PDA

View Full Version : Does the Jackass get a Darwin?


Aardvark
June 23rd, 2011, 02:57 AM
He (http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/20110622_Jackass_star_legally_drunk_at_time_of_cra sh.html) made his name shoving toy cars and such up his ass.

This allowed him to purchase a Porsche 911 GT3.

Not having enjoyed crashing his car drunk a few years earlier a couple of miles down the road, he gets liquored up (tweets some picture proof) and drives his very fast car off the road, through the air and into a tree or two upon which he and his passenger were thoroughly roasted in a ball of fire just in case the 140mph crash didn't get them first.

:otek::headpalm::headpalm:


Roger Ebert was right in his message and its timing.

Sorry Bam... and please tell me he did not donate any sperm.



Cheers,
IVoteDarwinVArk





.

vocalnick
June 23rd, 2011, 06:18 AM
At the very least I'm sad (in the abstract) for his friends and family - I'm a human being.

But at the same time, I can't help but feel that it's pretty fundamental common sense that doing stupid, dangerous, reckless things is...well... stupid, dangerous and reckless. The fact that people are going to miss him doesn't diminish that. If anything it's a reinforcement - he and his passenger didn't have to be dead now.

Barish
June 23rd, 2011, 09:26 AM
He (http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/20110622_Jackass_star_legally_drunk_at_time_of_cra sh.html) made his name shoving toy cars and such up his ass.

This allowed him to purchase a Porsche 911 GT3.

Not having enjoyed crashing his car drunk a few years earlier a couple of miles down the road, he gets liquored up (tweets some picture proof) and drives his very fast car off the road, through the air and into a tree or two upon which he and his passenger were thoroughly roasted in a ball of fire just in case the 140mph crash didn't get them first.

:otek::headpalm::headpalm:


Roger Ebert was right in his message and its timing.

Sorry Bam... and please tell me he did not donate any sperm.



Cheers,
IVoteDarwinVArk





.

He was obviously not acting in Jackass.

Me too says natural selection.

B.

Ein Mangfaldig Kar
June 23rd, 2011, 09:51 AM
He's got my vote.

Wide-O
June 23rd, 2011, 10:43 AM
Personally I blame Porsche for not being able to protect an innocent civilian driving at the reasonable speed of 140mph whilst being...

Nah, I'll vote Darwin too. :headpalm:

It does remind me of this gruesome crash: http://jalopnik.com/349540/flying-bmw-crashes-and-kills-occupants-darwin-wins

vocalnick
June 23rd, 2011, 10:45 AM
Apparently his blood alcohol level was more than twice the legal limit.

http://scoop.today.com/_news/2011/06/22/6918187-jackass-stars-blood-alcohol-level-twice-the-legal-limit

And the legal limit was a relatively lenient 0.08. If it had happened in my part of the world he would have been close to four times over.

I'm pretty confident now in saying fuck him and the horse he drove in on. I'm just relieved that he didn't kill any innocent bystanders, because he could very easily have done so.

Droolbucket
June 23rd, 2011, 11:25 AM
I will predict a huge lawsuit against his estate, brought by the family of the passenger.

radiationroom
June 23rd, 2011, 11:41 AM
What's the big deal? This is Pennsylvania Redneck driving taken to it's logical extreme!

dwoz
June 23rd, 2011, 01:21 PM
trees are such hateful, malicious creatures.

cozmicslop
June 23rd, 2011, 01:28 PM
What's the last thing a hillbilly says before his ass goes thru his brain?

Aardvark
June 23rd, 2011, 04:22 PM
Apparently his blood alcohol level was more than twice the legal limit... I'm just relieved that he didn't kill any innocent bystanders, because he could very easily have done so.

Repeat drunk driver and this time he killed a person as well as himself.

How fucking hard is it to call a cab or ask somebody at the bar to give you a lift?

This complete disregard for everyone and anyone else on the road is both arrogant and ignorant. If his little buddy Bam had half a brain he might take up the cause of keeping drunks like his dead friend off of the road instead of crying about the "Millions" of people mourning this recently departed vehicular murderer.

NOT an accident... this was an incident bound to happen and in no way a random and unpredictable event like an "accident".

His friend did not die an accidental death... they both died the way thousands of other drunks die in a situation that was preventable and premeditated.

That they crashed two miles from where he crashed drunk a few years ago boggles the mind.




Cheers,
Aardvark




.

radiationroom
June 23rd, 2011, 05:10 PM
What's the big deal? This is Pennsylvania Redneck driving taken to it's logical extreme!This complete disregard for everyone and anyone else on the road is both arrogant and ignorant. If his little buddy Bam had half a brain he might take up the cause of keeping drunks like his dead friend off of the road instead of crying about the "Millions" of people mourning this recently departed vehicular murderer.

Drunk driving is such a problem in my neck of the woods that my wife and I have a rule that we are off the road by midnight, especially on the weekends. Both my wife and I have had several close calls drunks on I-83 over the past few years. What's double disturbing is that some these close calls were on weekdays when the sun was up. So just because it's a "workday" does not make one auto-magic-ly safe from intoxicated idiots behind the wheel. And yes if a driver is acting intoxicated I call it in including plate numbers.

It would be funny if it wasn't tragic, but my local police department runs a speed trap in front of my house during the overnights and they have caught several repeat DUI offenders. But I guess that is what one sees living on a fourteen mile long road with a strip-joint on one end and a beer distributor at the other.

CloseToTheEdge
June 23rd, 2011, 05:22 PM
I bet they wish they had the cameras rolling for that one.

:headpalm:

Johnny
June 23rd, 2011, 05:23 PM
Sowing and reaping sucks. I too wish this man's mourners would take this as an opportunity to learn from his example.

ivmike
June 23rd, 2011, 05:36 PM
Perceived invincibility, combined with alcohol and a sports car that is too powerful for the driver leads to another Darwinian Death.

At least the toy-car sodomy was a consensual act.... or was it? I don't think that anyone asked the toy car...

Aardvark
June 23rd, 2011, 05:48 PM
It does remind me of this gruesome crash: http://jalopnik.com/349540/flying-bmw-crashes-and-kills-occupants-darwin-wins

That site has this (http://jalopnik.com/5814805/ryan-dunns-jackass-friends-expected-him-to-die-in-a-car-crash) little item of interest.

His friends are busy discussing the 9 cars he had totaled at that point (three of friends, six of his own) and how he was destined to die behind the wheel.

Again... this was not a traffic accident.

A tree falling across the road and flattening your car is an accident... this was an eventuality his closest friends were sure of.

