Tape emulation plugin

[Sounds Expensive]

Hi Charles,

I just wanted to say how much I've appreciated MiLaR and your recent article in EM. You are truly one of the few who know how to educate. I find your explanations really clear, well thought out, informative, and practical!

My question pertains to tape emulation, not tape saturation. Recently, I spent some time critically listening to some Led Zep., Rush, and Pink Floyd tracks . . . basically the stuff from early to late 70's. What I found was that there wasn't a lot of tape satuartion, rather just that big, warm, buttery bump from the lows to the mid-mids. Granted, ever so occasionally was there an instrument with a bit of tape saturation (or perhaps tube--I don't know for sure); nevertheless, most of the stuff didn't have any sort of saturation or crunch.

Is there a plugin(s) that faithfully emulates the sound of tape that's not saturating? Or, does the DUY and McDSP stuff do that?

Hope that makes sense?

Love what you're doing, Charles . . . you're one of a kind.

Sincerely,

[weedywet]

"FAITHFULLY emulates..."


as in sounds indistinguishable from analogue recording?

[otek]

Well, I'm not Charles, but I'll bite anyway.


Is there a plugin(s) that faithfully emulates the sound of tape that's not saturating?


This is a bit of a trick question, on several levels.

First, let's deal with that sentence up to the word "tape".

I have yet to hear a plugin that sounds exactly like tape. I'm not sure that's even possible, or at least delving quite far into chaos mathematics.

More to the point, if you truly want the sound of tape, record to tape.

There are, however, several simulations of the "tape sound" (whatever that is, because tape can sound in many different ways) available in plugin format, most recently we discussed the DUY Tape plugin in another thread, which I'm sure you've seen. Many of these plugins give a pleasing concoction of harmonics and compression similar to what you would expect from tape, and some offer unique sounds not possible with tape.

Now, the second part of this sentence, "...that's not saturating".

You seem to be equalling saturation with distortion. If we define distortion as "changes in the original waveform by the introduction of harmonics, clipping or other artifacts", then by definition everything is distorting - the trick is to find distortion that sounds pleasing to the ear. Saturation is a type of distortion, but with associated artifacts that are mostly pleasing to the ear.

Tape saturation doesn't happen above one specific, clearly defined signal level. It happens gradually as the level increases, and affects the sound unevenly at different frequencies. It occurs when the magnetic particles under the mylar (not MILaR!) surface of the tape are reaching their maximum coercivity, i.e. amount of magnetism they are able to absorb.

The "warmth" you are experiencing from analog recordings is varying degrees of saturation.

I would also like to add that the usage of tubes to saturate sounds is a fairly new invention, and didn't occur intentionally on the old recordings. The "classic" tube gear was built for best possible fidelity and sound reproduction. The saturation was, if you like, a side effect.


Cheers,

otek

[lyons]

I have nothing to add aside from the fact that every time I read a reply from Otek like this I feel like I should read a couple of books on quantum mechanics before I record anything again.

I always agree with you, but I can never put into words why.

Thanks :Coolio:

Edit: To try and contribute a little here (forgetting emulation all together) I don't have enough experience with tape to even know what differences tape speed and type would make.

From my limited experience, it seems like different speeds and types of tape would basically result in different EQ curves and compression. IE bouncing something to 1/4" 15ips tape would result in a more compressed and bass heavy version of the same thing you recorded on a 1/2" 30ips reel.

PS: Forgive my ignorance, because I've recorded to an actual tape machine about twice in my life. I'm looking forward to another Otek post.

[Brendo]

I wonder... would using several different "tape" plugins set very lightly give a more tapey sound than a single plugin set harder?

The same way that running junky amp sims into each other seems to improve the sounds: see Trazan's guitars on Team Bunny, CaPE II?

[jord]

I wonder... would using several different "tape" plugins set very lightly give a more tapey sound than a single plugin set harder?

The same way that running junky amp sims into each other seems to improve the sounds: see Trazan's guitars on Team Bunny, CaPE II?

