AU-only tape emulation plug released

[chrisj]

For anyone following the carnage (not Crunch's carnage with the valentine's day decorations), the tape emulation plug I developed to rival DaD TaPE (AU only, not a replacement on RTAS, MAS or VST platforms!) is out.

Iron Oxide's the name.

Sounds stunning, looks like nothing, very low CPU, speeds continuously variable from 1.5 ips to 150 ips. Think of it as a super bandpass, you don't have to stick to 'real' tape speeds.
Here's a clip of it sweeping from 1.5 to 150 ips and back again, continuously.
http://www.airwindows.com/m/IronOxideSweep.mp3

$59.99.

http://store.kagi.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?storeID=6FEGJ_LIVE&&

Also, the TapeFat and TapeDelay plugins got significantly upgraded with lessons I learned from doing Iron Oxide- if you asked Charles Dye what he thought of the TapeDelay, he might say "that sounds cool- nice saturated delays". You'd have to ask him, after first showing him this:

http://www.airwindows.com/m/TapeDelayJam.mp3

Next- a flanger! (http://www.airwindows.com/m/FlangerDrums.mp3) This is also going to produce an equally slick chorus, and possibly even an old-skool artifact-y pitch shifter. The nice thing about old skool pitch shifters is they don't eat as much CPU as a modern one, and they have their own glitchy organic tone. Mine (if it works!) will sound like it was a tape pitch shifter (which would be very unusual)

[FredSanford]

Wow. Thats a lot plugs you got there:icon_eek: How about a bundle price?

[Tim Armstrong]

Chris, I'm an idiot. Is that a Alsihad-only kinda thing?

Cheers, Tim

[Brendo]

Logic and other Mac AU hosts only.

[Comte de St Germain]

Model your flanger and phasing after the MXR auto-flanger/phaser and you're golden.

[chrisj]

What, like a flanger mu-tron?

That _is_ the bundle price dude ;) I don't price anything at $200 no matter how useful it sounds, I just make it up on volume. Get things bit by bit if you want. No special reward for getting everything at once because that would be a special punishment for anybody who HAS to get things bit by bit, know what I mean?

Today the tape stuff went live- Iron Oxide and TapeFat and TapeDelay.

Tonight's work: the flanger was already done. Killer simple Chorus (golden on Rhodes, not that I have my own Rhodes recordings right now- gotta whip out the Micropiano). Beginnings of ChorusEnsemble. Vibrato, which is 10% vibrato, 80% ring modulator, and 10% raw freaking GLITCH due to the speeds of the vibratos going up to very high frequencies- and the presence of an FM modulator AKA a second vibrato-of-the-vibrato. There can be some rather pretty chimey sounds, dead-on classic ring modulation sounds, and really grating but still strangely organic glitch (due to a good interpolation routine which is how the flanger gets its fluid sound)

I'll finish them up tomorrow and they may go live Wednesday, in case anyone is hot for assorted modulation AU plugs... gotta say the chorus and chorus ensemble are turning out nice. With the simple chorus, on a rhodes recording, it can sound totally fluid like there's no effect there at all, except when you turn it off the sound totally changes :)

Come on, switch to Logic ;) you know you want to! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[otek]

Chris,



It would be interesting to know how you went about finding the "models" for the sounds - what were your sources? Did you model things on actual measurements and curves from tape machines, "real" delays etc.? I am assuming you are not sitting on a stash of Otaris, Studers, Ampex's, MCI's, Scullys, Lyrecs, Echoplex's and Binsons?

[chrisj]

I go by what sounds good- frankly, I think there could be a great deal less 'we measured 27 old boat anchors for width of cast-iron thud' and a great deal more attention paid to the proper handling of digital audio. The only plug I have that names names is Channel, and that one's free- and I got the slew/highpass/etc figures from measuring impulses.

I wouldn't carry that over to other products because I think I can make things sound better than 'insert product name here', and because it seems to me unwise to make a big deal about trying to mimic existing products.

Anyhow, items like 'TapeFat' and 'TapeDelay' produce a certain softening effect, but not only can you dial in greater amounts of the effect than you'd find on a real machine, you can dial in the _reverse_ which no tape machine on this planet could ever do.

Iron Oxide behaves a lot like a tape machine, except it can be continuously varied between 1.5 ips and 150 ips, which no real machine could do. And you get what you'd expect, which is crazy highs and a serious loss of bass frequencies...

I've got a guy from off the Gearslutz board who needed a tape plug real quick, and I set him up on the condition that if he wasn't liking it enough to buy it this week, he should throw it away. Next thing I know, I hear: "I only got around to trying it ten minutes ago, and it's crazy good, I'm using it on an R&B vocal that's too digital-sounding and it's doing everything I could have wished, I'm absolutely buying this right away". This is a guy doing girl-band pop for top 40 (I don't know who exactly he's mixing- maybe I'll find out more later).

If you wonder whether these things can really work and sound good, why don't you try some? :)

[Charles Dye]

it seems to me unwise to make a big deal about trying to mimic existing products.

Totally.

I've been tellin any plug developer who'll listen that the next BIG thing in plugz will be doing something you can NOT do with analog gear.

