Pre-conditioning guitar signals before they hit the amp.

[Brendo]

Line drivers, tube screamers, graphic EQ's... what do you do to heavy guitars before they hit the amp (if anything) and why - what do you find that this does for you.

Mostly I've been a straight guitar -> amp person for heavy sounds, but I'm beginning to think that maybe I should be doing some of this stuff. Ages ago I was running a homemade fuzz box with the tone 3/4 of the way to "icepick" and the gain all the way down in front of my Marshall to tighten up palm mutes, and also for quite some time I was running a graphic EQ in front of all my distortions... I've also played around with clean boosts in front of the lower gain channel of the amp.

[Knastratt]

A Koch Pedaltone in front of my UniValve is pure sonic bliss. So is my Piranha.

Cheers - Pär

[Brendo]

What's it do for you though that the amp doesn't do by itself?

[Knastratt]

What's it do for you though that the amp doesn't do by itself?

A lack of high-gain sweet toobes opposed to those I have. Two 12AT7 NOS Telefunken and a NOS Mullard is the best clean/blues sound I've heard. I'm looking for snagging some NOS 12AX7 and a NOS Tung Sol 6550 for heavier sounds.

So in the meantime - I have to put something in front to get metal. At least prior to the Eleven rack. :)

Cheers - Pär

[Brendo]

Fair enough.

Something I was wondering about is... over on the Andy Sneap forum everyone seems to run TS9's in front of their amps to create a mid hump to tighten up the bass - similar to what I was doing with the homebrew fuzz box. Is this something that exists outside of the Sneap forums?

[Keks]

over on the Andy Sneap forum everyone seems to run TS9's in front of their amps to create a mid hump to tighten up the bass - similar to what I was doing with the homebrew fuzz box. Is this something that exists outside of the Sneap forums?

Occasionally I use a TS7 to boost the front end of Amps,
and I modified it specifically to not have a mid hump.
Though I'm not sure if that is too exemplary...
All the best,
the keks

[chrisj]

Sure. I picked that up there. I have two pedals for that now- a generic not-vintage-or-fancy Tube Screamer, and I've also modded an MXR Distortion+ for the same purpose.

The deal with the TS is that it bumps the lows in a particular way but also adds this sort of glossy compressed quality. For certain types of sound it's very much a part of the tone and just directly using the amp isn't remotely similar.

If I liked it all that much I wouldn't have hotrodded an MXR pedal to do that... but the general concept, I'm totally down with now :)

[otek]

If I use distortion pedals it is typically through the clean channel of the amp, basically letting the pedal and the amp's input stage create the distortion. I always crank the output of the pedal all the way up.

With a two-channel amp I might set up the "lead" or "dirty" channel with a straight distortion sound, and then do a pedal sound on the clean channel. This way I can switch instantly between two different flavors of distortion for layering etc.

On high gain sounds, I love to use a clean booster. That way I have the tone of the amp, but with the input stage hit hard which gives the sound a lot of punch, and if really cranked, a bit of "fur" on the tone. Sometimes, this works really well when the pickups are backed away a bit on the guitar.


otek

[AxeSlash]

Fair enough.

Something I was wondering about is... over on the Andy Sneap forum everyone seems to run TS9's in front of their amps to create a mid hump to tighten up the bass - similar to what I was doing with the homebrew fuzz box. Is this something that exists outside of the Sneap forums?

I was doing that for years with my old rig. 900Hz or thereabouts is the golden frequency for pick attack-related fun and games. The only problem you run into is noise floor.

[onze_jef]

I love boosters and Overdrive pedals!

I prefer to use pedals with an allready overdiven amp sound.

For heavy riffing i like my Sovtek Mig 100 and a Fulltone OCD as a boost pedal. Just just a tiny bit of drive and the volume all the way up. It doesn 't really add dirth to the sound, it makes palmmutes stand out more, takes away a little bass (which I like since this amp is really bassy) and adds some compression to the sound. Since I put it before a volume pedal I can choose between my guitarvolume to clean up the sound or the volumepedal... Two different flavours of semi-clean.