Actually, I do know someone that's running two DUY Tape plug-ins in series and he says that the results are amazing. He says that it does give a more "tapey" sound.

It's tempting to give it a try while my demo of Tape is still active.

jord

[otek]

I wonder... would using several different "tape" plugins set very lightly give a more tapey sound than a single plugin set harder?

Well, I guess if the simulation is any good, it would give an approximation of the sound of bouncing a track on a tape machine to another track.

But seriously, I don't know that I would be any more inclined to do that, than I would excessive amounts of bouncing on an analog machine. Beyond a point, you will get serious degradation of the sound.

[Brendo]

Well, i've been running Massey Tapehead on my Guitars group, but then also putting it on certain guitar tracks to change the sound of them as well.

I don't change the settings, I leave them as default, so I get full recall.... and stacking two seems to sound different... better?... than just turning one instance up.

[Santiago]

Massey Tape Head is great, I like to use it when bouncing Vocal stems:Twisted:

[John Suitcase]

Does anyone know of any studies online that have been done of the characteristics of 'tape'? I'm curious how it affects things like slew rates, frequency spectrum, etc. I have found a few things about the saturation portion of the 'tape' effect, but as others have alluded to, that's only one dimension of the equation.

I'm not terribly interested in emulating tape per se, but in identifying those characteristics that we find musical and useful.


Also, I often hear the term 'compression' used in reference to tape, but I think it's more accurately described as 'saturation', since the effect is taking place at the waveform level, rather than at the envelope level, if that makes sense...

[Brendo]

Ok, well experts in the field state that tape is higher on the "more gooderer" index than digital. That's all you need to know.

:lol:

[otek]

Also, I often hear the term 'compression' used in reference to tape, but I think it's more accurately described as 'saturation', since the effect is taking place at the waveform level, rather than at the envelope level, if that makes sense...


I disagree.


Compression is a natural part of tape saturation, because it does indeed affect the waveform envelope by compressing overshot peaks and (with extreme levels) altering the transient material. It also affects the tonal balance, because the saturation affects various parts of the audio spectrum differently.


Cheers,

otek



PS. Brendo, if it sounds better with tape emulators in series, go for it. It's obvious we aren't dealing with any real-life "tape" scenario anyway, so it was kind of silly of me to bring that up.

[masseyplugins]

I think you're both right. I think tape mainly saturates but really saturation is just a narrowly-defined form of compression. You can think of saturation as compression but with an extremely fast attack and release. Both are reshaping the waveform, but with different time constants. Since "saturation" acts much more quickly than "compression", it tends to smear out the sound since its modulation effect extends much more into frequency spectrum vs the "envelope spectrum" -- much like John S. is referring to.

Steve

[6x2]

Is it "the" Steve Massey?

Kudos for the fantastic plug-ins, man! I use them all the time.

Keep up the good work!

:)

6x2

[Brendo]

PS. Brendo, if it sounds better with tape emulators in series, go for it. It's obvious we aren't dealing with any real-life "tape" scenario anyway, so it was kind of silly of me to bring that up.

Well yeah... two on default settings stacked sounds different than one turned up more....

Also... still trying the plugins before I decide to buy them, so I'm currently using TapeHead in such a way that if I put it on a track and it does nothing for me straight away, it comes straight back off... otherwise it stays, untouched. The other ones are a bit more of a PITA to recall, but then I'm not sure which ones I like yet or not!

[otek]

Is it "the" Steve Massey?

If it is, when are you releasing your plugins for AU?

And oh, welcome to the Womb! :D


otek

[Charles Dye]

Welcome, Steve!

Thanks for visiting. Your plugz r a HUGE hit round here.

Thanks!

[PSN Big Al]

Welcome Steven! Great to see you here! :Thumbsup:

[masseyplugins]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome.

And, about AU, currently I have someone helping me out with the porting work. I don't have a release date yet -- still a little ways off. More importantly, I need to better acquaint myself with the AU world. Last time I tried to use Logic it took me about 30 minutes just to figure out how to create a track :)

Steve

[Watershed]

Last time I tried to use Logic it took me about 30 minutes just to figure out how to create a track :)

haha, join the club!

