How touchy-feely are you with clients?

[DaveC]

Most of my work is as producer engineer. The producer-client relation is obviously a vitally important part of the job. My 'style' or approach is generally to be professional and frank, if someone plays something shit (and I know they can do better... and they know they could do better), I'll say 'that was crap do it again' or some such. Efficient and honest, seems to work. Gets results and at the end of the day the clients go away happy.

A colleague on the other hand goes for the whole 'oh man, I hate to say this but you know,' (goes to musician, arm around shoulder) 'maybe you could do this better'. If anyone is feeling down he is there for them etc etc.

What approach do the rest of you take? Does everyone do the 'I'm your best friend' thing with bands, or are both approaches common? Should I start cuddling my bands?

Very interested to know how you guys do things,

Thanks, Dave

[J.G.]

I'm not so feely, but my dog ALWAYS goes for the rootin'-nosing of the other male's crotches.

Some likey, some pass.

; J

[lebouche]

I'm v critical but I try and psych people up...and tell em this is their moment and that they can do it. Generally if its got to that they prob arent having the best session. Its hard to be critical without upsetting people because music is such an important personal thing. So I think a little sympathy and tact go a long way..just counter every criticism with a positive note.

[Espen Hvitløksdressing]

I am an absolute noob in this field, but with the few clients I've had, I've had to be a psychologist just as much as an AE. It all depends on the client. Some respond to the tough approach, and some need to be told how great they did - or in case of them doing not so great - how you KNOW that they'll nail it in the end. Red light fever's a bitch :)

[DaveC]

Totally agree on the sympathy, tact and compliments stuff. I just don't do the whole 'im your best mate, I'm your brother lets have a manly hug' type thing. (would rather not - you don't know where they have been or what you might catch!)

[lebouche]

Totally agree on the sympathy, tact and compliments stuff. I just don't do the whole 'im your best mate, I'm your brother lets have a manly hug' type thing. (would rather not - you don't know where they have been or what you might catch!)

You dont have to be shallow....no. But you might as well get along as well as you can. I find I struggle with my own moods as much as other peoples...cos it totally effects the session what mood I am in. The other problem this brings is that if I'm not getting the takes I'm after, I get a frustrated. Break time...cos you dont wanna spread bad vibes about.

[weedywet]

I usually ask if it would help if the assistant engineer comes out and performs oral sex.

[otek]

I usually ask if it would help if the assistant engineer comes out and performs oral sex.


Remind me to never ask you for an internship.

Alwasy good to know where NOT to send your demo CD.

[weedywet]

Why?
Are you no good at oral sex?

[D.Michaels]

O.K. Being less than a week new here in the womb, I hope it is appropriate to throw my 2 pennies in the ring. While I tend to always put the positive spin on what's going on during a session. I constantly remind myself that what I do and say can and will have an effect on the outcome of the day and ultimately the entire gig. That said one thing I always try to do, and especially with the singer, (or more specifically a solo artist, not necessarily only a singer in a band) is the pep talk. for example: "O.K. what happens now can make you or not, it's up to you, it's your moment, it's why your here, make it count" or words to that effect. Some kind of "make it great lecture". Seems to work, but knowing who your dealing with means being able to be flexible. Does this make any sense? Or am I selling candy to a diabetic here. Any Thoughts?

The other thing I think about is my own reputation. If it leaves the studio not great, I know that could ultimately come back on me. Call me a selfish SOB, but it's my ass on the line too. I try not to pocket or tune anymore than neccessary, so again getting every last drop of talent out of the talent is a skill I constantly work on.

Good to know I'm not alone here... Great thread!

[Goes211]

mmm...interesting. I had to deal with some of this two days ago.

My rules :

- be honest
- be respectful

In other words...I'll say "that was slightly out of tune...shall we try again ?" instead of "wow...that sucked. You got other hobbies ?"

It is of course highly dependent on who you are working with.
I'm producing a band right now, and the AE is a guy I've known and worked with for a long time. Between him and me we often crack jokes and mock each other's lack of skills. The band seem to enjoy the self-deprecating humor, it means we don't take ourselves too seriously. At the same time, we try to show respect for their work. As time moves on and you get more familiar, you can let your hair down a bit more. Use your people skills as to how you dose that.

Where I can get a bit more edgy is when people won't work with you. You sing flat or sharp...no problem. You start bullshitting me as to why you sing flat or sharp...it's not going to last too long.
Two days ago we had to finish some backing vocals because a TV crew was coming in to do interviews with the band. I'd planned and allowed more than enough time, but as things go,
their backup singer came in tad late (we'd booked the time according to HER planning).
We noticed she was singing flat. We made sure the cans were ok, did all the usual tricks to make her comfortable, got everyone out of the Womb, but she was still singing flat.

So I told her she perhaps needed to 'think' the note a bit sharper because it was still very much flat.
"It doesn't sound flat to me" she replied.
"Well...maybe we need to give you a bit more keyboards and then you'll hear it..."

Nope. Still flat.
"That was good wasn't it ?"
"Nope...that was still flat. Perhaps you shouldn't push the note out so strongly...try giving us a bit more air/breathing in the texture of your vox...what I mean is that maybe if you ease up on the note it'll come more naturally...Wanna try ?"

