Connecting bare wire speakers to a jack plug

[martinw2k]

I have two speakers that have 'bare wire' connections that you would plug into the terminals on your hifi amp.
Is it possible to somehow connect these speakers to a single stereo 1/4" jack plug? Maplin tell me they have nothing that would let me do this, but Im sure its possible. I just need some advice on how to do it.

[chckn8r]

What are you trying to do?

Do each of these speakers get their own signal or are you trying to get one signal to both speakers.

If it's the former, I'm sure you can pop down to Fry's or Radio Shack or someplace and pick up a couple of standard Tip/Sleave plugs and solder the wires to the poles.

If it's the later, I'm sure you could do the same thing, but it'll be a tight squeeze in there and you'll be getting into some resistance issues...

[martinw2k]

What are you trying to do?
See above!!! :lol:

Yes, so I have 2 speakers: left and right. The connection from each speaker is only the wire, so I want to connect both these wires up to a stereo 1/4" plug. So each speaker will get sent the appropriate signal, left or right.
Ive been looking for some kind of wiring advice, but have yet to find any. An even better solution would be some kind of terminal box that you can attach the wires, then connect up the box with a cable with a 1/4" jack.
Im not even sure what to google anymore!

[martinw2k]

So do i just get a stereo TRS plug, and solder left to tip and right to ring. Anything to the sleave (ground)?
Will this work?

Cheers

[Jason Phair]

No, the speaker cabling should be just the two wire, so you can ignore the sleeve, and tie hot to tip, cold to ring.

[dwoz]

go to radio shack, and buy a 1/4" plug with screw terminals. also buy some #14 awg speaker cable (glorified zip cord).

attach the wire that has the stripe or rib to the tip, (short tab) and attach the other wire to the sleeve (long tab). connect to your speaker as usual.

IF you can solder, of course a solder connection is better than using screw-terminals, but by your question alone, I surmise that soldering is Wizard's Art.

Soldering isn't really that difficult. but that's perhaps a different day.

dwoz

[martinw2k]

I can solder.
I really should know how to do this from my course but dont.

Its going to be a stereo plug, so I have one wire from each speaker going to it.
I dont get what u mean by hot to tip and cold to ring because I wont have 2 wires/speaker.
I will have a "left" wire and a "right wire" basically.

[otek]

I dont get what u mean by hot to tip and cold to ring because I wont have 2 wires/speaker.
I will have a "left" wire and a "right wire" basically.


Eeeeerrrrrrr...........


Wouldn't it be nice to listen to AC/DC instead of just DC? :lol:

One wire per speaker..... how do you figure that? You know there is a reson for the + and - terminals on the back of the speakers right?

You need positive and negative polarity to be able to drive a speaker.

Oh yes, drive..... while I'm at it..... what exactly are you gonna use to drive the speakers? I've yet to see an amplifier with a stereo tele out, but maybe I'm missing something.

[bunnerabb]

Sandy Lion?

Zat you?

[Jason Phair]

Uhhh...


Say, what's the impedances of the speakers and the rating of the amp? We could be getting into some dangerous territory here.

[Jason Phair]

Okay martin, here's the deal. I'm gonna stop busting your balls and help you.


Buy an end that looks like the one shown below. You can ignore the ground connector. Your speaker should have 2 conductors coming out of each one. Take the two red ones from one side, bond them to one blade of the plug you've bought. Tie the two black ones together on the other blade. You can now bypass the amplifier and plug it right into the wall...much cheaper and more efficient!

http://www.gutwire.com/images/new-images/connectors-8215.jpg

[Brendo]

jason. read again.

two speakers.

stereo jack output.

ground wire from each speaker should go to sleeve, should they not? and then the hot wire from left to tip, hot wire from right to ring.

whereas you seem to keep assuming one speaker... or feeding mono to both speakers... or some kinda crazy shit that fucks the impedance??

[Jason Phair]

jason. read again.

two speakers.

stereo jack output.

ground wire from each speaker should go to sleeve, should they not? and then the hot wire from left to tip, hot wire from right to ring.

Ground wire on a speaker, huh? What the fuck kinda box are we talking about here?