Welcome Steve. Props on the plugins, I'm really liking them.

[otek]

Last time I tried to use Logic it took me about 30 minutes just to figure out how to create a track :)


Oh, no.


The man's been in here five minutes and what does he do? He creates a Logic bashing thread!!!! :icon_eek:

That's it. I'm starting my own forum. Gotta get away from you people.

Where is Jord and Slipperman? I am taking them with me.



:lol:

[seagate]

Did someone say Logic???

[lebouche]

We all know I AM the 'Oracle of knowledge' when it comes to logic.

Let me see......create a track. hhhmmnnnnnnn
Definitely ask Jord.:Thumbsup:

I'm up for some AU Massey plugins, got to afford DUY tape first.

Can we invite George Massenburg while we are at it... isn't he in to developing stuff?:grin:

[seagate]

...got to afford DUY tape first.

<sigh>

I wish they had a hobby license...

:Roll eyes:

[lebouche]

nah...it would just make me want it more.:grin: besides, I get paid to be this poor:lol:
I just sent and email to the Massenburg plugin website inviting him on the off chance.
Sorry this is quite random but Steve Massey got me thinking bout Howard Massey whom wrote behind the glass and so on.....

ramblerambleramblemumblemumblemumblefumblefumblefu mble

[jord]

Last time I tried to use Logic it took me about 30 minutes just to figure out how to create a track :)

Let me guess... reading the manual was out of the question? :Twisted:

What's this on the Arrange Window: a Track menu? Who'd a thunk it? :Roll eyes:

I guess there goes my chance of trying out some new AU plug-ins...

jord

[jord]

I'm up for some AU Massey plugins, got to afford DUY tape first.

I know that feeling!!! I felt the same way, until I played long and hard with Ozone to get something that comes close, IMHO. I think I may have saved myself a serious chunk of cash on not only Tape, but on the Everpak as well.

jord

[jord]

Oh, no.

The man's been in here five minutes and what does he do? He creates a Logic bashing thread!!!! :icon_eek:

That's it. I'm starting my own forum. Gotta get away from you people.

Where is Jord and Slipperman? I am taking them with me.

Heck, I had bigger issues this weekend than to fry pro-trolls. :Twisted:

Let's face it, finding ways how not to spend more money on plug-ins always takes precedent...

jord

[lincoln]

Hey!

Anyone know how to get the DUY Analog demo?? I've been waiting for over 1 week now since I requested an authorization on my ilok!!!! I would certainly like to try DUY Tape before spending all that money... even though you guys seem to swear by this plug... OR should I just buy it anyways - while it's on sale this month???? Will I regret it or wear it out!!

Thanks!

[Donovan Murphy]

Lets got off the top of bashing people not brave enough to buy Digidesign hardware *cough Logic users cough* and how much Top Ramen we eat for that URS channel strip. Hey I love the Massey Tape plug-in! I've been using it for about 4 months now and I'm finally getting around to buying the bundle.

I have this idea and just wanted to run it by everyone here for advice. Before I bought my first MBox I had one of those $400 Tascam tape recorders which recorded four tracks on a single cassette tape....

Would it be possible/worth it to buy one of these tape machines now for $150 and run four tracks of your drums before hitting Pro Tools? For a cassette it definitely had a nice sound.

[jord]

There's a fuzzy yellow line between bravery and foolishness. :Coolio:

jord
a *ahem* Logic User

[Skwaidu]

Yay, welcome Steve! Yours are great plug-ins with lots of cool uses... (Though I'd rename Tape-Head to Saturation-Head or sumthing. :P )

[chrisj]

It's a little scary naming tape plugs, because so many people want to call it 'tape' to avoid confusion. I had to call mine Iron Oxide because the last thing I wanted to do was steal the name Tape, even though all my other stuff is named totally generic. Iron Oxide is kind of a dumb name but I don't think it's stepping on anybody's toes :Roll eyes:

I would never do that :Twisted:

Actually, I'm learning not to do that :Wink: