Controllers

[Senap]

How many of you in-the-box guys use a controller when mixing?

Is it because you miss the old shool hands on aproach or cause it really makes it easier?

I'm thinking of getting a Frontier Alphatrack to make automation and transport easier. It's only 199 bucks and it has blinky lights and everything. And a motorized fader.

http://www.frontierdesign.com/Products/AlphaTrack

Convince me. Either way.

[Brendo]

i've got the behringer BCF. works fine.

i don't use it all the time - but sometimes, it comes in real handy. oddly enough, while comping vocals, when the takes are on 3 or 4 separate tracks, it's a real timesaver. one fader wouldnt work for me in that situation.

[PRobb]

Control 24 here. I think real faders are essential.

[Skwaidu]

24 faders Icon D-Command. I like it, it does enhance creativity and speed up my workflow... Also it helps a lot in the ergonomics department.

[gilligan204]

I got the factory 002, thats the main reason i got it, (secondary for pro tools) but because, I was so sick of staring at a monitor all the time, with templates, etc, and faders, its so much nicer, (of course if i had the ability to track 2 inch with an ssl, i'd do that but.... thats not the way it is anymore)

[eagan]

Well, I never have recorded to 2" tape with an SSL, but having gotten started in the days of 1/2" 8 track machines, not doing everything through a real board always seems an awkward kludge.

The weird part is that in this era, it seems pretty common that even when a "real board" is involved, or a controller, there are always way more tracks than faders at hand, so a lot of stuff ends up revolving around groups, so people still end up doing a lot in the box. You also find a lot of guys like me where you look at the setup and there is some sort of mixer, but it's a minimal little thing for the simplest of signal routing and level setting (in my case, right now, this humble cheap little Yamaha 12/4 board).

But one thing I just don't get. I look at some controller widget thing with A fader, yes, ONE fader, and think "uh.... I'm sorry, what's the point?". In that case, you're still basically doing everything one thing at a time ITB, it's just that now you have a little "real fader" to push back and forth, one channel at a time, instead of a mouse (or trackball, for some people).


JLE

[Skwaidu]

Well, I never have recorded to 2" tape with an SSL, but having gotten started in the days of 1/2" 8 track machines, not doing everything through a real board always seems an awkward kludge.

The weird part is that in this era, it seems pretty common that even when a "real board" is involved, or a controller, there are always way more tracks than faders at hand, so a lot of stuff ends up revolving around groups, so people still end up doing a lot in the box. You also find a lot of guys like me where you look at the setup and there is some sort of mixer, but it's a minimal little thing for the simplest of signal routing and level setting (in my case, right now, this humble cheap little Yamaha 12/4 board).

But one thing I just don't get. I look at some controller widget thing with A fader, yes, ONE fader, and think "uh.... I'm sorry, what's the point?". In that case, you're still basically doing everything one thing at a time ITB, it's just that now you have a little "real fader" to push back and forth, one channel at a time, instead of a mouse (or trackball, for some people).


JLE

Actually, I see a lot of merit in the one fader approach as long as it is cheap... Doing vocal rides would be the most important thing I would miss if I didn't have any controller whatsoever, so 1 fader is much better than none IMHO...

[Chris Lambrechts]

D control here. Pro Control before that. I'm what one might call a hybrid digi slut. I absolutely LOVE my big mouse.

Chris

[Pimp-X]

Tascam US2400 here. Love it.

[gilligan204]

What I meant to say was sometimes it would be nice to not even have to deal with the box. At my home i'd like to build a little studio around a Mackie 32.8 a Alesis 24 (hard disk recorder thingy) and outboard stuff. It just would be nice to let the "band" do it instead of me fixing it, lol .

