First live experience - any advices?

[meLoCo_go]

So my friends suggest me to work as FOH engineer at their concerts. My experience in audio engineering is some mixing/recording and I don't now shit as far as live sound goes exept from setting levels at the rehearsal.
So what should I look for?
Which things are first on the list?
Any advice/suggestion would be appreciated!

[dnafe]

http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?t=551

a good starting point

[archtop]

vocals in the mix.

[ggunn]

vocals in the mix.

Yeah, get the vocals out there first and fill the rest in to support but not overwhelm. Don't be bashful about telling them to turn down if their stage volume swamps the PA.

[Jason Phair]

Do you have good ears? A strong back? A decent social life? A will to live?


Start saying goodbye to them all now.

[eagan]

Learn the phrase "blend and fill" and what it means.

In other words, you're no longer mixing stuff coming from recorded tracks. You're in a situation where before you even bring up the master faders out front, there's a certain amount of stuff coming off the stage and into the space, and all you can do is add to that. In other words, (and all depending on the stage volume and the venue), just because you have an input coming into a channel on the board doesn't mean it should be turned up.

There's a bit of wisdom for musicians that says sometimes the best contribution you can make to music happening at a given moment is to shut the fuck up and not make a sound. There's a similar principle in mixing live for an audience. If it's a relatively small venue and a band with hefty stage volume, use your head. If you have a ton of inputs coming to you, but the above situation is what you find yourself dealing with, there is no shame in only having a small portion of those even turned on out front. Don't go to mix in a club or small theater and overdo everything because of some feeling that you're getting paid to mix, so you should get everything plus the kitchen sink all going out front, when a good mix (and reasonable volume) might turn out to mean only having a half dozen channels up on a 32 input board or something.

Just because you've got delays and reverbs in the rack doesn't necessarily mean you should use those as much as possible, either. Again, the "I have it, so I have to use it or people will think I'm slacking!". Listen to the room. You might not even want to turn the things on.


JLE

[burnsy]

If you got to amazon , I found some live sound books really good for some of the basics in different princeples. Learn all about ringing out and room acoustics and also how to make a large beating stick for the unfortunate **** you get through. Other than that kiss goodbye to any other interest and g.f's lol

[meLoCo_go]

Thanks everybody!
Great advices!

[clicktrack]

If its your first time, then KISS.


If its your 100,000th time, then KISS.


Keep It Simple. Keep it simple. Keep it simple.

[Scodiddly]

Use minimal EQ. Studio folks tend to want to put a lot of EQ everything, while experienced live folks know that excessive EQ tends to bring out a lot of feedback and mic bleed problems.

[bunnerabb]

Zero the desk.

Bring all the gains down.

Solo the channels with each input check and bring up gains, slowly.

High pass the inputs on everything but the bass and kick.

All E.Q.s are flat.

As you get the sound check song, dial as much bumpy shit as you can out on the channels, try and leave the house be if you have a pretty stable curve. If the house sounds like shit and you have access, don't be afraid to remove shit with the mains E.Q. first.

If you can, put comps at least on the sub-masters and drop in what you want where you want it.

Dial in the kick, then the rest of the drums, get your vocal level up there on top and bring stuff in as necessary, leave out what you must.

If the amp is too loud, bitch.

Get an actual sound check, not them idly noodling.

Be prepared to play catch up a little at actual show time.

If you got a grip by song three, you're doing good.

.02¢

[eagan]

Good advice from guys who do this all the time..... to emphasize....



High pass the inputs on everything but the bass and kick.

What he said!

There is no way to overstate how much of a world of shit this can avoid. Nothing quite like suddenly having a diesel locomotive apparently rolling through the room, and it could be coming from anywhere.

The only teensy exception might be that if there's a keyboard player, they might occasionally be throwing in some Deep Bass sonic events that they don't want choked off (and the keyboards aren't going to be a source of the kind of surprise ugliness that the highpass is meant to avoid).


If the house sounds like shit and you have access, don't be afraid to remove shit with the mains E.Q. first.

Be aware that in settings where you're walking in to mix for somebody on someone else's permanent or semi-permanent install system in a venue, you may find yourself in a bit of colorful discussion with somebody who might be a real dickhead and very territorial on these matters, if you venture there.