With my Ceriatone Trainwreck copy I love to use a FAD Munch 'n Crunch, which is based on a Tubescreamer but doesn 't sound like a tubescreamer, there 's no mid bump at all, it kinda pushes the guitarsignal and I add dirth to taste, lowering the ampgain and get more of the pedal or vice versa, depends on the day... Without the pedal I find the amp a bit harsh, the FAD pedal kinda sweetens it.

My old Ampeg R15R combo has a lovely overdiven tone with the volume maxed out, and pushed with a booster or overdrivepedal it roars.

I rarely play on a "clean" chanel since I like single chanel amps and make a dirty sound I like and make clean sounds by using either the volumepot on my guitar or by using a volumepedal.

Anyways, I like to mess around with pedals and amps to get different textures. Just experiment, it 's good fun.

[Brendo]

onze, what youre doing wiht the fulltone sounds similar (but not the same as) the sneapheads are doing with their ts9s... generally i think they're all about setting it for unity gain and just getting the equalization and compression (and a tiny bit of grit) out of it.

[onze_jef]

onze, what youre doing wiht the fulltone sounds similar (but not the same as) the sneapheads are doing with their ts9s... generally i think they're all about setting it for unity gain and just getting the equalization and compression (and a tiny bit of grit) out of it.

Unity gain? The Fulltone boosts quite a lot.

When I said it doesn 't add dirth to the signal, I was wrong. My Sovtek and Ceriatone have enough gain, I prefer to lower the gain on the amp a bit and boost the signal before.

Those pedals work particulary well with those amps.

When I still had my Dual Rectumfrier I never used drive pedals since I was in love with the tone when plugged in straight.

Eventually I sold it because I discovered an overdrive pedal with the Sovtek gave me a more organic sound.

[chrisj]

The sneapheads are all using really high gain amps. The folk wisdom of 'don't add gain' relates to their really gainy situation.

My altered Valve Junior has just one knob (and an input gate bias trim, which doesn't count). If you try to get superhigh gain just out of it alone, you get a funny sound kind of like really old distorted guitars- part of it's simply because the fewer stages of highpass (DC blocking caps) are a lower-order filter even if they're set up fairly high in frequency. You start getting buzzy kazoo sounds if you push too much gain out of too few stages.

The term is GAIN STRUCTURING, and it is your friend. It's not like there's a simple rule such as 'don't add gain with the pedal', or 'do it all with the pedal and go into the clean channel'- all that gives you points on a curve and you have to be able to imagine where you want to end up. It's probably somewhere with fairly evenly distributed gain structure, I think the Sneap guys are fighting a tendency to want to dial in huge gain on the amp itself. I can't do that, so it's natural for me to lean towards gain structuring...

[Brendo]

Right. What I'm currently struggling with is getting a chunky, but very TIGHT sound. All my gear is focused towards a looser, rockier sound and my new band is quite a bit heavier.

But we were thinking of hiring a 6505 for this recording that we're doing in June - which is what 50% of the Sneapforumers use, the others are all using Dual Rectumfriers.

[Keks]

Right. What I'm currently struggling with is getting a chunky, but very TIGHT sound. All my gear is focused towards a looser, rockier sound and my new band is quite a bit heavier.


What stuff do you use?
And what is exactly wrong with it?



But we were thinking of hiring a 6505 for this recording that we're doing in June - which is what 50% of the Sneapforumers use, the others are all using Dual Rectumfriers.

I'd recommend to try those amps in band context before you go into the studio.
What's right for most of the sneapers doesn't have to fit your situation.

All the best,
the keks

[chrisj]

Will you be able to recognize the sound in the room outside the context of a mix? If so, go for it.

Know how a tone that's saturated but doesn't feel super squished will record and sit in a mix as more smoothed than it is? It's like that. If you want really tight and chunky, you might indeed end up going for a pedal, but in the room it might seem like you're RUINING the tone. If you want a gritty top with that, the sound in the room could get really insane- like 'who broke my guitar' insane. Wiry, icepick-ear-hurty, tending to lack body- using a pedal but not letting it have gain can totally go there.

