up the ringing that occurs while the guy is just playing time...as opposed to fills.

Far less brutal than "strip silence" style gating, in that you don't completely lose the "glue" factor...


Cheers,
Tim

[lebouche]

Thank you Tim,
I do often use gates on Toms but I kinda took that for granted. I'm just wondering why it would be used on snare or other parts I suppose. Maybe for the same reason if you use a snare with the wires open.

[Comte de St Germain]

Tim makes THE good point. Personally I track with the whole kit of parts in mind but sometimes (not always) I find that compression pulls out more hash than was intended and I adjust lightly on toms and kick mics. That said, I do sometimes mangle a second snare track to get some push and none of the hash. Much like a sample would be used.

[lebouche]

Tim makes THE good point. Personally I track with the whole kit of parts in mind but sometimes (not always) I find that compression pulls out more hash than was intended and I adjust lightly on toms and kick mics. That said, I do sometimes mangle a second snare track to get some push and none of the hash. Much like a sample would be used.

No shit! You gate while you track??

[Fulcrum]

I don't gate drums while I'm tracking, but I might during the mix if I thought any of the drums were taking up a little too much space or masking some other element by virtue of a long decay. For example, if I can shorten the decay so that maybe the bass guitar pokes its head through a little more I might not have to EQ the bass so much.

[LiYing]

IMO,if the result is good that used the gate, I will use it .

the first,I gate the drum for change the sound color,the second is control the dynamic.

[jord]

Gating for me all depends on the overall tone of the song. There have been times where gating would totally destroy the mood of the song, so I would mix with full bleed on the drums. Other times, if I need something like the snare to pop out without anything else, I will apply a gate.

No one says you have to apply a gate. If it doesn't fit the song, don't do it.

jord

[LiYing]

Gating for me all depends on the overall tone of the song. There have been times where gating would totally destroy the mood of the song, so I would mix with full bleed on the drums. Other times, if I need something like the snare to pop out without anything else, I will apply a gate.

No one says you have to apply a gate. If it doesn't fit the song, don't do it.

jord

Angree with you, I think you are right.

[Brendo]

Basically im saying throw all the faders up and if anything sucks, fix it.

[Comte de St Germain]

No shit! You gate while you track??

That wasn't the intention of my post but I have and will. Keep in mind that this is not for everyone and is only in small doses when prescribed.

Gating IMNSHO is one area that ITB has improved upon analog topology. Lookahead and lack of grainyness come to mind.

I'm anxiously awaiting a time when i can get into the Sonalksis gate. It looks like a great tool that currently has no peers.

[juergen]

Just like with compression, eq, or anything that you could use to process sound, it depends squarely on what you think a particular track needs, or how you'd like the track to sound. Ergo "if anything sounds bad" would stand for "if anything sounds out of order to you."

For ex. sometimes I'll get drums that were recorded in a small but very resonant room, where the OH mics are already picking up a whole lot of the whole kit and a whole lotta room, and where having tom mics open just smears everything too much.

Or, the snare sample cousin trick Comte mentioned - i use that quite a bit with some styles where i just want a very compressed kick and/or snare to really peek through - without all the extra info.

If you feel you need to control given tracks in order to achieve something you know the song would benefit from, then do it!

[lebouche]

IMO,if the result is good that used the gate, I will use it .

the first,I gate the drum for change the sound color,the second is control the dynamic.
Thats what I was wondering...what the exact uses were apart from Toms...and making snares sound 80's
Thanks to you all:)

[LiYing]

Thats what I was wondering...what the exact uses were apart from Toms...and making snares sound 80's
Thanks to you all:)

en...

Sorry I don't know how miking the 80's snare. I just use the gate in the mixing.

I will use the gate to cut the snare's "sound head". I set the attack in 30~50MS,REL about 180MS or adjust in you ears.

Please see this picture:

http://album.sina.com.cn/pic_3/49ec467b02000ivr

maybe this easy and nothing for you.

Sorry, I just a newbie.

[Jason Phair]

Remember also...gating isn't ALWAYS just used to get rid of the extraneous bullshit the mic is picking up. Sometimes it's to change the tone of the drum it's picking up. I think someone mentioned smacking the front end off a snare...you can do the same with the back end, though it's more common on kick and toms. You can sometimes really put a point on the front end by doing that.

Also, it's useful for when you're using sample replacement, to make sure you get clean triggers.