Keep up the good work, Chris, making more + different kinda plugz.

Let ur imagination run wild.

[otek]

I wouldn't carry that over to other products because I think I can make things sound better than 'insert product name here', and because it seems to me unwise to make a big deal about trying to mimic existing products.

Oh, I do agree with that - though maybe you should then consider using other nomenclature on the controls than "ips", for example, since that term doesn't really mean anything anymore - the plugin no longer does "emulations" of anything in particular but adds saturation loosely based on that of tape machines in a generic sense.

If you wonder whether these things can really work and sound good, why don't you try some? :)

Oh, believe me, I will - I already downloaded the Channel plugin, though since by principle I never install new software in the middle of a production, it will be a little while before I can give it a test drive.

[jord]

I managed to put Channel to the test this past weekend. If anything, it was the perfect opportunity because I wound up scratching an entire mix due to the fact that we just acquired a new set of studios monitors and didn't like what we heard in the current mix.

This time, I could hear the subtle difference when I applied channel and I was happy with it (SSL Mode). For the one particular mix, I pushed the drive to approximately 30% and it worked rather nicely. Channel did help to glue it things together. Although I would have preferred to have things operate in more of a dual mono mode (both sides definitely felt glued to each other, but I won't hold it seriously against you :Coolio: ), I was able to workaround this a bit by unlinking my compressor on my Liquid Mix, putting them in a dual mono state.

Overall, I was happy with the results. I don't know if posting a mix would demonstrate my results as there is nothing really to compare it to.

jord

[chrisj]

Ola- that's wise, I quite agree with the potential chaos of introducing new stuff mid-production.

Jord- um, actually all my stuff IS dual-mono because of the way this form of AU plugin works. It's all N-to-N meaning that it could be quadruple-mono for all the difference it makes to the plugin. Exceptions- the Freeverb variations are stereo-to-stereo or mono-to-stereo. Everything else is dual mono, so it's lucky you want that :) if you asked me to link channels, that would get more complicated. I've always liked unlinked stuff (or mono stuff on channels) so that's what it is.

[jord]

Jord- um, actually all my stuff IS dual-mono because of the way this form of AU plugin works. It's all N-to-N meaning that it could be quadruple-mono for all the difference it makes to the plugin. Exceptions- the Freeverb variations are stereo-to-stereo or mono-to-stereo. Everything else is dual mono, so it's lucky you want that :) if you asked me to link channels, that would get more complicated. I've always liked unlinked stuff (or mono stuff on channels) so that's what it is.

Hmmm... weird. Things seemed a little smooth to me. It could be me, considering that I did do this on new monitors. If anything, I'm still training my ears on them and perhaps I'm listening a little too hard. Perhaps, it could also be my basis of perspective on this as well... ColorTone's Dual Mono setting sounds a little different to my ears, and I'm not intentionally trying to compare Channel to that. No doubt, though, I did like the results.

jord

[chrisj]

Channel's overdrive is REALLY smooth. It's like, how much more smooth could it be? And the answer is none- none more smooth ;)

Here's what it is- it really is dual mono, but the smoothness of it is fooling you- it's causing things to sort of even out because stereo depends partly on level differences between the channels and Channel is reducing those differences. You could back off the effect a bit until it opens up more- remember the drive control is a distortion, you'd be surprised how little of that is REALLY in a console channel. They're generally around 1/2 to 1% harmonic distortion, and that's really not much. You could almost say, if you have Channel on and you are trying to do a console sound but you can hear the fatness of the saturation, turn it down...

[jord]

That's probably where I overdid it... and I think I confirmed it with a friend of mine who I sent my mix to. He told me it was a little too smooth. I should probably push back the drive to something closer to 5% (as opposed to the 30-something percent I have it at now). That will probably widen the mix up a bit as well, bringing out the dual mono characteristics.

jord

[RobS]

Ok, I've read the thread and listened to the demoes. A couple of things, some coming from a software engineering standpoint, the other from an audio engineering. I'm not starting a flame war here, nor am I criticizing the work, just tossing in my 2cents.

First, listening to the demo and using my ears as you suggest, made it obvious that DUY Tape is better. I am talking even using a default setting on Tape. What the plugin sounded to me is a simple shift in low and high pass over the whole thing, without changing the dynamic of the sounds at all. Tape behaves much differently than what I heard in the demos.

That said, the whole issue about a simple GUI has been attempted and discussed at length in software engineering. Lord only knows how many time we engineers fight with usability experts on why there is so much on screen. I am not discussing the apps that go overboard, however, too simple is too complex.

For example, if you look at Logic's plugins, or any plugin which runs in logic as a matter of fact, you have the ability to switch any plugin window to the editor mode, which gives you sliders for every possible configuration the plugin is able to handle. How many people actually go do that? I have in the past when I used their EQ, where sometimes dragging a point on the wave was hard to do, so I'd go and use the slider and come back to visual to see what it looks like. Besides that I've never done it.

