The Team Womb II discussion thread

[MacGregor]

Yup, here it is.
We're not allowed to post down in their forum so I think we should discuss here
what they are doing.
I mean, we mortals can learn a lot from the Gods down there.

Just notice the early announcement by Aardvark that the song
will be in 'D', so that the guitar players can buy some spare 'D'
strings in time and the keyboard player can mark all 'D' keys on
his Bontempi organ with some Post-it[TM] to avoid confusion.
Even Goes211 has now time to tune his cowbell to 'D' and learn all
the lyrics of Pachelbel's Canon in D beforehand.

That's fuckin' brilliant!

Mac

[Carlo]

oh hell, they just Autotune everything...

[MudCat]

Just notice the early announcement by Aardvark that the song
will be in 'D'....



I've been trying to reach both Trazan and Fulcrum to get them to push for D#......when in doubt, modulate!






:grin:

[jstuart]

Isn't D the saddest key of all?
jus' wonderin'
j

[Watershed]

Ah, but sad songs say so much. :Roll eyes:

[Spock]

Isn't D the saddest key of all?
jus' wonderin'
j


I think it was D minor... For the song "Lick My Love Pump"

[magicchord]

I think it was D minor... For the song "Lick My Love Pump"

Ahhhhh..........
Dm - Bb - Am - G
Just lines..............intertwining............

[dnafe]

I seen two of these cat's in action...nothing to write home to mother about.

:grin:

[dnafe]

I think it was D minor... For the song "Lick My Love Pump"

I'm sorry Spock, if we're talking about Team Womb II the D(ick) would have to be major

:grin:

[malice]

I propose "Lick my Telefunken U47 long body", in Dee mayna'

malice

[Mister G.]

ha! I have a file here from CAPE_II_TEAMheadbang :D

slipperman playing the drums AND SINGs!:D :D

sorry guys.. we are nailed.. I will go home now.. :Yawn: :Yawn: :lol:

[Watershed]

ha! I have a file here from CAPE_II_TEAMheadbang :D

slipperman playing the drums AND SINGs!:D :D

Now that's just teasing if you're not posting it :very happy:

[sqkychair]

Trazan has posted a song idea in the key of D.

Trazan,
Have you copyrighted this yet? I hope not because I want to steal it for my own use whenever I am plugged into a tuner.

[Unfcknblvbl]

Notice how I completely ignore the warm and wet streaking feeling going down my thighs as I discover our song will consist of one note and one word. This is the mark of a good, nay phenomenal pointman. Watch and learn as I await, wondering privately if I'll ever live down the shame that is about to overwhelm me, all by some anonymous guy on the internet with the alias of a glorified Anteater.

Don't sweat it, Mixie, it's minimalism at its best. Don't let his harsh words bring you down, Aardy, I for one cannot wait for what I'm sure will be a masterpiece...

[MacGregor]

Don't sweat it, Mixie, it's minimalism at its best. Don't let his harsh words bring you down, Aardy, I for one cannot wait for what I'm sure will be a masterpiece...

Bah, I think Mixie plays a bit with the competition.
I bet they already have lots of notes, and maybe even another
word.

My crystal ball tells me that GolfVark sent in the demo way
before his vacation.
Smart ass bluffers, all of them.

Mac

[Charles Dye]

Let's call the song "Parody Hurts." Or in your case Paro "D" Hurts.

U mean "Paro D Hertz" dontcha?

[fizbin]

Bah, I think Mixie plays a bit with the competition.
I bet they already have lots of notes, and maybe even another
word.

My crystal ball tells me that GolfVark sent in the demo way
before his vacation.
Smart ass bluffers, all of them.

Mac

My suspicion too. I believe there is much going on that we are not aware of. Word on the street is that there is not only the D note, but possibly A and F# as well.

fizbin

[MacGregor]

I think it was a fuckin brilliant idea from the competition to give
two cheap video cameras to the kids to play around with.

Aardykid and Mixerboy are now happily filming their studio interior
instead of writing that killer-D-song.

Can we please have a making-of of the 'making-of'?

MacSpielberg

[Mixerman]

I think it was a fuckin brilliant idea from the competition to give
two cheap video cameras to the kids to play around with.

Aardykid and Mixerboy are now happily filming their studio interior
instead of writing that killer-D-song.

Can we please have a making-of of the 'making-of'?

MacSpielberg

My video camera ain't cheap.

It's inexpensive.

Mixerman

[clicktrack]

I laughed...


I cried...


...and then I saw those big-ass gamey feet sittin up there on the console...


...and then I just wanted to puke...

:)

[Trazan]

...and then I saw those big-ass gamey feet sittin up there on the console...


...and then I just wanted to puke...

:)

So, you imagined what sucking on them would be like?


:Surprised:

[Unfcknblvbl]

So, you imagined what sucking on them would be like?

:Surprised:

Okay...that made me throw up in my mouth. Thanks, Traz.

[jerryskid]

Okay...that made me throw up in my mouth. Thanks, Traz.

Better than throwing up in someone else's mouth.......:Wink:

[clicktrack]

Better than throwing up in someone else's mouth.......:Wink:

Ahh...the definition of TRUE LOVE...

(Where's the "GOING DOWN" button when you need it?!?)

[Watershed]

Ahh...the definition of TRUE LOVE...

(Where's the "GOING DOWN" button when you need it?!?)

hahaha, i just laughed so hard, I think a little bit of wee came out! :Uh oh:

[Smileyblue]

hahaha, i just laughed so hard, I think a little bit of wee came out! :Uh oh:

ahhh thanks for sharing, though I think this was a little TMI, don't you???:Uh oh:

LMAO

[MacGregor]

ahhh thanks for sharing, though I think this was a little TMI, don't you???:Uh oh:

LMAO

So, we've seen Aardvark's hand, listened to Goes' voice and had
a closer look at Mixerman's feet.

What part of the human anatomy is Slipperman going to show?

MacCurious

[Watershed]

What part of the human anatomy is Slipperman going to show?

Eewwww, please don't let it be his codpiece :icon_eek:

[Unfcknblvbl]

So, we've seen Aardvark's hand, listened to Goes' voice and had a closer look at Mixerman's feet.



Needed more cowbell.




.

[ella]

Gee, Mr. Slip, I'm not sure which is worse.

The fact that someone filmed that, or the fact that I just spent one minute thirty nine seconds watching it.

