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weedywet
February 14th, 2011, 04:46 AM
okay, it's official, this proves it:

the music business is dead


when Mick Jagger is the only decent thing on a tv show, the end has arrived.


plus, on a more technical (yawn) level: is it really necessary for every singer to be heard through the "bottom of the well" reverb preset?
Streisand, for fuck's sake? Streisand needs to be swimming in reverb?



p.s. Rihanna changed my mind - Autotune is necessary


can't we just replace all this crap with awards for hair stylists, costumers, and choreographers?

MudCat
February 14th, 2011, 04:54 AM
Agreed........but Mumford and Sons were great too.

weedywet
February 14th, 2011, 05:05 AM
and while I am ranting:

Lady Antebellum?

so the name of the band is essentially Lady Wasn't Slavery Cool?

iCombs
February 14th, 2011, 05:06 AM
All I know is that I'm glad that Lady Antebellum is killing it. That's a hell of a song.

It's sad to not see Cee-Lo's track pull something down...but that Lady Antebellum track is pretty damn good.

iCombs
February 14th, 2011, 05:16 AM
and while I am ranting:

Lady Antebellum?

so the name of the band is essentially Lady Wasn't Slavery Cool?

I'm not QUITE sure that's the sentiment behind it.

It could've been "Lady We Have Issues With Taxes and Tarriffs."

Also...am I the only one who was SEVERELY underwhelmed by The Arcade Fire?

Aardvark
February 14th, 2011, 05:27 AM
...am I the only one who was SEVERELY underwhelmed by The Arcade Fire?

Did not see the show but Arcade Fire are Canadian darlings who have mystified me for years as to why anyone thinks they are remotely the fecal residue so many think north of the 49th them to be.:headpalm:


Why does anyone in music who does not have a serious masochistic tendency bother to watch that show anyway?



Oh... did Jethro Tull win again in the heavy metal category?





Cheers,
StarlandvocalbandVArk





.

weedywet
February 14th, 2011, 05:28 AM
sure, the civil war wasn't about slavery

and World War II was about agricultural subsidies



given the choices, i was happy to see Arcade Fire win album of the year.
plus, in their favour, they thanked Montreal, and not 'god'


but it's still a depressing overall state of affairs

MudCat
February 14th, 2011, 05:47 AM
Did not see the show but Arcade Fire are Canadian darlings who have mystified me for years as to why anyone thinks they are remotely the fecal residue so many think north of the 49th them to be.:headpalm:






I love em..... I was introduced to them on Austin City Limits, and they kicked ass.......their first song tonight was horribly mixed, and whoever directed that sequence should be shot......at least a leg wound..... Horrible mix, and those strobe-ish lights were WAY overdone.

Their 2nd song (after winning Album of the Year) was at least a decent live mix.

But so much of it is just fluff now........a very small percentage of it has any real musical substance for me.........like, as I mentioned, Mumford and Sons.

At least Bieber didn't run away with everything, like Taylor Swift did last year (over the Dave Matthews Band?......hehe......sheesh.).

slau
February 14th, 2011, 06:00 AM
What is it they say about the definition of insanity? Something like, doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result? Well, here I am, tuning in to the Grammys… expecting them to be good…

Pimp-X
February 14th, 2011, 06:01 AM
Arcade Fire

Who?

CloseToTheEdge
February 14th, 2011, 06:26 AM
I have not watched the Grammies in many years. What is happening in those circles is totally depressing and does not resemble music to me.

I'm either a snob, or someone who knows his station in life.

Dave Perry
February 14th, 2011, 07:00 AM
sure, the civil war wasn't about slavery

and World War II was about agricultural subsidies




Well, let's see. This is a more complicated issue than you make out, but your criticism is understandable. There's been a lot of hurt Southern pride, well, since the Civil War, really, but it isn't all about slavery. A lot of it is just about "Gee we were once...sort of...a great region with affluence and style, etc."

Ironic, though, that unless the members of "Lady Antebellum" had been among the tiny percentage of wealthy land owners in the pre-CW South, they would have very likely been nearly as dirt poor as the average black person.

So did Fuck/Forget/Bleep You not win song of the year?

weedywet
February 14th, 2011, 07:19 AM
it's a major sidetrack, I admit, but still... a group called Germany in the 30's (you know, it was a lot more complicated ...) would still be a distasteful choice

Dave Perry
February 14th, 2011, 07:41 AM
Yea, but it isn't distasteful to most of their audience because there is a lot of tradition in the South that turns a blind eye to the horrors associated with the old economic system. It's irrational, but it's cultural, so it doesn't necessarily rest on any kind of bedrock of rationale. It's just grasping for some kind of old cultural identity that is mostly, if not completely imaginary.

weedywet
February 14th, 2011, 08:01 AM
that's what I said. the good ole days when slavery was cool

Dave Perry
February 14th, 2011, 08:22 AM
They don't see the slavery part---just the "good ole" part.

Damage, Inc.
February 14th, 2011, 08:27 AM
that's what I said. the good ole days when slavery was cool

Out on a limb here, but I'm guessing the vast majority of her fans:

1) Really DO romanticize the pre-war South;

2) Don't care enough to be offended by the reference;

3) Don't know what antebellum means.

Dave Perry
February 14th, 2011, 08:42 AM
I doubt most people in the South really think slavery was "cool", but they don't have a lot of guilt about it, just as most Germans and Japanese don't sit around feeling deep remorse about the atrocities committed by their forebears in the 30's and 40's.

Those historical "inconveniences" seem to do little to dampen national pride (or regional pride in the case of the southern US). They just get largely ignored in the warm light of romantic nostalgia.

Southerners who actually care at all about the distant past are probably more likely to fixate on the grandeur of the old plantation estates or the heroism of the great Civil War generals like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson.

John Eppstein
February 14th, 2011, 08:43 AM
Out on a limb here, but I'm guessing the vast majority of her fans:

1) Really DO romanticize the pre-war South;

2) Don't care enough to be offended by the reference;

3) Don't know what antebellum means.

Um, er, Lady Antebellum is a GROUP - two of whom are guys......

Dave Perry
February 14th, 2011, 08:45 AM
Um, er, Lady Antebellum is a GROUP - two of whom are guys......
Not his type of music, apparently. :grin:

G. Hoffman
February 14th, 2011, 09:04 AM
Other than watching to see the Police when they were on it, I don't think I've watched the Grammys in at least a decade. It just isn't relevant to the music I listen to, and never really has been. Every now and then they will have something OK, but I realized it was pointless when I learned that Elvis Costello lost best new artist to the Starline Vocal Band, and realize that is pretty much what happens in every category, every year. Most of the time, the people who should win a Grammy aren't even nominated.