of course on the side, i'd have an mbox for all the fixes, because it just wouldn't happen they way i want it to.

~~~~~

Having an 002 or a control 24, just makes life easier in the ITB realm, and the one fader widget things, I suppose would be handy when mixing. I do all my recording and headphone cues through the 002 with templates and etc, so I always have a hand on a fader or two, and with a mouse, its just a pain.

[Flipper]

I run a Radikal and it's very cool indeed.
Asisde from the fact that i don't do very big projects and i can't mix for shit the "jog wheel" is worth it's weight and gold.

When i have been sitting in front of it for a few days i can get in the rythm of automating the plugins with it and that sort of shit.

So mainly i guess it's an ergonomic thing for me.

Oh yeah and an eye candy thing...:D

[lebouche]

I want one I want on I want one!!! Which one I don't know but I want one!!!!!!!
The one Charles uses in Milar looks pretty tasty....but I'd settle for a cheapo little un.
Oh yes....and a 30 inch monitor so I can get a fuckin clue where I am! Still its not supposed to be too easy is it.

[eagan]

OK, so I can sort of see a little of the appeal in Skwaidu's fondness for the One Fader Widget sometimes..... kind of, maybe.

I don't know.

I just don't see it being all that much better. To me, the whole problem is trying to use move and coordinate a mouse/cursor, with the mix controls crammed on to a small screen, often having to also scroll back and forth as track count spreads stuff beyond what can fit on screen at a time, rather than having stuff laid out and you simply reach with your hand to grab what you need right now, and move it.

That's what bugs me, the sheer clumsiness of getting a little cursor on the right thing, moving back and forth, not so much a lack of nice feel from a real fader.

Here's a quick read with some thoughts related to this, that I stumbled upon a while back. It's a manufacturer promo blurb page, in essence, but you get a glimpse of some thoughts on this kind of stuff.

http://www.euphonix.com/news/news2006/071706_mike_oldfield.htm


What I find to be pretty ironic is that it seems like it was just a year or two ago that I read something online about Oldfield where he was completely clearing out his old setup in his home studio including whatever Big Jumbo Board he had (don't know what that was), and since he had been recording with computers for some time, and using a lot of software synths and whatnot, he was going to start new with a completely revamped setup and work completely ITB.

Apparently, he's tried it, and changed his mind again.


JLE

[Kenny Gioia]

Had a 24 channel Pro Control. Sold it.

Now I use the C24 here.

Can't think of a reason to upgrade either.

The D-Command and the Icon look nice but I really only use the faders on the controller. Everthing else seems easier on a pen with a big monitor.

Anyway, I'm not sure that one fader would be better than none for me.

[Skwaidu]

Had a 24 channel Pro Control. Sold it.

Now I use the C24 here.

Can't think of a reason to upgrade either.

The D-Command and the Icon look nice but I really only use the faders on the controller. Everthing else seems easier on a pen with a big monitor.

Anyway, I'm not sure that one fader would be better than none for me.

I actually used to use very little of the C24's and Pro Control's in the rooms I used most before building my own... I was mousing most of the time even if I would have viable CS options to do things... My 1st D-Command mix changed that, it just felt more logical. (And it soon got me interested in purchasing one) With it I end up using a lot more than just the faders, the EQ section being one of the coolest things in it IMHO.

[DaveC]

Used to use a mackie HUI ages ago - it was kind of good but kinda a PITA too. I can remember the syncing and comms problems more than the help it gave.

Now I use a C24 a lot, that's great. Used a Pro-Control too, not as good. I also have a 002, but when I am using that, I tend to use the mouse and keyboard more than the control surface.

Reasons for: people expect to see a console in a studio so they know what you are doing, a control surface gives that centre piece.

Also you can do swish things like run your fingers across 12 channels of mute buttons to mute a section quickly.

And you can grab a heap of faders and ride them all at once.

For me, 8 faders is not enough, but 24 is plenty. I also like proper 'play' and 'stop' buttons.

[PRobb]

The other key point of faders is can use them without looking at the damn computer screen. When you listen closely you close your eyes, right? When you can mix by touch, you listen better.

[Mikey MTC]

I've gone from mouse only (well, a HUI that I almost never used) straight to a 32 fader D-Control. Insane difference with benefits coming within days. The thought of going back to a mouse now is laughable ... ha ha ... ha ...

Those 50-100 track mixes just got too hard with a mouse when a client was around and you needed to execute ideas fast. To be pragmatic, if time was never an issue I could possibly arrive in the same sonic ballpark using only the mouse again, but it wouldn't be as fun and it wouldn't have the same depth of sonic experimentation. Having all this stuff at your fingertips lets you think about doing wacky stuff where needed.

[Skwaidu]

Those 50-100 track mixes just got too hard with a mouse when a client was around and you needed to execute ideas fast. To be pragmatic, if time was never an issue I could possibly arrive in the same sonic ballpark using only the mouse again, but it wouldn't be as fun and it wouldn't have the same depth of sonic experimentation. Having all this stuff at your fingertips lets you think about doing wacky stuff where needed.

Well put! Even with the minor crippling I have compared to you the same can pretty much be said of a 24- fader D-Command.

[Senap]

That settles it. I ordered an Alphatrack today.

Even though it's only one fader, coming from a mouse only world, I think I will benefit from this.

And just the thought of sitting in the chair, roll it back a little and start setting levels, automation and so forth without looking at the effin' screen is going to be nice.