[Jason Phair]

I totally agree with the Comte about ITB gates. They're incredibly more useful (though one can say you need them less, since you can manually chop out the bullshit between hits).


I actually find myself doing a lot of serial gating. I can use one with a certain attack/release/reduction amount to get rid of a bunchashit in the middle without fucking up the wave on the hit too badly. Then I can use another to get surgical and shape the wave however I want to.


I'm a big fan.

[Comte de St Germain]

I've also created many staccato guitar parts with gates triggering off of drums. Want to tighten that guitar to the tom roll into the chorus? Key the guitar gate to the tom bus.

[Mixerpuppet]

The basic question is so open ended...

What gate?
What Genre?
What room?
What drums?
Does this mean cymbals?
Bandaid or Flavor?

:)


Since everyone is into dna length plug-in chains and over processing every snippet I've headed in the minimal effort realm...

I'll let ya know when it doesn't suck...

[lebouche]

The basic question is so open ended...

What gate?
What Genre?
What room?
What drums?
Does this mean cymbals?
Bandaid or Flavor?


So the basic original question is answered....
Q Do we really need to gate drums
A No it can be used to fix or flavour.

or to fit a sound to a genre,
or because a room may be to live?
Or because the you dont like the sound of the kit...
OR....."Does this mean cymbals" not quite with you on this one.
When would you gate cymbals? I assume you mean overheads....
Thanks

[PRobb]

This is an example of a type of thread I don't get. The question should be when and why do people gate drums? The answer is always going to be "it depends". What kind of sound do you want? If gates make it better, use 'em. If loose gates sound better than tight gates, use loose gates. But this is always going to be a song by song decision.

It's like asking do we really need hammers. A gate is a tool. There are times when they're appropriate and times when they aren't.

[lebouche]

This is an example of a type of thread I don't get. The question should be when and why do people gate drums? The answer is always going to be "it depends". What kind of sound do you want? If gates make it better, use 'em. If loose gates sound better than tight gates, use loose gates. But this is always going to be a song by song decision.

It's like asking do we really need hammers. A gate is a tool. There are times when they're appropriate and times when they aren't.
Well I'm just trying to gauge its other applications as I have'nt really been using it much as a tool.
EG I have never used gates on overheads and cant imagine a reason too as I'm trying to get a picture of the whole kit.
Feel free not to reply to one of my threads if you dont like em:Razz: I'm ill at home today with little else to do but press you guys for knowledge

[lebouche]

I've also created many staccato guitar parts with gates triggering off of drums. Want to tighten that guitar to the tom roll into the chorus? Key the guitar gate to the tom bus.

Thats a very cool little tip ,,,,even if I asked a vague question.
Thanks:grin:

[Mixerpuppet]

When would you gate cymbals? I assume you mean overheads....
Thanks

Possibly...

But in close miking situation you may want a gate to control cymbal decay and to duck under other things happening in a mix.

You may also be using the gate as a trigger on something else as Comte mentioned...

You mention tools...

Before you start carving stuff with gates you need to form an idea in your head of what you want to hear... if you've never used a gate for an application, there is no time like the present.

Experimentation is how you hone your skills at using new tools...

[Comte de St Germain]

I really want to expolre this one:

http://www.sonalksis.com/images/essentials/mk2/sv719-full.jpg

[Cheech]

I have nto had much luck with gates personaly. I can never get it to sounds natural, so i go in to radar, and manualy do gain fades on toms generaly dropping about 10 - 15 db inbetween the hits. It usually cleans up the drums nicely. For me anyways.

I sometimes will do that to the bottom snare mic also. Depending on what kind of mayhem its causing being left to ring as it pleases.

[otek]

I sometimes will do that to the bottom snare mic also. Depending on what kind of mayhem its causing being left to ring as it pleases.

I actually almost never gate the bottom snare mic these days, I kinda like that "frazz" sound whenever a tom or a kick is struck - it gives a bit of liveness to the kit.

I also find it cool to use delayed tracks to key the gate. Once when mixing a song that had distorted guitars playing offbeats, I copied the kick and moved the copy exactly one 8th note later on the grid. Then I keyed the guitars with the delayed kick, setting the hold time to a constant that felt good with the tempo, and a fairly fast decay. That way, every discrepancy of the kick timing is echoed in the offbeat guitar, and the feel is better.