There is a reason for this... as much as our field involves our ears, it also involves our eyes. Case in point: Imagine yourself behind an SSL console, where all the buttons are labeled with what they do, however, there are no tick marks or indications of boost/cut, frequency direction (higher to lower), or even led or VU meters to tell you where you're at. How much time do you think an engineer will have to spend learning what each button does, and how to set it? you imagine the learning curve? Even if they only used their ears, they would spend quite a bit of time trying to figure out the behavior of each knob.

Second, with no VU or Led to tell you if there is a signal on the channel, how do you know the signal is:

1- Hot enough
2- Even there?

There are many many reasons why we need visual feedback to do our work. It has nothing to do with a pretty or ugly gui, it has everything to do with visual feedback that something is working. If we were all blind, God forbid, and had a way to move faders it might be like that, but we're a species that thrives on visual and audible input.

Second on the cost/quantity/companies charge too much issue for things that should cost less. Again coming from a software engineering background, there is a very very good reason for that software to cost more, not the least of which is:

1- Time in QA
2- Support of the product after release
3- Speed at which you can generate fixes and patches and maintain the software.

A 1 person operation may be fine and dandy for many things, however, if I were running a mission-critical operation in ANY company relying on said software to be operational, I would a) want to be able to pick up the phone and make a call, and b) I would want to be know that when I wake up tomorrow morning, the developer that wrote the software is still there and didn't decide that his vocation is to become a Monk, and just leave it all behind.

It would be a much more interesting proposition from the aspect of (b) if the software you were offering was open source, and the price paid for the license was a yearly support license.

As Mr. Dye points out, create, don't emulate. Personally I feel it's great to emulate to learn how to do things right. You then create to show that you can do different and better.

With great respect for your work,

Rob

[dikledoux]

I'm just bummed that it's AU only. Waaah. Poor me. :Cry:

dik

[chrisj]

First, listening to the demo and using my ears as you suggest, made it obvious that DUY Tape is better. I am talking even using a default setting on Tape. What the plugin sounded to me is a simple shift in low and high pass over the whole thing, without changing the dynamic of the sounds at all. Tape behaves much differently than what I heard in the demos.

Without getting into the other, more religious arguments ;) I'm going to politely say 'nope'.

I don't do this often, but Iron Oxide was written to produce similar upper-mid boosts to DUY Tape, and does in fact do that. You're also not hearing two separate saturation effects that produce really a great deal of distortion even without driving the plugin hard, and of course can be driven as hard as you like. There is a _lot_ going on in Tape, and since I was A/Bing them like mad and trying to clone Tape's sound with my own code, there is a lot going on in Iron Oxide as well, including every bit as much distortion and overdrive.

You're not hearing the flangey artifact on pure tones like sines- I didn't like it. :)

If it is not too much of a liberty, I'm going to flatly contradict you and say, NO it is not just a sliding bandpass. If it was, it would be called 'sliding bandpass'. Maybe that would be another good plug to do. It'd be even less CPU-hungry, that's for sure :)

[RobS]

If it is not too much of a liberty, I'm going to flatly contradict you and say, NO it is not just a sliding bandpass. If it was, it would be called 'sliding bandpass'. Maybe that would be another good plug to do. It'd be even less CPU-hungry, that's for sure :)

Not offended it's your opinion :-) However, I didn't say it WAS just sliding a band pass, I said this is what it sounded like when I played the demo, and not what DUY sounded like to me when I use it. I have no doubt you're doing a lot more than that, it's just not sounding the same, so to me the claim that same for cheaper didn't hold up... again... I am also NOT criticizing nor trivializing the kind of work you're doing, because I know how complex it can get.

The rest of my argument about interface still stands then? :)

On the BandPass slider... in fact that would be a real useful and yet super simple plugin to use... I hear that effect used all over the place on every dance record... introduce drum beat... hi pass filter to muddy it and kick in the bass line... once the bass line has established its groove... reset band path for drums... :) now a plugin like THAT should not be expensive, nor should it have a complicated UI... one knob for the frequency, and a slider for cut boost... :) THAT I can do by ear :) Of course it would need to hook into automation in Logic and other DAWs.

R

[chrisj]

And so does the rest of my counter-argument ;) all I know is, I've got it the way I want it and I am making sales even without demos or reviews or any significant userbase, so there must be somebody out there liking it. It's not my mom- she doesn't know how to use a DAW ;)

I am trying to make Iron Oxide _way_ less artifact-laden than Tape- if that sounds less like an effect and more like the music, that's intentional. The amount of overdrive you're getting out of Iron Oxide is not vast- it tops out at 9.53 db but that's at the 150 ips end of things. At 30 ips it is a mere 2.92 db boost, countered somewhat by the highpassing and the internals of the convolution kernel. That's in line with the amount of boosting Tape does, because I had them in series muting first one then the other. I'm ashamed to admit that now, but if you were doing the same you'd quickly hear more resemblance than difference.

That's the last time I do _that_, most likely. Nothing inherently wrong with it, but sheesh- you get arguments about how different your product is, after you've A/Bed yourself blue in the face, from people who haven't heard your real product for the obvious reason that they don't have it... better I should stick to stuff that's not just original code, but is intended to have an original sound, too...