Gabriel

Chris Lambrechts
February 14th, 2011, 09:53 AM
pffft ... theyr'e not even being transmitted or hardly catch the news here in Euroland.

At least the superbowl is and if that last halftime show is any reference then I suppose it is to be considered a good thing it is not being transmitted.

As for Arcade Fire ... saw them a couple of times on festivals round here. Good band. Good energy on stage. Well deserved win imo.

Chris

tannoy
February 14th, 2011, 11:26 AM
Is it just me or is Lady Gaga's new tune sounding somewhat similar to Madonna's 'express yourself' ?

(Yeah, right...you actually have to listen to her new creation to judge that, I'm sorry for that..)

i7nJHKiZMjI

Marco

TubaSolo
February 14th, 2011, 11:28 AM
Esperanza Spalding won something.

Isn't that good news, at least?!

J.G.
February 14th, 2011, 11:38 AM
^^ I'd say so!

All is not lost.

: J

clicktrack
February 14th, 2011, 11:42 AM
Esperanza Spalding won something.

Isn't that good news, at least?!

Thats fantastic news!

Wide-O
February 14th, 2011, 11:43 AM
At least the superbowl is and if that last halftime show is any reference then I suppose it is to be considered a good thing it is not being transmitted.

That's because we have the Eurosong Festival Chris. Even Dana International is going to make a come-back this year. :vuvu:

Goes211
February 14th, 2011, 11:49 AM
That's because we have the Eurosong Festival Chris. Even Dana International is going to make a come-back this year. :vuvu:

Oh, shut up.
:headpalm:

Wide-O
February 14th, 2011, 02:05 PM
Oh, shut up.
:headpalm:

Grumpy! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

(I've just been hysterically laughing for 15 minutes now)

Sorry, I wasn't thinking. I'll now go ban myself. :grin:

radiationroom
February 14th, 2011, 03:47 PM
This is the first time I've watched the Grammies in years and that was only because my wife decided to watch it. And even then I didn't watch the whole thing cuz I kept going downstairs for beer breaks. Lady Gaga was a big yawn; so was Eminem & Dr. Dre. Totally missed Katy Perry and my wife changed channels during the Bob Dylan segment. Tuned back in for Striesand and Jagger and Weedy is right that the Jagger segment was the best part of the show or at least what I saw of it.

I were the one writing the playlist for the show I would have included acts like Derek Trucks, Branford Marsalis, Calexico, The North Mississippi All Stars, The Roots, and others not normally heard on the radio. But CBS's focus-group mooks would have probably nixed all of them so....... :Confused:

gonzo-x
February 14th, 2011, 04:40 PM
i saw a lot of really weak sh!t....


i mean, really.


the few bright lights, like spaldings new artist award (she's been around for several years, WHY is she a 'new' artist?) and barbara's reading of that terribly smaltzy evergreen song was wonderful...

but arcade fire?
give me a break.

jerryskid
February 14th, 2011, 05:47 PM
Both of my Grammies have been dead for years, so I don't want to talk about them......:Roll eyes:

ManRoom Studio
February 14th, 2011, 06:18 PM
There was a time when all I wanted was to win a Grammy - until they gave one to Vanilla Ice... Vanilla Ice, whose primary talent was plagiarism. At that point, winning a Grammy lost all meaning to me. And if you frame it in the knowledge that previously, musicians such as Jascha Heifitz were given the award, which implies Heifitz and V-Ice are equals . . . well, it rankles all the more.

Also, I'm right there with Weedy on the whole "thanking god for my Grammy" bit, which always sent me into apoplectic seizure. I mean, monumental Narcissistic conceit aside—and forgetting natural disasters; famine; war; children dying of cancer and being otherwise victimized; fatal and debilitating diseases of all kinds; more and more species becoming extinct; stars going super nova, wiping out entire galaxies; the economic raping of the middle class and poor; and etc., etc., etc.;—along with the bad music, I have to hear that god loves them best—and subsequently took time out from his busy day renovating the universe, making planets, inventing life forms, and destroying worlds, to personally see to it that Vanilla Ice gets a Grammy. Then again, a guy who doesn't sing, can't play an instrument, and doesn't write music wins the world's most prestigious musical achievement award. I'd call that an "Act of God," wouldn't you?

Besides, everyone knows that the best musicians come from, well... the other fellow...

Meanwhile, I heard that Lady Gaga was going be shooting flames from betwixt her nethers . . . perhaps I should reconsider my harsh stance on mainstream music. After all, risking singed girl parts in the name of one's art is truly commendable. :headpalm:


The ManRoom

"Theirs goes, 'Ding, ding, ding, dingy-ding-ding;' while our goes Ding, ding, ding, ding, dingy-ding-ding.' See? It's totally different." — Vanilla Ice

weedywet
February 14th, 2011, 06:24 PM
I doubt most people in the South really think slavery was "cool", but they don't have a lot of guilt about it, just as most Germans and Japanese don't sit around feeling deep remorse about the atrocities committed by their forebears in the 30's and 40's.

Those historical "inconveniences" seem to do little to dampen national pride (or regional pride in the case of the southern US). They just get largely ignored in the warm light of romantic nostalgia.

Southerners who actually care at all about the distant past are probably more likely to fixate on the grandeur of the old plantation estates or the heroism of the great Civil War generals like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson.

you're kind of making my point.
I think Germans and Japanese have the taste and sense to not name their bands after the glorious eras of their atrocities.
not so apparently with southern Americans.

Johnny
February 14th, 2011, 07:11 PM
Uh...

MUSE?!?!? Hello?

That was the only reason I watched.

tannoy
February 14th, 2011, 07:17 PM
pffft ... theyr'e not even being transmitted or hardly catch the news here in Euroland.



Except for Germany, they were airing the show live. So I decided to watch it. Good decision. :Confused:


Marco

DPower
February 14th, 2011, 07:39 PM
Came across this gem:

http://whoisarcadefire.tumblr.com/

Is it me, or does there seem to be a one to one correlation between people who cannot write basic sentences in English, and people who have no idea who Arcade Fire is, and are upset Lady Gaga didn't win?