A driver moves two ways. In, and out. Positive, and negative. Hence there being two wires associated with any driver, or box containing such drivers. Positive and negative. There is no ground, unless it's a powered box, in which case driving it with the kinda voltage he's gonna get from the output of an amp is going to make it shut down in a hurry, unless there's a stepdown transformer in line.


whereas you seem to keep assuming one speaker... or feeding mono to both speakers... or some kinda crazy shit that fucks the impedance??

Yeah, that actually was my first assumption - that he was feeding it a mono signal. Not sure I recall seeing a single 1/4 speaker output on an amp before. Not sure I'd ever want to. Too many ways for idiots to blow shit up. On the other hand, they come to me to repair it, so I guess I'm sorta okay with that.


Any questions?

[Brendo]

agh, you know what i mean - ground, "the one thats not hot". sorry.

Umm... would it not be both the "wire that isnt hot" going to the shield, and then the hots from each going to the respective tip and sleeve?

[Spock]

OK folks I'm confused. Let's back up just a bit.

OK you have something and it has 1/4 jack(s) and you want to hook up speakers that take bare wires.

Bare wires into a speaks tell me that the speakers are not powered.

Next you said the device has a stereo 1/4 jack, tip, ring, and shield.

Now maybe I've not run into one, but that doesn't sound like the way any equipment is designed for speakers is to be connected. Is this a headphone jack maybe?

Houston I think we have a problem. I get the feeling what you are plugging into is not to be used to connect to speakers.

[Jason Phair]

agh, you know what i mean - ground, "the one thats not hot". sorry.



Hehe. You bust my balls, I bust yours. That's the Way of the Womb, right? :lol:


Umm... would it not be both the "wire that isnt hot" going to the shield, and then the hots from each going to the respective tip and sleeve?

Like I (and others) have said, I don't think there IS a right way to do it. I think something is being done quite wrong here. If martin could maybe post some pictures or descriptions of the particular pieces of gear he's talking about, we might find out.

[David Aurora]

ignoring the science, yes you can do it by soldering both negatives to the sleeve. i wouldnt do it with any gear you particularly care for, in stormy weather, or without pants, but yeah it works.

the only reason i know this is cause ive done this mcguyver type shit in the studio a million times when headphones wouldnt cut it and speakers were a better option, but i didnt have enough sends on the multicore free, or a bunch of other reasons so i used a headphone line. so it went amp +/- L&R to stereo jack, into headphone line on multicore, out headphone jack on junction box to speakers

i dont know much about electronics (theres experts in this thread if you ask nicely), but im pretty sure its not the best idea for a permanant setup. so do it at your own risk.

[Brendo]

I think this almost now comes under my thread of "making the most of what you've got"...

[David Aurora]

ahem. i dont recall ANYBODY mentioning aluminium foil brendo. jeez.....

[martinw2k]

Okay martin, here's the deal. I'm gonna stop busting your balls and help you.
Ive had enough ball busting here to last a lifetime.

On closer inspection these speakers indeed have 2 wires :lol:
Another mystery solved.
I didnt really want to explain why Im doing this, mostly because I know people are going to tell me its stupid and wont work. But im still gonna try it...
I bought an Alesis io|14 and was going to buy some active speakers for it when I got these 2 speakers, 40-60W ish, that I tested and they sounded decent. So I figured I could try and make these work with my soundcard somehow and thatd save me a bit of dough.
Incase you havent realised I am a very "use what youve got" kind of guy.

So YES, its a headphone socket OK!! HAPPY!!!!
Ive deluded myself into thinking its going to be able to work and I wont be undeluded.
So no more 'ball busting' please.
Where do my four wires go?:Roll eyes:

[Brendo]

Ooook. You need an amp. A soundcard's headphone amp hasn't got a chance of powering those things.

[Spock]

So YES, its a headphone socket OK!! HAPPY!!!!
Ive deluded myself into thinking its going to be able to work and I wont be undeluded.
So no more 'ball busting' please.
Where do my four wires go?:Roll eyes:

Martin, I was not trying to bust you or anyone's balls, I'm sorry if you took my comments that way. Like I said I was confused because I did have all the information I needed.