[fizbin]

Slippy is the warden in dog prison. They sure made that little guy their bitch didn't they?

:icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek: :icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek: :icon_eek::icon_eek:
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/POLITICS/03/04/coulter.edwards/storyvert.coulter.ed.gi.jpg
:icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek: :icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek: :icon_eek::icon_eek:

[Anduin]

Well, it looks like Trazan is out of the game. He opted out of our Team Omen with only 2 days remaining before the tracking deadline and, obviously, no time to get a replacement. Said he was too busy. Being that life is so hectic, that can only mean he's quit Team Womb as well. I hope Mixerman isn't too annoyed at Traz for dropping the ball like that. Leaving them with no guitarist. He certainly left Team Omen in the lurch.

[Goes211]

Not that Trazan needs any defending, but I'm quite sure that's not the whole story...

[sqkychair]

I would estimate that 99% of CAPE participants are capable guitarists.
Of course 0% are better than trazan. It's kind of late in the game, but maybe somebody here could help a team out?

Trazan has done it for others in the past.

[Trazan]

Well, it looks like Trazan is out of the game. He opted out of our Team Omen with only 2 days remaining before the tracking deadline and, obviously, no time to get a replacement. Said he was too busy. Being that life is so hectic, that can only mean he's quit Team Womb as well. I hope Mixerman isn't too annoyed at Traz for dropping the ball like that. Leaving them with no guitarist. He certainly left Team Omen in the lurch.

Man, you're something else...

Why was I not able to make the deadline, Anduin? When did your drums - which I and the rest of the group needed to arrange and track our parts to - appear?

[seagate]

Man, you're something else...

Why was I not able to make the deadline, Anduin? When did your drums - which I and the rest of the group needed to arrange and track our parts to - appear?

Ouch...

[Anduin]

Why was I not able to make the deadline,

Since you haven't told us, I can't refresh your memory.

[Goes211]

Since you haven't told us, I can't refresh your memory.

Can you refresh our memory on the part you do know about ?
I mean the part about when your drum tracks did appear ?

[Fulcrum]

Since Anduin was kind enough to share his Trazan story, I thought that perhaps I would share mine.

Trazan took my CAPE III song, which was pretty much a finished product as far as I was concerned (I'm an auteur-- sue me), disassembled it, and reassembled it in astonishing ways that I would never have thought of on my own. The song was better for it, and everybody worked their asses off to do it justice.

If it existed, a band full of Trazans would be a formidable thing indeed, and even if they don't go to the top of the charts we could be assured of outstanding, if not timeless, music.

So Anduin, what exactly did you hope to gain by posting that? Not just here but upstairs in the MM/SM/AV forum? I'm sure I'm not the only one who gave you more credit than to take this out into the open this way.

[David Aurora]

holy fuck, cross posting of cuntyness. anduin, dude........what the fuck are you thinking? give it up. in the womb you could build rome in 30 seconds flat with the resources, finding a guitarist aint no challenge

[E. Shaun]

Legends about Trazan abound.

It is said that there was once a poor, abandoned orphan in the streets of Oslo, freezing cold and starving. Trazan walked past with his guitar, strummed a chord, and suddenly a hot meal and a warm coat appeared, followed by a limousine carrying the orphan's rich uncle.

In times of drought, Trazan needs only hum a simple melody to bring about the rains.

When two nations are at war, a single whistle from Trazan will prompt a ceasefire. His yodels forge treaties.

Yes, Trazan is incredible. Know his name, and know the meaning of life. Have his friendship, and have the keys to the universe at your disposal.

[dwoz]

...and he doesn't make a half-shabby latte, either...for a northerner...


dwoz

[mousdrvr]

mmmmm no doubt. I agree Trazan is a Monster, but does anyone know if he has Swan Saving chops?


-mous

[mousdrvr]

holy fuck, cross posting of cuntyness. anduin, dude........what the fuck are you thinking? give it up. in the womb you could build rome in 30 seconds flat with the resources, finding a guitarist aint no challenge

The irony is that I know there are a few really good bored ones who are hanging out in the other thread :lol:


-mous

[chrisj]

Well thank you Mous (being one of the two)

Anduin: do you in fact need guitars still or is it more important to play the 'we're screwed' card? I may not be the hottest guitarist on mixerman.net but I'm one of the best save-your-ass-with-tracks-cut-in-thirty-minutes ones, and I have broadband.

Goes211 can vouch that I can track stuff under the gun to fit with a desired outcome.

I'm going to go feed the cats and fix dinner and I'll check back. I can bump other stuff for you, conceivably have the tracks by morning if it was REALLY important to get them that fast- otherwise, tomorrow.

Only one condition: lay off Trazan. This year I was fortunate enough to have a killer, professional team. I've known situations where I was sorely put to not take the same option he took this time, and it's no joke. Essentially I think things must not have been organized enough, must have slipped, and now you either get no guitars or "captain midnight", that being whoever is willing to get a midnight call along the lines of 'help, we need tracks by morning!'. These things happen, that doesn't mean any particular person has to go along with 'em when they happen.

What's it gonna be? I'll check back. Don't assume Trazan couldn't track for Team Womb- maybe they were ready sooner, I don't know.

[seagate]

I'm quite happy to lay down some gitar as well...

Bring it on!

[Anduin]

Thanks to everybody who offered to track guitars for Omen. We greatly appreciate it. Not sure what the rules say about more submissions after the deadline.



Thing is, if somebody lets you down in a big way, getting annoyed about it and venting is a pretty reasonable thing to do. Anybody who claims differently is either a liar or an angel.

Months of work and several people are involved in this case. It's not about chops. It's not about stories of hyperbolic grandiose acts of magic. It's not just a matter of one person opting out; it's an issue of one person's decision affecting a group in a negative way. It's about giving a shit about other people's time and effort. It's about being part of a synergistic team. It's about being reliable and true to your promises.

And it's also about biting off more than you can chew and learning about the concepts of advanced planning and time management. The May 1 deadline was no surprise to anybody.

[chrisj]

OK, I call that an answer. Too bad it's option number 2... are you SURE you want to take that road? I referred to it as 'play the we're screwed card' (which is pretty unsympathetic) for a reason...