I didn't catch their Grammy performance, but I have seen Arcade Fire live before, and they absolutely blew me away.

KungFuLio
February 14th, 2011, 08:29 PM
I'd be curious of those that are complaining...
1) are you a NARAS member?
if yes
2) did you vote?
if yes
3) did you actually listen to the music you were voting for?

dwoz
February 14th, 2011, 08:42 PM
Noticed one or two things...


First, there was noticeable animosity toward using the grammys to plug the justin bieber movie that came out, about 2 days ago.

Second, Dylan's mic was off when he stepped in front of that banjo chorus. May have been an aesthetic choice. He seemed perturbed that he had to step over a bass neck to get to his mic.

Music? there was music on the show?

gonzo-x
February 14th, 2011, 09:19 PM
KUDOS


Hard rock performance:
"New Fang" – Them Crooked Vultures

CloseToTheEdge
February 14th, 2011, 09:53 PM
Grammy's relationship to
musicians deserving awards

is equal to

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's relationship
to musicians deserving awards

in other words, no relationship whatsoever

gonzo-x
February 14th, 2011, 09:55 PM
the unsung GOOD STUFF from the grammy awards:


Hard rock performance:
"New Fang" – Them Crooked Vultures

major kudos !!!!!!!!!!




plus a few of my favorites:


Pop instrumental performance:
"Nessun Dorma" – Jeff Beck

Metal performance:
"El Dorado" – Iron Maiden

Rock instrumental performance:
"Hammerhead" – Jeff Beck

Female R&B vocal performance:
"Bittersweet" – Fantasia

Contemporary jazz album:
"The Stanley Clarke Band" – The Stanley Clarke Band

Contemporary blues album:
"Living Proof" – Buddy Guy

Contemporary world music album:
"Throw Down Your Heart , Africa Sessions Part 2: Unreleased Tracks" – Béla Fleck

Dave Perry
February 14th, 2011, 11:43 PM
you're kind of making my point.


And you're missing mine. I guarantee you very few young to middle-aged Japanese people have any remorse whatsoever about the 30's through the mid '40's in Japan, which means it wouldn't necessarily be an issue of bad taste to think wistfully about the greatness of the former "Japanese Empire". At least not in Japan. That wouldn't play too well in Korea or China, but if they tried it and it failed miserably, they would just kind of go "whoops".

In Germany you can't do it but that may primarily be because it's illegal. I personally suspect there are a lot of Germans who have some degree of admiration for Hitler still, and not because he killed Jews, but because they think he was an impressive, strong, and determined leader figure.

You're forgetting the intense human tendency to compartmentalize concepts and attitudes about things.

You're also disregarding the fact that slavery in the US is practically "ancient history" by now, in that it hasn't existed since 1865. That much time can blur the clarity of people's sense of reality, thus meaning that musing about the greatness of that era, again, doesn't necessarily register as bad taste because no one is still alive to have a clear memory of what it was really like. I think you're overreacting to people romanticizing the past. I'm arguing that you can't take romantic attitudes about a 150 year old era that literally.

weedywet
February 15th, 2011, 12:10 AM
And you're missing mine. I guarantee you very few young to middle-aged Japanese people have any remorse whatsoever about the 30's through the mid '40's in Japan, which means it wouldn't necessarily be an issue of bad taste to think wistfully about the greatness of the former "Japanese Empire". At least not in Japan. That wouldn't play too well in Korea or China, but if they tried it and it failed miserably, they would just kind of go "whoops".

In Germany you can't do it but that may primarily be because it's illegal. I personally suspect there are a lot of Germans who have some degree of admiration for Hitler still, and not because he killed Jews, but because they think he was an impressive, strong, and determined leader figure.

You're forgetting the intense human tendency to compartmentalize concepts and attitudes about things.

You're also disregarding the fact that slavery in the US is practically "ancient history" by now, in that it hasn't existed since 1865. That much time can blur the clarity of people's sense of reality, thus meaning that musing about the greatness of that era, again, doesn't necessarily register as bad taste because no one is still alive to have a clear memory of what it was really like. I think you're overreacting to people romanticizing the past. I'm arguing that you can't take romantic attitudes about a 150 year old era that literally.



romanticising a particular aspect of the past.
like the third reich

spent much time in Germany or Japan?
I think your assessment is completely wrong.
Unlike the south, they're not pining for the good old nazi and empire days.
Visit the Hiroshima Peace museum sometime and tell me if they don't take full responsibility for their part in the war, in an honest unflinching way Americans would never in, say, a Sept 11 museum.
And outside of a tiny number neo-nazis, you'd be extremely hard pressed to find Germans who have anything at all good to say about Hitler or those days.
They don't think they just got a bad deal; they know they were simply on the wrong side of that one.

It's about time southern Americans said that outloud to themselves.

the only good thing about the "old south" is that it's defeated and over.

nobby
February 15th, 2011, 12:38 AM
In Germany you can't do it but that may primarily be because it's illegal. I personally suspect there are a lot of Germans who have some degree of admiration for Hitler still, and not because he killed Jews, but because they think he was an impressive, strong, and determined leader figure.

who brought their country to ruin. Maybe a few are, but most of the people who admire Hitler are white supremacists, and I think we have more of them here in the US than in Germany. My mother had a relative who was a clergyman in Germany during WWII. People were begging him to get them out of registering with the Nazi party (you couldn't be a school teacher without joining) but there was nothing he could do.


You're also disregarding the fact that slavery in the US is practically "ancient history" by now, in that it hasn't existed since 1865.

I think that depends on whom you talk to about it.



That much time can blur the clarity of people's sense of reality, thus meaning that musing about the greatness of that era, again, doesn't necessarily register as bad taste because no one is still alive to have a clear memory of what it was really like.

You can actually get a pretty good picture from books, tv programs and museum exhibits. BTW it's Black History Month, FWIW.

nobby
February 15th, 2011, 12:46 AM
I haven't watched the grammys (ies?) in years. The ratio of music to wasted time is too low.

Waltz Mastering
February 15th, 2011, 01:09 AM
my wife changed channels during the Bob Dylan segment.
You didn't miss much.. Dylan sounded like he had been gargling razor blades...

Colonel Nutsack
February 15th, 2011, 01:22 AM
They showed a clip on the news here with some idiot being carried in in a plastic fucking egg....

