Peavey 6505. Like it? 'Cause I think it sounds shit...

[Mo Facta]

I dunno. I hear a lot of metal guitarists worshipping this amp and even though I have one, I really am yet to get a satisfying sound out of it, even for heavier tones. I find it stout and boxy overall despite the EQ and the presence/resonance knob being quite effective. It's like the inherant tone is just crap. Even my Laney GH100L sounds better to me.

My main guitar is a Gibson SG standard (This one is a gem and I got lucky. I know no SG sounds the same as I've owned more than one but this one really cooks) so the guitar isn't the problem.

Maybe it's the cab, which is the matching 6505 4x12. I think it's loaded with those Peavey Sheffield speakers but they fall vastly short of even Celestions. The tone of the amp is vastly improved when coupled to a Marshall cab, though.

Anybody have a 6505 and know anything further about them that I may be missing? Maybe I should change the tubes?

Cheers :)

[touji-za-nai]

I had a peavey 6505+ before I sold it for a JCM 800.


I could get an OK tone out of it at low volumes, but whenever I cranked the thing, it became very icey and fuzzy sounding.

The tone is too overly compressed sounding to me, very distant and dead sounding.. I think the reason it's worshiped the way it is, is because the majority of the people worshiping the thing are young metal-core enthusiests (which is all the amp is good for now-a-days)

[Cary Chilton]

Mo, then DON'T buy a Soldano! ;) The 6505+ is a little more Marshall sounding than a 6505 .... and historically 5150 II and 5150 are true original equivalents to these current prod. amps. Name change, to appease EVH and avoid litigation.


That said, I had a 5150 combo and it was ok,.. no actually I loved it for 3 months. Made my guitar very easy to play (using rhy channel gain (drive) at 7 was enough! The lead channel had stupid amounts of saturation and compression. The I got unhappy with it, sounded to noisy, bloated, amateur. Then I met Mark Stephenson -makes his won stuff now, and modded it to sound more like a jcm800 and the results were killer! Still the thing weighed a VERY awkward 85 pounds! Not easy to lug around daily. After 1 year I ended up selling it. In hindsight, I would the combo sounded similar to a Mesa II+C.

Mo, this may or not interest u:


Anway, I decided to buy a Marshall SLP 1959 RI, Marshall PowerBrake and I got lucky on a free 4x12 jcm800 Marshall cab. I found it easily 1000% percent harder to play pretty much anything. I hated it. I thought someone thing was wrong. There was zero sustain, seemed to have VERY little drive in comparison. In reality, compared to my 5150 combo and previous Fender, EQ/Dist pedal type rig, the Marshall did have less "gain and sustain." Then I bought a Boss OD-3 since its HFP inherent in the circuit was set lower than other OD pedals I knew about. However, the result was similar to the 5150 combo, but a ballsier version with less noise and fizz, and with smoother mids....come to think of it, it was Joe Satriani 's Crystal Planet album tone -nailed. I loved that for about 2 years.

However after it bothered me that my AMP alone could not get that Satriani or the level of drive and great quality of sounds.

Conclusion on that, after having that amp totally hand built by Mark Stephenson using modern and vintage Sozo mustard, an OEI Output Trany ( can't buy anymore) and various cool mods (split/shared cathode and others, sourced the perfect combo/brand of tubes................ ??? Well, a classic 12 series Marshall with 3 pre amp tubes (one for phase inverting of course) will NEVER get that level of saturation/sustain ratios of previous rigs and most amps out there. I had gone through this tone chasing journey from the stock Marshall 1959RI/power brake/boss OD-3 rig because I wanted more dynamics, more raw power, "purity in the note" as I used to call it, that classic voicing in early Jimi, VH, Page, Clapton etc that just came through mix recorded or live so well. The early Vox heads and the early Marshalls cut through the best of any amp out there for rock. I was definitely after the Marshall tones!

That was another obsession: finding that voicing or amp character that sounds through even if it quieter that everything else.
Oh yeah I should say even with my 5150 combo modded ( huge improvement) some old bandmates ALWAYS complained that I was too loud, but I always seem to be washed out in the mix of things.

