Do GOOD distortion/OD pedals really exist?

[touji-za-nai]

I've searched around, and I can't seem to find a GOOD (grade a) heavy/hard rock pedal. The best I've found is the Jekyll and Hyde V2 OD/Distortion combo pedal...

Ask a thousand guitarists and they will generally give you the metalzone/bigmuff solution, which to anybody with the slightest bit of "tone experience" sounds like angry farty bees in a box.


Does it exist? A pedal that can REALLY produce a GOOD heavy tone? It just seems that the heavier the tone is, the harder it is to keep in line. (harder for a pedal to replicate)



EDIT: And let me specify what I mean by "heavy" tone pedal.. I'm not talking about ACDC/Eddi tones, I mean modern heavy. ie. Every Time I Die (http://www.myspace.com/everytimeIdie) or Underoath (http://www.myspace.com/underoath)

[tonewheels]

I like my Marshall Jackhammer.......the overdrive setting is good, the distortion setting not so much. I just got a Marshall Guv'ner2, I have not messed around with it much but it seems decent as well.
I am not a fan of the Boss distortion pedals at all.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[Zoesch]

I've searched around, and I can't seem to find a GOOD (grade a) heavy/hard rock pedal. The best I've found is the Jekyll and Hyde V2 OD/Distortion combo pedal...

Ask a thousand guitarists and they will generally give you the metalzone/bigmuff solution, which to anybody with the slightest bit of "tone experience" sounds like angry farty bees in a box.


Does it exist? A pedal that can REALLY produce a GOOD heavy tone? It just seems that the heavier the tone is, the harder it is to keep in line. (harder for a pedal to replicate)



EDIT: And let me specify what I mean by "heavy" tone pedal.. I'm not talking about ACDC/Eddi tones, I mean modern heavy. ie. Every Time I Die (http://www.myspace.com/everytimeIdie) or Underoath (http://www.myspace.com/underoath)

Tough break... that's all amp distortion with lots of layering for those two examples... Underoath is Orange-town so you might want to go and try a Tiny Terror and see if that works out for you.

[touji-za-nai]

Tough break... that's all amp distortion with lots of layering for those two examples... Underoath is Orange-town so you might want to go and try a Tiny Terror and see if that works out for you.

They both use JCM 800's. I heard that ETID uses strait 800 with no boosts. Obviously lots of modding work would be needed for that...

I have a JCM 800 2205, but stupid me! I bought it off eBay, and got myself a sour JCM 800. It's a tad fizzy sounding. Not really too rich sounding.

[Zoesch]

They both use JCM 800's. I heard that ETID uses strait 800 with no boosts. Obviously lots of modding work would be needed for that...

I have a JCM 800 2205, but stupid me! I bought it off eBay, and got myself a sour JCM 800. It's a tad fizzy sounding. Not really too rich sounding.

Underoath (And this is after having seen them live a couple of times plus asking around) is Orange... they are even sponsored by them :lol:

http://www.orangeamps.com/artists.asp?Action=View&ID=102

Although it's very common to layer a JCM800 with an Orange or a Framus to give it a bit of mid fizz to the sound it's not the main source of the sound.

However, you might want to try with a Sansamp PSA-1 or Bass Driver fronting the JCM800 and see where that gets you, might be up your alley.

[Mo Facta]

What happens here with a lot of the metal/hard rock guys is they'll buy a big stack with a million channels (the worst is when it's actually a really decent tube amp) and they end up using a Boss Metal Zone into the clean channel and expect to get a good tone. What about the other channels? That really grates me.

Use the amp for what it was made for. Explore mods. Start at the amp. When I was younger I used to use a million pedals and rack FX and all it did was make my tone noisey and muddy. When I reconstructed my approach (just guitar -> cable -> amp) it was a revelation.

I don't believe distortion pedals can be convincingly used as a staple sound unless in conjunction with a good sounding amp distortion. True, there's a million options and they all sound different so therefore the possibilies are many, but generally, IMHO, a high-gain distortion into a clean channel is bollocks and never works. It's always a half-assed version of the target sound. That is why I believe in simple, organic distortion pedals used to augment an already good-sounding amp distortion. A DS-1 into an old JMP is one of my favorites. For hard rock/metal, there are a million amps out there that will get you 'that sound' without a pedal. After all, that's what your heros probably use any attempt to recreate those sounds without a great sounding amp will still leave you wanting.

Do not look to pedals to give you a good sound. Start at the amp. Research professionals whose sound you admire. I can guarentee you that they don't use a Metal Zone into the clean channel of a bazillion watt Genz-Benz Diablo.

Cheers :)

[gronk]

When I reconstructed my approach (just guitar -> cable -> amp) it was a revelation.