Keks
February 15th, 2011, 08:36 AM
And you're missing mine. I guarantee you very few young to middle-aged Japanese people have any remorse whatsoever about the 30's through the mid '40's in Japan, which means it wouldn't necessarily be an issue of bad taste to think wistfully about the greatness of the former "Japanese Empire".

As a young to middle aged German I can assure you I have no remorse whatsoever about the 30's through the mid 40's in Germany.
But I regard it utterly tasteless to think wistfully about "das Drittte Reich".

And that's a pretty common attitude over here.
An a pretty sane one, if you ask me.

All the best,
the keks

Tyrus
February 15th, 2011, 09:25 AM
Came across this gem:

http://whoisarcadefire.tumblr.com/

Is it me, or does there seem to be a one to one correlation between people who cannot write basic sentences in English, and people who have no idea who Arcade Fire is, and are upset Lady Gaga didn't win?

I didn't catch their Grammy performance, but I have seen Arcade Fire live before, and they absolutely blew me away.

Granted the Urban music community would shun away groups such as Arcade fire, look to the nearest white dude and go "who are these guys?"

And in all reality, The Suburbs was a far better ALBUM than Relapse, Teenage Dream, or the Fame Monster.

But the twitter backlash is sounding downright ignorant.

I mean, the music market is turning to singles anyways, are "customers" already forgetting what an album really is?

Part of me felt refreshed to learn that in a lot of these categories, its not a win on popularity.

Like Spaulding winning over Bieber in best new artist. That was the bigger curveball in the whole thing.

Dave Perry
February 15th, 2011, 09:44 AM
romanticising a particular aspect of the past.
like the third reich

spent much time in Germany or Japan?
I think your assessment is completely wrong.
Unlike the south, they're not pining for the good old nazi and empire days.


I haven't spent time in Japan, but I have close friends who have lived there and I have corresponded with others who have. Did you not notice that Japan had to make a serious effort to get itself to apologize to China a few years back? Why? Because they are not particularly interested in facing the facts of what their forebears did there.

And yes, there are Japanese who miss the Empire days. They have rallies in the streets, and it isn't that uncommon.

But that was beside my point. I was saying that it doesn't necessarily imply a deliberate callous insensitivity to those issues for younger people (like the members of Lady Antebellum) to romanticize a past they have little clear understanding of.

Is it wrong to romanticize a brutal past and choose to be blind to the things that went on below some kind of polished surface image? Of course.

Is this in some way, in any way confined or endemic to the American South? Absolutely not.

MacGregor
February 15th, 2011, 09:47 AM
You didn't miss much.. Dylan sounded like he had been gargling razor blades...

He sounds always like this. I would have been frightened if he'd suddenly sounded like a real singer.

Mac
.

Dave Perry
February 15th, 2011, 10:08 AM
As a young to middle aged German I can assure you I have no remorse whatsoever about the 30's through the mid 40's in Germany.
But I regard it utterly tasteless to think wistfully about "das Drittte Reich".

And that's a pretty common attitude over here.
An a pretty sane one, if you ask me.

All the best,
the keks

Look---I'm not trying to claim you or anyone you know wishes Hitler would return. If it sounded like I was saying that, I apologize for not being more careful with how I worded what I said. I don't know very much about the situation in modern Germany with respect to the War.

I do know for a fact from talking to people over there that most young poeple in Japan have no understanding whatsoever of the magnatude of the atrocities by the Japanese Army against various other countires in Asia in WWII.

And, personally, I don't find that particularly outrageous or offensive. In fact, I think it's understandable. After all, it wasn't their war, they didn't start it and they didn't fight in it, nor did most or all of their parents.

It is however their country, and they have a reasonable right to want to feel proud of where they come from. If they have to look back with some kind of revisionist view in order to avoid feeling shitty about their homeland, I can't deny them that indulgence.

I feel the same way about Lady Antebellum. Yes, their name is silly and not particularly bright, but I would ask this---has there been a general uproar in the American press about this? Have there been broad based complaints coming from states outside of the South?

If so, then I'll agree that the name may be offensive. Otherwise, I think it's evidence that it isn't generally offensive, and that people don't take this very seriously, since it's just the name of some two bit country-pop band.

Dave Perry
February 15th, 2011, 10:42 AM
who brought their country to ruin. Maybe a few are, but most of the people who admire Hitler are white supremacists, and I think we have more of them here in the US than in Germany. My mother had a relative who was a clergyman in Germany during WWII. People were begging him to get them out of registering with the Nazi party (you couldn't be a school teacher without joining) but there was nothing he could do.

A graduate student of my father's had German immigrant parents and I talked with her mother for a while when they were over at dinner one night. I brought up Albert Speer because I wanted to ask her---how did a man as sensitive and erudite as Speer end up becoming Hitler's right hand man (his real right hand man that helped Germany extend the war by probably a year---not like those idiots Bormann and Hess). I also asked her about Leni Riefenstahl. How did this interesting and talented woman become one of the major propaganda arms of the Nazi machine?

The woman grabbed my arm and pulled me down to sit on the couch, where she essentially poured her heart out. It was a very interesting and complicated picture she painted. I came away from it knowing that this woman, who claimed to have been part of a family that helped Jews escape during the war, did not actually blame Hitler for the atrocities. At least not completely. She said it was mostly because of the corruption of the people around him that so much devastation happened during the war. Trust me, this elderly woman was no neo-Nazi.

This gets to the heart of my point even more. I told my father what she had said (my father grew up during the war, in Oakridge, Tennessee of all places---where they built the atom bomb, and is one of the most ardent Nazi haters you'll meet) and I could see his face going red, because he was convinced he'd had a Nazi sympathizing German in his house.

Not so, as far as I was concerned. She just didn't want to believe that a man her family had actually strongly opposed, could have been that evil and destructive, and that so many Germans had willingly followed him. And so she chose not to.

She knew what had happened, and yet, at the same time she didn't know because the total realization would have been far too painful to bear, even for a person that didn't directly participate in supporting it.

Keks
February 15th, 2011, 11:27 AM
The woman grabbed my arm and pulled me down to sit on the couch, where she essentially poured her heart out. It was a very interesting and complicated picture she painted. I came away from it knowing that this woman, who claimed to have been part of a family that helped Jews escape during the war, did not actually blame Hitler for the atrocities. At least not completely. She said it was mostly because of the corruption of the people around him that so much devastation happened during the war. Trust me, this elderly woman was no neo-Nazi.


