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View Full Version : Sorry to bring this up again but...



Barish
March 5th, 2007, 12:12 PM
...today I believed once again that it's time that we as mankind get flushed down the toilet, because only pieces of shit would do something like that.

Not doing anything against this is shameful enough.

(Please DO NOT watch this if you are easily distraught by extreme violence, cruelty and torture against animals for their skins, but if you have fur or are into fur, then please DO watch it so that you could be distraught).


http://www.strasbourgcurieux.com/fourrure/


Thank you.

B.

santeri
March 5th, 2007, 04:17 PM
There is no hope. Never been.

http://www.glumbert.com/media/dolphin

bunnerabb
March 5th, 2007, 05:33 PM
Godamnit.

Is there a POINT to treating a living thing with a central nervous system - let alone ones that refuse to leave their wounded - like that?

Is it necessary?

Do we need to cruelly beat them into the dirt?

Corral them and slash them to bits?

Are we still that low on food and shelter?

son of a BITCH!

:Cry:

Mixerpuppet
March 5th, 2007, 06:39 PM
Yikes!

I like Animals....

But...

Until humans start treating other humans better everything deemed to be "lesser as a species" will continue to be treated in such a manner...

Consider Sports...

Consider the video game industry...

Consider Hollywood movies...

If we can't love our neighbors as ourselves what hope is there really?

CurtZHP
March 5th, 2007, 08:02 PM
You're all just mad 'cause dolphins are so cute. If the guy made the same film about tuna, you probably wouldn't have seen it.

Dolphin-free tuna my @$$! It's the dolphins, sharks, and dead sea turtles that choked to death on deflated helium balloons that used to make tuna taste so good!!

:Razz:

emtou2u
March 5th, 2007, 08:34 PM
Dolphin-free tuna my @$$! It's the dolphins, sharks, and dead sea turtles that choked to death on deflated helium balloons that used to make tuna taste so good!!

:Razz:

i know (hope) you're kidding...but i can't laugh...

growing up on a farm it was particularly hard to get off the bus and see my pet hanging upside down :Cry: with it's entrails in a bucket.

as i went to college (Evergreen State College) and found myself surrounded by a communist lesbian newspaper (really:icon_eek: ) , hippies :D , tree-huggin' warriors :Mad: ...i became 'enlightened' :Coolio: ...at times i wish i hadn't.

after school, i had experienced animal research first hand with a sheep study at UCSF...it was tame compared to the research being done on monkeys with what i consider sound torture.

since that time i've been vegan, vegetarian, demi-veg, etc. not because of anything other than the concept that all living things have a spirit or essence. i agree with Mixerpuppet about humans treating humans poorly - yet part of me believes if we start with the animals - we might just get somewhere with the humans.

as i've gotten older - i live closer to my native american heritage than my college years and i do eat some fish and meats. of course, i buy locally from butchers i know or kosher...but when my dad passed, i ended up taking over the family ranch. i ended up putting registered angus there with the intent of raising them chem free - it was a way to support the ranch and supply clean beef to people. i truly believed there could be an honorable way to kill the animals. it came around to "slaughter" time - and i just couldn't do it. there sat thousands of dollars in assets that were living beings. i ended up giving or selling most of the herd. i know what happened to them - and i still feel badly.

now...i'm just rambling...but whether it's tuna for sandwiches, rabbit for a 5 start meal, or cattle for the bar-b-q...everything deserves to be honored and respected when it is used for food.

there is no reason or excuse for goose-liver oil in our facial creams, rabbits on our backs or any other animal torture for beauty or fashion. there just isn't.

sorry to throw the 'wet-blanket' on a light hearted comment i guess i'm still a tree-huggin', sage-burnin', rumi-readin', organic-eatin', feng-shui-decoratin' hippie at heart :Coolio:

(i keep writing Prada to find out when they'll have leather free shoes...i get no response!:lol: )

CurtZHP
March 5th, 2007, 10:25 PM
I'm with you to a certain extent. I have a problem with some animal being killed just for one tiny part, so some broken-down old hag can look five minutes younger, or some guy with a tiny prick can get it up.