You can talk about knowing what the deadline is, but you need to understand something about the people involved here. I've seen E. Shaun (who SET the deadline) talking silliness about Trazan's magic powers in these threads- trying to lighten things up, speak well of Trazan in a way that relieves the tension. This is the guy who would be ruling your team out of bounds. Which do you honestly think matters more to people around here- including _professional_ people and professional trouble-resolvers like E- whether a particular team produces a result on the exact day specified (the final day hasn't even passed yet! This is a convenience deadline so that things like this don't happen to the mixers!)...

...or whether the people are able to work together, rise above whatever troubles beset them, and come up with A SONG?

I've worked with E. Shaun before in troubled situations, and I think I have a rough idea of where his priorities are at, and what CaPE is about. Let's assume that in this situation, E would encourage you to cooperate with whoever is offering help, and produce a track anyhow, whether or not it is exactly on deadline (may still make the mixing deadline if Fletcher is able to deal with this, or possibly you'd be forced to use someone else if he doesn't want to deal with this situation).

If that is so- I'll ask once more, because time's a wastin'. Do you want me to track some guitars for your team? (or, Seagate or anyone else who's specifically said they would do it, which pretty much implies they can start right away- I don't think you're in a position to hold try-outs for the part.)

Ask for help- or play screwed card? Dude, it is only May 2nd.

[Johnny]

A whole lot of us here are working professionals, and that's always got to take precedence, as do personal or family matters. If something comes up, it just does.

[Fulcrum]

Dammit Mousdrvr, you beat me to it!

[Mixerman]

Thanks to everybody who offered to track guitars for Omen. We greatly appreciate it. Not sure what the rules say about more submissions after the deadline.

Thing is, if somebody lets you down in a big way, getting annoyed about it and venting is a pretty reasonable thing to do. Anybody who claims differently is either a liar or an angel.

Except, you're clearly only telling a tiny little part of the story.

I've had to bow out of CAPEs at the last minute. It happens. Sometimes I have time to do it. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes, timing sucks. The last CAPE, I rode my team like a broken mule to get the project done. The reason? So, we'd be guaranteed to finish it with our team intact. But then, I know how things can come up.

Some off the people here are hobbyists. Some are professionals. It is unreasonable to expect anyone to complete CAPE under any and all circumstances. This is a recreational event. If someone has to drop out, we can get you another person to fill in. That's been evidenced here already. But to smear a guy like this is not only childish, but completely arrogant and unreasonable.

As it turns out, we're not going to get a TEAM WOMB song out at all this time around. Aardy got swamped. I got swamped. Goes got swamped. Slippy is swamped. Trazan is swamped. Malice is on tour. We were going to do the whole thing publicly but couldn't even get started! Shit happens.

Months of work and several people are involved in this case. It's not about chops. It's not about stories of hyperbolic grandiose acts of magic. It's not just a matter of one person opting out; it's an issue of one person's decision affecting a group in a negative way.

Boo fucking hoo.

It's about giving a shit about other people's time and effort. It's about being part of a synergistic team. It's about being reliable and true to your promises.

No. It's about life, and not taking all this shit so seriously, that you would smear a person because they somehow inconvenienced you, in what is supposed to be a team effort. On a team, if someone can't hold up their part, for WHATEVER reason, then the TEAM needs to pick up the slack.

And it's also about biting off more than you can chew and learning about the concepts of advanced planning and time management. The May 1 deadline was no surprise to anybody.

I was called in 1996 to mix a Counting Crow's album. They wanted me to fly out to New York THAT day to start mixing. As it turns out, I had to turn it down because my baby was due, and I have been there to catch each and every one of my babies (I have 13 so far). But had I been on a CAPE team at the time, my team would have been shit outta luck. In fact, that happened to my first CAPE team. I figured to have a little break between sessions, and ended up working straight through unexpectedly. This CAPE, I had to put my whip away because a close relative is very sick. That's life, dude. Now you need to go and get a life of your own and dump this attitude that the world is here to serve you.

It's not.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[mousdrvr]

Dammit Mousdrvr, you beat me to it!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I KNEW if I wasn't fast about it you'd beat me. It was just such a slow ball.


-mous

[nomad]

I have been there to catch each and every one of my babies (I have 13 so far).





I had to put my whip away...




Ya' don't say.




Just couldn't stand playin' second fiddle to Dwoz, could ya'?

:lol:

[nomad]

Mommy, mommy, my uterus hurts. Ow, make it stop.




Yawn.

Puberty sucks.

[sqkychair]

13 babies!

Yikes!

You've figured out what's causing that right?

[Scodiddly]

Well, to shed a little light from my own perspective as a team member...

Trazan put together some very cool guitar stuff that formed the backbone of our tracking - we all added parts to his original acoustic tracks, then started replacing our parts with final parts. But we're kind of stuck without his acoustic guitar parts that made up the intro, outro, etc. Actually I think we're cool if we can get the .wav files from Trazan - at the worst our mixer might need to edit a bit to make them fit with the final tracks.

Not being able to do any final tracking - I can understand that. Not being able to transfer some files... well, it would kind of suck if it's that bad.

[Anduin]

I've had to bow out of CAPEs at the last minute....As it turns out, we're not going to get a TEAM WOMB song out at all this time around.


Well that's a drag! I'm sure I'm not the only one around here who was anticipating another Womb epic from you guys. Last year you found that perfect balance of hilarity and musicality.


...I have been there to catch each and every one of my babies (I have 13 so far).

Holy Virility, Batman! Are you serious?! Congratulations!

[Anduin]

...out of the game...

... play the...card...

Excellent continuation of the metaphor. Gold star for you! Or, in this case, rep points.

[tomhansen]

Not being able to do any final tracking - I can understand that. Not being able to transfer some files... well, it would kind of suck if it's that bad.

As yet another member of the Omen team, I agree with Sco it that is sucks not to have the wavs.

As the second fiddle on the team I was not prepared to do what he did... which was magic! Swampy acoustic slide work that few can pull off) His rearrangement of the song was genius too.

But I think our team is on track now and we'll be getting a great product in the end.

[Fulcrum]

As it turns out, we're not going to get a TEAM WOMB song out at all this time around. Aardy got swamped. I got swamped. Goes got swamped. Slippy is swamped. Trazan is swamped. Malice is on tour. We were going to do the whole thing publicly but couldn't even get started! Shit happens.

And may I take this opportunity to say that I also got swamped with Real Life And Music.