Nice friends.:headpalm:




As an additional bit of useful info:

"Dunn (http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/articles/168137/20110622/ryan-dunn-death-westboro-church-jackass-star-eternal-torment-hell-deserve-die-car-crash.htm) cheated death once in April of 2005 when he crashed his car in West Whiteland Township but miraculously survived the accident. He was charged with DUI and was forced to complete a program designed for first-time, non-violent offenders.
Must Read
http://d.ibtimes.com/lg.php?bannerid=1993&campaignid=785&zoneid=1127&loc=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibtimes.com%2Fdev%2Fprev. htm%3Fwidth%3D0%26id%3D969&cb=88248cdc45&r_id=8a8743cdcaa6e90f7e8da73cd059a2c7&r_ts=lgs4r6


http://img.ibtimes.com/www/site/2011/local/images/1px.gif
However, it seems Dunn (http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/articles/168137/20110622/ryan-dunn-death-westboro-church-jackass-star-eternal-torment-hell-deserve-die-car-crash.htm) failed to learn his lesson.
He had 23 driving citations, including speeding and careless driving, driving with suspended license, driving an unregistered vehicle, parking-related transgressions, and criminal mischief-damage to property."






Cheers,
Aardvark



.

shlampe
June 23rd, 2011, 06:46 PM
It's pretty sad. My brain wants to say, yeah, you kind of expected this to happen. But I've got a lot of friends who were close to him and are really broken up about it, so it's a little tougher when it's close to home.

G. Hoffman
June 23rd, 2011, 07:05 PM
No Darwin. The rules of Darwin require more than just stupidity. Your death needs to be in some way unusual, and a rich idiot with a history of DUIs in his sports car is not in any way unusual or unexpected (particularly a sports car as over-powered and handling impaired as a 911 GT3, which has the engine in the wrong place and far too short of a wheel base for all that power). Secondly, he killed someone other than himself, and a vet at that, so he breaks a second rule of Darwin that you do not kill or injure any bystanders.

So, he does not get the (dubious) honor of a Darwin award. He was just a common place idiot.


Gabriel

dwoz
June 24th, 2011, 02:41 AM
I think if I was in a movie theater watching a guy shove a toy car up his butt, I'd be walking out.

I didn't know who this guy was before, though i'd heard of the jackass franchise.

From what little I know about him, I would have expected that he expired from white phosphorus burns in his colon.

Tyrus
June 24th, 2011, 05:13 AM
If you can afford a porsche, and afford to get your BAC to twice the limit at a bar, you can damn well afford a cab...god dammit.

johndou
June 24th, 2011, 05:25 AM
Porsche 911, aka the Grim Reaper's company car. The car itself is already notorious, even if you forget the fact that he was inebriated.

Wide-O
June 24th, 2011, 07:34 AM
No Porsche fans here eh? :lol:

The GT3 is an awesome car, IF you know how to handle a car, and if you know what you are doing. Which in most cases, um, is not the case, which makes it pretty deadly yes. Oh, and if you are on track - it's a bit silly for public roads.

But I bet this guy - I had never seen him either - could kill himself with a Prius TBH.

eagan
June 24th, 2011, 10:44 PM
This bugs me on multiple levels. Allow me to ramble for a minute.

I almost started to type "a 911 GT3 is not a toy", but that's not right. I mean, anything honest about this has to be realistic about this thing; anybody with a 911 GT3 almost certainly does indeed have it as a toy. It's just that it's a very dangerous toy, and must be treated very carefully and realistically. It is not a machine for clowns. Abuse it, fail to understand it, and it will bite you, hard, with no warning.

As what you might call a car guy, there's something that bugs me. There are certain cars, of the pricier sort, ranging from sort of middle to high end sports cars to up into the "supercar" category, that are not to be trifled with carelessly by the careless and clueless. Some cars in this sort of territory probably shouldn't be driven at all by anyone except a select group of people who understand, because we're talking about machines with characteristics that make it very possible to do something unwise and have it surprise you before you even have a glimmer of a hint that you were maybe about to do something that was going to get hairy in an instant.

But an unfortunate fact of reality in this sort of territory is that fairly high end sports cars are not necessarily owned and driven by qualified drivers. They're owned and driven by the people who have enough cash to buy the beasts, and that's the only criteria for entrance to that club.

There are many fuckwits with far more money than brains and driving ability in this exclusive little club. Being where we are here, I'm sure that there are a few people around here, especially working in the higher echelons of the music business around LA, who come across fairly frequent examples of people driving cars that are way the fuck over their head.

There is an organization called the Porsche Club of America. Among the activities of the PCA are what they call "Driver Education" events. Track weekends. High performance, non competition, untimed, track weekends. I'm vaguely familiar with this stuff because of a friend of mine.

My friend Jim lives a fairly simple life, in general. He works his ass off (usually 11-12 hour days) as a mechanic, shop foreman of a local company maintaining trucks and equipment; occasion fun with whatever lady friend is around his life; and from April through October (from snow end to snow start, really) he spends more weekends than not off at a Porsche club DE event. He's been doing this for years, he's been a certified PCA instructor for years, usually dividing his event time between his own track sessions (they divide people into groups based on experience/skill level) and working with students. He's good. He knows what he's doing.

He does these events, usually, in a humble old Golf GTI. He's kind of a peasant in this group. He's not poor, kind of "middle-middle class", certainly not wealthy. The majority of his playmates tend to be in the upper income levels (or sometimes, somewhat young but DADDY is in the upper income levels). Most of the cars at these events are, against all odds, Porsches (who knew?), of every kind, from funky old 944s up to the occasional retired and bought by rich guy 956 or 962, mostly a fucking herd of 911s and Boxters and such.

Funny thing here. Amid all these cars that are almost all WAY faster than his old GTI, my buddy Jim is often as fast or faster, in lap times, than some people in cars that are maybe 40-50 MPH or more faster in a straight line, and should theoretically be a hell of a lot faster in the corners. There are reasons for this.

Jim knows what he's doing. He's ridiculously familiar with the Golf. One evening hanging around we spent some time estimating and doing rough calculation, and came up with the broad rough estimate that he had probably logged over 10,000 laps around Mid Ohio (his favorite place) alone. The point here is that he's completely in familiar territory and comfortable in terms of running the Golf right on the limit. The whole concept of "the limit" is crucial. It's known to anybody who understands what they're doing in competition driving or any high performance driving. It's not a mystery, however tricky it might be to find (and keep the car right near or at it) depending on what you're driving, where, in what conditions. But it's crucial if you have any intentions of driving fast (with "fast" being relative to a lot of variables, and you have to wrap your head around what those are, lest you wrap the car around something).

You don't get in a car and romp the throttle and start throwing the fucker around. At least, not if you really ARE going to explore the upper range of what the car can do. I'm guessing a whole bunch of us have, at some point, known a certain kind of character. Gets in a car, thrashes it around, lots of revs and noise and tire smoke, thinks and tells people "man, I'd be a great racecar driver!". No, you wouldn't. And it's obvious to anybody who understands the stuff. And it's impossible to tell this sort of guy "no, actually, I do believe you would suck". Unless they went through a driving school to straighten their ass out and get rid of the delusions of grandeur Kid Racer fantasies, at least.