In this case the speakers are not powered speakers, correct? If this is true, I doubt the headphone out of your sound card has the balls to drive the speakers. I this case the speakers are a lower ohm load than what headphones would be, and most speakers take a bit more power to get them sounding right than headphones. You going to have to crank the sound card to it's max.

I could say hook them up like X, but I afraid that what you will do is fry, yes fry like smoke coming out of the thing, you sound card. I hate for you to then be pissed at me for suggesting that X hookup will work.

If you would like, I can try to write up load/ohm thing a bit so it makes sense, but I'm on the run right now out of town.

[Jason Phair]

Ah, I suppose all techniques don't work for everyone.


Ever notice how we tend to pick up teaching methods from those who taught us? The two most important things I can recall being said to me when I was a shit-nosed rookie were:


"What the fuck were you thinking?!?!?!" being screamed at me as my boss pushed me away from the desk.


and

"Hey, that sounded just like the radio! A CB radio."



I learned a lot that day.

[Jason Phair]

ignoring the science, yes you can do it


This reminds me of a great quote a guy I worked with came up with. We were discussing the rigging of a certain lighting grid, and where on the beam to go. He pointed to one and said "Other than the physics of it, what's stopping us from going to that one?"


I stopped, stared for a second, bit my tongue and said "Well, just the physics of it, I guess."

[otek]

Ive had enough ball busting here to last a lifetime.

And you need it, too. Because they apparently didn't do enough of it at that audio course. :Twisted:

On closer inspection these speakers indeed have 2 wires

On close inspection, Martin, ALL speakers have two wires each. That's just part and parcel of how a speaker works. If it only had one, all you would be able to give the speaker is direct current, and you know what that sounds like?


It doesn't.


Though it may still fry your speaker if it's strong enough.


I didnt really want to explain why Im doing this, mostly because I know people are going to tell me its stupid and wont work. But im still gonna try it...

As long as you're aware of the fact that you may actually damage or destroy your equipment. Still wanna try it?

We may have to change your online handle to MartinY2K in keeping with the sense of impending doom.

:lol:



Cheers,

otek

[Pimp-X]

We may have to change your online handle to MartinY2K in keeping with the sense of impending doom.



Dude, hurts. Hurts. Sides hurt. Brilliant...!! :lol:

[martinw2k]

I never did an audio course, its an electrical engineering type course, so maybe thats even worse.
Its just an idea I thought I would try out, worst case scenario I connect it up and find out the speakers arent loud enough. Im not sure how I would damage my equipment. The speakers may blow if I send a massive voltage into it and the same with my soundcard, but Im not.

[otek]

worst case scenario I connect it up and find out the speakers arent loud enough. Im not sure how I would damage my equipment.

The damage could happen if there are severely low impedances causing the amplifier in your sound card to short out. Spock could probably tell you much better what might happen.

But that really ain't the question.

The real question is, why do you want to set yourself up with such crappy odds for a usable result, in spite of what several experienced people here are telling you?

If you are doing it as some kind of science project just to see what happens, you've pretty much been told about it in this thread. If you are doing it because you want to drive your speakers with usable levels and good specs/audio quality, you should know by now that it ain't gonna happen.

Go out on Ebay and buy yourself an amp. There are various old hifi amps floating about in the 20-50 dollar range, and pretty much ANYTHING is gonna be better than wasting time and energy, soldering plugs and fucking about, only to end up with a result that, with a tremendous degree of certainty, will be practically useless.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather spend that time making music.


Cheers,

otek

[eagan]

We were discussing the rigging of a certain lighting grid, and where on the beam to go. He pointed to one and said "Other than the physics of it, what's stopping us from going to that one?"


I stopped, stared for a second, bit my tongue and said "Well, just the physics of it, I guess."


I mostly avoid use of the smilies, but.... sometimes..... words fail.....

:icon_eek:


Yikes.


JLE

[eagan]

er..... back to the main episode.....


Martin, I do hope you're not too sensitive and delicate about the "ball busting" aspect of things, because, well, you've put yourself up on the target wall, a little. It's not that there's a surly mob out to roast you, but, well, there are some things that will get you something along the lines of Jason's old boss.

I can understand and sympathize with the situation of starting out and having little to work with and little or no cash to add to it, but that's all the more reason to learn some things, quickly.

