Malice reviews the Avantone Mix cube

[malice]

Ok,

You know me, not very found of gear threads, but I'll always comply if someone asks me, so here it is, as promised and before the end of the WE.

Beside, there are not very satisfactory reviews about these that I could pick on the net and none of them really nailed the reasons why these are great tools for mixing so I'm glad to humbly clear some misconceptions about "one way" monitoring systems in general.

A little bit of history about the Auratones 5c Soundcubes first. They were designed by Jack Wilson,he passed away on June 26th, 2005. They were, to my knowledge, the first reference monitors in studios long before the NS10s. I'm not a 100 percent sure, but I think that Bruce Sweddien was at the origins of the spreading use of what was soon to be called "horrortone" in recording facilities.

So what is it all about. Not listening pleasure I guess.

Don't take these as entry level monitors by any stretch of imagination : Mix Cubes are TOOLS. Some AM radio lovers might find these great sounding, but it is not the purpose, not at all. Furthermore, these are not to be taken as main monitors for mixing, you don't "mix" on them.

instead, you will find them great for several reasons.

First, to listen your mix into a worst case scenario situation.
You might argue that everyone listens to music in good conditions nowadays, especially in their cars (wich was not the case when they were spreaded in all studios) and I might respond that it is NOT true. They are plenty of situations where you have to listen to one way speakers : clock radios, ipod dock stations, cheap radios, televisions, stores PA systems, small boomboxes.

When you say "bass challenge" system, you think auratones. If you manage to have your bass/drums discernable in these, well, it WILL translate in any system.

Now there is another great feature : midrange focusing.

The avantone are linear between 80Hz (well, maybe 100Hz) and 8KHz. in most of 2 way systems (or three ways), you will have a nasty crossover inducing phase unlinearity around, let's say 3 to 4 kHz and clouding a very important part of the signal where the vocals or guitars balance are critical.

I allready tried them against my Quested H-108 wich I consider to be very revealing in the medium range, and to my surprise, the Avantone kill them for that purpose. It is ridiculous, I listend to some mixes I have done lately and I could pick good vocal positioning instantly with them when I had to scratch my head with the Questeds.

Another thing that they are great at is listening to them in mono thru one speaker. Instant tv sound, this is like it's gonna sound on MTV. Very usefull.

So again, these are not to be taken as your only monitoring system, but only if you are serious about having your mixes translating well with great balance in the midrange.

Now a couple of points related to the Avantones in particular.

First, the building quality is outstanding, far better than 5c, and above all, it is very difficult to find Auratone that are not beat up by the time. I think they are better anyway, but it is very difficult to judge a brand new model against some 25 years old of service counterpart.

Second : you need to wait for at least 48 to 72 hours continual use before getting the most of them. I tried them before, and after, it was night and day. the suspenssions do need to work a bit before being good for service.

Third : you need more power than you imagine for such small speakers. I mean 2 X 100 RMS amp is what I'm talking about.

I tried them with the Quested's amp (a C-Audio RA1000) and it sounded a LOT better than the NAD HiFi 2X40W I wich would have done the trick. I doubt the brand as much importance, all you need is a fair amount of power. Because you will need to feed them with bass content signal. When they crap out your bass : you're over what you want for good translation, that's the game. But you need to be able to feed them with the signal to judge about that (I hope I make myself clear)

Fourth : you can screw them to a mic stand. How cool is that ?

Oh, and they are only one color: creal white, and they're fucking gorgeous.

Hope this helps

malice

[otek]

Well, if I was ever uncertain about getting a pair of Avantones.... that uncertainty is gone now.

Thanks Malice for the fine review!


otek

[dwoz]

I remember seeing auratones sitting on the meter bridge at the first "real" studio I ever sat in, back in something like 1978-9.

As I recall, at that time the primary use for them was to "save the mains". All talkback/slate was routed through them, and they were used to check the foldback mix that the musos were hearing, and they were also used when the engineer was shuttling/rewinding to a locator point...there is NOTHING like the sound of repro heads flying in at the end of a FAST autolocator run, when you forget to bring down the main monitors. Also used for editing, when the tape op was scrubbing over the cut.

and, of course, "what is it going to sound like on am radio?"

dwoz

[vocalnick]

I remember seeing auratones sitting on the meter bridge at the first "real" studio I ever sat in, back in something like 1978-9.