My buddy Jim encounters some of this. They show up at an event and he gets them as a student. Sometimes he succeeds in getting them mentally recalibrated to reality. Taking them for rides in the Volkswagen while narrating in the headset intercom he has for this helps, sometimes. But sometimes that doesn't work out as it should, for whatever reason. He gets a hotdog. Worst, it seems, from anecdotal evidence, when he gets a student who combines: being a 20-something; and having what at least in their mind is a bitchin' hot sports car.

They think they're a driving ace, and don't care what this OLD GUY says, especially an OLD GUY in a fucking VOLKWAGEN! Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, can we be done with this and I can get out there in my hot car and show everybody that I should be in F1?

He's had some experiences. Some dickhead who came in with a big ego and no clue and a car beyond them, and they wouldn't listen. Riding with students like this, one time he took a ride into a barrier at Watkins Glen in a Mitsubishi Eclipse. Apparently those big styrofoam blocks they park in front of the guardrails in some places around there make a remarkable imitation of a brief snowstorm when you blast into them. Another time, his student took the two of them for a wild tumble that left the student's Mitsubishi Evo perched precariously on top of a tire wall at Mid Ohio waiting for the corner workers to come and help them climb down. (I told him, "stop accepting students driving a Mitsubishi!".)

It doesn't usually get that ugly, fortunately. Sometimes his students just scare the shit out of themselves and park it and realize that their nifty new hot sports car is way the fuck over their head. They scare themselves and reality kicks in before something bad happens.

Here's the funny thing about a lot of people and fast cars. They might fuck around here and there out driving around and think they're the next great champion racer, they just need to get out on a track to show the world. They get out on an actual closed track and things get serious, and they discover that, in fact, they might get up to about 70% of the way to the car's limits, and they're scaring themselves stupid. They might also discover that they actually had not a clue about how that whole vehicle dynamics thang works. Which is why these things have instructors who take you for rides and ride with you in your car (brave), after classroom instruction laying out the Car Control 101 basics.

Here's a little secret top tip for anybody who might be interested in learning the fine art of Very Peppy Driving. You don't want to start with a fast car.

What you really want to do is learn the basics and learn about all the concepts and lingo you learn about in this stuff and then go out and put it into practice and get a feel for this stuff and work your way up to "the limit" in a slow car.

It's hard to get people to grok this. They don't want to believe it, but it's true; if you are actually getting everything out of the car, getting it to and keeping it at 100% at any given instant in time, it will be plenty exciting and challenging. If it's not, then you haven't actually found the limit yet.

But you want to do this and get your shit together in something relatively basic and good handling, but relatively slow. Like, well, a Golf.

By the way, my pal Jim knows very well how to do the stuff in much faster cars. He chooses the Golf because, well, it's basic and cheap, he happened to buy the thing because of circumstance, and, what I just said. He has just as much fun in that, especially given the thing of often being faster than people in their much faster real sports cars.

But anyway. A 911 GT3 would not be the car of choice to make your first trip to a Driver Education event. It definitely is not the car to try driving fast when you don't really know what the fuck you're doing. Especially not on public roads.

The 911 in all its variations is not just a seriously fast car. It's a unique beast with its own unique characteristics, not for novices and the generally clueless.

It does have a certain reputation. The Shelby Cobra is another car (including the kitcar replicas, which is the only thing you'll see out generally) with something of a similar reputation. Guys with experience in 911s will tell you, though, it's not the insane monster death trap out to kill you that the reputation tells people. It is, though, for the unaware who are surprised by it. Oh. I didn't know THAT would happen!

The guys familiar with the 911 family will tell you, yes, have no illusions about this, it is a tricky machine, but you just have to understand the things and act accordingly. That is true with ANY car.

It's a moving machine kept in hand by the four little contact patches of rubber meeting the road. It's not a fucking video game, and if you treat it like it is, yeah, it will bite your ass.

Mr. Jackass made a whole sequence of really fucking bad decisions. Beginning with buying this fucking car. Then getting hammered at the bar. Then deciding it would be really Big Fun to close the bar and head off at 130 MPH+.

It was a whole series of "you have no fucking business doing this" stacked up one on the next.

He took himself out and took a friend with him. It's lucky nobody else was there. I wonder if they were both whooping and howling and having a big laugh up until the big moment.

I got curious and took a look around the web. I found a set of photos of the scene. I think I can maybe make a reasonable guess about what happened there, with a fair probability of it being a good guess... I suspect Sir Wide of O might make a similar guess based on the shots, along with a few other people here. If it went down as I suspect it did, there was probably less than two seconds between the moment of "oops!" to lights out.


JLE

dwoz
June 25th, 2011, 02:12 AM
with you here, Eagan.

I like the hell out of my BMW 733i. It's a grandpa car, that is just as happy to take you from 30 to 60 in three seconds, as it is to take you from 70 to 100 in three seconds.

even though it's 29 years old.


...and rear wheel drive.


but one thing I will rebut. Those of us who learned to drive on ice roads, generally UNDERSTAND that whole, "edge" thing. As in, is 45 mph ok here, or do I want to be doing 43 instead?

eagan
June 25th, 2011, 02:54 AM
Well, I'm not sure what there is to rebut there. No argument. Some people do get the idea of the stuff involved because, the way they learned to drive, they actually did learn a feel for the car and the conditions and car control (even if they didn't learn any of the lingo and fine technical points, they've learned it by experience and intuition).

I mean..... there are reasons why Scandinavian type critters have been kicking ass in rallying forever, for example.

The point is, however you get there, you need to learn to swim before you decide to jump out of a boat in the middle of the English Channel.

Mr. Jackass could have gone to a Porsche club DE event or three and spent some weekends getting invaluable instruction and advice surrounded by people who know the type of car he had intimately, with its quirks, by forking over somewhere between $100-$300 entry fee (depending on the event), which is loose change for a guy who can afford one of these cars.

And a 7 series BMW CAN be a grandpa car if you use it that way, but you can drive the shit out of one of those, too. And they're a whole lot less...um.. not quite on such a knife edge.

But they're not as impressive to some people who would really be much better off with the BMW. People who would be well served by going to an instructional track weekend and learning something by finding that, for example, they and their top-end 911 can't keep up with the guy in the well driven 7 series who knows what they're doing (and yet looks like he's on a grocery run as he's doing it, because he's smooth and undramatic).


JLE

dwoz
June 25th, 2011, 02:57 AM
smooth and undramatic.


words to drive by.

Bivouac
June 25th, 2011, 04:06 AM
Drunk driving is stupid, but this doesn't qualify for a Darwin Award.

Dunn was simply replicating the same behavior that made him famous and loved throughout the world. What's the man supposed to do? His entire self-worth was derived from performing stupid and reckless acts, and he made unknowable amounts of money doing it.

Can you really blame the man for continuing irresponsible behavior when he was applauded his entire adult life for having done so? These guys have been flirting with death for 15 years, and we've been shoveling money into their pockets the whole time.