Solution?

Vintage 12 series split cathode cuts through the best, esp on single notes, shared cathode is a sweeter warmer version, still very good. I am happy to be quieter than everyone, yet anyone listening can easily everything I am doing.
A decent clean boost, EQ pedal or both, and even a hotter PASSIVE pickup will preserve that organic, true amp tone and give you just a bit more. Why is this important at all? It might be important to lead rock guitarists who want more saturation and compression, but just enough to do the job. With this type of rig ( also moderate gain 12ax7s in the amp) you still have to play very very hard, think shreddin on an acoustic -nearly that hard, but the tone pay off is worth it. Another thing that is worth it, is watching fellow rock guitarists scratch their heads when they play through your rig and they can't play shit! hehe

Of course, you are playing blues or Jazz, you don't need that extra saturation/compression from an EQ or boost pedal -so stock amp itself is just fine enough -plug and play. If your a rhy guitarist for any band ....*other than speed, death metal or the like, the amp itself would be just fine, too. Palm muting ain't gonna happen on a 12 series, not to metal form anyway...

Lastly, of course introducing a distortion pedal or OD box brings back to Satriani tones or SRV tones or fuzzes to early Page, Jimi etc. Also, certain booteek top dawg OD's are made for and sound best with single coils or p90's and others with humbuckers. Blending the 12 series inherent crunchy drive with the OD pedal's drive and level is a little tricky. Careful Gain Staging with a couple pedals, boost or eq and an OD pedal and to the crunchy amp can produce a very natural, warm saturated sound while still cutting through. Even easier, this pedal chain into the 12 series clean -at least, little to no perceivable gain. I think that was Joe Satriani's live-type rig -pedal based gain through a great amp in his more memorable early tones ( Live San Fran etc). However, if all your dirt comes from pedals, despite gain staging properly and setting the amps EQ controls just right, it will never have the dynamics and cut through as to just use a clean boost or EQ pedal.

True metal players are best to again buy an tube amp that has at least 4 12ax7's ( one for PI) or more. Select the drive settings on the rhy channel and then use a clean boost or EQ for more gain or sustain. This approach, even though it will only use a FRACTION of the stupid amount of saturation that high gain amps are capable of producing, IT will be enough for the job, but not too much. Most importantly, its tone, voicing and type saturation will have that metal sound. If saturation is dialled even one numbered amt higher, for easier playing you risk being buried in the mix and having little to no dynamics. When people realize that their whole sound is faulty (they are buried in the mix) they will become increasing unhappy. Metal tones, EMG's or the recent booteek guys motorcity pu's or WCR pu's or seymour dimarzio have passives out that are 19 -22K!! As much as an active pu. Passives in general will always sound slightly fatter in the mid and less sharp compared to EMG's.

[Mitch Deason]

I've got a 5150 I bought for recording a specific metal tune. Havent had much luck with it for much else. Usually seems to have a fizzy top. My cab is a Marshall 1960.
For my next amp I think I want some sort of plexi-ish, greasy, EL type of thing.

[Zoesch]

So far it seems it's sounding the way it should... the Peavey 6505+ is a great amp, but it's a one trick pony, heavy distorted chords and middy solos is what it does best.

That said, it's an amp that's best used layered with something else a tad less mid-range heavy.

[Damage, Inc.]

Peavey, like Mesa, biases very cold. You can get a far better tone from the 6505/5150 by taking it to an amp tech familiar with that model and asking for a hotter bias. It will shorten the life of your tubes a bit, but the tone will really wake up. If I had unlimited funds (and a roadie), I would probably make a multi-head rig by pairing the 5150 with an Uberschall or Mark IV. I think the 6505 is a great bang for the buck.

[Cary Chilton]

Every amp does what it does. Every brand has its own sound present in most all of its models. Mesa, Fender, MArshall, Bogner, Soldano, Koment, Divide 13, Vox and of course Peavey. THat is why ppl buy a particular make of an amp, for its sound.