As I recall, at that time the primary use for them was to "save the mains". All talkback/slate was routed through them, and they were used to check the foldback mix that the musos were hearing

Yep, we had a set of little JBL cubes that served a similar purpose in the audio control room in my old job (TV). It would default to mirroring the desk's control room outs, but we'd patch all sorts of things in there as required by the day's tasks.

Surprisingly enough, given the nature of the workplace, they were almost never used by most operators for lo-fi reality checks. It was quite funny watching the new/temp people cranking the LF in the control room, and then visualising the 2" TV speakers that they were broadcasting to :lol:

[Baddo]

Ok,

You know me, not very found of gear ... one color: creal white, and they're fucking gorgeous.

Hope this helps

malice

This is the best review I've seen for this critters on the net. Very clear and concise.

I would buy them for sure If I didn't own a pair already. :) :)

[slabrock]

A pair of Avantones added to the shopping list.

A great review.

Thanks,

Slabrock

[goatie]

Hi Malice,

thanks for that review.

I'm considering these speakers (although I've heard that the active ones will be released in July or August), but I'm still somewhat in the dark choosing the amp.

Your explanation of why you need a powerful amp is the first that made sense to me :Roll eyes:

Would the Alesis RA300 do the job (8 ohms 90 watts RMS per channel)? Or would you choose the Alesis RA500 (8 ohms 150 watts RMS per channel)?

Thanks in advance!

[DaveC]

review appreciated here, thanks

[malice]

Hi Malice,

thanks for that review.

I'm considering these speakers (although I've heard that the active ones will be released in July or August), but I'm still somewhat in the dark choosing the amp.

Your explanation of why you need a powerful amp is the first that made sense to me :Roll eyes:

Would the Alesis RA300 do the job (8 ohms 90 watts RMS per channel)? Or would you choose the Alesis RA500 (8 ohms 150 watts RMS per channel)?

Thanks in advance!


I don't really know these amps, but the smaller powered one seems about just right. I don't think a stellar amp is needed, so I guess you will be cool with this one.

malice

[Skwaidu]

Thanks for the in-depth review Malice! FWIW I ordered mine today... And yeah, I'm going to get the cheapo Alesis amp to compliment. :Roll eyes:

[Pimp-X]

I have been mixing on my Avantones almost constantly for the last 3 days with fantastic results. I would recommend these monitors to anyone wanting a wideband single-driver mid-focussed complement to their existing full-range monitoring system.

[bbkong]

Lucky me, they have a box full of Horrortones AND new Avantones down at Coast Recording. Guess it's time to toodle over and stick em both in my ear.

I keep forgetting I need these.

[Bob Olhsson]

...A little bit of history about the Auratones 5c Soundcubes first. They were designed by Jack Wilson,he passed away on June 26th, 2005. They were, to my knowledge, the first reference monitors in studios long before the NS10s...

The Auratones became very popular because they worked well but "reference monitors" had been a fixture of pro studios for years.

The east coast used whatever happened to be the biggest selling bookshelf hi-fi speakers. Checking stereo imaging was a real challenge in older control rooms which had been designed more for uncovering musical problems that required a retake than for mixing. LA studios typically used little 4" paging speakers or 6"x9" car radio speakers before the Auratone turned up. The first I heard of them, one of the technicians at ABC Records studios was selling them in 1972. The East coast progressed From the KLH 6 in the early-mid '60s to the Advents, to the JBL L-100/4310, to the Yamaha NS-4 as each became the biggest selling speaker.

During the '70s almost everybody in the recording world moved to LA and both Auratones and JBL 4310 monitors were very popular. The east coast continued past the JBLs to the NS4s. When Yamaha pulled the plug on the NS-4, a lot of people liked them and turned to the NS-10 which was the closest thing to an NS-4 that they still made. In the late '70s many people from outside the recording industry started building studios as tax shelters and "Pro Audio" dealers appeared on the scene selling these folks absolutely anything that appeared on the cover of a Mix magazine.

[HOOK]

In the late '70s many people from outside the recording industry started building studios as tax shelters and "Pro Audio" dealers appeared on the scene selling these folks absolutely anything that appeared on the cover of a Mix magazine.

