Give some to the drummer or go fuck yerself.

[Slipperman]

OK.

Let it rip.

Drummer jokes. Etc.

I'm a fucking DRUMMER. How I got stuck with a bunch of fucking plank spanking twergs is totally outta my grasp.

I'm going to abuse my forum powers and make this a sticky and post about DRUMS all the fucking time.

Fuck everyone.

I'm gonna put up drum lessons.

I'm gonna invite drummers here.

I'm going to ruthlessly ignore every other totally inferior fucking instrument in this thread and take down every goddamn post that isn't about:

DRUMS

In closing.

SUCK MY SWEATY DRUMMING BALLS.

SM.

[weedywet]

what size sticks do you use?

[Slipperman]

what size sticks do you use?

LMFBO.

You asshole.

You fucking asshole.

That LITERALLY took you about 35 seconds.

Regal 2b.

You fucking Limey douchebag.

SM.

[Tim Halligan]

Slippy,

One hopes that this thread about drums, drummers, and drumming continues forever...











...because as we all know...
















...once the drumming stops...

































Bass solo!!!


:icon_eek: :headpalm: :icon_eek: :doubledeuce: :icon_eek:




Still...I believe there is such a thing as justifiable homicide.


:D


Cheers,
Tim

[MacGregor]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Linn_LM-1_Drum_Computer.jpg

[Drummerboy]

Finally a thread about The Instrument :vuvu:

Now, if you could write an enormous 120+ page explanation of How to record drums from Hell, this would be greatly appreciated.
Bang and the Art of consistent Rimshots.

Also, I'd like to know if you still insist on using those crappy, lousy Remo piece-o-shit heads that WILL loose all their coating after a good 5 minutes of bashing or looking at them sideways.

Oh, and how's your lefty practice going? :very happy:

[dnafe]

Okay I'll bite

Let's talk drum heads...I use

Toms - clear ambassadors on top - diplomats on the bottom

Snare - coated ambassador on top

Bass drum - Evans EQ1 on the beater - front head has a 10" hole dead center for idiot engineers and FOH guys to shove a mic into without ripping the head

what do you use?

[Drummerboy]

I use Evans Heads.
Toms: G2 coated top, G1 clear bottom
Snare: Power Center Reverse top, Hazy 300 bottom
Kick: Emad clear
I tend to tune the bottom heads slightly higher than the top on all drums.

Why do I find that I can get lower tunings with coated heads on toms? Any logical explanation?

[jerryskid]

Finally....A thread that has nothing to do with musicians.....:vuvu:

[dnafe]

Hey Skid

:doubledeuce:

[Goes211]

Haven't laughed this much here in ages.
:lol:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads14/Meg+White1231434891.jpg

[Damage, Inc.]

Goes, why did you put Meg White in a thread about drumming? :headpalm:

[bunnerabb]

You know what they call a band withour a drummer?

L O S T .

I listen to everybody on stage but I follow the drummer. If he's sorted and I know the words, the rest ins't my problem.

[Fulcrum]

^^ She's prettier than Tommy Lee and about as talented?

[weedywet]

And both have alleged Porno videos

[weedywet]

http://Www.youtube.com/watch?v=l95YNpTlrZY

[otek]

q3PvoX5RpRI

[Slipperman]

OK.

Everybody knows I'm too fucking lazy to delete posts so feel free to put the various disparaging bullshit up and get ignored.

Fine.

I am currently playing a 5 pc. Ayotte kit with wooden hoops.

Lefty.

It's insanely fun.

14" chrome snare of some shitty Yamaha type that records like God. Go figure.

24" x 16"(?) Kick.
12" x 9"(?) Rack.
16" x 16"(?) Floor
18" x 18"(?)Floor

It's not my kit.

It was loaned to me by the absolutely wonderful Tucker Rule of Thursday and MCR(touring) and Murphys Law etc. ect. fame.

Tucker has an Ayotte endorsement and must have 4 or 5 kits.

He left this one, his first, here for me to lose my mind on about a year ago.

Hopefully he'll forget about it. HOHOHO.

Anyhoo.

He left a bunch of random Remo heads(I think he's got some kinda deal with those jokers as well) here also, and said I could use them, so I've got a bunch of mismatched shit on there(12" and 14" have the completely BIZARRE sounding and feeling Ebony Emperor suede heads and a standard coated Emp on the 18" and the snare).

The drums feel soft and slow and very pillowy to me.

VERY little rebound off the skins.

They make ya WORK like the dickens for volume, and I like it as I'm pretty much LITERALLY learning to play the instrument AGAIN from square one.

Here's my "HotHouse".

9642

The back iso booth in Studio "B". Turn off all AC. Turn on interior lights full tilt. Close door. Sweat like a motherfucker. Can't see through glass to live room after roughly an hour and a half most nights. Probably gets over 90-95 degrees in there. Loved.

[weedywet]

There is something very cool about the regular Ebony Ambassadors (not coated)

I don't know why, as they're allegedly the same as the white ones but black.
but they sound different.

Russ Kunkel first showed me them, and said exactly that: "There's no reason they should sound different, but listen to this...!" and damn they sounded good.

[Slipperman]

So anyhoo.

Learning to play lefty has been the most challenging thing I have done in a long time... Maybe ever.

In my case, EVERY SINGLE INSTINCT developed in almost 40 years of farting around as a righty works AGAINST me.

This time I'm bound and determined to learn the instrument in a fashion which will help me to become a much more complete and well rounded player.

In short: I'm ACTUALLY DOING every SINGLE THING that all my teachers and mentors and heros and whatever tried DESPERATELY to get me to do the FIRST TIME AROUND.

I'm a 49 yr. old fuck-up, who has a pretty good idea of HOW to play, but never did the work... teaching(in my mind) a 13 yr. old boy to play the drums CORRECTLY, and I'm not letting the kid get away with SHIT.

Anyhoo. Lefty Kit with Logic 8 laptop rig for timekeeping, beat construction and notation purposes.

Feeds little Behringer USB mixer thingie which drives Vic Firth IsoPhones.

2 hrs. MINIMUM every night, no exceptions, no excuses.

NADA. Get in and play motherfucker.

Usually go from 1am.(I got 20 minutes to wrap this shit up and get in there) till 3am. As sessions are finished for the day. If somebody's using the booth, which doesn't get a TON of use during regular tracking here... I make Santa's elves move the whole fucking shebang in "C" and we do it there.

[Slipperman]

And here is a sad tribute to the fickle nature of love.

My 1985 SONOR Phonic-Plus 6 pc.

ABANDONED(at least for now) in the far corner of the other side of "B".

Haven't played them right handed in almost 17 months.

7th of June 2009.

Haven't played them one minute since the Ayotte kit showed up.

My CLIENTS, on the other hand are still beating the shit outta them regularly, as they BURY a ton of the kits the kids who are HEAVY HITTERS bring in for recording.

9647

9648

OK. Gotta flee.

Time to make the donuts.

Working on the "Tony Williams" stylee ostinato hi-hat thingie.

(Two beats of the swung triplet come from the stepped hat the third is on the ride). Gotta be able to play it in any order. Then ya gotta learn to play OTHER shit behind it with the kick and snare.

INSANELY HARD to get smooth(for me).

Slippy

[John Eppstein]

Okay I'll bite

Let's talk drum heads...I use

Toms - clear ambassadors on top - diplomats on the bottom

Snare - coated ambassador on top

Bass drum - Evans EQ1 on the beater - front head has a 10" hole dead center for idiot engineers and FOH guys to shove a mic into without ripping the head

what do you use?

Hole should NOT be dead center - bad place resonance-wise. Hole should be toward one side.

[otek]

Hole should NOT be dead center - bad place resonance-wise. Hole should be toward one side.

I would have to agree.


otek

[otek]

And yay on the Sonors.

A local kid I've recorded a bunch of times for the past 15 years keeps showing up with his battered old Sonor Force 2000s - supposedly a low-end Sonor kit but I swear it beats the living fuck out of a lot of (equally supposedly?) top dollar kits that come through the door.


otek

[Slipperman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJsybbSHfx4&feature=related

What I'm watching at 5:22am.

SM.

[MortenDK]

Thats my favorite drum solo video!. Man.. Vinnie at 7:10 - 7:13 I like small details like that!! :icon_eek:

[otek]

I love that clip. Saw it the first time in music school about 22 years ago.