Drunk driving is stupid, but I'm also going to accept some of the blame for this one, and anyone who's enjoyed even a few minutes of their show should too.

cozmicslop
June 25th, 2011, 05:03 AM
When I sold cars (VW, Hyundai, Ford) part of their promo was to take the salesmen to a track and let us rip it up. There was always a training session with a professional driver before they'd let you loose out there. Needless to say a ot of guys who thought they were the shit driving at high speed proved to be completely clueless. If you're too pussy to push it on a high speed track with a professional guiding your every move...

Lessons learned. First, I never let a customer exceed the speed limit to "See what this baby can do." Second, even in regular driving situations such as rain, snow, ice, fog, etc., you can tell if you have a moron next to you that needs to be relieved of the wheel.

We grew up near St. Louis International Speedway. Everybody and his grandfather used to build hot rods and go there and race (this was back in the 60's and 70's before they built the oval). Everybody thought they were gonna be the next Big Daddy Don Garlits. A lot of the older guys would race for titles. That was the culture back then.

When I was young and dumb and full of ... I was involved in a few serious accidents as a passenger with friends who did not know what the fuck they were doing. The older you get, the less tolerant you get of that type of bullshit.

Once a high school teammate flipped his souped up Nova SS into a ditch near the railroad tracks. at 16, when you don't end up with a broken neck you laugh about it.

Much older, at 35 my drummer, speeding, showing off his souped up Trans-Am, spun out did a 540 on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago in the rain doing 75 on a 45 leaving us facing oncoming traffic.

Nobody ever got in the car with him again.

I've had my share of speeding tickets. The last one was 20 years ago doing 85 in a 45 Work zone.

$200 fucking dollars!!

Do that shit today? It's an automatic one year suspension.

I'll never speed again unless I'm trying to make it to a trauma center with a Code Blue in the back seat. It's not worth it.

eagan
June 25th, 2011, 05:10 AM
Can you really blame the man for continuing irresponsible behavior when he was applauded his entire adult life for having done so?

Yeah.



These guys have been flirting with death for 15 years, and we've been shoveling money into their pockets the whole time.

Drunk driving is stupid, but I'm also going to accept some of the blame for this one, and anyone who's enjoyed even a few minutes of their show should too.

I think the people who deal with addiction issues would refer to this as "enablers".

But you know what? Nobody's been forcing anybody to do that shit. It's not like it's your fault.

And I've never been able to understand any of that bullshit. The TV show, then (puzzling me endlessly) continuing on into making movies of the same shit. When I saw a bit of the TV show I just sat there thinking "really?". When I would encounter some guys cackling about it and just going on about it like the biggest fun they'd ever come across I just figured this was useful information because I could now firmly file these guys in mind under "fuckwits".

Johnny summed it up neatly earlier.

He who lives by being a jackass will die by being a jackass.

No shit. There it is, boys and girls. This was the obvious natural course of things coming to its conclusion.

Take your showbiz money from all that idiocy, buy a great example of high performance automotive engineering and craftsmanship (at what, somewhere above $100K?), get shitfaced drunk, and launch it at 130 MPH through a guardrail into the woods. Closed casket funerals for two.

Of course.

So there it is for everybody who's sat around watching that shit and getting their big entertainment fun from it and howling "THESE GUYS ARE AWESOME, DOOOOD!" at each other.

That's the predictable ending.

That's where it goes.

There's no surprise here.


JLE

Bivouac
June 25th, 2011, 07:09 AM
These guys came into the spotlight when I was 15/16, so this stuff might mean something entirely different to me. When I was that age, we rode skateboards and did stupid shit because we lived out in the middle of nowhere and didn't have anything else to do.

These guys were the KINGS of that, and their stupid television show (and subsequent theatrical releases) really resonated with my generation. I'm not kidding when I say that one of my friends posted a 'RIP Ryan Dunn' and linked an article on Facebook right after it happened, and around 100 people responded in near horror. These guys were pop culture icons of our youth, and a lot of their appeal was their perceived invincibility.

Yeah, dudes were perpetually subject to "enabling" -- at first by their friends, then by a television contract, and eventually by millions and millions fans. Their entire living was made from succumbing to "enabling".

I'm not saying he's without blame (I'm as vigilant about drunk driving as anyone you'll meet); I just want to own up to my end as someone who bought their movie tickets and jumped skateboards into lakes after shotgunning cheap beer. Part of this is my fault.

Oh, and I totally just drank about ten beers tonight downtown...and then took a cab home. It really is the easiest thing to do in the world.

Wide-O
June 25th, 2011, 08:41 AM
I got curious and took a look around the web. I found a set of photos of the scene. I think I can maybe make a reasonable guess about what happened there, with a fair probability of it being a good guess... I suspect Sir Wide of O might make a similar guess based on the shots, along with a few other people here. If it went down as I suspect it did, there was probably less than two seconds between the moment of "oops!" to lights out.


Well, you made me curious too, so I had a look.

Oh dear.

First of all, I totally agree with your rant (even with the fact that a Golf GTi makes for a great track car).

But. I was expecting something like misjudging a corner on a twisty road, ending in a LOOS situation. That was clearly not the case.

This crash could have been done with any kind of car that gets up to 120 mph.

I'm not sure if someone shouted "hey, we need to get off here" or that he saw at the last moment he was not going to make it, panicked, stomped on the brakes, and found that this particular car had no ABS (and that steering with locked up wheels is pretty useless... :headpalm:). I don't know what GT3 version he had (Cup?) but it's either one without ABS or one where you can disable it.

Edit: I could be wrong and he might have skidded sideways into the scenery.

Still.

This was 100% driver error and 0% GT3 error.

He crashed in a straight line.

Now the question is: did he know how to drive a car? Oddly enough, it seems: yes. Some quick browsing on car forums revealed that he was a track day regular, and even participated in SCCA races. (which obviously does not make him an ace driver, but he probably knew a thing or two about high performance cars). Maybe he just never had a good crash to get some respect for speed. Oh wait, he did. Several times.

Some people never learn.

So, as much as all the above is relevant, I'm afraid that this is 50% alcohol and 50% stupidity. Or 100% stupidity, depending on your POV.

That makes it even more like the M5 crash I linked to.

Oh, and I totally just drank about ten beers tonight downtown...and then took a cab home. It really is the easiest thing to do in the world.

Don't you hate it when your car just won't stand still when you try to put your key into it and you are forced to shout "CABBBB"? :grin:

Oh well, no laughing matter I guess. I don't know the guy, never seen the show, and I know it's easy to take the high ground, but he did something very stupid and very irresponsible there. :Cry:

Edit: apparently (this is the internet), this is a quote from the guy:


Let me preface by saying, I’M A TERRIBLE DRIVER!!! Yet I can understand the concept of other people when it comes to commuting. I am what I like to refer to as a "race car driver," with that said; I’m an amateur driver in the Sports Car Club of America series (SCCA).