Oh yeah, I got to that point 25 years ago. I figured that I would never get noticed for my sound...I had to get noticed by my playing. Ok so it didn't work out for me, but it was good in theory!

You'll know if it sounds good, cos you'll never wanna stop playing...it's all "let's do it again!", rather than mix/fix...

too much wine. I'll shut up now!

[Zoesch]

Really I prefer to keep distortion pedals on the FX loop and use them as boosters... nothing beats the actual amp distortion when it comes to getting thick sounds.

[Bob Olhsson]

Such may exist now but as of fifteen years ago I had never encountered a pedal that didn't castrate the sound.

[mclights]

Radial makes a decent line of overdrive units. Ive got a single channel tube head (fairly clean) that i run one into (the 'classic' model theyve got) and get fairly decent results. Wouldnt be surprised if youve already seen em, but heres the link.

http://www.tonebone.com/

if you hate the metalzone/etc (lifeless chainsaw distortion), you should give em a try. they respond pretty nicely to pick dynamics.

[Knastratt]

I have a UniValve and a decent collection of NOS tubes. While giving me a stellar clean sound, a great blues tone and a more than decent rock chuggah flavour - it's sorta fizzy for a great distorted lead sound.

A friend brought a Koch Pedaltone to the party and, wow, that was the missing force.

I'd love to have one but since I already have the Rocktron Piranha I can get in the vicinity by hooking it up with the UniValve.

So to answer your q - yes! The Pedaltone isn't just a great OD box but doubles as a DI box and a 0,5 W power amplifier. I've never got a chance to try those options out but the ability as a pre or OD was brilliant.

Cheers - Pär

[blackieC]

It's the amp.

The amp sucks, but it's still the amp.

Several amps together can be really freakin' sweet. It's still the amps.

However, you might want to try with a Sansamp PSA-1 or Bass Driver fronting the JCM800 and see where that gets you, might be up your alley.


I left that part unedited because it is the gospel. At first, and probably for a while, a PSA-1 into an amp may want to make you punch a puppy, but if you spend enough time twiddling knobs you will find some magic. Also, some of my favorite bass tones involved a BDI in front of my amp. The BDI is the best bass overdrive ever, but also requires a bit of twiddling to find the happy place.

Just my humble opinion.

The Boss Metalzone sucks and I am an eloquent individual.

Cheers :)

I'm old enough to require vitamin supplements and it's still the amp.

too much wine. I'll shut up now!

Okay, I'm just being stupid now. Yes there are great overdrive pedals. But many, many of these pedals have met amps they didn't like.

P.S. It's still the amp.


I have gotten silly miles out of a TS-9 in front of a JCM-800, but that pedal into that amp works for me. If I put the same pedal in front of the plexi I get the sound of two cloned badgers clawing their way in unison toward the center of my skull. Everyone has their favorites, (I again insert a plug for Sansamp products with those without a fear of a learning curve.) but this is not unlike comparing girlfriends. Stupid analogy to follow...

Seriously, I am just thinking this up as I type it.


I will regret this.



Let's just say that men are amps. I am not saying that because of power issues or whatever repressed bitterness I may carry around like the stinking carcass of an albatross around my neck.

Okay, no way I'm digging myself out of that hole.


Anyway, lets just say than in the world of pedal-amp relationships, the amp is the man and the pedal is the woman.

It's rare, but sometimes the pedal makes the amp a better man.

More often than not the pedal adjusts to the amp and they get by.

Sometimes the amp adjusts to the pedal and ends up emasculated.

And if I may return to the Tech 21 plug, relationships are hard work. If you are willing to take the time, it will all be worth it in the end.

[omikl]

I'm a bit late to this thread, but I've grown to love the following combinations over the years when I feel like a bit of face melting:

The Mesa V-Twin (Currently hors de combat as one of my kids managed to break the power supply's plug that connects it to the unit). I typically run it inot a clean Fender amp. Take a listen to the solo at the end of Team Hinterland's offering from Cape V(?). That's the V-Twin's solo channel on about half gain into a close mic'd Fender Princeton Reverb.

The Sansamp GT-2 into an amps fx return. It doesn't like the pre-amp of any amp I ever ran it into.

[otek]

I use pedals all the time for heavy distorted sounds.

Sometimes, it's a clean boost pedal for really punching the input stage.

Sometimes it's other pedals (and combinations). I have a bunch of different ones, from old 70's fuzz boxes with discrete electronics to more modern ones like the Jackhammer and the Boss Metal Zone.

Yep, you heard me. I use the Metal Zone from time to time. It's a bit of a one trick pony, and you really have to manipulate the tone controls and gain stages of the amp in conjunction with those on the pedal to make it sound worth a damn. But once you do, you will be rewarded with a highly usable sound.