For some reason, in spite of all the technical goodies, what Gadd does at 3.44 on just slays me.


otek

[dnafe]

Hole should NOT be dead center - bad place resonance-wise. Hole should be toward one side.

That used to be SOP but after the third head got torn I said fuck this and put the huge hole in the centre so the fuckwits would have no excuse for ripping my bass drum head.

:grin:

Now that this kit will be the house kit at our humble little studio the new head will have a proper sized hole off centre and if it gets torn I'll know who did it....me.

.

[meLoCo_go]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJsybbSHfx4&feature=related

What I'm watching at 5:22am.

SM.
Cool vid.
At times it sound like somebody had MIDI programming diarrhea:vuvu:

[matz]

There is something very cool about the regular Ebony Ambassadors (not coated)

I don't know why, as they're allegedly the same as the white ones but black.
but they sound different.

Russ Kunkel first showed me them, and said exactly that: "There's no reason they should sound different, but listen to this...!" and damn they sounded good.


afaik they use a different granulate for the ebony and the black suedes. intended or not, the ebony/ black suede heads sound different. i like the black suede ambassador.
my favorit for snare: aquarian satin texture coated.

[Albinoman]

Ever see anything as confused as a drummer with chopstix?

Anyway check this guy out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlrb7E

One thing I can suggest for guys who own a kit for backline or recording is to spend a little time and money on the kick drum. A good solid skin like an Aquarian super kick 2 or the new Remo one is a good start, I find the Evans Emads are super beach bally! The next thing is to try 2 Evans Eq pads, one for the front and on for the back.I find after that you need not stick anything else like blankets or pillows in the drum after that so long as both skins are tuned just past finger tight.The cool thing about the EQ pads is that they can be semi permanently mounted into position with the velcro tape that they come with, so if your kit moves from show to show a lot you can really keep a consistent sound.Lastly there is something called the Kickport http://kickport.com/ its like a horn for bass drums and will make you wanna put your kick on a diet.... or not!
Another note on fat drum sounds , if no one has yet tried the new Evans Ec 2 skins I can definitely recommend them as a drummer and studio and foh engineer. They really have an obese sound on toms and especially give floor toms " that " sound instantly. They are tough too and will definitely take a beating from hard hitting rock guys and last for long . I have also used the frosted clear skin on a bubinga snare and many of the drummers I have recorded have cemented on the great sound and feel of the drum.
Shap:vuvu:

[matz]

und circumstances the aluminum-ring on the ec2 can cause a rattle. no biggie live, but fellow wombian nutmeg and i really scratched our heads for about half an hour while tracking for cape8 where the heck that buzz came from.
same shit happened with an aquarian superkick 1. :Roll eyes:

[archtop]

for the record.
I yanked off the ec2 with the aluminum ring while they were still brand new.

Absolutely hated.

Coated ambassadors for me.

[Keks]

Ever see anything as confused as a drummer with chopstix?


So, this guy was a drummer? (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8106712/Doctors-remove-chopstick-from-Chinese-mans-stomach-after-28-years.html)


Explains a lot.
:lol::lol:

All the best,
the keks

[Mixboy2105]

It's not my kit.

It was loaned to me by the absolutely wonderful Tucker Rule of Thursday and MCR(touring) and Murphys Law etc. ect. fame.

I met Tucker when MCR played in Kuala Lumpur '08. My band opened for them in KL and also part of their Asian tour leg in the Philippines and Hong Kong).

Stylishly tight drummer (I thought he was better than Bob Bryar).

Absolutely funny guy. And friendly to boot. Most drummers are :)

[otek]

That used to be SOP but after the third head got torn I said fuck this and put the huge hole in the centre so the fuckwits would have no excuse for ripping my bass drum head.

What's up with that, are people trying to stuff their heads through it, and are they less likely to try if the hole is in the middle?? :lol:


otek

[otek]

And btw.... "metal drummers don't groove".

http://www.swedenlive.eu/video/145/Tomas+Haake+%26amp%3B+Dick+L%C3%B6vgren+2006

[edited to feature better sounding clip of the same thing]


otek

[meLoCo_go]

And btw.... "metal drummers don't groove".
I absolutely admire those guys!

I think the problem often is the sound of drums on metal records. Every bit of dynamics erased to compete with guitars.

I think the reason I love what Andy Wallace did on Sepultura is that drums sound like drummer and a kit!

[Keks]

This time I'm bound and determined to learn the instrument in a fashion which will help me to become a much more complete and well rounded player.

In short: I'm ACTUALLY DOING every SINGLE THING that all my teachers and mentors and heros and whatever tried DESPERATELY to get me to do the FIRST TIME AROUND.


Amen, Slippy.
I guess that's the thing, uh?
Funnily enough I found a paper with random practicing thoughts while cleaning up my cupboard yesterday,
stuff I wrote down a while ago and completely forgotten.
Number one: Be a great teacher to yourself, the one you always wanted to have.

There comes the point where you have to reevaluate all the stuff you learned and start over new.
Right now I start woodshedding guitar again, after a long period of other urgent shit to do.
Totally enjoying myself playing plectrum exercises, practicing vibrato, weighing finger movements...
Great feeling.

All the best,
the keks

[dnafe]

What's up with that, are people trying to stuff their heads through it, and are they less likely to try if the hole is in the middle?? :lol:

otek

Nope - jamming it in and yanking it out

:icon_eek:

:grin:

[archtop]

Otek.

I found no groove in that.

skills sure.

The main skill being hitting shit way too fucking hard.

I can't even imagine having to practice in a small room with the guy.
Everybody would need those vic firth isolation phones.

[archtop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VdtC9WhnCg&feature=related

[MortenDK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EebJfeJOLRc&feature=related

[Slipperman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFcpBB4Yy_M

Some of the most stupidly great funk drumming ever.

Clark is out of his fucking skull. Total bananahead.

Keep listening, they keep changing the grooves.

Doesn't seem to be a video feed for it.

Which is kinda great actually.

Anyhoo. The tightest/loosest playing under the sun. Absolutely KILLS me.

At some point, you realize, these are just 2 fun-loving KNUCKLEHEADS just making up silly grooves/riffs on the spot and banging the shit out of them for shits and giggles.

If ya need to hear Clark play STRUCTURED drumming to catch his drift... check out Brand X or Herbies Headhunters.

SM.

PS. There is also a shorter "part 2" on YouTube.

[Dave Perry]

We were told over and over again by our band teacher in 6th-8th grade that anyone who wanted to play drums in his band would thereafter only refer to themselves as percussionists, since as "drummers" they would be open to the obvious ridicule of being called "dumbers", but the only thing people could say in response to the term percussionist would be "gesundheit".

[tannoy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFcpBB4Yy_M

:icon_eek::weedstore:

Absolutely insane drumming. I'm pretty sure those guys are not human.


Marco

[matz]

thats cut from "rhythm combination". i watched the vhs-tape for about a kazillion times. great advice and knowledge in there!

[nobby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFcpBB4Yy_M

Some of the most stupidly great funk drumming ever.

Clark is out of his fucking skull. Total bananahead.

Keep listening, they keep changing the grooves.

Doesn't seem to be a video feed for it.

Which is kinda great actually.

Anyhoo. The tightest/loosest playing under the sun. Absolutely KILLS me.

At some point, you realize, these are just 2 fun-loving KNUCKLEHEADS just making up silly grooves/riffs on the spot and banging the shit out of them for shits and giggles.

If ya need to hear Clark play STRUCTURED drumming to catch his drift... check out Brand X or Herbies Headhunters.

SM.

PS. There is also a shorter "part 2" on YouTube.

Sick stuff! :Thumbsup:

Somehow that reminded me of this:

10a45mgMGcY

[Dave Perry]

Yea, Cobham was a monster, as was Michael Walden who proceeded him.

But my, how young and, dare I say, effiminate McLaughlin seemed in that intro. And he looked so sultry in all that white silk...:icon_eek:

Walden:

aV9iJKVA8EE&feature=related

[weedywet]

Yea, Cobham was a monster, as was Michael Walden who proceeded him.



he might have come before him as well

[Dave Perry]

Ah, ok, I thought Visions of the Emerald Beyond was the first album Waldon was on and one of the later ones, apologies if that was wrong.

[weedywet]

I have no idea.
I was pointing out that the word "preceded", is what I think you meant.

[Damage, Inc.]

proceed=continue
precede=come before

I believe Weedy was making a joke.

[Dave Perry]

I see, well I guess I may have been wrong, since it looks like proceed can't be used like precede (with the opposite sense):

http://www.aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/dictionary/proceed

Proceed implies doing something after something else has transpired, but I guess you can't say "this proceeded that".

[nobby]

Yea, Cobham was a monster, as was Michael Walden who proceeded him.

Not sure what you mean -- Cobham was in the original Mahavishnu Orchestra.

And I think McLaughlin was supposed to be on a higher spiritual plane, not necessarily gay :grin:

Anyway, hard to think of Cobham and not think of Lenny White.

XqFN9o02NH4

[Dave Perry]

Not sure what you mean -- Cobham was in the original Mahavishnu Orchestra.

And I think McLaughlin was supposed to be on a higher spiritual plane, not necessarily gay :grin:




Yea, there's been some confusion due to my clunky wording. By "proceeded" (not preceded) I meant "came after", but it looks like that was incorrect English grammar. :Redface:

As far as McLaughlin being gay, never considered it, but he did seem rather boyish in that first video---let's call him cherub-like. Or perhaps invoking the image of the boy-god Krishna. :)

http://www.vedicilluminations.com/kusakratha/Images/krishna-boy.jpg

By the time I saw him in concert a couple of times at Yoshi's in Oakland, CA, he was rather grey-haired and stately looking.

[John Eppstein]

Anyway check this guy out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlrb7E


There's a whole thread about him around here somewhere.....

[weedywet]

'followed' might have worked nicely.
or 'succeeded'.

Simpler is usually better, unless the more complicated word adds some additional nuance.
If all you mean is 'came next' it's usually better to just say that

[Dave Perry]

Yea, yea, well "came before" could always replace "preceded" if you take that line of thinking.

[weedywet]

Yes, and usually should.

As I said, unless there's a reason why another word choice adds something

[Dave Perry]

Yes, and usually should.

As I said, unless there's a reason why another word choice adds something

What would ever be the reason why "preceded" would add something that "came before" doesn't? They mean exactly the same thing.

[Slipperman]

Weedys TOTALLY INSANE and insuperably pedantic internot behavior preceded the massive asskicking that Slipperman proceeded to lay on his lilywhite posterior.

LMFBO.

You guys are fucking NUTS.

SM.

[Drummerboy]

Do the drummers here have youtoob stuff of themselves playing?
I would love to see a video of the Slipperian Drumsauna in action :vuvu:

[otek]

Are ALL drummers invited?

How about Levent Yildirim.....! :D


H3kcD5KWT_Q


otek

[Albinoman]

This will be my next kit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_AI53Kz4Xc&feature=fvw
But seriously, I love this next guy and he is a champion tabla player too!
Interesting that one of his kits is made out of Paiste cymbal alloy and then the comments they make bout the micing technique used on this clip!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVbFrl9wLBA&feature=related
Also is stick twirling considered drumming? Hats off to the guys who can pull it off but it makes you wonder how much better they would be if they spent that twirling time on more musical endeavours. Anyway here is a quick lesson from Bobby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZWbSUrmZlE&feature=related
Here are some classics, watch to the end to see what Joey Jordison and Buddy Rich have in common.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijs_xms5rGI&feature=related

[Fulcrum]

Are ALL drummers invited?

If so, I think we need to get some Zakir Hussain in here:

oLvKNlB1pB0

[Fulcrum]

This will be my next kit

DUde, I swear I saw your username and immediately registered Albiniman, and wondered what you were up to. But then I'm part blind in one eye.

Anyway, more traditional drumming fare..

http://atfulcrum.wordpress.com/2007/03/08/not-all-drum-solos-are-boring/

[nobby]

What would ever be the reason why "preceded" would add something that "came before" doesn't? They mean exactly the same thing.

The woman has to come before the man, otherwise she'll be pre-seeded.

[nobby]

bzkZ8Ikr9L4

[nobby]

zR8l0koXCcM

[Albinoman]

Oops I posted twice and couldnt delete it so I have to write something so

Say YES to DRUMS!

[Albinoman]

[QUOTE=Fulcrum;287993]DUde, I swear I saw your username and immediately registered Albiniman, and wondered what you were up to. But then I'm part blind in one eye.
DUde ........what? Like Steve Albiniman? Anyway great vid Dave Brubeck has always worked with great drummers, I was fortunate enough to meet Jack Dejohnette at a gig in NY state the other day another killer drummer!
Here are some jokes for drummers, not about drummers except for the one.

What do you call a beautiful girl on a trombonist's arm?
> A tattoo.
>
> What's the difference between a pop musician and a jazz musician?
> The pop musician plays three chords for a thousand people,
> and a jazz musician plays a thousand chords for three people.
>
> Why was the piano invented?
> So the band would have a place to set their beers.
>
> Why is the trumpet an instrument of worship?
> Because a man blows in it, but God only knows what comes out.
>
> What do you call a building full of saxophonists?
> Jail.
>
> What's the difference between a bassoon and a chain saw?
> The exhaust.
>
> Three trombone players in a car. Who's driving?
> The police.
>
> No wonder we have so much air pollution when so much of it passed through the saxophones.
>
> What's the difference between a French Horn and a lawn mower?
> You can tune the lawn mower.
>
> Do you know the definition for perfect pitch?
> When you throw the banjo into the dumpsite and it lands right on the accordion.
>
> Did you hear about the clarinetist who bragged that he could play 16th notes?
> The rest of the orchestra didn't believe him so he proved it by playing one.
>
> Why does the violinist have a handkerchief under his chin when he plays?
> Because there is no spit valve.
>
> Why are violins smaller than violas?
> They're really the same size, but violinists have bigger heads.
>
> Why can't a gorilla play a trumpet?
> He's too sensitive.
>
> Why do bagpipers always walk when they play?
> To get away from the noise.
>
> How long does it take to tune a guitar?
> Nobody's bothered to find out.
>
> What's the difference between an accordion and an onion?
> Nobody cries when you cut up an accordion.
>
> Why do we have bass players?
> To translate for the drummers.
>
> What is the definition of a quarter tone?
> Two oboes playing in unison.
>
> What does it say on a blues singer's tombstone?
> "I didn't wake up this morning...... "
>
> What's the difference between a puppy and a flutist?
> Eventually the puppy stops whining.
>
> How many musician jokes are there?
> Just one ---- all the rest are true.

[John Eppstein]

Also is stick twirling considered drumming?

Stick twirling is a good way to fill in the spaces where the drummer SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING anything, rather that inserting spurious nonmusical fills. It aids in the timing of the the part and can also, when done properly, assist in providing a good, solid attack. It also looks cool and entertains the audience.

[Slipperman]

Thank you AlbinoMan!!!

Actually laughed my balls off at those jokes.

Some days yer just in EXACTLY the right mood.

Thanks for all the videos(except that god awful finger drumkit one, somebody's gotta die for that).

The Tony Williams one was very illuminating... He was such a "rock" drummer at times. Sacrilege... I know, but I guess it's just so much of what he played, and more tellingly, his musical approach ended up IN the traditions of rock playing after a while.

You can see why all the rock "kids" of the era(Baker, Collins, Mitchell, Bruford, Giles, Palmer, Bunker, Bonham, Paice, Appice, Etc.) ended up borrowing from him WILDLY. First or secondhand. I suspect he was both very exciting, and very UNDERSTANDABLE to them.

I know it's much more complicated and convoluted(and a case by case scenario) than I described above, but I suspect there's a grain of truth in there in a "big picture" sense.

SM.

[majestikc]

Any body checked out Thomas Pridgen from The Mars Volta (ex now).

[Slipperman]

Any body checked out Thomas Pridgen from The Mars Volta (ex now).

I like that kids playing overall.

Impressive chops and a pretty wide palette of tonal and dynamic colors for a modern era rock player.

Only thing that kept me from nodding off COMPLETELY during a lot of those "Low-rent Santana/King Crimson after smoking too much PCP laced hash" jams they(The Mars Volta) littered the internot with.


SM.

[weedywet]

I'm rather fond of this (in an entirely different vein):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6BzNEZxbiw



and this is the studio version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpmDJucELik&feature=watch_response

[bunnerabb]

I love working with this guy.

One of my best friends and former Dazz Band drummer, Ike Wiley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WWewRHig_M

[nobby]

The Tony Williams one was very illuminating... He was such a "rock" drummer at times. Sacrilege... I know, but I guess it's just so much of what he played, and more tellingly, his musical approach ended up IN the traditions of rock playing after a while.

You can see why all the rock "kids" of the era(Baker, Collins, Mitchell, Bruford, Giles, Palmer, Bunker, Bonham, Paice, Appice, Etc.) ended up borrowing from him WILDLY. First or secondhand. I suspect he was both very exciting, and very UNDERSTANDABLE to them.

Yeah, a lot of that stuff translates nicely to Rock.

Your mention of Appice made me think of the following vid; not a drum solo, but some of the fills are just awe inspiring goose bump stuff, top 40 or not. That's right, that was top 40 in '68, read it and weep. Or just weep.

A tight band just about exploding with adrenaline and emotion, a great song, live, no backing track/synching, on the Ed Sullivan show.

I love this, YMMV

s5WMh9BAFmM

[Slipperman]

All great stuff.

Thank you fellaz!

Enjoying the hell outta this.

Procol Harem(my favorite song EVER from them), Vanilla Fudge(hair raising version, just MANIC energy), Ike Wiley/Stanley Clarke(great solo, the one hand vs. one foot thing near the end is fairly bewildering).

Nice break from the usual.

SM.

[majestikc]

I'm not a huge fan of listening to them from an enjoyment point of view, but you have to give credit to the likes of Virgil and Thomas Lang purely for there technical abilities (unlike guitar players).

It's pretty impressive but it quickly tires listening to Virgy play fifty different odd groupings all at the same time.

ESPECIALLY if you put Tony McAlpine playing annoying "guitar shredder" crap over that..........Planet X sucks man-boobs!

For independence the most enjoyable has to be Akiro Jimbo, I'd rather listen to a drummer playing the mission impossible theme over a straight beat all at the same time than a drummer playing 9/16 over 7/3 over a paradiddle between his left ball on the 3rd hihat and the 9th floor tom.

[Albinoman]

There are a lot of super talented mind blowing drummers around, its really inspiring, I was a hot young drummer once but I smoked too much pot and didnt do my homework and now I have lost most of my chops, I can play songs in my band but cant really do a session for a jazz or latin thing which I regret, so the idea that Slippy is going for the lefty approach to get chops up is really inspiring, Id love to have the time and the drive to go back to the wood shop and become a drummer again, right now Im engineering and producing so much, especially FOH on the road, that I just dont play anymore, even cut ties with my band this year coz of my commitments to someone elses shows :Confused:
Anyway another great inspiration as an awesome drummer and probably one of the best clinicians is Jojo Meyer, also love checking his band Nerve.
Here he is at the Musikmesse 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZm3Gw9xwr0

Thanks again to Slipperman for this thread drummers rock! Havent you noticed how much better drummers get along with each other and even other musos?

[weedywet]

110 bpm
bass drum on 1 and 3
snare on 2 and 4
high hat or ride cymbal eight notes.


get in 20 drummers and each one will sound different, feel different, have a different internal kit balance...
it's AMAZING how different.
with the simplest beat in the world, on the same drums and the same mics in the same place.

to me that's what's interesting.
not some guy wasting time trying to prove he can play 13's against 9's against 4's.

Ringo kicks all their asses.

He has the advantage of working within a brilliant framework, granted.
but Tomorrow Never Knows, Rain, Come Together, Ticket To Ride... he has more songs/beats that you can identify the song from just his (utterly original) drum part than just probably anyone else.

The fact that he probably 'can't play jazz' is so completely to his credit that I don't know where to begin.
He has the best back beat EVER.
A far greater achievement.

(runner up: Al Jackson)

[archtop]

Weedy the sooner you let it go, the sooner we can start the recovery :)

[weedywet]

It's been a real pleasure (well, usually!:Coolio:) recording so many great, and different, drummers over the years.

(and I'm sure I'll remember more and add them via editing, as it covers a lot of years of recording,)

my incomplete off the top of my head list:

Steve Gadd
Anton Fig
Russ Kunkel
Jim Keltner
Kenny Aronoff
Shawn Pelton
Chris Parker
Andy Newmark
Buddy Rich
Luther Ricks
Alan Schwartzberg
Sammy Merendino
Omar Hakim
Billy Cobham
Charlie Watts
Victor Lewis
Michael Braun
Pat Mastellotto
Thommy Price
Adam Woods
Alan 'plug' Jackman
Gerry Conway
Howard Grimes
Wells Kelly
Tommy Vinton
Myron Grombacher
Steve Holley
B.J. Wilson
George Recile
Fred Berman
Andy Kravitz
Graham Broad
Rick Marotta
Clifford Hoad

[Drummerboy]

One of my favorites is Billy Ward. Wonderful touch on the drums and the nicest guy in the world, even invited me to his studio when I was in NYC in 2008 :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YexaQsaCrU&feature=related (Billy's tour of jazz drummers)
(the disguised "students" in this video are weckl, lang and novak)

Another one that I really like is Jojo Mayer. He used to play in my hometown a lot when he was a kid.
Jojo doing some drum 'n bass with the group Nerve (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf3fpULe6Ig&feature=related)

And of course let's not forget about Marco Minnemann!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB9UP4EseCA&feature=related

:icon_eek:

[Albinoman]

Dude I dig Jojo so so much since my post on him today Ive been checking him out on youtube and just digging him more and more, Nerve rock my socks right off! Another guy who is a big hero of mine is Billy Martin from MMW, dont have time to find a great clip of him right now but maybe Ill get a goody later! In fact I wish I could be Jojo and Billy and play in both their bands all the time!

[otek]

Ringo kicks all their asses.

He has the advantage of working within a brilliant framework, granted.
but Tomorrow Never Knows, Rain, Come Together, Ticket To Ride... he has more songs/beats that you can identify the song from just his (utterly original) drum part than just probably anyone else.

I once saw Gregg Bissonette go through a bunch of different Beatles tunes and analyze the playing (in a very entertaining, non-academic sort of way).

I was amazed by how intricate some of those beats were, and how amazingly well they fit with the songs, while still being perfectly recognizable as parts even outside of the musical framework - all without ever coming off as "showy".


otek

[johnnywellas]

Trying to add something to the topic, besides all the groove giants mentioned and then some more, I recently discovered this dude, and I think he's got some cool chops on his junglist massive thingy goin' on:

b98BJ36K1wo

vv And thanks señor loco for helping me learn what I was doing wrong with the embeddlishment :headpalm: vv

[meLoCo_go]

And if anyone may care to explain why the fark I can't manage to embed any freaking yewtoob video anymore... :Mad: Thanks.
Quote someone with correctly embedded vid and you'd see:weedstore:.

[Senap]

Let's not forget the great Animal.

The other Buddy feller is pretty talented too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_BmeBfV-O4

[Nutmeg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAUpoIVQAnY
:Sad:

[weedywet]

Showy, in a good way, I think.

DhM_jy2kmVw

[nobby]

Well, if you just want to talk about driving a Rock song like a rocket propelled locomotive...

U88KuWxayLg

[Nutmeg]

Damn Barry "B.B. Queen" Borden just poped up on my mind.
There ist a DVD from 1978 were he is playing with Mothers Finest in Germany.
That guy at this concert totaly was the reincarnation of Animal!

[nobby]

I seem to be on 'M's. What's after Mitch Mitchell?

Oh yeah. Moonie

cZtRedcmTIQ

[AxeSlash]

Um...nobody's mentioned Carter Beauford (sp?)???

'Say Goodbye' (there's a clip on pootube somewhere) is something special IMO.

Oh and Tony Royster Jr. (aged something ridiculous)'s drum solo vid on youtube somewhere is ridiculous. One talented kid.

[Fulcrum]

Someone mentioned Buddy Rich earlier. Does he have a point here about using trad grip over matched?

v0V4Aqs2D4

Funny, the embedded video isn't showing up in my browser, but I've done the embed correctly. Anyone else having trouble seeing it?

[John Eppstein]

Someone mentioned Buddy Rich earlier. Does he have a point here about using trad grip over matched?

v0V4Aqs2D4

Funny, the embedded video isn't showing up in my browser, but I've done the embed correctly. Anyone else having trouble seeing it?

Video?

[Fulcrum]

Yeah, that was my point with the last sentence. The embed code seems not to be working again.

Here's the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0V4Aqs2D48

[weedywet]

Yeah, that was my point with the last sentence. The embed code seems not to be working again.

Here's the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0V4Aqs2D48

v0V4Aqs2D48

[majestikc]

That was great, I'm going to try out traditional grip and give it a chance, I've tried it before with good results, feels more "natural", but never stuck with it.

[Fulcrum]

v0V4Aqs2D48

Showoff. :Razz:

I guess I missed that last 8?

Mea culpa.

[Slipperman]

Can't even begin to tell you how much I love Buddy Rich as a DRUMMER...

BUT:

Buddy's corpse can swoggle my sweaty nuts on the subject of traditional grip.

He's totally full of shit, and himself, on the subject. Typical Buddy Rich "sour grapes" BS. He then attempts to qualify his expert opinion on the subject by ripping some fireworks that he assumes lesser players will imagine are NOT POSSIBLE without adhering to his rules.

Utter NONSENSE.

For everything he points out you can do with traditional grip, that is harder to do with matched... I can point out something that is easier to do with matched grip.

Case in point: As soon as you get into multiples of rack toms yer totally fucked by comparison.

You are holding ONE of the sticks in a fashion which SHORTENS the effective REACH of the stick, and utilizes a series of muscles which are inherently WEAKER(in terms of both total torque and DUTY CYCLE) by virtue of human anatomy.

This affects EVERYTHING in the AGGREGATE system. INCLUDING CENTER OF BALANCE ISSUES. I could explain further, and if anybody want me to go there, I will.

In the meantime: Everybody get the fuck over it.

Make no mistake. I LOVE trad grip drumming. Started that way. Still play/practice SOME stuff trad. grip every day.

BUT: It's a VERY different can of wormies, and not NECESSARILY a BETTER one.

Thankfully, Buddy is best remembered BEHIND the drumkit PLAYING. As many times when he managed to get out IN FRONT of the drumkit SPEAKING, he said a whole lotta totally random, self-aggrandizing nonsense.

Anyhoo.

In a perfect world, I think young players should learn to utilize BOTH grips with equal skill if they can manage the time... as it's really a lot like the old "heel up" vs. heel down" on the bass drum and sock cymbal debate.

These are both subjects where AFTER the initially daunting and time consuming MECHANICS stuff gets outta the way... it's turns into "how does any particular form SUIT WHAT YOU FEEL IS THE MOST INTUITIVE AND APPROPRIATE APPROACH TO DELIVER EACH PARTICULAR PART?".

Which completely negates all of the "WHICH particular form is better" hogwash.

1.) Learn the various techniques and approaches.

2.) Figure out what works for YOU in any particular situation.

3.) Get to the end of the measure with a smile on yer face.

4.) Feel free to revise your opinion on ANYTHING musical at the drop of a fucking hat, and don't EVER apologize to anybody for it.

Yer not here to BE RIGHT.

You're here to BE GREAT.

Buddy displays the difference nicely in the aforementioned video.

Bless him.

SM.

[weedywet]

is he still dead?




playing with traditional grip is rather like wearing a bass guitar up like a necklace.
I don't care how it sounds - you LOOK like a dork

[ben_allison]

That Ayotte kit is gorgeous Slip.

It's probably the only decent and respectable thing in the entire state of New Jersey.

[Slipperman]

is he still dead?




playing with traditional grip is rather like wearing a bass guitar up like a necklace.
I don't care how it sounds - you LOOK like a dork

LMFBO.

Ahh Weedy.

I am so looking forward to the MMRS this year.

However... I think we really need to coordinate a plan of action AGAINST Mixerman and his murderously sycophantic troll sidekick Aardvark.

Oh wait... I just remembered the old maxim: "There's no honor in winning a battle of wits with an unarmed adversary".

Nevermind.

We'll just wing his ass-beating in the usual extemporaneous fashion.

That Ayotte kit is gorgeous Slip.

It's probably the only decent and respectable thing in the entire state of New Jersey.

Is it a coincidence that it was made in your homeland of Canukistan, Ben?

SM.

[ben_allison]

Is it a coincidence that it was made in your homeland of Canukistan, Ben?

Ha! Tis no coincidence. I'm very prejudiced, and will always prefer Canadian kit when given the option!

I might be mistaken but I'm fairly sure they use Keller shells which drastically reduced the Canadian content...

[Slipperman]

Ha! Tis no coincidence. I'm very prejudiced, and will always prefer Canadian kit when given the option!

I might be mistaken but I'm fairly sure they use Keller shells which drastically reduced the Canadian content...

Whoa!

I didn't know that.

Keller is what? USA mfg?

SM.

[Slipperman]

Whoops.

Googled them.

Manchester NH.

Might as well be Canada.

We should just GIVE Vermont to Canada BTW.

Most "Canuk-like" state EVER.

In about a zillion different ways.

SM.

[ben_allison]

We should just GIVE Vermont to Canada BTW.

Most "Canuk-like" state EVER.

In about a zillion different ways.

I think it's the maple syrup that really tips the scale.

[Slipperman]

I just lost a post which took me the better part of two hours to compose.

The fucking "time-out" thingie here is well known to me and I THOUGHT I had covered my ass by copying my post into the buffer when it gave me the old time-out message.

In my haste I back spaced too far, copied one of the preceding short idiocy posts and totally fucked myself.

Been a while since I pulled THAT stunt.

Man. I need a fucking DRINK.

SM.

[ben_allison]

1) Launch Text Edit.
2) Type like a madman.
3) Copy from Text Edit.
4) Paste into browser.

This will help you steer clear of heart palpitations, drinking binges, and possible suicide.

[majestikc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8b3FkZ24PY

[David Aurora]

Showy, in a good way, I think.

DhM_jy2kmVw

If I'm not mistaken, that drummer is actually from my area and taught one of my old clients. The client first came in when he was 14 and was the most naturally talented drummer I've ever heard (and I think this was the time he was learning from the dude in the video too which helped make him nothing short of amazing).

He's in his 20's now, hasn't owned a kit for years and even his bongos are in a pawnbrokers. Thanks, alcoholism :Confused::Mad:

[weedywet]

The Hoad brothers (Clifford is the drummer) are from the Gold Coast area, if that helps.

wild men.
John Agnello and I spent about 2 months making that record; Dave Thoener mixed it

[David Aurora]

Yep, that's my town. Wait, so you did that record? Small world

[Nutmeg]

Quadra-Pedal King!
Sound like a shred but I fear it is real.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4jkwukiaR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DN8SK2qQkI

[Slipperman]

Quadra-Pedal King!
Sound like a shred but I fear it is real.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4jkwukiaR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DN8SK2qQkI

It's totally insane how many HORRIBLE guys are on YouTube.

It's bedlam. Ya can't look... Ya just gotta MOVE ON.

The disconnect between this guys upper and lower body is legendary. He can't play a SINGLE thing without fucking it up profoundly.

Can you believe he thinks he should be TEACHING?

Money or no.

The most baffling thing is a lot of the stuff he tries is fairly difficult for less than advanced drummers.

He can obviously read well enough to understand WHAT it is he's ATTEMPTING to "teach".

He can even navigate the basic idea of the various limb landings as a function of "early coordination efforts"...

But he's SO FUCKING FAR AWAY FROM COHERENT EXECUTION OF ANYTHING... IT'S DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE HE WOULD THINK IT'S OK TO JUST BASH AROUND AIMLESSLY IN "MY FIRST DRUMKIT DEMONSTRATION" MODE.

I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUCK HE'S THINKING?

People are CRAZY.


SM.

[majestikc]

Thomas Lang already uses the Sonor Giant step pedal

http://www.start-drumming.com/images/Doublebasspedal4.jpg

Same concept, just he can actually do some pretty impressive stuff with it. I thought it was a bit gimmicky at first but it's a whole nother skill/technique to get to grips with and pull off smoothly.

As far as so much bad stuff being one lubetube, there's also a lot of bad stuff on myspace........atristes will create.

I saw Derek Roddy and George Kollias when they where here (both played for Nile), pretty extreme but unimpressive drumming, especially when George Kollias gave his demonstration of "groove" drumming, rimshots for ghost notes type of thing.