Like any Rolling Stones rhythm guits for chunky? I do. Now, imagine how horrific that must have been in the room, knowing what you know about how the recording chain alters sounds. Now, let your guitar sound go there. Lie back and think of England and allow it- make it so that the track sits in the mix without doctoring. It'll be awesome- that is to say, tight, chunky and rocking. You might want to put in earplugs or put blankets over the amp to tolerate the actual recording part :)

[AxeSlash]

Brendo, sounds like you are trying to achieve the same shit I was a few years back.

Try and get a parametric with a low enough noise floor and correct impedance BEFORE you hit the amp.

Try boosting between 800 and 1K to taste. Lower than that if you like the later-era Carcass tone. Set up a shelf on the low and on the high, and again tweak to taste.

Generally, boosting that mid will get you that tight stuff while retaining some serious chunk. You can usually lower the gain on the amp if you do this too. Boosting the bottom will usually take you into fuzzy & muddy territory, and boosting top will take you to scratchy clinkly world. Generally I used to find myself cutting that into the amp.

But be careful, you can do horrendous things to the higher notes (12th fret high E and B strings) if you go too far.

YMMV. A lot. But it's worth a try before plumping for a 6505 (which IS a good amp, with a very particular sound); in some scenarios I'd say the right amp with some pre-gain EQ can deliver better results than a straight 6505/5150/Rectumfrier/insert generally-loved 'metal amp' here.


And if you can lay hands on an 8100 or 8080 valvestate, and don't mind doing some serious post-EQ, try that before anything else.

[Brendo]

What stuff do you use?
And what is exactly wrong with it?

My rig is any combination of:
Gibson SG Special
Marshall DSL401
ADA MP-1
Techworks Mosvalve

Basically the problem is, it's all a bit flubby sounding.

I'd recommend to try those amps in band context before you go into the studio.
What's right for most of the sneapers doesn't have to fit your situation.

Planned to hire it for one day and try it out in rehearsal actually.

[otek]

Basically the problem is, it's all a bit flubby sounding.

I have only very rarely encountered an amp where this cannot be solved through using a booster and manipulating the amp gain and tone controls.


otek

[onze_jef]

Yeah! Try some overdrives or boosters.

From more midbump + basscut to more flat (if my memory doesn 't fool me):

Ibanez Tubescreamer (reissue?): Didn 't work for my setup
Boss SD1: this pedal made me love the overdrive-as-booster trick
MXR Zakk Wilde Overdrive I remember loving the sound, pretty much like the BOSS SD1
Fulltone OCD Sounds way more like your guitar then the MXR or Boss, yet still makes the sound tighter for palmmutes and compresses a bit... I love this pedal and if I use this one as a booster I never turn it off, even for clean sounds (which I make with my guitarvolume)


Backing up the gain of your amp and playing on the edge of your comfortzone and thus have to pick harder can do wonders for pure chugging/muting rhythm work... for some stuff it might not work.

[Brendo]

I have only very rarely encountered an amp where this cannot be solved through using a booster and manipulating the amp gain and tone controls.

Again, the reason behind the thread - there must be something in this. I keep seeing in the guitar magazines that I flick through in the newsagent and then promptly put away that a lot of the modern metal guys are using the TS's in front of their amps, and as I said I used to do weird things with homemade fuzzes and EQ.

Yeah! Try some overdrives or boosters.

Well, I have a tubescreamer now, as well as a T-Rex Moller. I'll see how I go.

Backing up the gain of your amp and playing on the edge of your comfortzone and thus have to pick harder can do wonders for pure chugging/muting rhythm work... for some stuff it might not work.

We've tried the low gain thing. It just doesn't sound right.

[Tommy Fobia]

Right. What I'm currently struggling with is getting a chunky, but very TIGHT sound. All my gear is focused towards a looser, rockier sound and my new band is quite a bit heavier.