As for food, I'll take mine medium rare, genetically engineered for maximum sizzle, with a side order of chemically grown baked potato, covered in bacon bits, butter, and cheeeeeese!!! Oh, and maybe a small side salad.

"Meat is Dead," I've seen on the bumper of some rusted out import. It damn well better be, 'cause it's hard to eat when it's still kickin'!

:Twisted:

santeri
March 5th, 2007, 10:30 PM
(i keep writing Prada to find out when they'll have leather free shoes...i get no response!:lol: )

http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/

That's where my shoes, boots, and belts are from.

Surprisingly, and against all my prejudices, the hand-made veggie combat boots have already lasted almost three times longer than any leather boots I've ever had. In fact, the first pair is still almost like new - after five years of badass Finnish weather. :Thumbsup:

emtou2u
March 6th, 2007, 02:20 AM
http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/

That's where my shoes, boots, and belts are from.

Surprisingly, and against all my prejudices, the hand-made veggie combat boots have already lasted almost three times longer than any leather boots I've ever had. In fact, the first pair is still almost like new - after five years of badass Finnish weather. :Thumbsup:


hey....thanks!

David Aurora
March 6th, 2007, 03:03 AM
wow thanks for the veg shoe link ive been looking for something like that since i lost my fucking mind and quit animal products last year. the only thing still gripping me is the leather boots im wearing, but when these puppies go i know where my next shoes are coming from, and it aint animal.

yeah look, i know we're so used to walking into a store to buy our meat in stuff, and you get so used to it that it seems normal, but once you stop and have a proper think its pretty fucking hard to remain a meat eater. proved impossible to me when i finally thought about it last year. in my opinion, the only meat we have the right to eat is an wild animal we kill in direct combat. nothing wrong with that, its the way of life. but to buy your corpse from a fucking freezer is cheating and pretty fuckin sadistic. and as for animal products/testing....yeah........not fuckin cool. we're just as animal as they are, just with nicer cars, we wouldnt do that to each other (most of us anyways....)

BigBubbaJ
March 6th, 2007, 03:19 AM
since that time i've been vegan, vegetarian, demi-veg, etc. not because of anything other than the concept that all living things have a spirit or essence.


It's tough being at the top of the food chain.
I guarantee whomever knocks us off will not even blink. Aliens, ourselves, whatever. Our society doesnt allow most of us to get that close to the food sources.

I eat animals. They taste good. Most of them.

Now, I did watch all the videos. That is simply wrong, I have to hope that they get the same when all the chips have landed. Whatever that means.

Just wait until research advances and we can prove that plants have feelings. All the vegi folks will be fucked. No wait. that should be Fucked with a capital F.

Until we can make food completely synthetically, it has to come from somewhere.

Best,

BigBubbaJ

lebouche
March 6th, 2007, 03:29 AM
Yep...but the point is you dont have to eat things whom you can look in the eyes.
I'd avoid eating sensative plants because they display thier conciousness.
Have you ever put your finger in front of an ant who's running about on a mission? It'll stop take a step back... an visibly look like its shitting its pants. A soul is a soul and the point is if we dont need to kill/farm to eat then why are we causing this suffering.
Gotta go...burger to eat :Twisted:

dwoz
March 6th, 2007, 04:14 AM
Well, nobody judges a cheetah when it takes down an antelope out on the savannah. Being a carnivore is not inherently immoral.

Killing for sport, entertainment, or fashion, or impetuously/indifferently, you probably could make a pretty damn good argument.

dwoz

lebouche
March 6th, 2007, 04:17 AM
I just thought of a good lambs perspective vegetarian horror.
'Meat the parents'
:Twisted:

BigBubbaJ
March 6th, 2007, 04:34 AM
Killing for sport, entertainment, or fashion, or impetuously/indifferently, you probably could make a pretty damn good argument.

dwoz

No disagreement here.

I was watching something on tv that was a lion hunt.

I was deeply saddened by it. Strange.

Eat it or leave it be. But don't do it to mount it. ( I mean on a wall...you sick fucks.)