I had been reading this thread from the start wondering to myself "what the fuck is he actually trying to do, hook speakers up to a headphone jack?". I was even more dubious about this deal when you tap danced around the question from people. Turns out that was it.

Funny enough, your instincts were right when you were hesitating about saying what you were up to, because you figured we would jump on you and tell you it was a stupid idea. Sure enough, it was a stupid idea, and you've read that now.

So now you know. Bad idea.

I seem to remember you were asking something similarly silly and impractical about the input side of things, back in the old neighborhood. I forget what it was.

The bad news is you are going to get some "what the fuck are you thinking?" feedback on this kind of stuff.

The good news is that just by connecting to the internet and coming here you have a load of people to tell you "stop that, that's idiotic!". Most of us started out without this kind of resource.

If you're doing some sort of electronics course of study, then by all means, stay with that and learn. That alone will keep you from a lot of stupid ideas and moves you might go through on your own while finding your way. You're obviously in a situation where you cannot afford to fuck things up just because you tried stuff to see what happens. As the Swede said, also, why waste time beating your head on the wall to find that a dumb idea will not work?

You obviously have to do some homework. So here's the assignment. Dig into the stuff about signal levels and input and output impedance in audio. You don't have to be able to dig into input and output stages of gear on a circuit analysis level like a fully qualified engineer like, say, Spock could (there are a few guys here who are real live degreed electronics engineers). You do need to get a grasp of some general rules of the road kinds of things. Do it, it will save you a lot of time and expense and hassle and silly questions, you'll be glad you did.


JLE

[Jason Phair]

Martin, my friend, you're probably pissed now. And rightly so, because here's the gist of this thread:

Martin: Hey, how do I do this?

Womb: You can't, you'll shoot your eye out.

Martin: Well I don't see how that'll happen.

Womb: Go look it up.


Now that's not very nice is it. Someone owes you an explanation.

So here goes.



Everyone keeps throwing out the term impedance. What's that? Well, forget what the fuck it is. Let's just consider it as a measurement of size for our analogy here.


So your headphone card has a huge impedance. We shall liken this to you being hung like a stud bull. Dude, high five! You've got the biggest cock in the land!

Here's the problem though. You're dating this chick, a total looker, and sweet as pie. Not mincemeat pie though, more like cherry, with artificial flavouring.

I digress.


So you're dating this chick, and your monstrous rod fits right in her like a glove...it's a match made in heaven! We shall call her.....Grado.

And so the loving story goes, until one night you're fooling around with her and she's had a few to drink, so she's feeling REALLY frisky.

And asks you to go in the other door.


WHOO DADDY! You've been wanting this for a LONG TIME! Tonight's the night dude, you're traveling to Hershey Park.

Here comes the problem. This hole is a LOT FUCKING SMALLER.


Like, really fucking tiny.


But you're all horned up and want to get it on, so you go ahead and try slamming it in there. That doesn't work, so you decide nice and easy is the trick, and you finally work it in.


Then the pain hits.

While her muscles are stretching, and that's not pleasant, you're being compressed like you're wang's in a vice. Massive pressure is caving in all those little blood vessels and you're screaming in agony. An embarrassing trip to the ole family doc reveals that you actually broke some blood vessels, and will never be able to wake the ole dog up again, no matter how much viagra you chug and how turned on you are.


BIG THINGS DON'T LIKE TO GO IN SMALL HOLES.


That's how you'll fuck up your shit (your gear or your junk) by not knowing how impedance works.

[otek]

Jason,


Fuck you.

Not gonna talk about the old standard with the keyboard. Besides, that ain't even close. In my case, I blacked out and woke up in a psych ward.

They tell me I was still laughing three hours after the neighbors called in the disturbance and the ambulance picked me up.

[David Aurora]

Martin, my friend, you're probably pissed now. And rightly so, because here's the gist of this thread:

Martin: Hey, how do I do this?

Womb: You can't, you'll shoot your eye out.

Martin: Well I don't see how that'll happen.

Womb: Go look it up.


Now that's not very nice is it. Someone owes you an explanation.

So here goes.



Everyone keeps throwing out the term impedance. What's that? Well, forget what the fuck it is. Let's just consider it as a measurement of size for our analogy here.