But we were thinking of hiring a 6505 for this recording that we're doing in June - which is what 50% of the Sneapforumers use, the others are all using Dual Rectumfriers.

O/T: If you do get your hands on a 5150/6505, try the rhythm channel with the 'crunch' button engaged. I've often found this much more useful than the lead channel, at least 70% of the time.

Currently I have (amongst other things) an MXR microamp which is useful to push the input stage of an amp. It's a 'clean' boost which conversely adds a subtle sharp-yet-smooth characteristic to the top end.

Although its not the cleanest of cleanboosts, I like what it does better than both the 'hi-fi' cleanboosts and the overdrive 'character' style boosts.

As with everything YMMV. :Thumbsup:

[iCombs]

O/T: If you do get your hands on a 5150/6505, try the rhythm channel with the 'crunch' button engaged. I've often found this much more useful than the lead channel, at least 70% of the time.

Funny you mention that. I've been doing the same thing with my JCM2K 50-watter lately. That plus a dirt box has just been KILLING the lead channel on that amp...so far it's seen my Keely TS-9, my Rat, and my Fulldrive, and all of those options have been just GREAT. I have yet to try my old Ross distortion (kinda an MXR Distortion+ sort of vibe)...but I imagine that it's just killer.

[AxeSlash]

we toured with a band that used the Wylde pedal a few years back - strange sounding pedal IMO - does something in the midrange that no other pedal/amp seems to. I think it's an acquired taste. Never used one pre-gain though.

[onze_jef]

we toured with a band that used the Wylde pedal a few years back - strange sounding pedal IMO - does something in the midrange that no other pedal/amp seems to. I think it's an acquired taste. Never used one pre-gain though.

I love that pedal... in certain situations... It 's basically just another overdrive pedal.




This whole guitar/pedal/amp = a long journey... Normally matching a guitar + pickups + amp + cab/speakers is already quite a journey... adding a pedal to find "your sound" makes it even more complex... IMO worth the search.

[Brendo]

Strange. I've started playing around with this... with a T-Rex Moller and a Ibanez TS-7, and even when they're set to sound more or less identical into a clean channel, they sound way different in front of a gain channel, and in fact I preferred the TS. But then as a regular pedal in front of the clean channel, I much preferred the T-Rex. Oh well... I've got both now.

[moaus]

Line drivers, tube screamers, graphic EQ's... what do you do to heavy guitars before they hit the amp (if anything) and why - what do you find that this does for you.

Mostly I've been a straight guitar -> amp person for heavy sounds, but I'm beginning to think that maybe I should be doing some of this stuff. Ages ago I was running a homemade fuzz box with the tone 3/4 of the way to "icepick" and the gain all the way down in front of my Marshall to tighten up palm mutes, and also for quite some time I was running a graphic EQ in front of all my distortions... I've also played around with clean boosts in front of the lower gain channel of the amp.

Firstly, please forgive the long post as there's many questions in the post

Secondly when I am talking about my specific reasons as to why I do things and then when i am talking about your sound i am talking about what i would do in your situation with your rig, i don't have what would be called a "heavy" sound by modern standards - I use as my main sound is duojets into marshall jcm800 2203 and use a peavey classic 50 running together (sorta 65% marshall 35% peavey)... i don't use a whole lot of gain, more volume, also i crank the mids on my amp they're pinned all the way up..

OK so what do i use in front of my amp - well i use a curtis overdrive http://musiciansmarket.com.au/site/New_Pedals.html#7

basically it has two channels the first is a tubescreamer type thing the second is a clean boost which comes in after the tubescreamer so you can use the clean boost as well as the tubescreamer - i use this mainly just for solos i hit both - like the tone and it gives a good liftoff for solos and cuts nicely and i use either sparingly for various parts which need to jump out a bit more or for slightly heavier bits - like for palm muted chug sections (of which i play one lol) it really works a treat with just the tubescreamer part going - mainly run the tubescreamer end mostly as level and a little bit of drive and volume on full and the boost is just on full - into the front end of the tube amp as well as getting louder it compresses nicely (in my opinion) and sings a bit more - than the dryer straight rock sorta rythm sound the amp has