I have a picture here at work that is from a fishing trip, a huge king mackeral, but I ate every steak. It's really good blackened.

Cheers all.

lebouche
March 6th, 2007, 04:51 AM
I tried to put this on my wall but it pulled it down...
http://www.planetbangkok.com/images/article_img/giant-catfish.jpg

BigBubbaJ
March 6th, 2007, 05:02 AM
I tried to put this on my wall but it pulled it down...
http://www.planetbangkok.com/images/article_img/giant-catfish.jpg
ROFL.

(btw those are good with a little cornmeal breading)

David Aurora
March 6th, 2007, 05:36 AM
Well, nobody judges a cheetah when it takes down an antelope out on the savannah. Being a carnivore is not inherently immoral.

agreed. but thats the whole point- the cheetah hunts that mofo, and will die if he doesnt kill and eat it. a large percentage of humans will never, ever, ever take down an animal, and could live quite comfortably without eating animals (its funny actually, when i went veg i actually had people thinking i would DIE if i didnt eat meat haha. well, i didnt. didnt lose weight, get sick or any of the other things they thought either), yet they still walk their asses into the supermarket and buy pre-killed and cleaned food just cause its there.

my argument isnt that being a carnivore is immoral. its got nothing to do with morals, its neither right or wrong, its basic biology. animals including humans need food, and meat is a good source. put me out in the bush and fuck vegetarianism, ill grab the first chunk of meat i can beat and eat it. thats natural and normal for our species. i just cant support the way we breed them to stick in stores and eat. animals suffer to become food, and the predator should have to see that face to face and win to earn the right to eat it. but hey, just one mans opinion :) i definitely do realise not everyone shares this opinion, every time i eat with company i have to have this fucking discussion. "why dont you eat meat?? youll waste away... you know humans need meat? blah blah... so why dont you eat meat....???"

people that hunt for sport and shit definitely piss me off though. if youre gonna kill it you better fucking use it for a worthy purpose.

yeah the plants with feelings thing is certainly a headfuck. id put it in the same basket though- if youre gonna eat it you should kill it/pick it/whatever yourself. but goddamn its getting hard with the way the world is set up. im hoping within the next 5 years to get out of town, to a place with a bit of land where i can build a house/studio and just eat whats growing. people think its a pipe dream but i cant think of a better goal. i do it whenever possible with trees in my garden now and shit. walk outside hungry, find something edible, eat it, problem solved. we're only running round in circles trying to get what grows wild at the end of the day. oh shit, im about to go off on an agriculture tangent, time to stop.....

Johnny
March 6th, 2007, 05:42 AM
A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast.

Okay to eat, sinful to abuse.

knightsy
March 6th, 2007, 05:53 AM
http://www.votelamb.com.au/

LOL

emtou2u
March 6th, 2007, 06:06 AM
put me out in the bush and fuck vegetarianism, ill grab the first chunk of meat i can beat and eat it. thats natural and normal for our species. i just cant support the way we breed them to stick in stores and eat. animals suffer to become food, and the predator should have to see that face to face and win to earn the right to eat it.

#1. Get out of my head! this was my point exactly. i had those steaks walking around my parent's backyard- but after everything i knew about soil depletion, how much land it took to raise beef, the fact that you have to supplement all livestock because there is no nutrition left in the soil, etc. what is the point? i stick to my personal belief that some animals are put on this earth as a direct food link for us (some aren't - for instance i see absolutely no reason for veal) - after all we have 2 canine teeth (to shear food) and other than incisors the rest are pre-molars and molars to grind...hmm...grind? oh, that's right vegetables need grinding! At the same time (now it's get to know M2 time) i'm adopted and found my birth father not too many years ago...turns out he is 75% blackfeet/cree by blood quantum level (an entirely different political and ethical discussion). when i met him he had moved from Anacortes, Washington after building malls, and developing cities and was 'living on the land of his people' in Montana (his pipe dream). as we waited for him (he was 'on a hunt') we sat on the front of his cabin steps and took in the scenery. it was hours until finally we saw this huge man come out of the hills. keep in mind this would be the first time i'd ever see him. up walks the strongest, tallest 63 year old you've ever seen. here was this guy 6'7" tall, tan skin and a gray pony tail with a huge wild beast draped over his shoulders - that he CARRIED out of the woods. he had hunted and killed it, performed ceremony and was bringing it down to skin and preserve for the winter.