Any amps that claim to do it all usually aren't worth their salt... people wanting to find an amp for many different sounds, would be better off to find a POD over their amps or digitech's GNX4, Rolands stuff, better still. That said, even the best, Axe Fx will sound sterile and boring in trying match to the sounds of a real one trick pony overdriven tube amp.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ;)

[Zoesch]

Peavey, like Mesa, biases very cold. You can get a far better tone from the 6505/5150 by taking it to an amp tech familiar with that model and asking for a hotter bias. It will shorten the life of your tubes a bit, but the tone will really wake up. If I had unlimited funds (and a roadie), I would probably make a multi-head rig by pairing the 5150 with an Uberschall or Mark IV. I think the 6505 is a great bang for the buck.

Personally I prefer to pair rather than change the bias myself, specially with a Framus or an Egnater if I want that thick pounding metalcore tone...

[lambro]

I have got incredible metal/hard rock sounds playing through non-master volume heads by using just a few pedals

I have always played around this idea, so I have my lead sound and when I hit the pedal off, its just a loud high headroom tube amp clean tone

for me that works fine, and for metal well the pedal stays on

Cary made a point about 4 pre amp tube designs for metal, and for amps out of the box that go there, I would say yes, owned quite a few and virtually all had this design.

The Guytron GT-100 is worth checking out, also the Bogner Shiva with 34's was memorable.

For metal, I'll grab my V or Leas Paul, use a Mad Professor Mighty Red distortion into a high headroom cleanish tube amp and I'm done, on to playing, if you can open up a 1987x that happens to catch fire all the better, might not even need a pedal, depends on the amp, but those amps are 1 trick ponies at the volume level need for them to turn the corner, which might not always be the best tool for the situation

Al lot can come from the recording process too, the saturation in today's amps can be unnecessarily overdone as well. Using as little gain and saturation as possible usually gives the biggest recorded sound.

[Saculus]

I have a 5150 and the matching cab never really cuts it. The slant cab sounds almost brittle and shrill.

I've been trying to get mine to sound "right" for two years and I'm making headway for my personal taste.

Current setup.
Schecter Devil Custom (EMG 81B 85N) Set neck heavy as shit Mahogany.
Boss Tuner
TS9
Phase 90
HardWire Delay
Aphex Exciter Guitar (mainly for lows with a small touch of highs)

High Gain input
Green Pre Gain 2.5 or lower
Red Pre Gain 5.5
Low 6-7
Mid 2 - 3.5 (see TS info below)
High 6-7
Green post 5-6
Red Post 2.5-3.5
Resonance 5-7
Presence 5-7
Effects loop
MXR Gate
HardWire Reverb

You can try an EQ after the noisegate in the effects loop.

Many people believe to get the best out of it is to use the green channel with the crunch button down. Really turning it into a distortion only amp. Giving you better lower mids and a tad less FIZZ. Possibly a good recording option

Gain past 6 is pretty much useless on the Red Channel as far as I can tell.

Try using a tube screamer as a filter starting with the tone and level around noon and the drive around nine o'clock which is a trick from the Andy Sneap forum which is the first place I saw it. The TS will be your HP filter and your low and resonance will be slightly less effective but you can use them to define the lower mids better at least in theory. Don't be surprised if you have to kiddie curve your tone stack with this set up with mids under 3.5 .

It is a metal core amp of choice so maybe a Recto is more your thing. The other guitarist in my band is using one and the 5150 has volume but not fullness. Mesa + Marshall 1960B vs. 5150 + 5150 slant cab. My leads do cut through better however. The 5150 is a Mids heavy amp so the scooped sound is not its bread and butter.

Before buying another amp you might want to try out different cabs, like a Mesa Oversized traditional, Marshall 1960B, Orange with V30s.

It also depends on what you are going for. A Dimebag kinda sound is much easier to pull from a Randall than a Peavey and there are good solid state amps used in metal. Mainly Randall and Laney. Hell a Tiny Terror or Krank Rev Jr. might get you what you want faster than a 5150.

Locally there are two 5150 heads and a 6505+ under $700 and two combos under $600 on craigslist so selling might be tough if you want a grand.

If you are double or quad tracking pull the gain back or its wall of fizz. The blended suggestion previous is probably your best bet in a recording situation.

Good luck tone chasing.