i also use a mxr ten band eq with a mid hump and i use that for certain parts of songs just because i like the tonality and the different saturation quality of the eq into the amp - also use it for some leads where its over quiter passages - also like it for "heavier" single string leads so the sound sings more

so that's why i use them anyways - with regard to how the pedals react to the two different amps - the marshall definitely gets more volume boost than the peavey which saturates way more than the marshall which i kinda dig - i am guessing its because the marshall is 100 watt - has more headroom the peavey is 50 watt? i could be completely and utterly off the mark here so someone please correct me here

I know some guys who use Tubescreamer's into triple rectifiers and engl's and they use it more as what you're wanting it for in terms of what the sneapers are talking about - TIGHT low end and whatnot - but don't discount your DSL

I personally am not a fan of anything marshall made post the 2203, and even they are patchy as fuck, there are good ones and bad ones, but i reckon you could get what you want for your new band without having to buy a new rig.

Firstly remember there are plenty of heavy sounds that can be tight that don't require THAT sound - but if you do want that sound - get emg's, get a peavey 5150 equivalent 6505 or whatever, soldano (which are admittedly sexy), engl, mesa boogie et all - get a tubescreamer and off you go

But in light of your rig, and having what i would like as a heavy as buggery sound i would do this:

My rig is any combination of:
Gibson SG Special
Marshall DSL401
ADA MP-1
Techworks Mosvalve

ada - mp- 1- what do you use the ADA for? If it has no need, don't use it - personally i am not a fan and also in regards to the techworkds mosvalve - is that another preamp as well? i am not entirely sure here...but from checking on google i am not sure its the droid you're looking for...

with the marshall dsl401 - that is the single 12" JCM2000 yeah?

I would set up the dirty channel like this:

1. don't have any of the buttons pushed in - mid scoop, od2, bass boost - whatever those things are they have where you can accentuate your dirty channel - fuck that off straight away - don't even bother with it

2. i would have the master volume over 12 o'clock - at least over 5 or 6, preamp on 4-6, mids cranked, bass pretty up there, trebs around 3 - 5, presence on around 2 - i would use that as a starting point knowing what i know about the amp - that should get you into a slightly heavier than ac/dc but with that same sort of ring out of an open g chord ac/dcish sound

then i would put an eq or a tubescreamer in front of it (same principle with a boss super overdrive or any of those type pedals) - and boost the shit out of the volume of the eq or tubescreamer to taste and don't worry about the gain so much on the tubescreamer as you will get plenty more saturation with the front end boost and then use the gain to tighten is up - don't be afraid to crank the fuck out of the mids on the amp as you can compensate with your eq or your tubescreamer if you really really need to

Lastly a huge part of it - is the fact that you will probably be able to record that amp nicely - but it might not work for you in the rehersal room because (again i could be wrong, but i think you have the single 12" marshall) you aren't getting that air movement that is a big part of that kind of sound too.. that's just another thought

Again, sorry for the long post dude

[Brendo]

nope, the mosvalve is a poweramp. all mosfet, though. and it doesnt sound nearly as cool as running the ada into the marshall's power section. looking at a peavey classic 50/50 and fucking off the mosvalve.

ive been dicking around with the ada rig to try and replace the marshall. the marshall just too midrangey and loose. lovely for rock stuff but doesn't cut it for metal, especially the more uptempo stuff. el84's, remember - so it's never going to be tight as 6L6's, it's not even as tight as el34's. the problem here is just too much midrange, really.

getting the 3 tube mod for the ada which should help step into 'modern' territory with it...


also, i seem to have forgotten to mention the badcat 2x12" cabinet.

[Keks]

the marshall just too midrangey and loose. lovely for rock stuff but doesn't cut it for metal, especially the more uptempo stuff.


I'd try to boost the Marshall with something slightly compressing and voiced in a way that it eases that marshall honkiness.
Didn't Otek mention a parametric EQ stomp in here?