It is a very complicated story indeed.
And it is overly simplistic to think that Hitler did all evil himself,
and that he got a "grip" on a mass of dull people.
Anyway, I'm sure that a forum ain't the right place for this subthread of a discussion.


Yes, their name is silly and not particularly bright, but I would ask this---has there been a general uproar in the American press about this? Have there been broad based complaints coming from states outside of the South?

If so, then I'll agree that the name may be offensive. Otherwise, I think it's evidence that it isn't generally offensive, and that people don't take this very seriously, since it's just the name of some two bit country-pop band.

So, if only a minority group of people finds something offensive,
then it is basically not offensive?
Or just "partially offensive"?
:Roll eyes:

Dunno.
Sounds like a flawed concept to me.

all the best,
the keks

MudCat
February 15th, 2011, 08:51 PM
I have to address this ridiculous discussion about the name 'Lady Antebellum' and slavery....


WeedyWet...


I was born and raised here in Memphis, which is obviously embedded deeply in the south...but my father was from NY, as were my grandparents and northern cousins. My southern family here is huge, and we were all raised NOT to be prejudiced to any race from day one. This is the case with MOST people I've known here all my life.

I am a perceptive guy, and I have observed the 'race thing' all my life from both a southern and northern objective.

The word 'antebellum' refers to a PRE-civil war period, as well as a form of architecture from that period. I can tell you that MOST southerners relate it to the architecture definition, as in 'antebellum homes', which are still scattered about the south. If you Wiki it, you'll see no mention of slavery. Others may relate it to the period, but never in a racist way.

They are two separate things, unless one chooses to make 'antebellum' a racist term because slavery existed at that time, which is the case in this thread. All the people who condoned slavery from the Civil War era are long DEAD, and were so long before I was even born. So I have and feel no connection with slavery, and certainly feel no guilt because of my race or geographical location.

I assure you, the band 'Lady Antebellum' has nothing to do with the idea of slavery, and to suggest so is wreckless and actually feeds racism itself.

I jammed last night with some white men and some black men, which I do often these days....at night's end, we all hugged like brothers, and it was heartfelt. My real brother works and plays sports with white men and black men who are his friends, with never a thought of racism.......when the black lady next door can't afford to have her lawn mowed, I mow it for her. My Uncle Charlie, a Mississippi 'redneck' in appearance and manner, has worked in Africa for the last decade helping poor black people there to even survive, and he does it for FREE. It's now his life's mission, and he is known there as 'Papa Charlie'.......and on and on.




So WeedyWet.......when you grossly over-generalize, as in 'the south needs to blah, blah, blah...', you're surely smart enough to know that that is a wreckless and offensive statement........Racism itself is certainly not exclusive to the South...............this thread was about the Grammys, and he only person I've ever heard of with a problem about using the word 'antebellum' is you...here or anywhere else to my knowledge. Sometimes you seem to post just to hear yourself talk, and my advice is to refrain from doing that.

-Roy Howell

Mick Stuart
February 15th, 2011, 10:29 PM
Never mind the semantics of “antebellum”.

How does one conclude that Jagger, going off like a broken record, toped the night? :Thumbdown:

nobby
February 15th, 2011, 11:09 PM
II can tell you that MOST southerners relate it to the architecture definition, as in 'antebellum homes', which are still scattered about the south.

That doesn't come up often in the North among people who aren't into architecture. I knew that (but forgot).

I'm typing from a 'Victorian' house but I would hardly be descibed as Victorian.

Nobby Victorian... nah!

One thing that does bring controversy is the stars and bars -- the Confederate flag.


As a result of these varying perceptions, there have been a number of political controversies surrounding the use of the Confederate flag in Southern state flags, at sporting events, at Southern universities, and on public buildings. According to Civil War historian and native Southerner Shelby Foote, the flag traditionally represented the South's resistance to Northern political dominance; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 1960s, when fighting against desegregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance.

Symbols of the Confederacy remain a contentious issue across the United States and their civic placement has been debated vigorously in many Southern state legislatures since the 1990s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

weedywet
February 15th, 2011, 11:59 PM
I have to address this ridiculous discussion about the name 'Lady Antebellum' and slavery....


WeedyWet...


I was born and raised here in Memphis, which is obviously embedded deeply in the south...but my father was from NY, as were my grandparents and northern cousins. My southern family here is huge, and we were all raised NOT to be prejudiced to any race from day one. This is the case with MOST people I've known here all my life.

I am a perceptive guy, and I have observed the 'race thing' all my life from both a southern and northern objective.

The word 'antebellum' refers to a PRE-civil war period, as well as a form of architecture from that period. I can tell you that MOST southerners relate it to the architecture definition, as in 'antebellum homes', which are still scattered about the south. If you Wiki it, you'll see no mention of slavery. Others may relate it to the period, but never in a racist way.

They are two separate things, unless one chooses to make 'antebellum' a racist term because slavery existed at that time, which is the case in this thread. All the people who condoned slavery from the Civil War era are long DEAD, and were so long before I was even born. So I have and feel no connection with slavery, and certainly feel no guilt because of my race or geographical location.

I assure you, the band 'Lady Antebellum' has nothing to do with the idea of slavery, and to suggest so is wreckless and actually feeds racism itself.

I jammed last night with some white men and some black men, which I do often these days....at night's end, we all hugged like brothers, and it was heartfelt. My real brother works and plays sports with white men and black men who are his friends, with never a thought of racism.......when the black lady next door can't afford to have her lawn mowed, I mow it for her. My Uncle Charlie, a Mississippi 'redneck' in appearance and manner, has worked in Africa for the last decade helping poor black people there to even survive, and he does it for FREE. It's now his life's mission, and he is known there as 'Papa Charlie'.......and on and on.




So WeedyWet.......when you grossly over-generalize, as in 'the south needs to blah, blah, blah...', you're surely smart enough to know that that is a wreckless and offensive statement........Racism itself is certainly not exclusive to the South...............this thread was about the Grammys, and he only person I've ever heard of with a problem about using the word 'antebellum' is you...here or anywhere else to my knowledge. Sometimes you seem to post just to hear yourself talk, and my advice is to refrain from doing that.

-Roy Howell

My advice is to stop short of being overtly nasty to other forum members. Including me.
I'm not going to suggest that you posted that long response to "hear" yourself talk, or that it's because the idea that a name like that is offensive so clearly struck a nerve and made you defensive.


I'm playing right now with three African American musicians from Memphis. I'm going to bet they find the name a little cringe able.

And I don't have to guess, I already know they find racism down there far from over and dead and a non- issue.

The only reason more people are NOT overtly offended by the name is that they don't really know what it means.

It's like calling a band Vichy France. They had such cool architecture...

In some cases there was a clear cut right side to be on.
Guess who wasn't?

nobby
February 16th, 2011, 12:24 AM
And now for some comic relief.

rNXj-SCx5dY

iCombs
February 16th, 2011, 12:26 AM
It's like calling a band Vichy France. They had such cool architecture...

At this point, I really think this is all much ado about nothing...as if the name of a band is enough to define an entire ideology surrounding that band.

I mean, if we were to start digging into all band names this way...what in the hell would we do with "The Goo Goo Dolls" or "The Killers?" "Anal Blast" and "Goatwhore" would be fun ones to dig into as well. "The Dead Kennedys" isn't offensive on its face?

And God forbid we should look back on the past and see it for BOTH its successes and its failures...because slavery was the ONLY legacy the South had...right? I mean...if one lived south of the Mason-Dixon line in Antebellum times, they were basically FORCED to have slaves...right?

I'm thinking that this has been distilled so far as to be something of a straw man. There's FAR more that goes into a picture of the Antebellum South than just slavery and to assume that "Antebellum" ONLY conjures up images of slavery is more than a stretch...I think it's something of a fallacy.

MudCat
February 16th, 2011, 12:52 AM
I was hoping you were just going to apologize, which I would have accepted completely, but...



My advice is to stop short of being overtly nasty to other forum members. Including me.

I am not overtly nasty to anybody here, so that makes no sense.....you're babbling.......if you consider my post to YOU as being overtly nasty, in response to your utter BS here, then so be it.




I'm playing right now with three African American musicians from Memphis. I'm going to bet they find the name a little cringe able.

Congratulations.........but "I'm gonna bet they find..." doesn't cut it....ask them before posting back, but be sure and tell them the definition of 'antebellum' first, and that it has nothing to do with slavery......and that this whole idea was YOURs in the first place. [I] am willing to bet they've never given it a second thought.
[/QUOTE]


And I don't have to guess, I already know they find racism down there far from over and dead and a non- issue.



AGAIN, racism is not exclusive to 'down here'.....to suggest so is inane.....you want us to assume it doesn't exist just as much or more where YOU are?......Pleeease.



The only reason more people are NOT overtly offended by the name is that they don't really know what it means.

I explained what it means in my first post, and it has nothing to do with slavery......YOU brought that into it.



Now, before you go further.....step back......look at the subject of this thread and look at what you're turning it into......you've made some unwarranted, offensive remarks not to ONE person, but to a large chunk of the USA..........understood from both of us that racism=bad.........but it has nothing to do with the word, 'antebellum', and to suggest so and drag the entire SOUTH in on it is ridiculous.

So, be big...............apologize and drop it.


-Roy Howell

iCombs
February 16th, 2011, 12:57 AM
"The Dead Kennedys " was intended to be offensive.

Yeah...after I posted it i realized they are something of an exception in that they're one of those bands where you CAN really define their ethos by their name alone...

Nonetheless...they stand as a shining example of a band name that's offensive.

weedywet
February 16th, 2011, 02:09 AM
Yes dead kennnedys was intentionally offensive

Just like lady antebellum

Or at least in both cases, they don't CARE that it is offensive

Droolbucket
February 16th, 2011, 02:46 AM
The first time I heard of the band Bon Jovi, I thought it was a tongue-in-cheek name:

'Bon', French for 'good', and 'Jovi', as in the Roman god 'Jove'.

Literally, I thought the band name was 'Good God'.

Turns out I was wrong. Who knew?

:headpalm:

But the Romans had every right to be mortally offended.

E. Shaun
February 16th, 2011, 03:26 AM
Who gets offended by a band name? I mean...seriously?

Last I checked, the music is what matters.

Some of my favorite bands have pretty dumb names. Some of those names might be interpreted as "offensive" by certain folks. Why do we care?

iCombs
February 16th, 2011, 03:48 AM
Yes dead kennnedys was intentionally offensive

Just like lady antebellum

Or at least in both cases, they don't CARE that it is offensive
I think that at this point, you're just being obtuse.

I'll put it in the simplest terms I can, as I've been thinking about this from a logical point of view...and I'll say this:

Is there a CORRELATION between the Antebellum South and slavery? Yes.

Can you equate "antebellum" with "slavery?" No. There is such a thing as the Antebellum North, after all...and there were plenty of southerners who didn't own slaves and didn't participate in the horrible racism that was associated with that.

Logically speaking, there is simply too much else going on for the relationship to be a direct equivalence. Your refusal to recognize this basic fact tells me that at this point, you're just stirring the pot.

E. Shaun
February 16th, 2011, 04:05 AM
And in other news, Barack Obama's middle name is Hussein. Discuss.

weedywet
February 16th, 2011, 04:06 AM
Sorry, my feelings about the old south are about the same as my feelings about Nazi Germany.

So evoking those "good old days" reminds me how I feel about it.

You can call your band Dachau if you want, but you shouldn't be surprised that some people find it offensive.
If that's lady slavery's goal, then they have succeeded.

E. Shaun
February 16th, 2011, 04:15 AM
So by that argument, you must hate the Dixie Chicks too?

iCombs
February 16th, 2011, 04:26 AM
Sorry, my feelings about the old south are about the same as my feelings about Nazi Germany.

So evoking those "good old days" reminds me how I feel about it.

You can call your band Dachau if you want, but you shouldn't be surprised that some people find it offensive.
If that's lady slavery's goal, then they have succeeded.
It's fine that YOU find it offensive...you're treading a tenuous path, though, when you ascribe the things that you find offensive about that name TO the people who've used it and been offensive unwittingly...that's at the very least awfully unjust to some--most probably--completely decent people.

In some ways...this reminds me a bit of the scrap over the band 311's name...as there are some white supremacist outfits who use 3-11 to represent the KKK...as "K" is the 11th letter of the alphabet. However, when you look into the band's overarching message of unity...that kinda falls on its face. As it turns out...311 is also Omaha, NE police code for "indecent exposure;" a ticket that one of the band's early guitarists pulled down while skinny dipping.

I guess I can't make the leap you're making as far as looking at this sort of thing in such absolute terms because, unlike "Dachau" or "Vichy France," there ARE other connotations that come along with "Antebellum" that to ignore or dismiss do a fair amount of injustice to those who didn't use the term with racism or slavery in mind.

nobby
February 16th, 2011, 04:40 AM
Lady N_____ would be offensive.

iCombs
February 16th, 2011, 04:43 AM
Lady N_____ would be offensive.

Especially if it were a band of skinheads.

Aardvark
February 16th, 2011, 05:23 AM
While we edge ourselves back to civility I might posit a thought towards the word antebellum in terms of ingrained associations and standard definitions..

...
an·te·bel·lum (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/antebellum)

adj \ˌan-ti-ˈbe-ləm\
Definition of ANTEBELLUM

: existing before a war; especially : existing before the American Civil War

Origin of ANTEBELLUM

Latin ante bellum before the warFirst Known Use: circa 1847


...


Where I grew up in Canada the word was a clear pointer to the world of the old South prior to the Northern hostilities as it were.

Now, where I grew up we were also taught that a big reason for the hostilities was the issue of slavery and that the South were on the wrong side of history in this respect.

Not too far off there?


If I had grown up in the house of an architect somewhere in the deep south it is very possible that the word antebellum would always bring a different picture to my eye or at least a different first picture. That same architect's son might well think a cornice to be something quite different from what a powder-head in Vail thinks it to be.


I have no problem believing Lady Antebellum took a left turn with this name somewhere between "no idea what you are talking about" and "Now that you tell me what you are talking about are you kidding me?".

Folks from the South look back at their kin and culture and see much, more than slavery. Where they come from the word antebellum seems less attached to slavery in colloquiall usage and not as 'loaded' as it is where I come from.


Cheers,
Aardvark


.

iCombs
February 16th, 2011, 08:12 AM
Thanks, Aardy!


BTW, I think that "Dachau" would be a GREAT name for a Jewish punk band.....

They'd have to be like...straight edge hardcore, too...no smoke, no drink, no fuck kinda guys.

Bivouac
February 16th, 2011, 08:13 AM
Didn't watch the Grammy's (of course), but was sort of blown away by the Arcade Fire winning album of the year. I guarantee you it's the only occurrence in my lifetime where I've purposely bought an album that was recognized by NARAS.

Is "The Suburbs" Arcade Fire's best record? No.

Is the general music listening public a good seven years too late in discovering this band? Uh, yeah.

Did they pick two songs that are about as poorly representative of their sound as possible? Definitely. Fun songs in context? Yeah, but that's not how the act should be known.

But it is a good record by a phenomenal band, who are just an absolutely surreal experience live. And the most important thing to consider is that they're on a completely independent record and built their reputation from the ground up through simply playing music. First saw 'em playing a 200 capacity club on a stage that couldn't even fit the band. Three years later, they headlined Red Rocks, and now a Grammy award? I never would have thought while spinning their first EP in 2004...

Keks
February 16th, 2011, 10:07 AM
While we edge ourselves back to civility I might posit a thought towards the word antebellum in terms of ingrained associations and standard definitions..

...
an·te·bel·lum (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/antebellum)

adj \ˌan-ti-ˈbe-ləm\
Definition of ANTEBELLUM

: existing before a war; especially : existing before the American Civil War

Origin of ANTEBELLUM

Latin ante bellum before the warFirst Known Use: circa 1847




You must not forget that band names are not about standard definitions, but about evoking emotions,
in this case of good old times of prior greatness,
not the piss poor white sods without slaves that surely existed at that time, too.

And I think that words like antebellum have different connotations in different contexts, so I think that weedy has a point,
in spite of his abrasive style of putting it.

Just one last example to illustrate that,
it would be perfectly valid to say that the Reichsparteitag in Nürnberg was built Nazi-style,
but imagine a band named Lady Nazi-style.

I don't want to blame all southerners to be racist slave drivers,
and I won't go so far to blame the guys and gals of Lady Antebellum to deliberately choose a name with racist connotations,
I'm sure that they did not think about that,
but some, uhm, Fingerspitzengefühl for connotations and context wouldn't hurt either.
But perhaps this is just a second nature for me 'cause I'm a Kraut.

All the best,
the keks

TubaSolo
February 16th, 2011, 10:18 AM
You can bet your bippy that Jello Biafra cares about being offensive.

"Holiday in Cambodia"?

"California Uber Alles"

the famous poster of Diane Feinstein raping the Statue of Liberty?

Oh, yes, he cares very much about being offensive.

Remember "Belsen Was a Gas" by the Sex Pistols?

Being offensive, shocking the bourgeois, is a punk tradition, hence a rock and roll tradition. Nothing wrong with it, sympathy for the devil and all that.

A bunch of guys called "Lady Antebellum"? That could as well be a reference to Vivien Leigh in "Gone With The Wind", or Marlene Dietrich in "Blue Angel".

Would calling my band "Sergeant Pepper" make me pro-military?

It shoudn't, but maybe in our current politically correct world it does... kind of absurd if you ask me, but the debate is interesting.

nobby
February 16th, 2011, 04:20 PM
Thanks, Aardy!


BTW, I think that "Dachau" would be a GREAT name for a Jewish punk band.....

lZuX8mZVCX8

Fulcrum
February 16th, 2011, 05:34 PM
A bunch of guys called "Lady Antebellum"?

Well.. two guys, one girl.

Playing what amounts to American Idol-level pop music with Stetsons.

I find that concept offensive.

ManRoom Studio
February 16th, 2011, 06:39 PM
Well.. two guys, one girl.

Lady Unclebellum?


The ManRoom

Johnny
February 17th, 2011, 02:14 AM
"Lady Antebellum" to a Southerner conjures images of Scarlett O'Hara, not someone whipping a poor soul kidnapped from his homeland.

Aardvark
February 17th, 2011, 03:09 AM
"Lady Antebellum" to a Southerner conjures images of Scarlett O'Hara, not someone whipping a poor soul kidnapped from his homeland.

Got that.


Scarlett lived on a plantation.


Plantation="whipping a poor soul kidnapped from his homeland."


As per my earlier post, I understand different regional perspective on what the word means and or how it is used but the problem is that for many folks not of the South there is a pejorative connotation associated with that word and it really isn't a secret.




Cheers,
Aardvark




.

HOOK
February 17th, 2011, 12:11 PM
Interesting side topic.

It´s a matter of context.

I am aryan, if were gonna talk race at all...:Roll eyes:

I am white-skinned.


But calling my band "Aryan WhiteSkins" ?


The ancient northern god Tor used a hammer to bring out the flashing and thunder, it was called "Mjölner".


Should I name my band "Mjölner" to honour my countrys glorious past, and ignore the fact that most people wearing that symbol these days are "nationalists" and "pure-breeders" :Roll eyes: (too much clorine in that gene pool!!)



The Lady Antebellum "case" is not as obvious....

Most countries in Europe had pogroms, race laws and quite frankly did a lot of evil things in the past....

The Swedish race institute existed till the sixties...

Sweden let German troups go by train through Sweden to fight Finish troups in the north of Finland.



Wish band names are ok?

Herman Göring

Herman Lundborg

Division Engelbrecht

Midsummer Crisis

Crystal Night Band

Jugent Bros

Double Eagle Band

Barbarossa

911

La belle époque

Negro Sabba

Terezin

Bikierni Forest Hunters

Golem Killers

Ice axe of Trotskij

Holodomor.

Bahattin Sakir´s Glory


?


HOOK

Holm
February 17th, 2011, 12:41 PM
Sweden let German troups go by train through Sweden to fight Finish troups in the north of Finland.

Hmm. Didn't the Germans fight WITH the Finnish there and wasn't the Soviet Union the aggressor in that particular case? You are right, things are not often that clear cut.

HOOK
February 17th, 2011, 01:02 PM
Hmm. Didn't the Germans fight WITH the Finnish there and wasn't the Soviet Union the aggressor in that particular case? You are right, things are not often that clear cut.


Mea Culpa

Right you are...






HOOK

Bob Olhsson
February 17th, 2011, 05:18 PM
...Sweden let German troups go by train through Sweden to fight Finish troups in the north of Finland...True but they also sold the Nazis tricked out steel that shattered in cold weather which probably saved the Russians.

Scooter
February 17th, 2011, 05:25 PM
Joy Division

MKZ
February 17th, 2011, 05:36 PM
Mea Culpa

Right you are...






HOOK

Or you mighta been talking about the Lapland War of '44 where Finland and Germany turned against each other.

HOOK
February 17th, 2011, 05:44 PM
Or you mighta been talking about the Lapland War of '44 where Finland and Germany turned against each other.

No, this was 1941.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/163rd_Infantry_Division_(Germany)






HOOK

Ein Mangfaldig Kar
February 17th, 2011, 07:36 PM
And the the trains went up with ammo and guns to Norway and down to Germany with norwegian Jews and dissidents.

Another band name:

"TurboNegro"

Johnny
February 17th, 2011, 09:26 PM
NWA.

weedywet
February 17th, 2011, 09:49 PM
And FWIW, I did ask the guys in the band what they felt and they ARE offended and think it's both tasteless and inherently racist.

They're "southerners" too.. Just black ones.

Knastratt
February 17th, 2011, 10:01 PM
What do you call a Swede with a II WW medal of honor?

A thief.

:headpalm::Roll eyes:

ManRoom Studio
February 18th, 2011, 12:05 AM
And FWIW, I did ask the guys in the band what they felt and they ARE offended and think it's both tasteless and inherently racist.

They're "southerners" too.. Just black ones.

Actually, the phrase, Lady Antebellum, apart from being an oxymoron, should also be offensive to women, who were treated as second-class citizens and worse. It was both gender and slavery issues that were among the most hotly debated reform issues that preceded the civil war (another oxymoron: civil war) - with slavery being the most volatile discussion - just not considered the most important issue of the time. That's why history refers to "a sisterhood of antebellum reform movements."

As for the Lady Antebellum band members, I assume that the implications of the name doesn't even occur to them. They probably just liked the sound of it - or perhaps felt it reminded them of a kinder, gentler time in the south when women were treated as chattel and slaves were treated as . . . well, slaves.

The ManRoom

Johnny
February 18th, 2011, 04:20 PM
And then there's Lady Antediluvian. Totally insensitive to Nephilim!

HOOK
February 18th, 2011, 06:45 PM
And then there's Lady Antediluvian. Totally insensitive to Nephilim!

Just like the Swedish band "the Ark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSzoOV2bqS4)" :Wink:


"the sons of God joined with the daughters of humankind, who bore them children - they were the ancient warriors, the men of renown."

Besides, they like to be referred to as "Size Challenged", just so you know...


HOOK

Aardvark
February 20th, 2011, 05:46 AM
And then there's Lady Antediluvian. Totally insensitive to Nephilim!

How about Lady Anti-Cerebellum?


Maybe they played the party after this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/19/AR2011021903085.html) shindig?:Wink:




Cheers,
Aardvark



.

HOOK
February 20th, 2011, 10:52 AM
this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/19/AR2011021903085.html) shindig?:Wink:


"In many ways the Union Army acted more like the German army of the 1940s with its scorched earth policy," said McMichael, a high school history teacher from Shreveport, La.



Hmmm interesting how he omit the facts that almost all armies have used that strategy, including the Confederate army. Maybe most famous and successfully by the Russian armies both against Napoleon and the Germans (Twice).

More interesting is that the strategy has been banned under Article 54 of the 1977 Geneva Conventions, but several countries have not ratified it!! Among those who have not is Iran, Pakistan, Turkey, Iraq And United States!!??:icon_eek::Confused:


I wonder if the original topic of this thread is a variation of this strategy engineered by the TeleCom corps!??



HOOK

Smileyblue
February 21st, 2011, 04:39 AM
I can't wait for the grammys to start having catagories like "Best costume design in a music video". I mean isn't that the idea? To recognise everything about the performance except the music?...... I am sure that Lady Gaga and the newest marketing sensation Niki Menage are going to be dueling it out......I mean really, arriving in an egg? Am I the only one that thought, didn't I see Spinal Tap do that?. So unoriginal it is scary.

iCombs
February 21st, 2011, 04:43 AM
...I mean really, arriving in an egg? Am I the only one that thought, didn't I see Spinal Tap do that?.

You saw them TRY it once...as I recall...they had some issues with that particular strategy...

Smileyblue
February 21st, 2011, 04:57 AM
Yeah it kind of backfired on her too when she was caught lying about it on Good Morning America...

72 hours Bull Shit..... the oxygen only lasted for 1 hour...