So your headphone card has a huge impedance. We shall liken this to you being hung like a stud bull. Dude, high five! You've got the biggest cock in the land!

Here's the problem though. You're dating this chick, a total looker, and sweet as pie. Not mincemeat pie though, more like cherry, with artificial flavouring.

I digress.


So you're dating this chick, and your monstrous rod fits right in her like a glove...it's a match made in heaven! We shall call her.....Grado.

And so the loving story goes, until one night you're fooling around with her and she's had a few to drink, so she's feeling REALLY frisky.

And asks you to go in the other door.


WHOO DADDY! You've been wanting this for a LONG TIME! Tonight's the night dude, you're traveling to Hershey Park.

Here comes the problem. This hole is a LOT FUCKING SMALLER.


Like, really fucking tiny.


But you're all horned up and want to get it on, so you go ahead and try slamming it in there. That doesn't work, so you decide nice and easy is the trick, and you finally work it in.


Then the pain hits.

While her muscles are stretching, and that's not pleasant, you're being compressed like you're wang's in a vice. Massive pressure is caving in all those little blood vessels and you're screaming in agony. An embarrassing trip to the ole family doc reveals that you actually broke some blood vessels, and will never be able to wake the ole dog up again, no matter how much viagra you chug and how turned on you are.


BIG THINGS DON'T LIKE TO GO IN SMALL HOLES.


That's how you'll fuck up your shit (your gear or your junk) by not knowing how impedance works.




goddamn im glad you dont teach kindergarten.......:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

but yeah, well put really.

[martinw2k]

Ive done quite a few classes about circuits and the like in my course. None of them ever had an audio context though.
So I know about impedence, voltage, capacitance and how to make circuits and shit, its just I find it different when it comes to relating that to audio hardware. I would have to do more research into it, like actually finding out the impedences involved etc, but Im not really into that stuff. But I appreciate people trying to explain it to me and help me.
I like to make music, and be a crazy mad scientist when trying to get stuff working.

On another note I did order that sm57 from that thomann shop!

[Brendo]

headphones range from anywhere between 32 ohm and 600 ohm or so.

headphone outputs expect to see these loads.

speakers are generally in the 4 to 16 ohm range - below what the headphone amp is expecting.

[Spock]

Damn Jason I was trying to think of a real good way to explain that but, I don't know if I can top it.


To answer Martins questions. Headphones can be from a low end maybe 80 ohms, up to about 600 ohms. Now do a little math and ohms law and you can find out how much current an 80 ohm load with a 12 supply will pull. You can also work out how much power that is. Now when you put an 8 ohm speaker on that same thing, it will want to pull 10 times to the current. And since the heat loss on in the output transistors is going to be related to the curent squared, that means that it tiny output drivers for you headphones have to deal with 100 times heat.

Fry, fry fry. Unless you card has over curent protection, then it is just going to distort like hell.

[Brendo]

Spock, I've seen "real" headphones as low as 32...

And even one set that were 4 ohm!

[Jason Phair]

Texas Headphones are often 4 or 8.

[PatF]

EDIT: Removed inappropriate comment.

Sorry, no disrespect was intended.

[PatF]

Please see above edited post.

-40 rep points for a joke. OUCH

[otek]

Please see above edited post.

-40 rep points for a joke. OUCH

Now I'm curious.... what the fuck did you post??? :lol:

[HOOK]

OMG!! Don´t know if I´m gonna laughe or cry my eyes out.....:grin: :Confused: :Roll eyes: :Surprised: :Uh oh: :Razz: :Wink:

Ok! alright! ...up from the floor....

If you really wanna do this:


+ on left speaker to ring, + on right speaker to tip, - on both speaker to sleeve.


Happy smoking!

:Roll eyes:

Actually I sometimes connect the phones out of my Korg Trident mkII to an old TVspeaker mounted in an icecreambox...Oh the sweet, sweet dizzztortion it bring forth ... :Twisted:

HOOK

[chameleogaz]

Here's a website that might help you out with basic audio electronics. It's aimed at car audio electronics, but does a very good job of explaining how speakers and amplifiers work together.

http://www.bcae1.com/

Goodluck in your studies.

-Jeff