[insert her 5 minutes long rant as to why she thought that was a stupid idea, supported by a technical explanation as to how vocals work, and why technically speaking I didn't have a clue about vocals. Miss was throwing a serious attitude fit.]

At this point, we're an hour into her singing and I still have nothing. The clock is ticking and I know this TV crew is going to walk in anytime. I suggested she take a 5 min. break. But she went into even more attitude. That's when I said "you're right. I think this song isn't fit for your vocals. Nevertheless, we need backing vocals on this tune. So I suggest we stop and find another solution. Thank you very much."
"What do you mean ?"
"I mean we might need to call someone whose voice works with the tune."

...

"What if I tried to push the notes out a little less, and maybe give you a more breathy texture ?"
"We could try that".

Roll tape.
"Thank you, that was good."

The whole thing about it ? We could have been done in half the time without her attitude and without me having to resort to heavy-handed production threats.
Each person is different, and it's a different alchemy each time.
How to keep the formula exciting without ever reaching unwanted explosions is the key, but it's not always easy.

Hard work should be rewarded, even when the results are not what you're looking for. When somebody gives you their best and it's not working, you still need to find a solution but there's no need to bruise egos. But I will show no mercy for diva attitude, especially when it comes with incompetence.

[malice]

Interesting, goes ...

But what I'm sure you're aware off is that attitude is often a defense for insecure people. So my call on it is that situation falls in a third precept that you didn't mention.

you said

- be honest
- be respectful

I would add :

Be positive.

twice, to be sure.

My experience tells me that it is the key to a succesfull production and the art is to manage to stay "positive" without droping the "be honest" part and even sometimes the "respectful" part.

Sometimes I feel like being a producer is borderline to be a psychologist. If I was to start a school of engineering and producing by myself, I would set up a psychology cursus, something I never saw in these schools, wich is coming as a real big surprise.

malice

[Goes211]

Oh absolutely.
It is essential you make the performers feel confident and encourage them.

The situation I was describing was a bit extreme.
But I should also add I had warned the band beforehand about pitch issues regarding this particular person and that I was willing to give it a try, provided we didn't spend stupid time trying to achieve what could be done in 15 minutes with someone else.

Their lead singer is not the most spot-on pitch-wise either.
And I would be prepared to put up with more tude from him. He's the front/charisma person and is not replacable.
But he's working like crazy. No tude.

Malice is a king at nursing his artists.
Yet I'm sure even he has to deal with time constraints every once in a while where he has to make sure people check their egos at the door if he's to achieve a good result.
It's also important for the producer to understand the politics behind the making of a record.
You should be aware of wathever pressure the artist/record company/mooks etc...might be under.
We may choose to ignore that...but we all know how much it comes into play.

[J.G.]

Nevertheless, we need backing vocals on this tune. So I suggest we stop and find another solution.

Damn, Goes---shoulda rang my bell, I sold most of my attitude for some good wee--ermmmmm--wine some years ago.

; J

[knightsy]

I threw a coke bottle at a singer yesterday.

[jfee]

I'm usually touchy-feely with the good-looking younger but not too young clients of the opposite sex. results vary.

[malice]

I threw a coke bottle at a singer yesterday.

that is nothing ...

Phil Spector shoot them with real bullets :D

malice

[Jason Phair]

I can't believe Aardvark hasn't come to this thread yet...

[Spock]

I can't believe Aardvark hasn't come to this thread yet...

Maybe some legal resaons why he can't talk about this. You know when things like this come out in court, "Yes, that picture shows the idents made by the EQ section on my breasts as mister Vark had me bent over the board."

:grin:

[Comte de St Germain]

Yeah Malice, except for when you're dealing with psychologists, they see through it all.

Respect is the root of it.

Everyone is different but i've found, through experience that as an AE/producer you have to pay attention and keep adjusting to the moment/artist. I've sat there and watched great AEs freak out ROCK GODS by working too quickly because they were trying to seem efficient. I've also thrown parents out of sessions who were tactless idiots. Doing college audition tapes, vocal competitn demos and what not yield some interesting psychological insight.


Parent:

A. "You sing it so much better at home."

B. "What's wrong with you? Your pitch is way sharp."

C. "get it right you're wasting money."

The alternative:

A. "You're starting to get warmed up, let's roll it down again and concentrate on breathing."

B. "Let's dial in your headphone mix a little more so you don't have to push as much."

C. "Mr.and Mrs. Doe, go get a drink at the bar up the street so we can work productively without interruption. If you decide to stay you are the one wasting money."

[weedywet]

I'm usually pretty "nice' to the person in front of the mic.

but those in the control room have to learn to be furniture.

I can't tell you how many times I've said "be silent or be GONE", literally.

I'm not recommending it and I don't actually LIKE it, or being around it, but there certainly ARE some producers who are total dickheads to the artistes as a "method".

You know: it's a sad song, so I'll make the singer cry.
It's a screamer so I'll make the singer angry.
These are usually the guys who tell stories about how "stupid" or "talentless" the artistes are and how it's really all about THEM.
They're also the guys who, because of that, tend to make soul-less or corporate sounding records... because it IS their record with the artiste forced on top.

I don't mind being sarcastic, if it WORKS, and it's seen as funny (the RTB "any objection to getting it RIGHT?")... but I think on the whole I am much more comfortable as a producer trying to be the "fifth Beatle" rather than an adversary or warden.