All the best,
the keks

[Cary Chilton]

Moaus nice to see you ! Great advice.



Brendo, yes of course the TS-9 is a classic for many reasons, the biggest reason is that it works best with most older tube Fender amps for lead and more modern tones -tightening bass, adding some mids... I maxon OD-9 is made better and it is true bypass, the OD-9 pro is just basically more of -drive and output and in my opinion slightly different on the upper mids but ever so slight... Most any overdrives with tighten the bass up, questions are where do you want that bass cut? How much " sparkle on the highs do you want? How much mid boost do you want? Where do you want the mid boost's Q to be? ]

OD-9 or OD-9 pro,
Naked OD,
Abunai or Abunai2 -I have both and there different.
Eternity with glass - treble boost essentially
HotCake
TIM or timmy
Barber Burn Unit or Direct Drive
DAM MK II
Axis Fuzz
Red Snapper
Stinkbug
Top Fuel
Skrewdriver
Little Green Wonder - less mid hump
Zakk Wylde's MXR box half MXR dist half SD-1
Boss OD-1 more extended lows or SD-1 more attentuated highs and mid rangy

Then there are some great new distortion pedals that will tighten the bass and scoop mids, too.

KOT -King of the Brits
None More Black
Openhaus
Mighty Red Distortion
ReezaFratziz
Metal Planet
PisdiYAUwot


You could also use a Teese picture or a Wheels of Fire wah (Q control and voicing) half cocked. You could also use a treble boost. You could use a DAM professional MK II or an Axis fuzz... You could use a vintage Boss GE-10 EQ -maybe the best EQ for marshalls ever, I have several. You could use the TC electronic Integrated Pre-amp with great EQ controls, I have several, they are great. Or a vintage microamp, I have a couple. You could use a TIM pedal with shape it how you like and also use further shaping with an EQ in its FX loop...

but B4 even getting into this can of worms, why don't you experiment with pickups. A Gibson Angus Young or ceramic 500T or a Seymour Duncan Distortion or a vintage Mighty mite or a WCR Icebucker or a Motorcity Blissterbucker pickup might solve everything right away....

[John Eppstein]

When it comes to pickups you can't beat Lindy Fralins - call him on the phone and he'll wind it any way you want!

[Brendo]

In that sort of market I'm partial to Bill Lawrence - from Bill and Becky, not the other guy.

[otek]

call him on the phone and he'll wind it any way you want!

In that sort of market I'm partial to Bill Lawrence.

You should also check out Johan Lundgren (http://www.lundgren.se/), who is a super friendly and knowledgeable guy who does custom work at a reasonable price.

I understand he is currently distributed in the US by among others, Conklin Guitars.


otek

[onze_jef]

I guess that someone who has Bill Lawrence pickups and likes them will not change 'em. Ever.

I have an L-90 Reissue and L-45S and love them.

[moaus]

Moaus nice to see you ! Great advice.





hey gary good to see you too brother!

hope you're well mate

[ben_allison]

In that sort of market I'm partial to Bill Lawrence - from Bill and Becky, not the other guy.

His Keystones are the best thing I've ever heard in a Tele, and the pair is like $50.

His health is bad, and they've sold/are selling the company to Lace, so in the future you'll have to get BL products through them.

And on hitting the front of the amp, here are some champs:

http://www.purepedals.com/images/catalog/besltd_big.jpg

http://www.catalinbread.com/SCPpedal.jpg

Waking up those input tubes with a boost can add a lot of heft and "grunt" to an amp, and actually reduces some of the fizz by allowing you to dial back the amp's gain a bit.

The great thing with pedals is they're relatively cheap.

Purchase.
Experiment.
???
Profit.

[Brendo]

His Keystones are the best thing I've ever heard in a Tele, and the pair is like $50.

His health is bad, and they've sold/are selling the company to Lace, so in the future you'll have to get BL products through them.

Nope! Old news. They've got a new facility in Orange, and their daughter Shannon is doing customer support now (which I assume frees Becky up to do more of the production work).