[Mo Facta]

Thanks guys! I totally forgot about this thread. Sorry. This forum seems to be in the basement. Typical that they would shove us down here!

Anyways, first Cary, thanks for the insight. You seem to have extensive knowledge and experience in the eternal hunt for better tone. I'll have to print that shit out and go over it again. Your mod stories are very interesting. Heh heh.

Saculus, I agree with you. I have the slanted cab too and it does sound flat and brittle. I really think it's a sub-standard cab overall. It's also very heavy. I find the heavier the cab, the worse it sounds. This brings me to something I realised when reloading an early 70's Marshall 4x12 and a 1969 Laney Lead 100 4x12 (the ones that came loaded with Goodmans P12 25's) recently.

It is of my opinion that Marshall just got the 4x12 design right the first time. Something I noticed when I opened up the two cabs (and I've noticed this on most Marshall 4x12's) is that the Marshall, although the front, top, bottom, and sides are made from plywood (baltic birch, I'm assuming) the rear baffle is made of particle board.

Now, I heard in my travels that particle board - I'm assuming because it isn't as rigid as plywood - resonates better than plywood (I think this is why Jim Marshall suggests miking the rear of the cabinet too, and flipping the phase). So, what I decided to do was to load the greenbacks that were in the Marshall into the Laney 4x12 and hear the difference. Now, the Laney had a huge center support beam, a heavy plywood rear baffle, and a further plank of plywood about 6 inches wide glued to the back of the rear baffle. For what reason I couldn't figure out, but after much effort, still couldn't get it off. So anyway, I finally got the speakers loaded into the Laney and lo and behold, it sounded nowhere near as good as when they were in the Marshall.

I really think this has something to do with the rear baffle being made of particle board and is for the most part unhindered and therefore more conducive to low-end resonance.

Anyway, my current favored rig at the moment is simple:

Gibson SG Standard
Laney GH100L
1973 Marshall 4x12 loaded with Greenbacks
No pedals

Currently I also have the Peavey 6505, a Mesa Triple Rectumfrier, and two other Marshall 4x12s (an 80's era JCM 800 and a 90's 1960 model, all slanted). For what I'm playing right now, the Laney kills them all in my opinion. As far as the Peavey and Mesa go, they're both very expensive one-trick-ponies and I only use them for recording.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback guys!

Cheers :)

[Tommy Fobia]

I have a love/hate relationship with 5150s... I talked at it at length in another thread a little while back.

Yeah, basically. The cold power section is responsible for the ratty high end. Completely ridiculous idea, considering 5150s are reliant on power section involvement. I have NO IDEA why peavey set things up this way. It makes NO SENSE AT ALL, considering what is possible with a 5150 once you run the power section at a healthy tolerance for the tubes.

Hey Slippy, I have a couple of marshall straight cabs, one with V30s and one with G12t-75, neither of which I particularly like with 5150s. The V30s beaming just leads to the exaggeration of its spiky top end and G12t-75s sound nasal to me.

I have had most luck with cabs loaded with either G12H-100s or G12K-100s. Infact my old peavey cab now has a quad of the 'Ks in it which vastly improves things in my opinion.

Also it may be worth considering a few things regarding the power section of the amp.

Considering that 5150s tend to be reliant on considerable power section involvement, to sound vaguely 'normal', it makes absolutely no sense what so ever to have the tubes running so damn COLD - which is what peavey do when they calibrate the bias from factory to run at around 14/18ma.

Last time I checked, the plate voltage is around 500v so each 6l6GC should be pushing at least 34/36ma to avoid crossover distortion and the other nasty artifacts associated with a cold bias.

SO I changed the bias resistor in one of my MKIIs - allowing me to run the power section at around 36ma. Running the power-amp within the tolerances for which the tubes were designed, smoothed out the disjointed mess of distortion considerably.

I have the same gripe with mesa. Rectos tend to come out of the factory boasting a whopping 7ma on each 6l6.


Also, I find it really helps to get power-amp involvement a hell of a lot earlier by pulling out a pair of power tubes (outer pair or inner pair). Set the impedance switch on the back of the amp to half of the value of the cab. Eg. switch the amp to 8 ohm if using a 16 ohm cab.