[bunnerabb]

I move twice a year, every April and Nov., had no bandwidth for a week, suffered a complete power outage on a fucking island, had to leave my car in the hood and I managed to turn in what are usable tracks according to our mixer.

So what does that mean?

It means I was SOMEWHAT INCONVENIENCED.

That's easy. I don't think that the people who had to bail, this year, did so because they were slightly inconvenienced. They probably had a whole lot of shit to do that precluded them getting their end of things done.

That happens.

If I had any semblance of the hectic sort of life that pros like Mixerman, Traz, Aardy, etc, had.. I probably wouldn't even sign up for this thing.

Pick up the olive branch, get some tracks and carry on. Anybody who has done either live or recording professionally has the same credo:

"It is what it is."

And it gets done how it gets done.

[rockdart]

wow.

I see some inconsitencies here.

I see "MUST" in the 'guidelines', but perhaps that should be worded to say "Strongly Suggest"?

I see people being empathetic when the dealings outside of the Womb go to shit. Especially when the pedalstons post rants.

The thing is, this business is 3 parts wading through bullshit and 1 part enough pay off to neutralize the 3 parts of bullshit. Everyone's been screwed in some way in this business.

Because we've ALL been through it, anyone who has to drop what they've signed up to do feels really bad about having to do so.

But that doesn't mean that the people who had trust, faith and reliance upon someone who had to drop, don't get another rehash of the bitter disappointments that have occurred. This isn't some safety area, but at the same time, there's a kinship here that brings you closer to the members of the community than those in our everyday dealings, so the expectation for disappointment is lessened and the guard against disappointment drops.

"I understand that you must be pretty disappointed, but there's avenues that you can take to fix the situation" is by far more constructive, than "boo-fucking-hoo". Or Mrs Ventura, Pet Detective, talking with her uterus. How nice.

Of course, by the guidelines own framework; "Must" becomes a seemingly insurmountable hurdle (note, that further along, there is an avenue by which hurdles may be overcome).

My point here is this: I completely understand both sides of this and there is disappointment on both sides. However, its been said before, that if you cannot complete your commitment, that's not very cool and it should be avoided at all cost. The message I'm seeing is, that if your team gets screwed by being overcome by events, too fucking bad.

And that attitude would make some wonder if they'd even want to participate in the future, or if participating, lessen the individuals need of commitment and obligation to their team.

I'm not in it this time around because I knew there was other commitments I had that would detract from being able to put the right amount of focus on meeting my commitments where CAPE is concerned. So, I'm just an outside observer right now and see someone getting piled upon when all that was needed was a bit of empathy and direction for recourse. Screwed x 2.

And to that: wow.

Life happens. We all know that. People join communities for support. Sometimes here I wonder if you get that only if you're part of the elite... and if those folks get to walk in a different set of mores (môr'āz').

Affectionately yours,
Lou Cypher

[bunnerabb]

Both sides of this have obvious merit, but I would like to add that, if it were the case that I couldn't deliver the goods because more pressing matters had arose that I would expect the SAME sort of understanding and consideration that I am suggesting be proffered to the more high profile members of this forum.

[chrisj]

And that attitude would make some wonder if they'd even want to participate in the future, or if participating, lessen the individuals need of commitment and obligation to their team.

Nah- "I would rather hang myself from a chandelier by my testicles rather than work with you. We're going to bring in a guy who will re-record all your tracks" is the attitude you're thinking of, that would make one wonder "what am I hoping to accomplish by putting up with this behavior in the interests of delivering a song?"

That was said to me once (NOT this year!), and I survived it, and none of my tracks were re-recorded either ;) I don't see anybody saying anything to anybody that's half so negative as that here, so maybe things might blow over?

PS: I didn't suck QUITE as bad as that, on that occasion. There were levels within levels going on there. I think also this Team Omen situation isn't as complicated... just let it go, if you're done with getting tracks. There's always some kind of problem, it's where you go with it that matters.

[rockdart]

Dude - I agree. Being shit on enough times in this business and I think that having options in your back pocket to pull from is just natural at this point. At least for me.

Having been on both sides of the shitting, recourse for both situations apply. If I find that I'm OBE (overcome by events), I will find options for the people I'm letting down, as much as having options in case I'm let down.

I didn't think you deserved the crap you got either, if that's any consolation.

But, there's lessons in this somewhere and I just hope people are getting the right ones in the end.

[Mixerman]

My point here is this: I completely understand both sides of this and there is disappointment on both sides. However, its been said before, that if you cannot complete your commitment, that's not very cool and it should be avoided at all cost. The message I'm seeing is, that if your team gets screwed by being overcome by events, too fucking bad.

Let me ask you this: If you got prostate cancer and were told that you had one month to live, and you were told this the day before you are supposed to lay down your parts for CAPE, would you finish? Would you suck it up and deliver on your promise?

I'm not saying this is Trazan's reason. It's not! I'm just posing the question. And please don't argue a point I haven't made yet. Just give me the best answer that you can imagine to this hypothetical situation

Mixerman

[rockdart]

Let me ask you this: If you got prostate cancer and were told that you had one month to live, and you were told this the day before you are supposed to lay down your parts for CAPE, would you finish? Would you suck it up and deliver on your promise?

I'm not saying this is Trazan's reason. It's not! I'm just posing the question. And please don't argue a point I haven't made yet. Just give me the best answer that you can imagine to this hypothetical situation

Mixerman

Yes. I would. Because I would know that all my friends in the community that I participated in would be able to listen to the song and think of me and how much it meant for me to leave behind something for them to remember me. Knowing it might be one of the last things I leave behind, I would endeavor even more than normal to make it the last best thing.

Now can I argue the point you haven't made just yet? J/K :lol:

[MacGregor]

Yes. I would. Because I would know that all my friends in the community that I participated in would be able to listen to the song and think of me and how much it meant for me to leave behind something for them to remember me. Knowing it might be one of the last things I leave behind, I would endeavor even more than normal to make it the last best thing.

Now can I argue the point you haven't made just yet? J/K :lol:

That's a good and valid point, but would you mentally be able to
deliver something at all? Mindset and stuff?

Mac

[rockdart]

I believe I would. After I woke up one morning (after having been out celebrating the final touches on putting my band together) and receiving a voice mail that one of my best friends died in child birth, writing one of the best songs I've ever written was a natural thing for me to do. Without music, I wouldn't be anything near what I am, so my guitar would probably be the first thing I'd reach for after receiving that kind of news.