When I use pedals, it's almost always into the clean channel of the amp. From there I dial a good crunch tone and A/B that constantly to the amp's own distorted tone, which I dial in first. This way I get a choice of sounds to use during tracking.

A new pedal that seems to sound really good is the Emma Electronics PisdiYAUwot. There are demos available here (http://www.emmaelectronic.com/video/video.html) and here (http://www.emmaelectronic.com/sounds/PisdiYAUwot%20large.wmv).

Incidentally, they also make a noise gate pedal called the Banjo Eliminator. Gotta love their naming convention. :D


otek

[Brendo]

How would you guys rate the Zoom Trimetal, the Boss HM2 and the Rocktron Silver Dragon? Those are currently my go-to pedals for metal, although I've started to slide back towards the more midrangey sound of my amp distortion.

[otek]

How would you guys rate the Zoom Trimetal, the Boss HM2 and the Rocktron Silver Dragon? Those are currently my go-to pedals for metal, although I've started to slide back towards the more midrangey sound of my amp distortion.

The Tri-Metal is a lot of fun, and it's likely the most insane distortion I've ever heard from a pedal, plus it stays pretty focused even at face-melting gain levels. It also has very efficient tone control and a healthy amount of level boost (you can really make the input stage on the amp fart out).

The HM-2 is also a useful pedal, though I like to combine it with an EQ for more control of the midrange (it only has low and high EQ bands, for those of you who have been in a coma for the past 20 years :D ). This one has become a classic of sorts, and was used for some great rhythm tones (Check out Joe Satriani's Flying In A Blue Dream, where among other things, it's being used in combination with - a Roland Jazz Chorus! :icon_eek:)

I haven't tried the Rocktron pedal, but I know they have some pretty good-sounding pedals and great build quality. Which amps do you typically find it works well with?


otek

[Brendo]

Well, I've only tried it with my DSL401, but it sort of does the Trimetal on half gain thing (which is still TONS, right) but with a slightly 80's kind of sound - think "...And Justice For All" and you're getting close, except you can dial in some low end as well and probably more gain.

Sort of has two halves to the pedal, so there's an overdrive half which isn't stellar but it's alright, that's the 'tube' side supposedly (but the pedal runs off 13vac so it's not real tube tone) and then the other half is the distorted side which kicks in some solidstate action, with a knob to control asymmetry and some other controls.

Might have to make a clip.

[AxeSlash]

*sigh* there's one vital component missing from most dirt pedals I've tried: a tube of some description.

I'm yet to hear a solid state (or worse, digital) pedal that cuts it for heavy stuff.

I *did* encounter a DOD pedal years ago that allegedly had a valve in it though...not sure what it sounded like or if it was any good, but I was intrigued.

But I agree, most dirt pedals sound ok clean, and ok with stupidly oversaturated dirt. Anything inbetween (like that "chug" range of gain that we love so much) just sounds like a hornet's nest being pissed into, because in my experience solid state stuff has a pretty harsh transition into distortion, unlike tubes, which seem to have a more gentle transition into it. Maybe I'm talking bollocks, but that's what years of playing guitar have taught me.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that using a dirt pedal to push the input to the amp (i.e. using it as either a clean boost or to put a tiny touch of dirt onto it before it hits the amp's pre) is an old trick that DOES work with a variety of pedals (even with some otherwise useless ones). A certain Mr. Vai uses such a technique. Personally I prefer that approach just on lead tones, it can kinda smudge the pick attack out a little too much for rhythm work...but as usual it kinda depends on the part.

[gronk]

I never did try that Hotcake pedal, but I keep hearing that I should.

Now I'm off to take my vitamins, so turn that friggin music down!

[otek]

in my experience solid state stuff has a pretty harsh transition into distortion, unlike tubes, which seem to have a more gentle transition into it.

Maybe I missed something and we're not talking heavy chug rhythms anymore, but for that usage, I fail to understand where you would need the "gentle transition".

For me it's always been about scaring the crap out of the input stage to get the attack and crunch.

that Hotcake pedal

It's a sweet pedal, but I wouldn't recommend it for heavy rhythm guitar. It's by no means ample in the gain department. It does have a couple of nifty tonal tricks up its sleeve however.


otek

[Damage, Inc.]

Just to add my $.02 and agree with the general consensus, you need a good amp first. You can use a clean boost or TS9 or something like that into the input stage, but the character of the amp has to be right. I have not yet come across a distortion pedal that has the right gain/tone characteristics...i.e., they're all buzzy as hell.