See if it works for you anyway. I have a love hate relationship with 5150s. I always end up coming back to them after toying with various boutique/high end amps for a while.

Anyway - I hope that gives you something to mull over. :)


The EQ stack is appalling - 'nuff said. I tend to set the amps EQ so it sounds 'least bad', and then tweak the graphic in the loop.

I own a few Marshall/Peavey cabs and various other cabs with a variety of speakers and one that I really like is my g12K cab and the Orange PPC 4x12 - which is the ONLY v30 cab I've used which doesn't sound shrill with a 5150.

[Cary Chilton]

if you want, I can email the guy who modded my 5150 combo and ask him if he remembers the mods and possible parts. If he does, you could then buy the parts from say Sozo, and tech you amp to a tech and have it modded the same. Warning, the mod will sound and play more like a decent Marshall, which also means if you are a gainiac of sorts, you will struggle with the drop of sustain and saturation. It will have little to no fizz, be much warmer, less tinny, but less drive/sustain. This kind of mod makes a shredder an honest player, working for those notes, diggin' in, unlike the masses of POD freaks etc who think they're Gods on youtube. LOL I had one guy try to tear me one, commenting on my youtube picking tutorial -calling me a simple player, that I should shut up etc... I couldn't believe it because hardly played at all in the lesson, so wtf, right? Anyway, I checked his videos, I would be happy to post them here if you want!, any he is fukwit from UK (nothing against UK) playing a JEM guitar and some POD or Line6 shit so wet with effects and drive, I couldn't fucking hear a note! What a WANK! I wish these types of fukwits would play through my rig.

[Zoesch]

Interesting... buy a Peavey to make it sound like a Marshall...

Maybe we need to introduce the novel concept of actually buying a Marshall if that's the sound you're after?

[Cary Chilton]

Interesting... buy a Peavey to make it sound like a Marshall...

Maybe we need to introduce the novel concept of actually buying a Marshall if that's the sound you're after?

Zoesch, do you patronize everyone? Maybe your a fun guy in person, but on the boards you sure come across like a douche. just sayin...
:doubledeuce: :D

If Greg has a 5150 already, a simple inexpensive mod will improve his sound a lot. If he bought a 2203, he would probably need it modded anyway to get anywhere near the saturation levels the 5150 does even on the rhy channel. A decent 2203 would vintage, so that venture would cost double to triple the 5150+mod. ;) But you knew that already right?
Better yet, a vintage 12 series slaved into another JMP or NM 12series, with a 16Ohm, 300W resistor line box/ pot but that venture is about 6000 to 14000 usd depending whether or not you get fucked on a "vintage" sale. You could also learn to build, refine you circuit, tweak, source vintage components, select "iron" and make two, quite similar for about 4000 -not including 4x12 and what's in it...add another 1500 or so.

I am guessing you would just head to guitar center and rent a DSL for your clients killer guitar tones...or suggest amp farm or POD explaining to you client that it will sound the same in the mix, while keeping thing easier for yourself?

[Zoesch]

Zoesch, do you patronize everyone? Maybe your a fun guy in person, but on the boards you sure come across like a douche. just sayin...
:doubledeuce: :D

Oh no, in person I'm as fun as a knuckle sandwich to the ribcage... but that's cool, rather have that than come across as a complete Nimrod which I'm sure it's not just your online persona as no one can be that clever as to appear absolutely brain dead online and surprise you with their smarts in the real world.

If Greg has a 5150 already, a simple inexpensive mod will improve his sound a lot. If he bought a 2203, he would probably need it modded anyway to get anywhere near the saturation levels the 5150 does even on the rhy channel. A decent 2203 would vintage, so that venture would cost double to triple the 5150+mod. ;) But you knew that already right?

Which is the moment you sell the 5150 and get a different amp that gives you the sound you want, not a hard to grasp concept by any stretch of the imagination.