Have you guys been talking to my Dr or something?

[bunnerabb]

If you got prostate cancer and were told that you had one month to live, and you were told this the day before you are supposed to lay down your parts for CAPE, would you finish?

Why not?

It ain't like one would have a whole hell of a lot of time doing anything else that would live beyond one's years, outside of picking out some marble.

[bunnerabb]

That's a good and valid point, but would you mentally be able to deliver something at all? Mindset and stuff?

I think I would.

Just because you can hear the doorbell don't mean yer have to run around with a chicken like your head cut off.

Finish what you were doing and then answer the bell.

Once you aren't offended by your own mortality, the rest of life is staggeringly easy.

[seagate]

Once you aren't offended by your own mortality, the rest of life is staggeringly easy.

Sig line material!!!

[ella]

Let me ask you this: If you got prostate cancer and were told that you had one month to live, and you were told this the day before you are supposed to lay down your parts for CAPE, would you finish? Would you suck it up and deliver on your promise?

I'm not saying this is Trazan's reason. It's not! I'm just posing the question. And please don't argue a point I haven't made yet. Just give me the best answer that you can imagine to this hypothetical situation

Mixerman

.........................

III. All drop-outs, no-shows and unresolved disputes should be brought to my attention.

This is key. There are bound to be fervent discussions about aspects of each project, but you can email me at e_shaun@uniserve.com or PM me if there are any disputes that you can’t resolve within the team in a timely fashion. That's what I'm here for. If a member drops out or isn’t pulling his or her weight in the assigned role, please contact me so that I can help deal with it and re-assign members or add a substitute if necessary. It is almost inevitable that this will happen on occasion due to circumstances beyond a team member’s control. As a result, I’d like to be kept in the loop on these sorts of problems so that I can help to resolve them.

As mentioned in the CAPE Guidelines, we ask that by way of checking in, you virtually sign the following agreement by writing (in these words) "I agree to the Terms of CAPE participation." It will be the responsibility of the Point Man to ensure that all team members do so by no later than 23:59 on February 3rd. If there are still members who have not signed by this time, I urge the Point Man to contact either myself, or one of the Womb Administrators.

Beyond that, thank you for your participation…and have fun!


Terms of CAPE participation:

1. I accept and I agree to follow the CAPE Guidelines.

Just curious, but does any of the above play into the current debate? Not just this instance but generally, for the entire CAPE and all who sign on.

[Mixerman]

Yes. I would. Because I would know that all my friends in the community that I participated in would be able to listen to the song and think of me and how much it meant for me to leave behind something for them to remember me. Knowing it might be one of the last things I leave behind, I would endeavor even more than normal to make it the last best thing.

Now can I argue the point you haven't made just yet? J/K :lol:

Okay. So you'd stick it out through Cancer, and the juicing and Chemo, because certainly you're not going to take a death sentence from a Doctor.

So, here is my next question.

Let's say you lost your job a week into CAPE. And just in case you have decent reserves in the bank, let's say the government froze your account because somehow you are wrongfully suspected of Tax Evasion or terrorist activity. You're now working two jobs a day just to make ends meet. 16 hours a day. And you have to pay a lawyer to fight the wrongful freezing of your assets. As if that's not enough, your wife and/or girlfriend left you. Your parents and/or your wife's parents died in a horrible freak car accident. If you have kids, they all came down with the bubonic plague. Given this scenario, would you finish CAPE or ask politely to bow out?

I'm still not ready to make my point yet, so please just address the scenario above. And for the record, this is not what happened to Trazan either.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[QweziRider]

My point here is this: I completely understand both sides of this and there is disappointment on both sides. However, its been said before, that if you cannot complete your commitment, that's not very cool and it should be avoided at all cost. The message I'm seeing is, that if your team gets screwed by being overcome by events, too fucking bad.
I don't at all see it as a case of "too fucking bad". In fact, if things do fall apart in one manner or another, the whole thing, to me, suddenly can become an education in "how the hell can we best pull this off in light of a changed landscape." How can those that remain find a way to pull this out of their ass and not cast stones at the same time? Rising above it all, in a manner of speaking.

Maybe I'm just naive, but it doesn't have to go by the blue print of rules to become a fulfilling and positive project.

[rockdart]

"or if a meteor hit or if the bird flu became rampant or.... (fill in with hypothetical catostrophic event)"

Really dude. Yes, we all understand what you're getting at. Sorry, I don't have time for games where people can move the goalposts to make their point.

Make it already. It's already been pointed out that everyone's empathetic to both sides, but to say "boo fucking hoo" rather than stepping up and finding a decent recourse, to me, is one huge BULLSHIT flag.

And I have no problem calling bullshit, where EVER I see it.

Airing this in public might not have been the best course of action, but if we can get over the chest thumping part of being men, we can get to our other redeeming quality - being problem solvers. And then there's the human quality both genders share that our ancestors helped develop and pass on to us: empathy.

Also, as I stated prior, I would come to the table with options available. That's me. I understand other people work differently - but the best possible outcome should always be considered and looked for.

Being your best doesn't guarantee success, but not trying guarantees failure.

[bunnerabb]

Trick question.

No bubonic plague.

[chrisj]

Bits of it are what happened to me. My wife left me, taking my stepkid (I'd devoted my life to the both of them for the last three years and their presence was a huge motivator to get out there and risk doing stuff, risk criticism) and I had to get a lawyer to ensure I didn't lose my home. And, I lost use of her car and had to get another, and get it legal in Vermont. All against the background of an echoingly empty house 'cos she had the kid's Dad remove pretty much everything in it- which he did, and I let him, because she was holding the kid hostage and he wanted to see his child again. The way things have gone, I don't think I'll be able to say the same.

Let's not get carried away with hypotheticals here, making up test cases for the sake of argument. Reality is enough.

I finished my CaPE tracking- including trying to do low harmony vocals even though I never got the lead vocals to do them to and had to do them to the guide tracks. (reminiscent of Trazan's roadblock!) Will the vox that I did, which I didn't have the 'real' tracks to do them to, go on the mix? Damfino, that's not my problem. They can be discarded if they don't work in the mix, I did 'em because I thought it would be cool, maybe they'll work somewhere.