...soooo...not much have changed then....!?!?:Roll eyes:



HOOK

[Skwaidu]

I got them. Just used them on one mix, but they did what they were supposed to which is cool... And they look good! (Actually almost matches one of the colours in my room, lucky me... ;) )

Just gotta figure a better position for them as currently they are pretty high on top of my NS-10's... Also I'm still waiting for their dedicated power amp... As well as the custom passive switch box with mono-to-left as a bonus! :D (I already maxed the 3 outputs on my XMon)

[Pancho Ballard]

Just gotta figure a better position for them as currently they are pretty high on top of my NS-10's...

Would I not be right in thinking that where you place these monitors isn't too important and they're probably fulfilling their purpose even more if they're in some strange spot where normally you'd stick a portable radio or something?

[malice]

Would I not be right in thinking that where you place these monitors isn't too important and they're probably fulfilling their purpose even more if they're in some strange spot where normally you'd stick a portable radio or something?

LOL,

you might be right. Anyway, mines are a bit too high as well.

But that forces me to stand up for a while, and do some exercise, wich is cool.

Btw, I use to mix standing up when mixing with a large desks.

It is possible to do so because I can lower my head when griping the desk with my hands (I'm not very tall).

Mixing with a DAW makes this almost impossible, and it is, among other factors, one of the thing I dislike about DAW mixing.

malice

[Pancho Ballard]

It is possible to do so because I can lower my head when griping the desk with my hands (I'm not very tall).


I often end up gripping my head with my hands when it's not going well...

[leester]

Btw, I use to mix standing up when mixing with a large desks.


Odd... I thought I was the only one who did that.




lees

[6x2]

Great review, malice!

I got them too and they're great little bastards! Also, they almost fit the colour scheme... Which would be the same as Skwai's as we're next door. :D

Nonetheless, gotta consider getting a more powerful amp. We'll see.

Cheers,

6x2

[goatie]

I've read that the active ones will be released in June.
Some website mentioned they were going to be 40W.

Would this be enough? (in regards to the explanation of why you need a powerful amp)

[Jeff_C]

I've read that the active ones will be released in June.
Some website mentioned they were going to be 40W.

Would this be enough? (in regards to the explanation of why you need a powerful amp)

I emailed Glen Heffner with Avant Electronics about the powered versions and received a very detailed response with preliminary specs, photos, etc. He said they would begin shipping in about 60 days with a list price of $390/pair or $199 for a single speaker.

Here's some info from his email:

The box looks exactly the same just deeper and they have a tiny blue LED light to the inside of each one. They are each powered by a 40 watt RMS Mosfet amplifier which is Transformerless. The back is rather cool…For inputs; we have a combination-type ¼”- XLR balanced input as well as an RCA input. A heavy duty power on/off switch is also on the back. To balance in-coming signal levels we opted to go with a 3 position switch that guarantees 3 stable consistent input levels (I believe we’re set at -30db 0db and +6db). We know that trying to set accurate levels with a potentiometer for each MixCube would be extremely difficult (because we don’t believe that the pots would respond the same during their travel from1 to 10) and we didn’t think that any engineers would want to spend their time monkeying around trying to set them. At least this way, we know that you’re getting accurate levels from both monitors!

Finally, we have a really nice power connector for the MixCubes, but I’ll go ahead and warn you that it is a wall-wart type of supply. It has a nice long connector from the MixCube to the “lump” and then another to your AC. We didn’t want any power source in the ‘Cubes.
I was ready to build a set of Auratone clones when I stumbled across Malice's review. After investigating, I think I'll just order some of these when they're released this summer.

Jeff_C

[malice]

I've read that the active ones will be released in June.
Some website mentioned they were going to be 40W.

Would this be enough? (in regards to the explanation of why you need a powerful amp)

40 watt rms, if it's good amp, why not. But they will have to stick this into a very small space, I wonder how they will make this fit in the box. I guess building slightly larger ones.

Prolly puting a PSU "outside" the units ...

I don't know ...

Not convinced by the idea somehow, I mean, making "active" auratones.

But i'll have to give them a shot.

Amazing, I made a mix yesterday, checking the balance in mono : bang, my fender Rhodes was OBVIOUSLY too loud.

Back to the Quested after notching the track a tad : perfect.

love these things

malice

[Immanuel]

Would I not be right in thinking that where you place these monitors isn't too important and they're probably fulfilling their purpose even more if they're in some strange spot where normally you'd stick a portable radio or something?