I consider myself a good /or very good track driver, yet on the road, I’m a d@#k! With that said I drive like a bat out of hell and while doing so, try and stay out of other people’s way and/or life. I may drive like a very large and extremely scary thing is chasing after me (or there is a very attractive case of beer on the horizon), but I don't affect other drivers while engaging in my very entertaining convenience. The human who, in his or her head, thinks that all lanes are created equal, can truly be run off the road in a fiery ball of flame.

Enough said.

johndou
June 25th, 2011, 03:31 PM
No Porsche fans here eh? :lol:
...

But I bet this guy - I had never seen him either - could kill himself with a Prius TBH.

:lol:

Well. Actually, i'm car agnostic. I look after it, and in return it gets me from point A to B.

A better word (actually phrase) than 'notorious' would be, 'notorious for killing irresponsible idiots'.

The enitre saga could perhaps be summarised with a phrase often used amongst the sensible in the climbing community - "Just because you can doesn't mean that you should."

eagan
June 25th, 2011, 08:22 PM
Ah. Alright, hang on. This is new. I had no idea about the guy being a track day regular and occasional club racer. That very definitely puts it in a completely whole new light. Part of this wasn't what I suspected at all. I'm not sure if it makes this better or even worse. Given this, now I know, it wasn't naive ignorance, some case of thinking that you've got this amazing super sports car, so all you have to do is jump in and go, and the car will just sort of do anything, by some super automotive magic like cartoon physics were in play.

It was the opposite. It might be a case where a tad bit of hubris was involved.

And even a somewhat informed driver can fuck up. But that's an important item itself. Knowing that and treating things accordingly (like, especially, if the situation is "it's night, and I've just left a bar after pounding down shots and beer").

I mean, I'm recalling a little incident years ago of mine when I was driving a Neon ACR (not at all a snarling, tricky beast), and had an unfortunate scene involving an expressway onramp with an odd configuration including a kink, a surprising cluster of crappy pavement with a scattered batch of bumps where half assed asphalt lumpy patches had filled potholes, and totally unexpected snap oversteer that suddenly found me about 30 degrees sideways. That didn't go horribly, horribly wrong, but by the time I gathered it up, I had run out of room and lightly dinged two corners of the car, and sat there feeling like a fucking idiot.

I do wonder how this went in terms of the passenger. Was it "hey, man, maybe you should ease up a little", or was the passenger howling "yeah, man, woohoo, go for it, show me what this fucker can do!"?

This is just academic, but here's what I'm thinking about how this might have gone. I'm just curious what W-O thinks.

For reference, I did the math and given the reports estimating the speed at somewhere around 130-140 MPH, this translates to roughly 200 feet/second. So all this involves no time for any kind of thinking about it. This is key context, especially if the driver was sauced.

The photos I saw didn't show much of the road leading to the scene. So all this might be a different ball game if they were coming out of a fast bend.

It showed the right hander branching off from the main road, like an exit or something, and you can see the tire marks.

So here's my guessing. I suspect that there was a quick spur of the moment decision to get off the main road and head up the right hander. The corner looks fast, especially since it goes uphill a little. Problem there, as far as I can see, it looks like that goes up a little distance and then crests, and I don't know what happens from there. Either way, it looks like a corner that could work at a pretty quick speed in that car if it had pretty sticky tires on it, but, my guesstimate, not 130 MPH quick.

I suspect that there was a snap decision to go that way, and he suddenly yanked it hard right into the corner, and the rear snapped out on him. I wonder if he might have yanked it hard right and had a millisecond's instinct thought about the speed and got on the brakes too. (If so, 911 concepts 101 trips the mental red "oops" warning light and the buzzer with the "FAIL!" warning.

The tail hopped out sideways and instant reaction put in opposite lock. What happened then might have gone different ways, and again, I'm guessing, and there was NO time for anything like a train of thought.

At this point he might have instantly recognized that he wasn't going to make the corner, and possibly reacted trying to abort and stick with the main road (like somebody on track would go "shit!" and abort the corner and make for the escape road).

He might have thought "abort!" and realized he wasn't going to get the car back in line with the main road, and just locked up and had a last moment's realization that they were going in.

He might have just had the car snap sideways, tried to catch it, just froze seeing the guardrail and trees ahead, and just had a last instant of a deer in the headlights moment standing on the brake pedal.

You can see the tires marks that give some clues. The car was in a yawed attitude looking like the tail was out starting to turn right, the marks are pretty solid and straight (suggesting he was all locked up), with the marks of front and rear tires converging until it looks like the car was lined up longitudinally with the line of travel (but, unfortunately pointed straight into the guardrail corner between the two bits of road).

It might have been like:

"TURN HERE!"

"shit, that's not gonna work" (instant non verbal instinctive thought)

...lock up solid and head straight in....

bang

Maybe all of one second between the instant he realized he'd fucked up to blasting through the rail.

At 200 feet per second, in the dark, with a blood alcohol level of "pickled", there was an instant's bad decision that, from that point, probably wasn't going to work out well no matter what.

When I had that Neon oops, where I fucked up was failing to read the pavement ahead of me, and it set the wheels hopping and skipping so first, I had a surprising burst of understeer immediately followed by the (turned) front wheels gripping again at the same time as the back wheels bounced and skipped and.... snap.... sideways in a blink. Reviewing it later, I thought that once that happened, I actually dealt with it about as well as possible. If the guardrail had been only one foot further back I would have gotten away with it with nothing worse than a very red face and a pounding heart rate. I mean, this all happened in a very short burst of time, but within that, albeit zipping, direct, non verbal train of thought, with the speed there being maybe 60-70 MPH, I did actually have time for thinking about it and reacting in a quick series of control inputs.

In this case here, no way. Whoa..oops..bang.

The only way out of that, probably, was thinking way before that with plenty of time, to not.... drink.... head off into the dark night.. maybe letting a passenger egg him on (no one will ever know).. getting the thing up to three-digit speeds to begin with.


JLE

ivmike
June 25th, 2011, 08:41 PM
Here's a link with some of the pictures; including the fate-tempting "last shot up on Twitter". There are no gory shots; just a lot of the wreck on a hoist and skid marks into the barrier.

Clicky Linky (http://celeb-chase.blogspot.com/2011/06/car-crash-scenes-ryan-dunn-dies-at-34.html)

Aardvark
June 25th, 2011, 08:42 PM
I am not putting much stock in his membership to any track association or participation in related events.

He was no different than some rich guy who buys a ton of gear, gets a fancy studio together, a puff piece in Mix about it and then claims to be an audio pro having never earned his keep anywhere near a desk.


Bullshit.


He was a lousy driver and a drunk driver. He has no business being on the road after 23 citations and prior drunk-driving crashes.

He was a selfish twat who killed his friend and could easily have killed many more people with his reckless disregard for the laws of man, the laws of physics and the laws of basic common sense.