at the time i was a staunch vegetarian - it was nice to learn more about my heritage and how the animal is honored. nothing commercial in our society honors the animal like what i witnessed that day.

sure he could have gone to the market. but he believed if he was going to eat meat it should be what the earth offers up to him and that yes, he had to look it in the eyes and thank it.


im hoping within the next 5 years to get out of town, to a place with a bit of land where i can build a house/studio and just eat whats growing. people think its a pipe dream but i cant think of a better goal.

#2. it's all a pipe dream....go for it and don't let anyone stop you!

knightsy
March 6th, 2007, 06:30 AM
. im hoping within the next 5 years to get out of town, to a place with a bit of land where i can build a house/studio and just eat whats growing. people think its a pipe dream but i cant think of a better goal.

Like Richard Branson says... "Screw it, let's do it!"

emtou2u
March 6th, 2007, 06:41 AM
Like Richard Branson says... "Screw it, let's do it!"

ok boys...i put some choices together a) or b) are for David Aurora to choose from.....

c) is for knightsy after that lamb chop video! :lol:

Mixerpuppet
March 6th, 2007, 04:05 PM
at the time i was a staunch vegetarian - it was nice to learn more about my heritage and how the animal is honored. nothing commercial in our society honors the animal like what i witnessed that day.

sure he could have gone to the market. but he believed if he was going to eat meat it should be what the earth offers up to him and that yes, he had to look it in the eyes and thank it.

#2. it's all a pipe dream....go for it and don't let anyone stop you!

My parents grew up poor in Wa. State.. I learned the significance of using everything and not wasting.

Looking it in the eyes isn't important, the Cheeta rarely looks in the eyes of his/her pray while bringing it down from the hind quarters. But repect and honor for the life that was taken to me is important. Im a religious guy and believe that animals are a blessing and God should be thanked. In the American culture of fast food and Industry, there is no thankfulness, just primitive savagery of raping and pilliaging.

It's getting worse and harder to teach honor. My daughter gets laughed at because she's 10 and doesn't have her own cell phone.

The government in this country doesn't make it easy to live outside of the big city. The laws and regulations pretty much force you to rely on big government. If you have land with enough resources to survive without an taxable income they will figure out how to suck you into the system via property taxes or license to slaughter livestock.

But people of certain percentages of Native American blood can live the frontier life without the same governmental restrictions. Unfortunately Im just a white boy whose Celtic ancestors specialize in rape and pilliage.


im hoping within the next 5 years to get out of town, to a place with a bit of land where i can build a house/studio and just eat whats growing. people think its a pipe dream but i cant think of a better goal.

That's so.... dreamy!!

Nothing would be cooler than having a nice frontier studio where the band arrives on horses and dinner is cooked over a campfire in the evening... I share a similar dream but Im still trying to figure out how to power it....

If I could somehow get land where I have some river rapids, I could build a small hydro-electric system for the studio and camoflouge it so spy satellites can't find it...

Whahoooo... no more mowing the lawn just to look pretty ;)

CurtZHP
March 6th, 2007, 04:26 PM
I've looked into the eyes of some animals I've eaten, and trust me, there was nobody home!

:lol:

ggunn
March 6th, 2007, 05:25 PM
Looking it in the eyes isn't important, the Cheeta rarely looks in the eyes of his/her pray while bringing it down from the hind quarters. But repect and honor for the life that was taken to me is important. Im a religious guy and believe that animals are a blessing and God should be thanked. In the American culture of fast food and Industry, there is no thankfulness, just primitive savagery of raping and pilliaging.