Dealing with Shannon to try and get a replacement bridge pickup for my Telecaster now.


We're using an Orange AD30 for some of our recording, and I've found a T-Rex Moller works really well in front and makes it almost into a passable high gain metal sound...

[Damage, Inc.]

I have only very rarely encountered an amp where this cannot be solved through using a booster and manipulating the amp gain and tone controls.otek

I'm jumping in a bit late here and forgive me if I'm restating another post, but EQ changes pre-gain have a different effect than those post-gain. The reason why the metal guys like the TS-9 into the front end so much is that it rolls some of the lows out and bumps up the mids in a pretty wide Q. This changes the character and response of the distortion. Some of them will roll the gain way back and dime the volume to hit the front end of the amp harder. This allows you to cut back the amp distortion and still get the crunch, with more clarity than without the pedal. I've worked with this quite a bit myself, and depending on the pedal/amp combination it has either worked like gangbusters or failed miserably. I'm not doing it with my current RockMaster/Simul 2:90 rig, but I really did like the 5150 better with my '80s TS9 in front of it.

[otek]

EQ changes pre-gain have a different effect than those post-gain.

Of course they do. I was just never a fan of what Tube Screamer-style overdrives did to the tone. I will admit that it's been a while since I experimented with one. But I always found I can get what I need by simply boosting the guitar signal, maybe in conjunction with some pre-gain EQ.


otek

[Damage, Inc.]

Yes, The Dimebag approach. He used a Furman parametric pre-gain to change the character of the distortion. You can get a wide range of different tones out of the same amp by boosting different frequencies.

[Cary Chilton]

There are so variations of Tube Screamers and not all have the a big boost in the mid range... try a little green wonder?

Incidentally, it makes me laugh when everyone says that they don't like that bump in the mids that a TS gives... midrange IS an electric guitar's sound... the instrument has very little bass.

If you have your typical shredder basswood Ibanez guitar, typical high output pickups and especially your ultra high saturated amp 5-6 12 ax7's - you'd be lucky to produce much of anything over 5K in the highs........... MIDS.... A classical rig, has a little more extended highs and lows, but still.... electric guitar's is all about midrange.

Anyway, a TS -depending which one you pick from 100's out there that is perfect for your rig- can really tighten up an amp that has a loose, ill-defined low mids and lows.

Still some people, don't like an TS's sound at all as they hear their amp's natural drive being colored, and the open-ness and liveness of the amp's sound seems to fade... but they are lots of OD's & dist. boxes and settings around this... EQ's and boosts can work, too. However, EQ's and boosts color the amp's natural drive, too and sometimes more than a tube screamer could -Some can hear it, some can't.

Everything effects everthing, so it comes down to personal taste, what you can live with for the feel your after or what the song's mix needs...

[otek]

Typically when I use a distortion pedal I set out from a clean sound on the amp.

If it's a channel switching amp, I will get one sound on the "lead" or "drive" channel, then switch to the clean channel and set up a pedal-based sound there.

That, along with different blends of two mics on the cabinet, gives me two distinct sounds from the same amp for doubling.


otek

[archtop]

I was just never a fan of what Tube Screamer-style overdrives did to the tone.


otek

I've had mine for about 20 years.

I keep trying it.

I keep putting it away.

Guitar - cable - amp

[otek]

I've had mine for about 20 years.

I keep trying it.

I keep putting it away.

Guitar - cable - amp

I should say that my sentiment towards the Tube Screamer comes from the perspective of the OP, namely to get a "heavy distorted rhythm sound" happening in the studio.

If some guy walks in with an amp and a Tube Screamer and gets a great sound from it, god bless. I mic the amp and off we go.

Sometimes this is not the case. I am doing a record now where the kid walked in with some kind of Boss programmable multi-FX pedal, a Tele and a Laney combo. We ended up chucking the pedal, spraying a couple of pots and replacing a V1 tube on the clean channel. I dimed the amp, and boom, instant great tone.


otek