I should add that it's easy to finish your CaPE tracking in the middle of complete turmoil if the turmoil has to do with being abandoned and you have shitloads of time on your hands, right? Not that I haven't been frantically busy but this year CaPE has been my refuge. I have the best team ever, I'm a huge fan of everybody in it and have had a blast working with everyone, and I've had loads of supportiveness from team members which I've tried to return in spades- any of them could call me up with a 'help, need a track by 7 tomorrow morning' and I'd scramble to help them.

I've always done that.

But there have been times when the team I was on was a headache and it was more determination that kept me going, with not a lot to show for it in the end. When everything's a hassle and a fight, it starts to seem pretty pointless and there does come a time when it is a legitimate choice to say 'you aren't worth this amount of heartache'. You can always say that if you're okay with taking the consequences. Not everybody has to like you.

I don't think it's about being able to come through in desperate circumstances- that's possible for a lot of people. I think it's about the simple fact that loyalty is earned- and there are times when it's taken for granted. Talking about 'would you track if you broke both your arms and were standing in a bucket of piranha' is beside the point- that's bravado- the question becomes:

"What would I have to do to get people to WANT to perform at their very best for me, no matter what the hardships?"

:D ...and if you can answer that, you can be a proper producer. If you're not interested in answering that, better have backup, because you don't consider it useful to think about what the people working for you want :)

It always amazes me how CaPE is such a microcosm of the Real World of professional music. There are so many things to learn- and it's amazing how few of them have to do with being able to perform on an instrument or console. I still have lots to learn and every time I get enough of a spanking from a Wombian that I'm pissed off and upset- not constantly, but it happens- it's a gift, because they've pointed out something I'm fucking up.

[dikledoux]

I like Mixerman's quiz. You guys have no patience. :lol:

To situation 1 - yeah prolly - because I'd enjoy it and wouldn't car if some other stuff slipped cuz I only had a month to live so I'd do what I want to.

To situation 2 - no, prolly not - because I'd have a ton of shit to deal with that I really couldn't drop and would figure I'd get another opportunity in the future.

And since you're all dying to know... my take on this situation (and others like this in the past) is that no matter what goes wrong on a team, whining about it in the public forum is asking for a beatdown. Whether you're right or wrong. It woulda been better to go for direct contact.

dik

[Smileyblue]

And since you're all dying to know... my take on this situation (and others like this in the past) is that no matter what goes wrong on a team, whining about it in the public forum is asking for a beatdown. Whether you're right or wrong. It woulda been better to go for direct contact.

dik

A-fucking-men

Especially since Trazan has not told the general public the reason that he dropped out, even though he gave us a very big hint, nor should he have to.

The rules state, as quoted by Ella, that if people have a dispute or people dropping out, they need to contact E-shaun and he will deal with it in private......

It is no one else's business unless you are on the team effected......end of story.

On a side note: I think it is just great that people stepped up in this thread to try and help you out of your situation.

[E. Shaun]

Just curious, but does any of the above play into the current debate? Not just this instance but generally, for the entire CAPE and all who sign on.

For the record, the first I heard of any schism (besides hearing from Carlo that Trazan had dropped out) in Team Omen was when I saw both of Anduin's threads. In other words...I wasn't contacted, no, and from what I can gather, none of the admin were either until the whole thing became the public eyesore it is now.

It might be a moot point, but honestly...in past CAPEs, a few suggestions from an outsider have helped teams considerably. That's why it's mentioned so prominently in the guidelines thread that any lingering disputes should be brought up in the manner suggested.

[seagate]

Maybe the admins should hit the delete button on this thread, it serves no purpose other than potentially putting off any newbies from signing up next time around...

2 cents worth right there...

sea

[E. Shaun]

Nah. These things happen, and there's a lot of GOOD in this thread as well. We're all just people, working together, writing together... To err is human. Might as well have threads about it too.

[bunnerabb]

...


http://www.picvault.info/images/537043236_drama.jpg

[dwoz]

You know, the Omens were there from the start, if you had the presence of mind to look...


:lol: :lol: :lol:


And since E-Shaun just used the word "schism", I'm going to announce that Team Hinterland's tune is actually ABOUT team Omen.

Don't ask me how I knew back on feb 12 when I was writing the tune....

dwoz

[Mixerpuppet]

It was my understanding that CaPE was a collaborative experiment. Experiments don't always work and sometimes a mutated freak comes out of it.

Most of the folks I know wouldn't drop out just for any old reason and sometimes the reasons are too personal to air out in a public forum.

I understand people being disappointed because they have invested time, talent and emotion into the project. People will handle these things differently and we should be respectful how each one handles the difficulties in life.

I would expect more compassion and understanding from such an emotional lot.

Personally I'd rather hear that Team Womb II is too busy to complete the task rather than someone died or has some terminal illness.

Also, CaPE does not put food on the table so when working folks have to stick to real life priorities I'm not going to give them a a ration of complaints. I might joke about it after the fact as long as I know it's not hurtful to that person.

I was working overtime at work and got severe bronchitis where my coughing spasms tore some cartilage by my sternum. I gave what I could with what I had. But I got good vibes when another team member lost power for several days and people stepped up to help in whatever way they could, so if I couldn't make it, I knew the Project would keep going.

I had to ask myself the question whether dropping out would be helpful or hurtful. The answer is still out there... Sometimes not doing something is the best thing you can do.

Everytime we do this CaPE thing, something will go wrong, but you will still learn valuable skills in communication, networking and friendship.

Every CaPE we get threads like these even though it's been frowned upon everytime...

[E. Shaun]

And since E-Shaun just used the word "schism", I'm going to announce that Team Hinterland's tune is actually ABOUT team Omen.

That's funny, Team Vagabond's tune is called "Jism" and it's about Team Conception.

[E. Shaun]

I was working overtime at work and got severe bronchitis where my coughing spasms tore some cartilage by my sternum. I gave what I could with what I had.

You should have been the vocalist.

Oh, if foresight were only 20/20...

[QweziRider]

That's funny, Team Vagabond's tune is called "Jism" and it's about Team Conception.
*SLPORK!!!* Now I know what to do with that damn pasky mandolin part!

[Mixerman]

"or if a meteor hit or if the bird flu became rampant or.... (fill in with hypothetical catostrophic event)"

Really dude. Yes, we all understand what you're getting at. Sorry, I don't have time for games where people can move the goalposts to make their point.

Ah. I see. You just don't have a sense of humor!

Make it already. It's already been pointed out that everyone's empathetic to both sides, but to say "boo fucking hoo" rather than stepping up and finding a decent recourse, to me, is one huge BULLSHIT flag.

And I have no problem calling bullshit, where EVER I see it.

Airing this in public might not have been the best course of action, but if we can get over the chest thumping part of being men, we can get to our other redeeming quality - being problem solvers. And then there's the human quality both genders share that our ancestors helped develop and pass on to us: empathy.

Also, as I stated prior, I would come to the table with options available. That's me. I understand other people work differently - but the best possible outcome should always be considered and looked for.

Being your best doesn't guarantee success, but not trying guarantees failure.Call all the bullshit you want, my man. But I can assure you, you're calling it on the wrong person. Here's why: If a team member drops out, all the point man has to do is contact EShaun. He'll find a replacement, no matter at what point in the process the drop out occurs. End of story. Posting like a whiney cunt (thanks Fletcher) only serves to promote more internet drama. And it's not even good drama. I mean, how much simpler could it be to PM the guy running the CAPE to help with the matter? Yeah, that's super difficult. I know.

The fact is, shit happens in life. I've had session players cancel on me at the last moment because of personal problems. What do you think I do when that happens? Complain on the internet? or call the A&R Mook and ask him to help me find someone else--and pronto?

Hint: It's the latter.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[Mixerman]

I like Mixerman's quiz. You guys have no patience. :lol:

To situation 1 - yeah prolly - because I'd enjoy it and wouldn't car if some other stuff slipped cuz I only had a month to live so I'd do what I want to.

To situation 2 - no, prolly not - because I'd have a ton of shit to deal with that I really couldn't drop and would figure I'd get another opportunity in the future.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere.

So Dik, since you're willing to work with me on this, here is my next question.

If a teammate dropped out because of situation one (above), would you feel that this was an acceptable excuse for dropping out?

How about situation two?

Thanks for helping me out with this Dik. I really appreciate it.

Mixerman

[ella]

Ya know, I've had to drop out of many gigs. Like it was said before, shit happens. When I call the people who will be affected, I inform them of my inability to make the gig, then tell them who I have lined up to replace me and assure them that the replacement is competent and familiar with the material so it won't be noticeable to anyone but the band. That's how it works when I agree to do something. That is being professional, regardless of whether money changes hands or not.

Nobody is suggesting that a team member should cut the track with the last remaining ounce of blood that hasn't gushed from their severed carotid artery. Just use the system that exists (as outlined in the CAPE guidelines) to get a replacement. Don't disappear without a word to the team, call E. Shaun and let him do what he can to fix up the situation and get someone in to cover.

That's what we all agreed to do when we signed on. That's what should have happened here.

[E. Shaun]

Don't disappear without a word to the team, call E. Shaun and let him do what he can to fix up the situation and get someone in to cover.


Thanks Ella.

Not to hammer home your point, but...there were nine folks in the "CAPE Reserve Corps." Know how many of them were used thanks to folks notifying me of drop-outs? Two. For the quantum physicists out there, that leaves seven people who missed the sign up deadline and really, really wanted to be used somewhere, somehow.

Oh yes...and by the way...

Six of them are guitarists.

[bunnerabb]

Billy Pettijohn had a gig at a house I was mixing. He fronted a Doors cover band.

His mom died.

He buried his mom, got on a plane, took a limo in, walked on stage, dropped two dilaudid, drank a glass of vodka and paved the place.

Astounding.

I've missed one gig in 32 years.

One.

Then again, this complete lack of regard for my own life is probably why I'm in OH.

It's all kind of subjective.

This ain't 700 motherfuckers with ticket stubs waiting. This is a collaborative experiment.

Any way you cut the bologna, the option was outlined in the rules and you didn't use it.

[Tim Halligan]

That's funny, Team Vagabond's tune is called "Jism" and it's about Team Conception.


Wow!

Talk about coicidences...

Team Conception's tune is called "Fuck" and it's dedicated to ekko...


:lol:



Cheers,
Tim

[Goes211]

... my take on this situation (and others like this in the past) is that no matter what goes wrong on a team, whining about it in the public forum is asking for a beatdown. Whether you're right or wrong. It woulda been better to go for direct contact.

dik

Agreed.
And I'll take it even further : it's very much ok to be pissed about the situation. Whining about it in 3 separate forums is not only poor form, i'ts also meant to hurt the other person. And that sucks.
In the time spent writing three posts, he coulda gotten in touch with e-Shaun and/or potential replacements.

[David Aurora]

Maybe the admins should hit the delete button on this thread, it serves no purpose other than potentially putting off any newbies from signing up next time around...

2 cents worth right there...

sea

dude.....shhhhh! i orchestrated this whole fucking thing to achieve exactly that! trazans under lock and key in my spare room until cary chilton exits the board....

Wow!

Talk about coicidences...

Team Conception's tune is called "Fuck" and it's dedicated to ekko...


:lol:



Cheers,
Tim

yeah, that ekko dickhead has a foul fucking mouth :lol:

let me say straight up, if some people are heroes thats fine. but there is shit in my life that would make me drop a cape team in under 3 seconds. no offense would be intended, and yeah in a spare minute id probably feel like a cunt. but, say for example my brother had problems and needed help. there wouldnt be a "sorry guys, cant do it, but ive organised this other dude. he has the charts, ive discussed directions with him....etc...", it would be "guys, shit going on, gotta bail. laters". at best. and anyone worth talking to on this forum would understand that if i drop out, its cause theres more important shit in my life, quit busting my balls, and replace me with the nearest fuckhead. if its at the last minute, thats unfortunate, but shit doesnt wait til you open an umbrella to hit the fan.

as far as im concerned, yeah, it is too fucking bad. move on. if im in a session, and a member doesnt show up, we find solutions, we get things done, and we save the bitching about the member for private conversations where we also start rumours about them having wierd diseases and shit. thats because we're constructive and 100% professional :lol: how many fucking offers to help were turned down in this one thread???

[MacGregor]

..."guys, shit going on, gotta bail. laters". at best. and anyone worth talking to on this forum would understand that if i drop out, its cause theres more important shit in my life, quit busting my balls, and replace me with the nearest fuckhead. if its at the last minute, thats unfortunate, but shit doesnt wait til you open an umbrella to hit the fan...