Oh... and to all of his a-hole followers who are saying "he has gone on to a better place" I say fuck you and fuck him too. If there is a Hell he deserves a front-row seat like other drunken killers and I hope he spends eternity with a burned-out GT3 frame solidly stuck up his ass.





Cheers,
Aardvark




.

ivmike
June 25th, 2011, 09:00 PM
Perhaps the Darwin Award should go to his deceased companion; he got loaded with the Jackass, appeared in pictures with the Jackass getting sh*t-faced and then hopped into the car that this drunken Jackass was driving.

eagan
June 25th, 2011, 09:31 PM
I am not putting much stock in his membership to any track association or participation in related events.

He was no different than some rich guy who buys a ton of gear, gets a fancy studio together, a puff piece in Mix about it and then claims to be an audio pro having never earned his keep anywhere near a desk.


Bullshit.


He was a lousy driver and a drunk driver. He has no business being on the road after 23 citations and prior drunk-driving crashes.
.

I'm with you.

The only thing about finding out that he had, apparently, some serious driving instruction and experience is that it changes it to... he wasn't completely naive... he had no excuse to not know better.

But as I was trying to get at with the stories of my Golf driving friend and the Porsche club events, there are guys who are just like what you said about people buying audio gear. Buying a serious fast car doesn't make you a good fast driver. It might just make you way more dangerous.

Buddy Jim goes out with his humble Golf GTI and humbles self-impressed hotdogs with serious fast cars. As I told, a couple of times he almost got hurt when one of his shithead students thought they were something they were not and took him for an ugly ride with them. I hang out and talk with him often and it seems as if every track school weekend he does, he encounters characters with way more car than they should have, almost every event one of these assholes way over their head goes off and fucks up their pricey car, and being a PCA instructor, he finds himself dealing with this kind of asshole on a regular basis.

It just occurred to me that Jim might have even encountered Mr. Jackass at an event (since Beaver Run in PA and Watkins Glen in NY are regular stops for him).

Still the same thought in my mind.... that asshole did not belong in a car like that.


JLE

NathanRocks88
June 26th, 2011, 02:14 AM
I once took my 95 Jeep Cherokee to it's max. Driving over Snoqualmie Pass at 3 a.m. Empty highway, clear head.
I don't know how fast "H" is on a speedometer that only goes to 85. But that was fast enough, and I only did it once.
Those heavy steel bricks get a little squirrely around 90. But I wouldn't expect it to take a corner at speeds without rolling over.

I probably will never do that in the oldsmobile alero that replaced the old jeep. The Alero handles something awful at 55 in the constant rain that is Seattle. Makes me wish I still had the cherokee.

Wide-O
June 26th, 2011, 09:45 AM
Oh... and to all of his a-hole followers who are saying "he has gone on to a better place" I say fuck you and fuck him too. If there is a Hell he deserves a front-row seat like other drunken killers and I hope he spends eternity with a burned-out GT3 frame solidly stuck up his ass.


These people agree with you! :grin:

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/295355/DUNN.jpg

But I hear ya.

Eagan: can't find the link, but saw a Google Earth pic of the scene, and it was a straight line heading up to the exit. Apparently that road is used by a lot of boy racers.

Also: it seems I was wrong: The '07 GT3 has ABS that you can't turn off. Yeah, you can pull the fuse, but apparently that gets you in other kinds of trouble.

So he was going completely sideways. :headpalm:

Doesn't matter. Most people would learn from track experience, he didn't, and killed his friend.

I think johndou summed it up nicely.

jerryskid
June 26th, 2011, 11:53 AM
They think PA is one of the most evil states???....I hate to even think what their opinion of California is, then....:Confused:

dwoz
June 26th, 2011, 01:36 PM
I don't think there were any gory shots...just a crushed up german hibachi full of charcoal briquettes, tossed a few hundred feet into the trees.

nobby
June 26th, 2011, 05:37 PM
Probably looked something like this. Police didn't know how many people died at first because many of the body parts were scattered in a wide area in the woods.

High performance car + reckless teenagers =

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m63/jonnewyork/From_5-25-10/CarPrettyMuchDisintegrates.jpg

eagan
June 26th, 2011, 06:20 PM
Eagan: can't find the link, but saw a Google Earth pic of the scene, and it was a straight line heading up to the exit. Apparently that road is used by a lot of boy racers.

Also: it seems I was wrong: The '07 GT3 has ABS that you can't turn off. Yeah, you can pull the fuse, but apparently that gets you in other kinds of trouble.

So he was going completely sideways. :headpalm:



OK. That's informative stuff.

It does make it more probable that he was sailing along, made a bad decision to make for the fast right hander exit, and tried to abort.

Again: about 200 feet/second (although I still don't know how the estimate of "130-140 MPH" was derived). Things happen quick at that speed. Not even enough time to say (or think) "that won't work".

The information that this car had ABS is a major item. So he wasn't locked up solid in full stand-on-brake-pedal panic. But the tire marks are solid. It is interesting to note that the streaks are solid and they converge (yaw angle was changing as the car slid). I was thinking from looking at the scene what I described before. I wonder now if it might have been a bit different than that (car jumping sideways, opposite lock, starting to straighten out, but too late, pointed into the rail toward the woods and you're now right there, bang).

It might have snapped right around and what I was seeing of the tire marks leading to the guardrail was the car actually fully turned around and going into the rail backwards.

Not sure about that, though. If this guy had committed the sort of Trifecta of Doom (crank the wheel hard and suddenly, lift, and jump on the brakes), he would have turned it around right quick, but I would be expecting signs of the thing spinning like a top into the barrier, not straight and stable backwards. Maybe not. Shit, I don't know. But at least we know that it wasn't locked up in full big eyed panic standing on the brake.

dwoz: Actually you can see the same shot I saw earlier, that the Westboro goons used. The thing wasn't wadded up with, um, burnt critters inside. It was more like ripped into a whole scattered assortment of chunks.

Let's say that there were probably severe burns on the bodies, but from what I see fire was never really an issue in this except for the emergency people coming to the scene to deal with it having to douse stuff.

[edit: Like Nobby said, with grim similar example. If I had to guess, I would suspect that after cops and fire crews got there, once they determined there were no survivors to rescue, they probably closed off the scene and waited a few hours for daylight, and probably spent a large part of the day gathering up bits. Fifty years from now kids romping through the woods playing will probably be coming across random pieces of former Porsche stuff and going "hey, I wonder what this is?".]


JLE

Smileyblue
June 26th, 2011, 08:29 PM
Why did the Bartender not cut him off?
Why did'nt the Bartender have him surrender his keys?

Because he's a celebrity? No excuse.

Don't Bartenders have to do pass a course in the responsible of service of alcohol?

As much as Bartenders don't like the idea of taking on this responsibility, it is part of their job and some people need to be saved from themselves.

Why did the passenger get in the car with him, when he knew how drunk he was?

Seems to me that there is plenty of blame/liability to go around.

The saddest part is that it was all preventible.

G cubed
June 26th, 2011, 11:55 PM
.... Fifty years from now kids romping through the woods playing will probably be coming across random pieces of a former Matchbox which had been lodged in the guys ass, and going "hey, I wonder what this is?".]

JLE

fixed...

radiationroom
June 27th, 2011, 02:07 AM
I've had my share of speeding tickets. The last one was 20 years ago doing 85 in a 45 Work zone.

$200 fucking dollars!!

Do that shit today? It's an automatic one year suspension.

Plus the fine plus all the fees they add to the fines these daze. My brother-in-law got a "$35.00 parking ticket" a few months back that had an additional $150.00 + change in fees and court costs added to it. Guess with all the tax cutting to the bone going on local governments need to make it up somehow....

G. Hoffman
June 27th, 2011, 02:33 AM
These people agree with you! :grin:

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/295355/DUNN.jpg

But I hear ya.

Eagan: can't find the link, but saw a Google Earth pic of the scene, and it was a straight line heading up to the exit. Apparently that road is used by a lot of boy racers.

Also: it seems I was wrong: The '07 GT3 has ABS that you can't turn off. Yeah, you can pull the fuse, but apparently that gets you in other kinds of trouble.

So he was going completely sideways. :headpalm:

Doesn't matter. Most people would learn from track experience, he didn't, and killed his friend.

I think johndou summed it up nicely.



The idio...err...the dude is a paragon of virtue and it is a shocking tragedy that he died.


I can't possibly agree with Mr. Phelps and co. on ANYTHING, as they are quite easily the worst people on the planet. Well, at the very least the worst people in this country, and very nearly in the world.


Gabriel

radiationroom
June 27th, 2011, 02:38 AM
They think PA is one of the most evil states???

That's because they picketed one too many funerals here and found out that the police will no longer protect them from those of us who would love to beat them with a bag of nickels.

radiationroom
June 27th, 2011, 02:45 AM
Don't Bartenders have to do pass a course in the responsible of service of alcohol

"TIPS" certification is NOT required in PA or at least it wasn't when I got certified in 1993. It's an amazing class to take and will really open your eyes as to the potential dangers of out-of-control alcohol consumption. I think/wish it should/would be mandatory for anyone working in the hospitality/bar/nightclub biz to get TIPS certified. If the legislature is unwilling to do it, maybe the liability insurance underwriters would. :Confused:

PRobb
June 27th, 2011, 03:09 AM
Why did the Bartender not cut him off?
Why did'nt the Bartender have him surrender his keys?


Because it's not really his job.

G. Hoffman
June 27th, 2011, 07:35 PM
"TIPS" certification is NOT required in PA or at least it wasn't when I got certified in 1993. It's an amazing class to take and will really open your eyes as to the potential dangers of out-of-control alcohol consumption. I think/wish it should/would be mandatory for anyone working in the hospitality/bar/nightclub biz to get TIPS certified. If the legislature is unwilling to do it, maybe the liability insurance underwriters would. :Confused:


I got TIPS certified a few years back so I could work the Tour de Fat here in Minneapolis. Honestly, it is mostly just common sense stuff, but given the number of people who lack common sense....


Gabriel

Tim Halligan
June 28th, 2011, 09:48 AM
Because it's not really his job.

Actually...I thought it was his job.

Ok...maybe not the keys, but by law here in West Oz a bartender cannot serve alcohol to a visibly intoxicated customer.

Maybe the laws are different over your way.


Cheers,
Tim

MacGregor
June 28th, 2011, 08:47 PM
My condolences to all the people who ever had the privilege to sit in a GT3, it's a sad day to see such a nice piece of German engineering genius totaled by such a stupid moron.

I'm only partly sorry about the passenger who decided, for whatever reason, to have a ride with a clearly drunken driver who has a long record of not being able to drive anything at all.

Poor Porsche :Cry:

Mac
.

bobzilla77
June 29th, 2011, 12:19 AM
I'm not saying he's without blame (I'm as vigilant about drunk driving as anyone you'll meet); I just want to own up to my end as someone who bought their movie tickets and jumped skateboards into lakes after shotgunning cheap beer. Part of this is my fault.


No it isn't.

I'm right there with you in the fan camp; I rented Jackass 3-D the day it came out. That shit is funny to me.

But we didn't "cause" this any more than the people who bought Motley Crue records "caused" Vince Neil's car accidents... another rich guy who should have known better, right? If you wanna talk about asshole drunk driving celebs, I saw them play the Palladium a couple years ago and heard Nikki Sixx address the crowd as follows - "LA! Sunset Strip, man, we did it all here! We made our first record here! (cheers) We fucked a lot of groupies here! (cheers) We crashed our fucking CARS HERE! (big cheers)"

I was so shocked I spit out my overpriced drink onto some dude's leather pants. Yeah, you did crash cars, and someone fucking died. That's your "woo!" bait line? Seriously?

A buddy of mine who works for their label told me they had a greatest hits collection with the working title "Music To Crash Cars To" which was on its way to production, and only stopped when the Hanoi Rocks guys found out and intervened. And you could say it's all bad-ass boasting but he actually did have another DUI wreck not that long after that.

I didn't watch Jackass to see people being endangered in their real lives, I wanted to see some slapstick comedy. If Dunn had the reputation of a safe and courteous driver, it would have eroded my admiration for him not a whit. I wasn't buying into some reputation he had, I wasn't paying to watch him die.

And while the stupidity of drinking and driving should be obvious, I wonder how many of you have actally known someone who drove drunk and got killed, and how you would feel watching a bunch of strangers call that person a fuckwit who didn't deserve to live on the occasion of that person's death.

Aardvark
June 29th, 2011, 12:41 AM
I wonder how many of you have actally known someone who drove drunk and got killed...

My room-mate for starters. He was my brother's best friend and his brother and I are best friends since grade school.

how you would feel watching a bunch of strangers call that person a fuckwit who didn't deserve to live on the occasion of that person's death.

My room-mate killed himself only but had he taken a life or two, like the drunk who killed my good friends parents in a stolen car and survived, I could have lived with strangers calling him a fuck-wit because killing someone while driving drunk is a fuck-wit move and double so for repeat fuck-wit drunk-driving offenders like the fuck-wit we are talking about here.



Cheers,
Aardvark



P.S. Still have not heard one word of condemnation from this fuck-wits friends regarding the fact he killed someone beside his fuck-wit self.


.

cozmicslop
June 29th, 2011, 02:12 AM
And while the stupidity of drinking and driving should be obvious, I wonder how many of you have actally known someone who drove drunk and got killed, and how you would feel watching a bunch of strangers call that person a fuckwit who didn't deserve to live on the occasion of that person's death.

You can't be serious.

I would not give one shit.

I would be grateful he (she) is no longer around to kill my mother, sister, dog, neighbor, dry cleaner, the squirrel down the block, etc.