And when you're recording acoustic guitar by yourself. Just put it on a chair beside you on start recording. No more get up, erase, sit down, correct placement, fuck up, get up, erase, sit down etc....

[santeri]

Tascam US2400 here as well. Feels so much more natural than mousing around, even when tracking.

[imagineaudio]

mackie control.... worth every penny.

[Zoesch]

Tascam US2400 here. Love it.

Funny... I never ever asked you how you were doing with the Tascam, glad to hear it worked for you.

[PRobb]

Who has a controller that works with both PT and Logic?

[Chris Lambrechts]

Who has a controller that works with both PT and Logic?

Any midi controller will work to some extend with both Logic and PT and the vast majority of other daw softs fwiw. But I guess the question is also which one works 'well' with both in terms of possibilities etc ... In which case I would go for one of the HUI compatible controllers like the makie.

Chris

[PRobb]

But I guess the question is also which one works 'well' with both in terms of possibilities etc .Chris
Yeah, that's what I meant.:Roll eyes: :Thumbsup:

[shady656]

Control 24...need the faders and can't afford a Neve board...

[Watershed]

002R with a Command|8 here.
If there was a Control24-lite without the preamps and some other bells and whistles (IOW and 24ch Command|8) I'd be there in a heartbeat.

I'd even settle for a Command|16......... 8 is handy, but really just isn't enough.

[Azraphael]

FWIW< I just bought the Tascam FW-1884. So far I love it.

I hummed and hawed about getting the FE-8 expansion board for another 8 faders (to make a total of 16), but felt that I could work with 8 for the time being, and scolling through banks is a snap anyway.

Still, I'm sure at some point I'll want the additional faders. One of the attractions of the FW-1884 for me was the fact that you expand it very easily to add faders, and the expansion units actually attach to the main unit, to give it that one-piece-of-hardware feel, rather than a bunch of separate boxes on my desk.

I'm still new to this, but I think the most compelling argument is that I don't need my eyes (as much) to work with a control surface. The less I'm distracted by other senses, the more I can concentrate on what I'm hearing.

I know the order's already gone in, but I can't see a point in the 1 fader thing. I think it would be more frustrating that working on the screen... it probably wouldn't take me too long of switching from channel to another over and over again with a 1 fader unit before I gave up and grabbed the mouse.

I think efficiency and speed are key. Whatever works for you as an individual is what counts... you shouldn't have to think about how to do something, you should just be able to do it when you need to. That way your creative flow isn't interrupted as much. If you can do that with 1 fader, more power to ya!

But what the hell do I know? I just got the thing on Tuesday. :)

Cheers,

Dave

[lebouche]

So after reading all your posts I settled on a Control 24 for Logic and Pro-tools use.
Then I saw the £5,000 price tag.
I added it to my cart for kicks but there was no monthly installment option:Confused: :Sad:
WTF!!!
IdonotneedthisproductIdonotneedthisproductIdonotne edthisproductIdonotneedthisproductIdonotneedthispr oductIdonotneedthisproductIdonotneedthisproductIdo notneedthisproductIdonotneedthisproductIdonotneedt hisproductIdonotneedthisproductIdonotneedthisprodu ctIdonotneedthisproductIdonotneedthisproductIdonot needthisproduct

[Skwaidu]

How doea Control 24 actually work with Logic anyway?

[Brendo]

With difficulty, I would imagine.

Um. Would it show as a regular MIDI controller?

[Watershed]

I know you can program the Command|8 to control other platforms, so I would imagine you can with the C24.
Would be a PITA though I would think.

[Brendo]

but AFAIK, and i could be wrong, command 8 isnt an ethernet controller though, does that change things?

lebouche, look into getting a tascam fw1884 with two extenders, hooked up to a 002r by lightpipe if you want a very similar setup to the control 24 that will control logic at a cheaper price (16 inputs, 24 faders)

[Watershed]

but AFAIK, and i could be wrong, command 8 isnt an ethernet controller though, does that change things?

Correct. Command|8 is USB.

[lebouche]

but AFAIK, and i could be wrong, command 8 isnt an ethernet controller though, does that change things?

lebouche, look into getting a tascam fw1884 with two extenders, hooked up to a 002r by lightpipe if you want a very similar setup to the control 24 that will control logic at a cheaper price (16 inputs, 24 faders)
Thanks Brendo.
I'll check it out.
So I'm not getting the control 24 because its not suitable:Wink: :lol:
I got 3 old 888's for my pro tools. Just considering using it as well as Logic after seeing Kennys Videos...& its good to have a back up system....its hooked up to a G4 quicksilver which is pretty decent and has firewire and USB ins.

Thanks

[Brendo]

Thanks Brendo.
I'll check it out.
So I'm not getting the control 24 because its not suitable:Wink: :lol:
I got 3 old 888's for my pro tools. Just considering using it as well as Logic after seeing Kennys Videos...& its good to have a back up system....its hooked up to a G4 quicksilver which is pretty decent and has firewire and USB ins.

Thanks

Yeah. And the only reason the 002r is in the setup there is to run protools. if you had an ADAT Bridge for PT, you could run it into that, and then another 8 pres by adat - like the presonus digimax or something.

[lebouche]

It seems with all these I need to pay for pre's I dont need.
Are there any decent units which are going to act as just controllers? Also I cant find anwhere in the uk selling the extentions Brendo.
Thanks

[idaguide]

I guess most people will say this about whatever they have, but I LOVE my Command|8.
g
:grin:

[robmacki]

For me, 11 years with kbd and trackball.
But then last year I got a refurbished ProControl and it has totally changed the way I work.
I love it.
The Scrub / Shuttle enhancements after 7.2 are KILLER!!

[PRobb]

How doea Control 24 actually work with Logic anyway?
It doesn't. And I sincerely hope some can give a good explination for how that's the wrong answer.