Being 5" full range speakers, they would loose a lot of high frequencies the more you get out of angle.

Interesting thread.

[PRobb]

I often end up gripping my head with my hands when it's not going well...
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[PRobb]

Amazing, I made a mix yesterday, checking the balance in mono : bang, my fender Rhodes was OBVIOUSLY too loud.

Back to the Quested after notching the track a tad : perfect.

love these things

malice
That is PRECISELY what Aura/AVA tones do. Nothing is more important than the fader mix. I hear a lot of records where everything sounds amazing but the fader mix is sloppy. The little guys are a magnifying glass for level stuff.

[Cary Chilton]

The little guys are a magnifying glass for level stuff.

THat is true! Why is that????

[otek]

THat is true! Why is that????


I think it's because they don't dazzle. In fact, they can't dazzle.

With small speakers, massive subs aren't gonna trick you into believing for example that your kick drum is loud enough when in fact it sounds like a wet cat fart.

They will also let you know what works on other small speakers, where after all most people are gonna enjoy your mixes in the end.


otek

[weedywet]

there should be no distinction between the mix and the "fader mix".

a good mix is ALWAYS about BALANCE more than anything else.

[slabrock]

I finally received my pair of Avantones (they had some delivery problems up here, probably the polar bears ate the delivery sleigh or something) just in time for some new sessions.

I took them with me to a studio i frequent, and what happened was, that since there was no session going that day, we started to listen to all kinds of records through them. You could easily discern the ones that were originally made with Auratones even though with any other system they sounded just similarly good as some other records of the time and style.

What's more, you could immediately tell when there was a conflict on the midrange. With the studio's usual Genelecs adding too much stuff just sounds the more the merrier, but with Avantones we decided to go immediately back to last weeks undelivered mixes and re-do them.

Of course they don't tell anything about what's happening in the low or high end, but for the mids they are a good tool.

We also ordered another pair while they're still cheap and available.

Peace,

Slabrock

[Mojo]

...we started to listen to all kinds of records through them. You could easily discern the ones that were originally made with Auratones even though with any other system they sounded just similarly good as some other records of the time and style.I thought it was just me but it looks like I'm not alone. Took delivery a couple of weeks back and, per Malice, pumped signal through them for 2 days to break them in. At first I thought they were shit while listening to newer stuff but as I worked backwards in time, things began to 'clear up' in them. Got into the 60s and ran them in mono and they left you wanting for nothing. You could hear everything going on and, to my surprise, a couple of things I never heard before. Even material mixed on 604s faired well. Makes me want to get mine restored.

After break-in, I did a bit of a test. The parameters were that the song needed to reveal kick and bass clearly and contain no harshness in the upper frequencies. I found the Cubes will let you know immediately just how nasty things can get up there that's not always revealed in 2-way setups. I went through the CaPE collection to see what songs sounded best and the winners were Team Mixerman, Team Chardonnay, Team Independence and Team Womb. An aside to this is that everything in those songs sat perfect in the mix. Coincidence? I think not. :Wink:

Endless thanks to Malice for the review (and turning me on to these things) and to Bob Olhsson for his bottomless pit of knowledge. This place rocks! :Thumbsup: [/fanboy]

[st robert]

just got a pair.
running with an alesis ra100, they seem to have enough ear-splitting midrange juice. gotta love it.

i was very happy to hear my album through them to realize that all is represented rather well, but listened to the milar project through them and was fucking horrified at what i had done to that poor song. i wish i had these a couple months ago...

i am super pleased with 'em so far. (and they look bitchin on top of the event asp8s)

rob

[EyreSpace]

Very interesting tools. Just bought a pair of Avantones and a Bryston 2b. Revisited some mixes and these monitors will speed up many decisions. Thanks for the recommendation!

[Jeff_C]

Avant had told us that a powered version of mixcubes was in the works, and I just noticed that they are finally listed on their website now. The list price is $359. It says they are "Coming Soon" but at least there are photos and specs here (http://www.avantelectronics.com/Active%20mixcubes.htm).

I hope soon means soon. I've been waiting a long time...

[TubaSolo]

Bought ' em too, with a ra100 amp, 3 days ago.