[touji-za-nai]

Underoath (And this is after having seen them live a couple of times plus asking around) is Orange... they are even sponsored by them :lol:

http://www.orangeamps.com/artists.asp?Action=View&ID=102


I honestly don't care who sponsors them. Tim uses an 800 with a TS808 in front. I know that for a fact. You can see him using it live, and in the studio videos. RIGHT THERE



*sigh*

[Zoesch]

Sigh, I'm not gonna get into the sponsorship argument but when you actually get a chance to see them live twice in a week (about four weeks ago) and you see them plugged to a couple of Orange amps you sorta think that they might be playing through said amps :lol:

But as I said, go ahed, try something like the Bass Driver or the PSA-1 and see if you can drive that JCM up, my money will be on a decent tone that's not the one you want.

[Cary Chilton]

I use pedals all the time for heavy distorted sounds.


A new pedal that seems to sound really good is the Emma Electronics PisdiYAUwot. There are demos available here (http://www.emmaelectronic.com/video/video.html) and here (http://www.emmaelectronic.com/sounds/PisdiYAUwot%20large.wmv).



otek

Dang Otek, that is a great metal pedal!
The Box of Metal is over-rated but ok, the crunch box kinda middy and lofi- but ok, the Mad Professional Dynamics Red Distortion is a nice pedal, but not a mean sounding as this new emma, the Emma Reezafratitiz (spelling??) is also a good pedal albeit low saturation and not as mean sounding as this new one,
the TIM pedal -changeable IC socket!!!- low shelving EQ and a 1/2 voltage circuit -double saturation- also with optional dual assymetrical clipping vs symmetrical toggles, the Stage Hog mini tube amp (line out or speaker out 1 watt rms), the Gjika, the nano amp. Done.

[lambro]

Ken Fischer told me to get a Hot cake about 20 years ago and its been my main pedal ever since.

I do favor it more for strats.

for hard rock the Mad Professor Might Red Distortion is awesome whith humbuckers

run the MRD into a relatively clean marshal type set up and lookout. No problem getting harmonic squelches, crunch chords.


add water makes its own sauce

[PatF]

Using those old rack pre/multi fx units xlr out into a reamp can yeild some cool sounds. The reamp matches the output / input impedances up and lets you not hammer the first stage of the amp so hard.

I think better heavy sounds and feel come from when the 1st tube sounds all nice and chimey not pounded by a hot pedal. YMMV.

[vanityaffair]

I honestly don't care who sponsors them. Tim uses an 800 with a TS808 in front. I know that for a fact. You can see him using it live, and in the studio videos.

i have seen UO's studio videos, talked to both tim and james, and stared at their gear (god bless the local tampa scene)...live, tim uses two amps...marshall jcm800 through an orange cab, and an orange ad30 through another orange. james rocks an 800 and a fender bassman. that's just live...

...in studio is a whole 'nuther beast. keep in mind that underoath does their guitars with adam d, the anal retentive king of re-amping. the last two records have been a HUGE mix of marshall, orange, soldano, framus, mesa, and whatever other "heavy" amp you can think of, not to mention various vox's and fenders for the clean/effected bits.

know that, in order to get a sound like their records, you're not dealing with the sound of a guitar. you're dealing with SEVERAL guitars/amps/effects, a pretty hefty bass sound, and very careful arrangement. imho, you will never, not ever, not once, get their sound, live or studio, without having the 3 dudes playing their specific parts through their gear.

add on top of that the synth stuff that lays underneath (listen to the new underoath record for a lot of that, and also see howard benson's work on saosin's debut), and you might be getting there.

if you're doing modern heavy/hardcore music, don't worry about getting the tones that make your guitar sound the best. get the tones that compliment the other players in your band to get the best overall sound possible. you're supposed to be one tight unit, not a mismatched group of sounds (but that one guy has a SICK tone!).

and as for your other example...ETID are hardcore marshall users.

[Unfcknblvbl]

Murph?




.

[Randall]

I've been through lots of distortion pedals.. never seeming to get quite what I was looking for.. enter the Radial Tone Bone Classic I'm using currently.. not 100% of the way there but do we ever achieve nirvana in this life?

[strangedays]

Theres loads of solid state stuff out there, im not going to say anything is good or bad, ive been proven wrong in the past but one pedal I think you cannot dis is this:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/stompboxes/sfx03_twin_tube/

Yes its valve but has some great properties, it really does give you some great tone without loosing that thump.

If you dont like it there is something wrong with you.. (only kidding we all have our own taste)


it is worth seriously checking out. Works best with a valve amp requiring a bit of push

[greyskull]

Etid use Tubescreamers in front of their amps too.
certainly live anyhow.

Ive got a 2205 and i fucking love it.

Tickling the front end of a high gain monster with a Ts can really help with clarity, or can push a non master volume head just a little further