[Drummerboy]

There's so many hacks on youtube who spread their drumming non-sense diarrhea all over the place. It's not even funny anymore. :headpalm:

I don't care how many 128th notes you can play nor do I care if you can play a rattamafluediddle with your left side against Zappas Black Page with your right side while you're ironing your Dream Theater T-Shirt with your cock. Slippys funk video from a few pages back is what I care about. How can you make that shit groove without displaying what you've been practicing today?

Rant over. Back to valuable instructions.

Here's what I call a pure gold advice on a very basic subject that half of all the drummers I know got wrong: set up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyfV3n_nkFM

In short words: If you sit on a chair with your legs slightly appart, you will notice that they point slightly outwards (duh). Why on earth would anybody want to set up their kick drum pointing STRAIGHT forward as seen in those 80ies Pearl Catalogues? That's right: I blame Pearl for each and every case of drummers who throw out their hips in their late 30ies since the 1980s.

Funny thing is: I saw a new manufacturer at Frankfurt Messe last year who introduced a weirdly shaped kick pedal to compensate for exactly this. The footplate was straight but the beater was swinging to the left. They weren't happy when I explained to every person looking at their pedals the root of this very "problem" :grin: Hope they're going to be there next year too..

[majestikc]

That is true, although I don't and never have tried to line up my foot with the straight pedal, my heel is always to the left of the pedal hanging over it slightly.

Can't see why shifting the kick angle a bit wouldn't help. Could get that second tom a bit closer as well.

[David Aurora]

Somebody might have already posted this, there's no way I'm actually going to click drum video links haha. Anyways, I challenge all drummers to either be this awesome or pack their shit and go home.

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t0VlzJeNvA)

Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puEVs4g6qyk)

[imagin]

I always loved the drums in this little ditty, great build up, kind of makes the track!!!

Haha You can sing along if you like!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RI-QtEAwvE

[Fulcrum]

Keith Moon's influence stretches far and wide...

dw3z9s99r64

[meLoCo_go]

Keith Moon's influence stretches far and wide...

I absolutely love guitar solo in this song:grin:

[Nutmeg]

Play nice ore you gone end up in our special training facility!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAUpoIVQAnY

[Keks]

Keith Moon's influence stretches far and wide...


I think it is the only sane attitude to have towards this setting.
BTW, I never noticed the obnoxious squeal of his bass drum pedal before.
Even more Kudos to him...
:lol::lol::lol:

[johnnywellas]

RruAmVYiGYs

[Slipperman]

Steve is a ROCKING drummer.

Even when he's playing FUNK.

Which is SO fucking great given the width and breadth of his vocabulary on the instrument.

The sly and totally relaxed triplet figure on the kick in the final "straight ahead" groove.

Oh man.

NASTY.

He absolutely KILLS me.

The little Chinese kid is hilarious. Do you think they coulda put that ONE cymbal a little HIGHER!!??

Crash. No pun intended.

The Korean lounge guy may be the most insane fucker EVER to land behind a drum kit.

I had tears at some of the faces and grandstanding.

I said it before.

PEOPLE ARE FUCKING CRAZY.

Thanks all!!!

What a great thread this has turned into.

xoxox

Slippy

PS. What is the brand of drums the Korean guy is using? I thought it was SONOR at first, but the logo on the small rack tom kinda looks like something off the South Korean FLAG. Right? Also, are they PINK woodgrain, or is that the video/my atrocious eyesight? In any event. Genius. I've watched it 3 times now. Can't stop. The internot is fucking evil, really. I'm probably gonna want these minutes back someday.

Going back to watch it AGAIN now.

[Drummerboy]

The Korean Guy reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yvHWyvexZA
:grin:

[Johnny]

How'd I miss this thread?

Ayottes are beeYOOteeful!

Slipperman, I've been playing a semi-Mangini-style ambidextrous setup for a few years. The sense of balance you get from working on playing lefty is just a great feeling.

Trad was made for a drum on a sling. Mine is on a stand, flat.

Buddy was a great player but I'm totally not interested in anyone's music who treats his band the way he did.

Tony was all my heroes' hero. He changed everything.

Oh and G1s on toms, coated on top, Power Center reverse dot on snare, EMAD or EQ 3 on kik batter, EMAD front (if I want a hole) or EQ1 (if I don't).

[johnnywellas]

Sum'a yooz Noo Yawkaz prolly know dis dood:

A_hlVrFHE_A
3SaxSzDzxGw

[majestikc]

The above just proves how little the instrument really matters (any instrument I mean, but for drums if your playing on anything better than buckets you have no excuse)

[Johnny]

Some Gavin Harrison drum porn.
http://www.musicradar.com/news/drums/gavin-harrisons-drum-setup-revealed-porcupine-trees-kit-in-pictures-311329#content

[Sausage Maker]

Crazy Drummer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG5lhcSoPfM)

[John Eppstein]

Sum'a yooz Noo Yawkaz prolly know dis dood:

A_hlVrFHE_A
3SaxSzDzxGw

We have a guy here in SF who does that down on Market Street. Wish I had a video of him - he's actually better than the NY guy from what I can tell on these videos.

[weedywet]

Steve is a ROCKING drummer.

Even when he's playing FUNK.


not wishing to just seem argumentative, but I've had this conversation with many other drummer friends... I actually think he is a funky drummer, even when he supposedly "rocks"

it's a bit like Pino Palladino with The Who.
great as he can be, it does not rock like Entwistle.

that's how I always feel about Steve in a rock context.... "hey look at that funk drummer with the rock band..."

[Slipperman]

not wishing to just seem argumentative, but I've had this conversation with many other drummer friends... I actually think he is a funky drummer, even when he supposedly "rocks"

it's a bit like Pino Palladino with The Who.
great as he can be, it does not rock like Entwistle.

that's how I always feel about Steve in a rock context.... "hey look at that funk drummer with the rock band..."

I understand.

We may indeed have a difference in opinion on that one.

And I think yours is the more common viewpoint on the subject from similar conversations I've had with a few people about his playing.

It's a wonderful thing, as I think everybody can agree the guy is a marvelous player.

Just a funny aside to toss into the fray as long as we're on the subject of "perception"...

You posted a video of a guy who I thought was a less than stellar timekeeper during the fills. Not Moon. He doesn't count... He's from the 70's and an anomaly on drums if their ever was one:

I'm talking about the Aussie kid in the 80's band you produced.

See... to me... (and I certainly don't KNOW 'cause I WASN'T THERE - which is EVERYTHING) I suspect I woulda kicked his ass from here to Timbuktu on the click in tracking, and MADE him give me all the energy AND content... without all the "push-pull" stuff during the fills. Even if it took a fucking eon to do it.

In other words: Not content to have the BASIC subscription to the click, or even just the TOP of the measure... But EVERY FUCKING THING... INCLUDING THE FILLS.
Which is where I hear this kid really swinging around the click.


ALSO NOT STARTING SHIT here AT ALL, but it brings up REALLY pertinent questions about production approach during drumming and it's downstream impact on the overall outcome.

And HERE'S WHY I MENTION IT.


The hilarious irony is: In December of 1985, I was VERY MUCH like that guy.

I played with a decent amount of fireworks for a "rock player".

I think I played with pretty contagious enthusiasm. I'd never failed an audition for a band in my life at that juncture.

I sure as hell tried to play for the songs in a fitting manner.

I DEFINITELY played every measure like it was THE LAST FUCKING MEASURE I'D EVER PLAY.

And.

I ran into producer Carl Canady.

I've never been able to decide if it was the best, or the worst thing that ever happened to me.

He BROKE me as a player.

Absolutely CRUSHED my confidence as a drummer. KILLED ALL JOY in drumming for me... for YEARS.

Maybe forever.

OTOH. He FIXED me as a player.

I learned to play with pretty ruthless subscription to absolute mechanical time. INCLUDING... nay, ESPECIALLY, the fills.

It took FOREVER for me. It was ALSO beyond humiliating. Biggest hit my ego ever took by a zillion miles. The ugliest shit that has ever happened to me in my drumming life. Threw my entire musical universe into a total tail-spin.

It was ALSO the MOST IMPORTANT thing that ever happened to me as a drummer without a single doubt in my mind.

I wasn't exactly YOUNG at the time. I was 24.

When I watched the video I was AMAZED that that kid got to take the liberties with timekeeping in the breaks and fills you allowed him.

On a MAJOR label record.

In the EIGHTIES!!!

BAFFLED.