Fantastic, now I gotta touch up about a dozen mixes. :Mad:

Thanks a lot guys!

:Wink: :Coolio:

[st robert]

still love the little bastards...

[GTBannah]

Avant had told us that a powered version of mixcubes was in the works, and I just noticed that they are finally listed on their website now. The list price is $359. It says they are "Coming Soon" but at least there are photos and specs here (http://www.avantelectronics.com/Active%20mixcubes.htm).

I hope soon means soon. I've been waiting a long time...I got an eMail this week that said January .... would make a nice Birthday present :grin: .... keeping my fingers crossed ....

[GTBannah]

....
What's more, you could immediately tell when there was a conflict on the midrange. With the studio's usual Genelecs adding too much stuff just sounds the more the merrier, but with Avantones we decided to go immediately back to last weeks undelivered mixes and re-do them.

....
Peace,

Slabrock

Tell me about Genelecs. I have a pair of 1031As that a chap wants to buy. I've been hearing about Adams and Quested. should I sell the Gens and get something else?

[Tommy Fobia]

I got an eMail this week that said January .... would make a nice Birthday present :grin: .... keeping my fingers crossed ....

Definitely! Mines in February, so I'll start dropping hints to my significant other soon after new year...

I've been thinking about getting a set of small near-field reference monitors for specifically checking my mids.

These look cute. :)

[mattian]

i haven't a good low response, really bad, i can't fix it, i haven't a good place to work and i can't change that.

do you think is possible mix with one avantone and 2 ns10 and cans (akg 271k)?

you say that avantones are tools not speaker to mix in, why?

[Mikey MTC]

you say that avantones are tools not speaker to mix in, why?

They're no good to use as a primary mix reference because they're so lacking in the lows and highs that you WILL make mistakes. I mean, you must because you can't hear what's going on there at all. Even the Avantone docs stress their main use to be as a secondary reference.

I LOVE them for levelling parts. When it's time to sit in a solo or check if some little highlight part is even audible, they're brilliant because they are so unoforgiving between too soft, too loud or just right. Fancy high-resolution monitors seem to give you so much room and things are still audible. With the cubes you can make quite serious moves and yet the end result is still fine on the mains.

[mattian]

ok but if you mix using mid frequencies and check lows and highs with cans, you can, i mean the most difficult part is mixing mids, if you got the mids sounds right the lows and highs are easily..

i've read on gearslutz of a lot of people that have used just avantone for mix and than another pair of speakers or cans just to check lows and highs..

[Tim Halligan]

i've read on gearslutz...


Well...there's your first problem... :Roll eyes:


...of a lot of people that have used just avantone for mix and than another pair of speakers or cans just to check lows and highs..

Speakers...yes...but for more than just checking either end of the spectrum.

Cans...maybe...but certainly NOT for critical mix decisions.

Cheers,
Tim

[mattian]

hihi ok..

the point is that i've bought a pair of ns10 and i've notice how my dynaudio sounds orrible.. i mean a lot colored a lot of dips on mids and highmids.. a lot muddy that i boost a lot frequencies that are not important for character of the sounds.

in dynaudio i boost a lot the 3 to 5k area and i have some hard highs and rumble lows that distract my attention from where the sound is.. on mids.

in ns 10 i've discovered that for example to have a bass more brilliant i have to boost somewhere between 300hz and 800 and 2/3k are just noise of click of transients.. pick etc..

i've made my most brilliant bass with new strings and a hi cut at 1.5 and boosts on mids..

and checking in my car mix translates..

but yes i exaggerate with lows and hi fi speakers distorting..
i use cans for lows and i can find right freq but i can't find the right level..

[recall]

I've never been able to level a bass guitar on a bass deficient speaker.

I have avantones and they are great for seeing if the high end of the bass is "suggested" properly.

But, I need to check the bass on another two full range(ish) speakers.

I also used Roger Nicholls' inspector free RTA to see if I have any weird bumps or boosts in the spectrum.

This is a good little tool. put some cd's you think are bright/dull bassy/trebly through Inspector and you will see whats going on.

I don't think I could use the avantones and NS-10's with only cans for bass level ref.


However.....

I would buy Avantones, even if they will not address your bass issue. They are really useful and not expensive

[mattian]

thanks!

[a33]

Malice Thanks for the great review I am going to check these out they sound useful