What the fuck are you saying here?

cozmicslop
June 29th, 2011, 02:34 AM
I have friends who have driven drunk and put themselves in a wheelchairs. My Dad almost killed my Mom driving drunk. I, myself, have been nearly killed in accidents riding with friends who wouldn't leave the bar until we had "just one more."

What the fuck?

It's one thing not to give a fuck about your own life. It's something else when you don't give a fuck about others. That's when you become a careless FUCKWIT. If you don't care about anyone else, who should give a fuck about you?

This dude didn't give a fuck about anyone else.

Who should give a fuck about him?

We had a saying in the old 'hood.

Tears in a bucket.

Fuck it.

PRobb
June 29th, 2011, 02:50 AM
Actually...I thought it was his job.

Ok...maybe not the keys, but by law here in West Oz a bartender cannot serve alcohol to a visibly intoxicated customer.

Maybe the laws are different over your way.


Cheers,
Tim

Sure.
But everybody who is too drunk to drive is visibly drunk.
And the drunk might not be the guy going up to the bar.
Or the bartender might be too busy to pay that close attention.
It's not the bartender's fault.

Waltz Mastering
June 29th, 2011, 04:13 PM
I think Keith Moon was the original jackass..I mean how does one drive over and kill their own chauffeur?

Wide-O
June 29th, 2011, 06:38 PM
Sorry, I dropped out. Many more things to say, but the pointlessness of the whole thing (not the discussion,the actual facts) wore me out.

Mac, this was his car. FWIW.

https://www.vividracing.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/porsche/img_3023.jpg?1560404019

eagan
June 29th, 2011, 08:19 PM
Sorry, I dropped out. Many more things to say, but the pointlessness of the whole thing (not the discussion,the actual facts) wore me out.


Yeah. Pretty much same here.

The only other thing I would feel like saying is a comment about Bobzilla's parting question, since I've had plenty to say.

It's a fair question, somebody could think that maybe some of the commentary around this event is harsh or even bordering on cruel in some people's minds.

In short: I don't really think so.

I already said pretty much most of what there is to say about all the details, but the essence is, it wasn't a case of the reality that we're all human, and any of us can fuck up and make a mistake that can end badly.

This wasn't that.

It was a whole extended sequence of things where "careless fuckwit" pops up all along the way. It wasn't just a tragic bad moment of major Oops that could not be reversed.


On another note, interesting that Vince Neil was mentioned, because that had entered my mind and stayed there a while after the news of this crash. There's a whole batch of things to say about that. But, fuck it.


JLE

bobzilla77
June 30th, 2011, 10:19 PM
You can't be serious.

I would not give one shit.

I would be grateful he (she) is no longer around to kill my mother, sister, dog, neighbor, dry cleaner, the squirrel down the block, etc.

What the fuck are you saying here?


I guess I am saying that it's possible to have some kind of compassion for human beings even if they didn't necessarily earn it, even if they made terrible decisions with disastrous consequences.

Drunk driving is absolutely to be condemned. But there was something about the vitriol expressed here that hit me the wrong way. I'm clearly out of the mainstream in this community on the issue. I didn't know Ryan Dunn, I just liked his TV show. I don't know why but it bothered me.

I only brought up Vince Neil as an example of somebody who not only made bad decisions with terrible consequences but tried to profit from them by virtue of raising his badass rep, something I find way more distasteful.

Aardvark
June 30th, 2011, 11:01 PM
I guess I am saying that it's possible to have some kind of compassion for human beings even if they didn't necessarily earn it, even if they made terrible decisions with disastrous consequences.

Very fair and decent of you.

Drunk driving is absolutely to be condemned. But there was something about the vitriol expressed here that hit me the wrong way. I'm clearly out of the mainstream in this community on the issue. I didn't know Ryan Dunn, I just liked his TV show. I don't know why but it bothered me.

I think you see where my vitriol comes from.:Confused:

As per the first quote... I have yet to see compassion for the dead passenger from the Jackass gang and their fans as if his life is a mere afterthought to the tragic loss of the comic genius Dunn.<sarcasm on>

I only brought up Vince Neil as an example of somebody who not only made bad decisions with terrible consequences but tried to profit from them by virtue of raising his badass rep, something I find way more distasteful.

Agree here... asshole move from a world-class a-hole. Can't imagine what they were thinking on that one.




Cheers,
Aardvark




.

Johnny
July 1st, 2011, 02:06 AM
I feel sorry for him because he acted like a fuckwit.

Fulcrum
July 1st, 2011, 04:58 PM
I feel sorry for him because he acted like a fuckwit.

... Why would a fuckwit... ACT like a fuckwit?

Wide-O
July 1st, 2011, 05:57 PM
I guess I am saying that it's possible to have some kind of compassion for human beings even if they didn't necessarily earn it

Well, isn't compassion something you do per definition for someone who doesn't deserve it?

I do not think anyone on this forum was happy about what happened.

I also read a lot of threads on other forums that IRL, he was apparently a good egg. I even believe that.

On this forum, we tried to frame this thing in reason, and we failed. Mostly because of... well, there wasn't much reason involved.

Of all the things that can go wrong in life, this was not something that couldn't be easily avoided. And as Aardy said: who gives a damn about his passenger, right?

Have a Google around: I doubt this forum is "mean" to the guy. Hey, at least no one said "He is well Dunn". :headpalm:

dwoz
July 1st, 2011, 06:51 PM
Some guys actually believe the "My Generation" line..."hope I die before I get old."

That line is sorely misinterpreted.

you want to live life to the absolute edge, but not cross over. Cross over and you're just another splat in a long and dreary line of splats.

You go splat when you lose the edge, not when you have the edge.

So getting old without going splat is definitely the real meaning.

nobby
July 6th, 2011, 10:44 PM
"Star of Jackass" means doing stupid and dangerous things was literally his claim to fame. What part of "jackass" don't you understand?

If I want to make my older brother angry, I'll mention a ride we took back in the day. The driver, an aquaintance of ours, seemed pretty sober at first. In retrospect, I think he may have washed a couple of seconols or something down with beer and it took a while to kick in.

High speeds, weaving, often on the wrong side of the road.

My brother's predictable, apoplectic response will be, "We should have gotten out of the car the first time when he stopped for a light, beaten the living shit out of him and taken the keys!!"

We would have been completely justified.

nobby
July 6th, 2011, 10:53 PM
I think stupidity as a competitive sport has made great strides.

Stupidity was not uncommon during the 20th century but today's professional fuckwits have taken it to a whole new level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6MZ-0UpBtI&feature=related

ivmike
July 7th, 2011, 03:47 PM
I think stupidity as a competitive sport has made great strides.

Stupidity was not uncommon during the 20th century but today's professional fuckwits have taken it to a whole new level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6MZ-0UpBtI&feature=related

Idiots like that deserve to be passing through the lower digestive tract of an alligator.