FLUMMOXED.

I have gotta tell ya Weedy.

No shit brudder. You are the REAL DEAL. You WALK THE WALK.

I could be totally mistaken but: This APPEARS to be a case of: As long as the basic DRIVE of the song is intact... and the kid always finds the "one" against the click... Let him do what he wants in the fills, as it adds plenty of feeling and doesn't hurt the track.

I had drummer friends who played in FAIRLY GIGANTIC bands of the era(I can think of ONE who shall remain unnamed for obvious reasons) who were getting CANNED off their own records so "studio ghost" guys could come in and play THE EXACT SAME CONTENT to "eighties spec".

And it was the old "don't ask - don't tell" maxim in full effect, as they got to play on the tours, stay in the band, get the album credit... and SHUT THE FUCK UP... PRAYING they could get their "studio chops" up enough to cut the mustard for the "next one".

There was FEAR in the air with an enormous amount of my contemporaries on the subject in those times.

Anyhoo.

I have spent my entire career as an engineer and producer AGONIZING over these exact same issues on the other side of the glass.

Do I have the right to CHANGE how these kids "feel time"(even during the FILLS!), simply because it's not, for lack of a BETTER term: ABSOLUTE MECHANICAL TIME?

I can't, for the life of me, think of a SINGLE ISSUE as an AE/RP that I have lost more sleep over, or has more dramatically effected the outcome of the records I have made.

Outcomes which have ranged from gloriously great to absolute DISASTERS.

This is not "old news" for me.

This is going on to this very fucking day.

I have SO MANY thoughts and observations on the subject I could go on for PAGES.

I won't.

Not yet.

But if you would be so kind as to comment on the subject I would LOVE to have your insight on the matter.

And everybody else's.

Once again: Not JUST the subject of overall tempo swings DURING the basic song drive and the wisdom of the click for drummers who basically have "their own time" for the songs..., But the TOLERANCE allowed AGAINST the click(if any) during things like the drum breaks and fills.

I KNEW there was a reason I started this thread!!!

HOHOHO.

Best regards,

Slippy

[weedywet]

funny you should say...

you know Anton Fig got his big break basically by being brought in to be the 'ghost' drummer on a very famous band who should remain nameless (but painted their faces, ahem) by Eddie Kramer

Eddie produced the album before the one I did with that Aussie band, and all the time he was making it he positively tortured them with "you know I could get Anton in here to fix this if you cant get it" (and in other ways, but that's another story he kind of traumatized them about major label producers in general)

so that was for starters.

But I saw them play and I thought Clifford was fantastic!
Their live energy simply blew people away, plus they were both (the brothers) very charismatic

I totally wanted to get that feeling of raw live energy on the record.
I wasn't in any way after perfection - only honesty and impact.

There IS no click to be off from.
We cut the songs with one guitar and the drums and overdubbed from there.
The two brothers are biologically in sync, pushing and pulling together, and that's part of why I wanted the bass to follow later and match their time and feel.
I went for the takes that just got us off in the control room every time.
And we kept the overdubs to a minimum as well.
It's a very un-80's record, especially 80's hard rock.
If anything, I took heat after the fact, for it being "under produced", but to me, it sounds LIKE THE BAND and it's still fun to listen to.

I'm not big on clicks in general unless you NEED them.
On the whole, I'd much rather feel the band push and pull together.
I actually think it's more satisfying when the choruses push or the bridge takes off or the fade drifts and so on.
it feels human

I only worry about what feels good to me.

try putting a click to Bonham sometime! It's all over the place. I mean unbelievably all over the tempo range.
But they're in the room staring at each other and feeling it together and it's perfect.
It's BETTER than 'in time' 'to the click' Zeppelin could ever be.

When Sting starts forcing a click onto The Police it gets infinitely worse.

If you want machine time, there are machines.
What the machines can't do is feel like real random people.

[Slipperman]

WOW!

That kid has pretty deadly time during the grooves for NO click.

NOW I'm really amazed.

Boy, have I taken some shit over the years for when I have turned it off.

Boy, have I taken some shit over the years for turning it ON.

Rarely from a label... but OFTEN from the bands.

It's never easy for me.

I have always said the invention of the Linn drum machine(which some smart-ass posted a picture of in the beginning of this thread) was the WORST THING That ever happened to rock music.

It's the "uniformity disguised as perfection" thing which drives me up the fucking wall in SO MANY aspects of modern music production.

Ahh me.

I was born 10 years too late I fear.

There was NO FIGHTING that shit in the 80's.

None.

Well... ALMOST none as you have nicely displayed right here and now.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Slippy

[weedywet]

I made LOTS of click-free records, even in the Linn 80's

including actual 'hits':

Scandal The Warrior, the first Outfield (Play Deep), Invincible (Benatar)...

probably more without than with

[Slipperman]

I made LOTS of click-free records, even in the Linn 80's

including actual 'hits':

Scandal The Warrior, the first Outfield (Play Deep), Invincible (Benatar)...

probably more without than with

All great drummers if memory serves.

Myron Grombacher!

Oh Lordy.

BRUTAL rock player.

MASSIVELY unnoticed overall.

Stab my Momma to have guys like that recording here with any regularity.

Just...

Doesn't...

Happen.

Crash.

SM.

PS. Also Clem Burke. Those "Less is More until I gotta KILL You" guys. Deadly.

[weedywet]

and Thommy Price, and Alan Plug Jackman

also killers

[imagin]

I'm not big on clicks in general unless you NEED them.
On the whole, I'd much rather feel the band push and pull together.
I actually think it's more satisfying when the choruses push or the bridge takes off or the fade drifts and so on.
it feels human



Wow great thread!

Weedy do you think that this point of view comes from you Bass playing hat. Use the Bass as a click may be?

[weedywet]

No. It just comes from my listening to and loving music with human interaction.

I want to be moved. Not impressed with precision.

[otek]

I was always pretty impressed with Living Colour and how Will Calhoun would throw these absolutely insane fills in there - and everyone else would just catch it and play along.

I know they did a lot of things to a click, too, but their live shows always had that great feel of just teetering on the edge of rhythmic chaos - without ever falling over.


otek

[Zachg]

Quadra-Pedal King!
Sound like a shred but I fear it is real.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4jkwukiaR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DN8SK2qQkI

Going back a few pages, but I actually know this guy (MORTBUZZ/ Rick) ... My brother took lessons with him for a bit, and I think he played on that kit once or twice..

EDit so I actually am on topic-ish:

I love when drummers actually folow the click.. Out of the the drummers I've recorded, one has been consistently solid, and the others not so much. On the first album I worked on, the drummer played the snare and cymbals in time, but was a 16th or even an 8th late on kicks, or would try to play 17 16th notes/bar...
That was when I was learning BD, too... :Roll eyes:

[weedywet]

Playing on tour right now with the simply unbelievable Steve Potts.

And it feels amazing but it is NOT click perfect time. It breathes.

[Drummerboy]

Stanton Moore, anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPdPaSXpLMY

And of course Shawn Pelton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev9s7BRRv1c&feature=fvw

They both have such a nice way to move (almost dance) behind the set.

[weedywet]

Pelton is always such fun to record.... He's so PLAYFUL as a drummer both in his grooves and in the wacky stuff he'll set up to hit, or even wear!

He can have shaker bracelets on with finger cymbals taped to his sticks and a piece of scrap metal out of a road warrior set hanging on a cymbal stand, and yet it all just sounds perfect together.

Now HE has both great time AND great feel.
He can make you forget that there is a click.

[bunnerabb]

try putting a click to Bonham sometime! It's all over the place. I mean unbelievably all over the tempo range.

Then there's molasses foot. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2apM0DAe1g)

[Johnny]

Weedy, you've worked with Billy Ward, haven't you? He's a fave.

[Nutmeg]

Tony Allen
Billy Martin
Joseph Modeliste
Brian Blade
Peter Erskin
Lenny White

[Senap]

Anybody in to Pete Thomas? Costello's guy.... Love he's playing. Musical and tasty.

[Drummerboy]

Weedy, you've worked with Billy Ward, haven't you?

Billy Ward is one of my favorites, too. His DVD "Big Time" should be awarded with a friggin' Nobel Price. For Quantum Physics.