Better yet, a vintage 12 series slaved into another JMP or NM 12series, with a 16Ohm, 300W resistor line box/ pot but that venture is about 6000 to 14000 usd depending whether or not you get fucked on a "vintage" sale. You could also learn to build, refine you circuit, tweak, source vintage components, select "iron" and make two, quite similar for about 4000 -not including 4x12 and what's in it...add another 1500 or so.

And your problems started before you even get there, right in between the ears, in that part of the body responsible for dumb advice and even worse decisions that also feels really self confident when the word "vintage" comes across.

I am guessing you would just head to guitar center and rent a DSL for your clients killer guitar tones...or suggest amp farm or POD explaining to you client that it will sound the same in the mix, while keeping thing easier for yourself?

Well, for starters not all my clients are EVH wannabes so that leaves me with a different playing field here, which is to find them a tone that actually suits what they play in either a live or a mix context.

Now, for that I don't need a 12K "vintage" 5150 atrocity, that's what backline and rental companies were invented for.

If it's for myself, heck I'm past large 100W heads and driving a 4x12 for recording, you know the whole phasing thing is not as overrated as people make it be and I prefer things to sound good rather than stroking some nimrod's ego... after all they don't pay me to massage their egos, they pay me to make things sound good.

[Cary Chilton]

Now, for that I don't need a 12K "vintage" 5150 atrocity, that's what backline and rental companies were invented for.

If it's for myself, heck I'm past large 100W heads and driving a 4x12 for recording, you know the whole phasing thing is not as overrated as people make it be and I prefer things to sound good rather than stroking some nimrod's ego... after all they don't pay me to massage their egos, they pay me to make things sound good.

12K 5150 atrocity? What dumbass remark....
You are past 100 watt heads? Good for you. I am not, but I am past the extreme wattage. Anyway, stick to the skinflute and go do some pushups. :Coolio:

[Zoesch]

12K 5150 atrocity? What dumbass remark....
You are past 100 watt heads? Good for you. I am not, but I am past the extreme wattage. Anyway, stick to the skinflute and go do some pushups. :Coolio:

Trust me a 100W head and pretending to be manly by watching fake fighting can't compensate that genetic lack of testosterone in your nads.

[Cary Chilton]

Fake fighting? UFC, Pancrase, Strikeforce, Affliction, Pride all FAKE? LOL Dude your immaturity never ceases to amaze me. Now kindly fuck off. ;)

[Zoesch]

Fake fighting? UFC, Pancrase, Strikeforce, Affliction, Pride all FAKE? LOL Dude your immaturity never ceases to amaze me. Now kindly fuck off. ;)

Yeah well, see I would kindly fuck off but you can't resist spouting off more drivel setting yourself up for more... Loving the attention too much?

BTW I guess you probably only found out that Wrestling is fixed a few hours ago :lol:

[Cary Chilton]

wow, that only took a few minutes.... you are boring me man isn't past your bedtime?

[Zoesch]

wow, that only took a few minutes.... you are boring me man isn't past your bedtime?

Predictable... This is why I never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

[Cary Chilton]

You know it is funny that every time you wait until I sign out, then you add another douche post to make yourself feel better...

[Zoesch]

Like clockwork... :lol:

This is like an Abbott and Costello routine...

[Cary Chilton]

Hilarious, I was coming to say the same.... clearly you are "last word freak" ; so I am done. I won't post again, so have no fear, you can post, yet again, thereby getting the last word, ok? BTW clearly you don't know much about marshall amps and you shouldn't even stained this thread with meaningless BS.... just sayin'

[Zoesch]

Hilarious, I was coming to say the same.... clearly you are "last word freak" ; so I am done. I won't post again, so have no fear, you can post, yet again, thereby getting the last word, ok? BTW clearly you don't know much about marshall amps and you shouldn't even stained this thread with meaningless BS.... just sayin'

And you're certainly an expert in everybody's tones hence the continuous bad advice... I'll give you 2 hours before the ego trip kicks in and you feel compelled to reply again Costello :lol:

[greyskull]

I still got one.
Like most amps that i like. it does one thing and one thing very well.
Its pretty hard to get a bad heavy metal/ hard rock sound out of it. Add a tube screamer in front for the sound of modern metal.

However, i don't personally play that sort of stuff, so im using a JCM800