The cold hard fact is that the food industry has enabled our population to swell to the point (way past that point, actually) where we have become heavily dependent upon it for our very survival. It's fine to talk about moving to the sticks and living off the land, but if everyone made the decision to do that, a lot of people would have to die off before the population would be at a sustainable level. Some think that with the eventual and inevitable collapse of the petroleum industry, such days are coming, anyway, and the best that most of us can hope for is for it not to happen in our lifetimes.

Cheerful, huh?

Oberlehrer
March 6th, 2007, 05:36 PM
agreed. but thats the whole point- the cheetah hunts that mofo, and will die if he doesnt kill and eat it. a large percentage of humans will never, ever, ever take down an animal, and could live quite comfortably without eating animals (its funny actually, when i went veg i actually had people thinking i would DIE if i didnt eat meat haha. well, i didnt. didnt lose weight, get sick or any of the other things they thought either), yet they still walk their asses into the supermarket and buy pre-killed and cleaned food just cause its there.


Given that most people also buy their vegetables in the supermarket (and don't grow them on their own) the "pre-killed and cleaned" argument isn't too impressive to me. That's just specialization - I don't knit my own pants as well although wearing them is probably also crucial for my survival.

I became a vegetarian about one and a half years ago - not for moral reasons, but mostly because I had some very bad experiences with meat and shortly after this the infamous "meat scandal" rocked Germany.
Of course that scandal (meat unfit for human consumption was re-labeled and then sold, big scale) pointed to the core of the problem: It's the excessive amount of meat that is consumed today. People want their daily meat and that leads to all those nasty consequences.

Comte de St Germain
March 6th, 2007, 05:39 PM
Thanks for the veggie shoes link too!

I'm a pescatarian and I only eat what I kill.


All meat industries are fucked, cruel and wasteful and you'll be hearing plenty more about the fish industry soon enough.


I also don't begrudge people for eating meat.


When I went total veggie for a while my doctor told me I needed fish oils for my skin issues that developed so instead of being a pussy and popping cod liver pills from a gill net industry i decided to catch and kill only what we needed.

Dolphin bullshit, dog skinning and all that shit is just inhumane and when I catch a fish at least I'm in control of how it dies. Sure it's cruel, PETA would hate me but i feel better looking it in the eye, bleeding it quickly and putting it directly on ice than having it dragged on a long line for hours or drown in a gill net with Turtles and Porpoises on its way to my table.

Everyone has a line, like it or not, some lines just go too far.

leester
March 6th, 2007, 06:12 PM
This is why I'm glad bacon grows on trees.


Couldn't watch more than about 12 seconds of the vid there B. Not right, not at all.


Food, fine. Fun, fur, fuggit.

me

emtou2u
March 6th, 2007, 07:56 PM
My parents grew up poor in Wa. State.. I learned the significance of using everything and not wasting.

my family went through struggles too. it's not easy and for the most part i like people who grew up poor better (they have a real "real" quality to them)...at one point when my dad's ptsd was so bad he refused to work and wanted to be off the grid - we lived on a farm (in the chicken house)...i milked goats for our milk every morning because we didn't have fridge - never fun picking a hair out of your warm milk cereal. at one point it was as struggle to find $1.81 for a bale of hay for the cows in the middle of winter and we used a hose tacked on the side of the building for a shower...i basically went through a scarlett o'hara moment "i will never go hungry again" which explains my work ethic now...but i learned to work hard, be honest, and be appreciative of everything from a smile to a warm shower! :lol:


It's getting worse and harder to teach honor. My daughter gets laughed at because she's 10 and doesn't have her own cell phone.

i'd love to hear the connection between honor and a cell phone (and i'm not being sarcastic - i respect what you write in your posts) - in the struggles we went through growing up the only thing that could never be taken away from me was my education - so i made a conscious decision to live in a city and send my daughter to a private school - and yes - she has a cell phone. i wouldn't have it any other way though. this is a scary world and her phone has a gps in it. would i prefer to be living on the land somewhere, growing my own veggies, homeschooling or having a great education available to my daughter - yes!!!!! - but the crime in this country is the poor get poorer and well, you know the rest. i donate money to the public school system - but i wasn't willing to let my daughter be a victim of it (entirely different thread).