[johnnywellas]

- Dave Grohl
- Matt Cameron
- Vinnie Paul
- Mikkey Dee
- Morgan Agren
- Elvin Jones
- Joey Baron
- Kenny Wollesen

[Sausage Maker]

Clyde Stubblefield - the MOST sampled drummer ever....

[Immanuel]

Thomas Lang already uses the Sonor Giant step pedal

http://www.start-drumming.com/images/Doublebasspedal4.jpg


Here is a guy with a nice sense of humour :grin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otBWf-B1g-c&feature=related

[Nutmeg]

Here is a guy with a nice sense of humour :grin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otBWf-B1g-c&feature=related
That idiot routed the SMPTE code to the audio out. :headpalm:

[Toonman]

That idiot routed the SMPTE code to the audio out. :headpalm:

Sounds more to me like he has some reeeeaaally nasty stomach problems! (Tex-Mex food-induced, probably...)

[matz]

SrnZqmGtkmQ

[jason baliban]

Its pretty tough to beat Danny Carey for rock drums! The dude is a machine. Records entire albums in 3 takes without a click.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVbFrl9wLBA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNL5B4eQ8Bk

jB

[matz]

and works on the parts for years before entering the studio.

[jason baliban]

and works on the parts for years before entering the studio.

If this is in ref to the band as a whole, i think "years" is a generous time frame :lol:

That being said, i am pretty sure danny carey could learn the tunes this week an still pound them out in a few takes next week. The dude is a monster!

jB

[otek]

That being said, i am pretty sure danny carey could learn the tunes this week an still pound them out in a few takes next week. The dude is a monster!

The one thing that irks me a little about Danny Carey (or rather, his being subject to so much unmitigated fanboy-ism) is the fact that whenever you see him play, he always plays Tool songs. So he is never really out of his own comfort zone.

I would love to see him sit in with, say, the Bob Mintzer Big Band or play a show with Bela Fleck or Allan Holdsworth, where he would be called upon to improvise off the top of his head.

After that, I might be a fanboy too. :grin:


otek

[Johnny]

Carey's a lot like Peart. He has this thing that he does, and he's great at it. He's a part player--he thinks up something and that's how it goes from now on, and he just nails it every time.

You can really see Danny's tabla studies affecting his music over the last couple of records.

[Slipperman]

The Rene Creemers stuff is just great. He's all about making the instruments supposed "weak suit" into it's "strong suit". Very cool and always nice to see.

Danny Carey(like Neil Peart in his time) has certainly inspired a lot of kids to take up the instrument and PRACTICE.

For this, I think, we should be very grateful.

SM.

[otek]

Don't get me wrong - the stuff Carey does with Tool is innovative as far as a rock context goes, and he is certainly no slouch player.

It's just that when the 953rd kid comes up to you in the studio and starts fawning over how much greater Danny Carey and Mike Portnoy are than those boring old-fart drummers who "just, you know, keep time, duuuude"....

...I want to grab that bundle of Vic Firth 2Bs and shove it sideways up their rectum, one stick at a time.


otek

[jason baliban]

Don't get me wrong - the stuff Carey does with Tool is innovative as far as a rock context goes, and he is certainly no slouch player.

It's just that when the 953rd kid comes up to you in the studio and starts fawning over how much greater Danny Carey and Mike Portnoy are than those boring old-fart drummers who "just, you know, keep time, duuuude"....

...I want to grab that bundle of Vic Firth 2Bs and shove it sideways up their rectum, one stick at a time.


otek

Portnoy doesnt hold a candle to Carey. I say that even though i like more dream theater albums than tool albums. I dont think Portnoy has had an original percussive idea in his career. Carey, on the other hand, can lay back or dig in with a fantastic sense of appropriateness.

PLUS, everyone knows that Pro-Mark sticks are better for sideways rectal insertion;)

jB

[eagan]

I can't say much about this because I've never been there, but I understand that Carey does a kind of semi-casual fun side gig in an L.A. club with a core group of people and whoever shows up to sit in. It would be interesting to hear from people who have heard this.

I'm just pointing this out as something that comes to mind that makes me slightly question the bit about "never stepping out of his comfort zone" of his normal gig where he's been for many years.


JLE

[otek]

Portnoy doesnt hold a candle to Carey.

While I actually do agree with you on that point, you just kind of made my point for me... in a roundabout sort of way. :lol:


FanbOyTek

[Drummerboy]

I'm willing to bet that Benny Greb studied some Kremers in his past (who didn't? :Wink: ):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvBRTHxsXCw

Also, that room must be awesome to play in.

[John Eppstein]

Drum solas 'r all nice 'n that -

but the real question is:

How does he play in the context of a band?

Does he make people wanna MOVE?

[jason baliban]

While I actually do agree with you on that point, you just kind of made my point for me... in a roundabout sort of way. :lol:


FanbOyTek

Yes, i think we were on the same page here all along:)

jB

[Nutmeg]

That Greb guy does play good in context.

[dnafe]

Over the last couple of years I've watched dozens of videos by drummers who's speed, dexterity and independent coordination is truly mind boggling.

Don't get me wrong, it's a real treat to watch these guys play but in the grand scheme of things there seems to be something missing...then again maybe I'm just an old fart and jealous of their abilities.

Thoughts?

[otek]

That Greb guy does play good in context.

Greb is a fantastic groove drummer.

And from around your corner of the world, to boot (Augsburg). :D


otek

[Slipperman]

Over the last couple of years I've watched dozens of videos by drummers who's speed, dexterity and independent coordination is truly mind boggling.

Don't get me wrong, it's a real treat to watch these guys play but in the grand scheme of things there seems to be something missing...then again maybe I'm just an old fart and jealous of their abilities.

Thoughts?

Human frailty is one of the most endearing musical qualities in limited doses.

It is both a comforting, and expected, adornment on the cowling of "style".

SM.

[imagin]

Human frailty is one of the most endearing musical qualities in limited doses.

It is both a comforting, and expected, adornment on the cowling of "style".

SM.

:Thumbsup::Thumbsup::Thumbsup:

I love to feel that I could be listening in close quarters. That the performance is a personal thing. It just makes things so much more human, adds so much more power and emotion.

[jason baliban]

Dont leave Chad out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Dwkp8JlzA

jB

[Dave Perry]

John Bonham.

If you have Netflix, dial up TSRTS, fast forward through the cute stuff at the beginning, and prepare to be amazed by the concert. The way Bonham could fill in all the instrumental sonic space between Jones and Pagey, without using a zillion pieces in his kit, is pretty incredible.

[Colonel Nutsack]

Im a boom, blatt kind of drummer..Tony Thompson is a hero..amazing power and groove. Dony Wynn too..both of who played for a friend of mine. Matt Cameron inspires, technically clever but never forgets the song, so you can still nod to it. Keith Moon...pure energy and drumming that made no sense yet somehow worked..how the hell did he do that?!

[eagan]

Hmm.

Just thinking a second as I looked to see what was new, and something occurred to me.

I'm not sure if anybody mentioned Matt Chamberlain.

So.

Matt Chamberlain.

Right up there on my list of favorites.



JLE

[John Eppstein]

Has anybody mentioned Max Weinberg?

[Johnny]

Hmm.

Just thinking a second as I looked to see what was new, and something occurred to me.

I'm not sure if anybody mentioned Matt Chamberlain.

So.

Matt Chamberlain.

Right up there on my list of favorites.



JLE
Oh yeah! I saw him with New Bohemians on their first tour. Been a fan since. He was in the last Drumhead magazine, great interview.

[Jason Phair]

No love for Teddy Reinhardt?

He was the one solidly grounded motherfucker in that group of wank-asses.

He still kills...did monitors for him a few years ago and couldn't stop watching him slay everyone on a 4-piece.

[iCombs]

SERIOUSLY. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tTyTc6FjjU&feature=player_embedded)

JOE.

MORELLO.

[Fulcrum]

Weird that.. I'm used to Brubeck comping the piano figure under the drum solo. He didn't often just lay out the way he did in that vid.

Then again, I have a version someplace in which Morello didn't solo at all. Guess that's jazz for you.

Always loved Morello's stick control. Another example of that would be the post I put up last night in the Brubeck Turns 90 thread... oh it's around here someplace..

[Johnny]

Always loved Morello's stick control.

He DID study with this guy...

http://www.domfamularo.com/images/store/stick_control.jpg

[imagin]

I think he gave it all in this performance!

Michael Shrieve.

dLDalZ4-53g