[But to be fair, those kinds of situations usually have their root in past experiences where a guy who's spent a lot of time and effort on carefully dialing in their house system has had clueless goobers passing through, who went straight to the house EQ as soon as they wanted a little tonal adjustment, and proceeded to royally fuck things up. But on the other hand, in those kinds cases they've usually made the house EQ inaccessable one way or another, anyway. If you look for the EQ and there's a piece of plexiglass screwed down in front of it or something, chances are you may as well not even bother asking.]


JLE

[rockdart]

One point I'd add - the crowd. As the room fills up, it will change from when it's empty. It doesn't mean things have to dramatically change, just be aware of it. People make pretty damned good sound dampeners.

And walk. Listen at different places in the room. The left side, the right side, the center. Look for mirrors and such and get a feel for where sounds might be harshly reflected.

Last bit and was covered in the link... talk to and befriend the staff at the venue. Being nice to the people with the keys opens a lot of doors.

[ggunn]

Be aware that in settings where you're walking in to mix for somebody on someone else's permanent or semi-permanent install system in a venue, you may find yourself in a bit of colorful discussion with somebody who might be a real dickhead and very territorial on these matters, if you venture there [putzing with the house EQ].

[But to be fair, those kinds of situations usually have their root in past experiences where a guy who's spent a lot of time and effort on carefully dialing in their house system has had clueless goobers passing through, who went straight to the house EQ as soon as they wanted a little tonal adjustment, and proceeded to royally fuck things up..]


As a fledgling FOH guy (in the dim and distant past), I did that once and was immediately and emphatically relieved of my position. Regardless of how screwed up you think the house EQ is, it's extremely bad form to mess with it without at least getting an OK from the guy whose baby the house sytem is, and even then it's risky behavior.

[bunnerabb]

If the house sounds like shit and you have access

What I mean by that is if the house guy says "Yeah! cool!"

Otherwise, no.. don't go near it.

[Jason Phair]

If it's just good straight up big rock 'n roll your'e doing, don't compress the kick drum unless you absolutely have to.


I hate that shit.

[airborne]

If it's just good straight up big rock 'n roll your'e doing, don't compress the kick drum unless you absolutely have to.


I hate that shit.

What about a metalcore kind of thing? What's usually done with kick there? The kind of thing you hear at As I Lay Dying, 36 Crazyfists, and whatever else gigs. I didn't say I like it, before you flame me!

[pounce]

i dunno, just guessing here. on that type of music, don't they need a "snappier" kick. plenty of attack? i'd start with something like a beta52 and see what i had to do to it. and i'm guessing i'd have compressors on all sorts of things - gtr, vox, bass, snare. kick would be a question mark.

[jacvenza]

High pass the inputs on everything but the bass and kick.



In what frequency would you highpass? My desk gives me oppertunity to set the highpass between 80 - 400 Hz. But ´the default is 80.

[bunnerabb]

guitars at about 100, snare at about 80 and vocals about 120.

Punch them all in at 80 and then start turning knobs.

[Jason Phair]

What about a metalcore kind of thing? What's usually done with kick there? The kind of thing you hear at As I Lay Dying, 36 Crazyfists, and whatever else gigs. I didn't say I like it, before you flame me!

Gates are your friend.

They're incredible "tone-shapers" without the accompanying frequency changes you get with a compressor.

[airborne]

Gates are your friend.

They're incredible "tone-shapers" without the accompanying frequency changes you get with a compressor.

Yeah. Gates for the back of the wave, compressors for the front. I guess you can do things to the front with a gate and to the back with a compressor, but i haven't really tried..

[Jason Phair]

Actually, it was the front end I was referring to, as well as the sort of illusion you create regarding the front end when you fuck with the back of the wave.

[pounce]

sounds like everyone here would have fun with a transient designer. (and what a cool piece of gear that is)

[jacvenza]

Keep It Simple. Keep it simple. Keep it simple.


In my mind from now on......good advice...

THANKS clicktrack!!

:grin:

[airborne]

I haven't really tried toying with the front end of the wave using a gate. Must try soon..