But people of certain percentages of Native American blood can live the frontier life without the same governmental restrictions.

not true.



Unfortunately Im just a white boy whose Celtic ancestors specialize in rape and pilliage.

as someone who was raised by irish/catholic parents and who later found out they were 37.5% native american...i have an interesting dilemna...in my heart i'm just a white girl with freckles whose last name means, "the bastard son of Gerald" so...in my heart my ancestors were sneaking over on a boat, drinking potato juice that wasn't quite vodka yet...:lol:

Mixerpuppet
March 6th, 2007, 08:11 PM
i'd love to hear the connection between honor and a cell phone The connection is between having the cell phone as status symbol more than a functional device and spoiled children who are dishonoring to people who are not like them.



not true.

I was told this was true by a friend 15 years ago who was Native American (Cherokee) living in Auburn Washington. Maybe it's certain tribes within certain parts of the State, I don't know really just repeating something I was told.





as someone who was raised by irish/catholic parents and who later found out they were 37.5% native american...i have an interesting dilemna...in my heart i'm just a white girl with freckles whose last name means, "the bastard son of Gerald" so...in my heart my ancestors were sneaking over on a boat, drinking potato juice that wasn't quite vodka yet...:lol:

Heh heh...

My wife is like 100% Irish something....

I'm native nothing...

emtou2u
March 6th, 2007, 08:27 PM
The connection is between having the cell phone as status symbol more than a functional device and spoiled children who are dishonoring to people who are not like them. ...


100% AGREE!!!!!!!




I was told this was true by a friend 15 years ago who was Native American (Cherokee) living in Auburn Washington. Maybe it's certain tribes within certain parts of the State, I don't know really just repeating something I was told....

yep...your friend was 100% right to him...everything is perspective, life experience, priorities or tribe...this is an entire thread in and of itself.





I'm native nothing...

your native cool...:Coolio:

David Aurora
March 7th, 2007, 04:09 AM
The cold hard fact is that the food industry has enabled our population to swell to the point (way past that point, actually) where we have become heavily dependent upon it for our very survival. It's fine to talk about moving to the sticks and living off the land, but if everyone made the decision to do that, a lot of people would have to die off before the population would be at a sustainable level. Some think that with the eventual and inevitable collapse of the petroleum industry, such days are coming, anyway, and the best that most of us can hope for is for it not to happen in our lifetimes.

Cheerful, huh?

totall agreed, and understood quite a while back. we are WAY past a naturally sustainable population of humans. that opens up the discussion of starving nations and shit. we feed them and keep them on the brink of death cause it feels humane, yet the most humane thing would be to let nature reduce the population to something the land can handle.......but whos gonna support that charity??? "hey, lets let people starve! its for the best!". if we didnt elevate human life above animals, these problems would sort themselves out much better than we can. oh fuck i must stop typing.......

Johnny
March 7th, 2007, 06:34 AM
There were famines when there were way fewer of us...it's not about "overpopulation" IMHO.

knightsy
March 7th, 2007, 07:44 AM
DAMN!

Just watched the original video Barish posted... that is pretty brutal.

At least kill the poor buggers properly first.

David Aurora
March 7th, 2007, 07:46 AM
There were famines when there were way fewer of us...it's not about "overpopulation" IMHO.

i beg to differ. that IS about overpopulation. no matter when or where famines happen, whether theres 1 million or 1 thousand people, a famine is when there aint enough food for the population. doesnt matter what caused the famine, the bottom line is that if theres only enough food for say 1000 creatures in an area, 1001+ is overpopulation. and then there will be famine as the number grows and there aint enough food.

Comte de St Germain
March 7th, 2007, 03:59 PM
I always get a kick out of this (and it's not about going veggie):

http://www.themeatrix.com/

Johnny
March 7th, 2007, 04:10 PM
Sorry, David, I meant "overpopulation" in the "there's too many humans on the planet" kind of way, not in the local sense. Yes, too many people (or not enough food, however you look at it) can result in famine, but that's true whether there's 6 or 6 billion people involved. Globally, there are plenty of resources for all of us here right now is all I meant.