[Thread Hijacking mode=on]
David, while you're without a studio, have you ever considered a
career in writing lyrics for RAP people?
I can smell some talent here...
[Thread Hijacking mode=off]

Mac

[David Aurora]

hahahaha!

[Scodiddly]

So as it turns out, our mixer did indeed get Trazan's tracks. Chalk it up to poor communication - Traz didn't so much "drop out" as "not get to record polished final tracks".

[Goes211]

So as it turns out, our mixer did indeed get Trazan's tracks. Chalk it up to poor communication - Traz didn't so much "drop out" as "not get to record polished final tracks".

Well. Interesting turn of events.
Thanks for putting that into perspective, Sco.

[dikledoux]

...here is my next question.

If a teammate dropped out because of situation one (above), would you feel that this was an acceptable excuse for dropping out?

How about situation two?How would I feel? Hmmm...

Hard to say when the question becomes twice-hypothetically-removed. But I guess in either situation, first - I'd be disappointed that the person couldn't get their part done. Then I'd immediately start casting about within my team for ideas on how to resolve the issue and move on. It's a song, not open-heart surgery for GID's sake. And if not disappointing the team was such a big deal to me, I'd spend my time trying to find a way to work it out. In this instance, I'd quickly realize you can't swing a dead cat in this place without hitting several solid guitarists, and a feeling of overwhelming calm would overcome me, knowing that I could FIX the thing.

Then It'd dawn on me to wonder WHY said person couldn't do their piece and I'd likely start worrying about them and checking in on them until/unless I found out they were just screwing off and then I'd just figure I'd know what was coming next time I might have to deal with that person.

dik

[Fulcrum]

So as it turns out, our mixer did indeed get Trazan's tracks. Chalk it up to poor communication - Traz didn't so much "drop out" as "not get to record polished final tracks".

So, Anduin, you were saying...?

[Mixerman]

So as it turns out, our mixer did indeed get Trazan's tracks. Chalk it up to poor communication - Traz didn't so much "drop out" as "not get to record polished final tracks".

I can tell you from experience, Trazan's unpolished tracks will be better than 99% of anyone elses "polished final tracks."

The guy's a monster.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[rockdart]

So, the lesson is "when shit hits the fan, go back to the rules to find the correct course of action, get it worked out, keep your junk in your trunk and remain professional".


I think we were all getting there, though the roads we were taking came from different directions.

oh yeah - that several teams are writing songs about other teams... in the red light district! lmao. I can't wait to hear the results!

[Spock]

So, the lesson is "when shit hits the fan, go back to the rules to find the correct course of action, get it worked out, keep your junk in your trunk and remain professional".

I think we were all getting there, though the roads we were taking came from different directions.

This is not just related to CAPE but with just about any product or service you deal with. I don't care how good a product or company is, sooner or later something will go wrong. A defective product will get out the door, a reservation will not get made, etc.

To me the sign of super service or a pro is when something goes wrong how do they fix the problem.

[gbacklin]

I can tell you from experience, Trazan's unpolished tracks will be better than 99% of anyone elses "polished final tracks."

The guy's a monster.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

My thoughts exactly....

[Carlo]

Well...I'm glad ya'll got that off yer chest's...

1) PMed e shawn first off

2) didn't need any help

3) Tra's scratch tracks are the best I've ever heard!

4) Song's gonna be a bad-assed mofo.

...we're all warm-blooded animals.:Thumbsup:


I thought this was Team Womb 2's public forum?

[Scodiddly]

So, Anduin, you were saying...?

To be fair, Trazan did say something like "Sorry, but I'm dropping out" - about 2 days before the tracking deadline. It took a bit of time before I got a PM saying something to the effect of "yes, I did send my raw files to Fletcher".

[emtou2u]

the true, pure compliment in all of this is to Trazan and to the Womb...

it appears that both are extraordinary gifts (to the rest of us) in talent and venue and "some" had/have placed a lot of expectation on either their participation (Trazan) or community (Womb, CAPE)....therefore "some" experienced the following...













big expectations....................big let down


































medium expectations...................medium let down

























no expectations.............................no let down













the lesson here could be to trust, communicate and practice a bit more compassion....no?



now, back to the outcome i'm entirely ecstatic to experience....







the music!!!!!!! :Razz:

[MacGregor]

So, due to lack of audio content (Trazan was the only one to
deliver his guitar track in time) the 'Team Womb II CAPE video
deluxe' forum isn't visible anymore and Aardy tries to show Charles
Dye in Charles' own forum how to mix a decent song.

So far, so not so good.

Can I have my money back, please?

Mac

[Charles Dye]

So, due to lack of audio content (Trazan was the only one to
deliver his guitar track in time) the 'Team Womb II CAPE video
deluxe' forum isn't visible anymore and Aardy tries to show Charles
Dye in Charles' own forum how to mix a decent song.

So far, so not so good.

Can I have my money back, please?

Mac

Of course...

We'll give YOU (cuz yer special) double yer back.

[Spock]

Of course...

We'll give YOU (cuz yer special) double yer back.

Double of nothing is still nothing.

[Charles Dye]

CRAP... that Spock is a genius.

[Johnny]

Logic.

[MacGregor]

CRAP... that Spock is a genius.

Absolutely, Spook rox big times! 2 smart 4 us!

DyeSpeakMac

[Spock]

:lol::lol:

[El Cabron]

wow, this thread is amazing.

I ain't really been around these parts for a while, so I'm surprised to show up and find the pillory-ing is proceeding savagely.

I'll re-cap from the reading:

- Trazan is suffering from one, or possibly three life-threatening illnesses. I'm very sorry about that.

- the CaPE rules and deadlines really don't matter. They exist only to scare the newbies.

- You famous guys are really busy.

- Nobody should say anything bad in public unless they're a somebody. Then it's all good.


Is this about right?

Well, other than that, how's everybody been?

Eddie

[mousdrvr]

Well, other than that, how's everybody been?

Eddie

Little busy but not bad at all. How's it with you bro? :lol:

-mous

[El Cabron]

Little busy but not bad at all. How's it with you bro? :lol:

-mous

just chillaxing, baby.

Selling some old gear; wanna buy an ADAT? :icon_eek:
:lol:

Eddie

[Anduin]

- Nobody should say anything bad in public unless they're a somebody. Then it's all good.


Ha!

Well spotted.