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David Aurora
March 9th, 2007, 10:34 AM
Copy Controlled cd's.


Ahem.


WHAT THE FUCK???!!!


"Hmmm.....we don't want pirates copying this......so........why don't we make it just as easy to copy, BUT, not work for legitimate users??!!" "Oh, that's brilliant!" "Then it shall hence go forth that the consumer will be fucked over when purchasing, while the pirate will suffer none of the inconvenience".


Yeah.....I bought The Little Willies cd the other day, and as I said elsewhere I love it. The only catch is I had to make a pirate version of a record I bought so I can actually listen to it.

Let's analyse that.....I made a PIRATE copy of a COPY CONTROLLED DISC, which I BOUGHT LEGITIMATELY, so I can LISTEN to it.

Let's just think about that for a second or two.

(by the way, not the first time i've had to do this)

Now, my evil scheme to make a copy went like this....
1. Insert disc into my mac
2. itunes opens
3. Import disc
4. Burn.

Fuck, what amazing technology. There's about a million ways around the shit though if you're unlucky enough to be on a windows machine with the same problem. 6 year olds could hack around this Copy Control bullshit.

If you've never had to deal with one of these cd's (techincally, they aren't classed as cd's I read today actually) you might be wondering what the fuck I'm talking about. Well....

.....they don't even play in heaps of players. Strike one, two and three- a cd has to play in a cd player ("but its not technically a cd! do you see the 'compact disc' logo anywhere?" fuckers.). But fortunately I haven't had that problem, although I guarantee one of my other players won't work with it.

If it does play for you, you have a good chance at more glitches than streaming music. That's the symptom I had the fun of having in my car. Noise not in the background, but as loud as the actual fucking audio. And apparantly it can be loud enough to cause damage although I haven't had that myself so I can't swear by it. But anyway, it's fucking damn near unlistenable. It's like a badly scratched cd.....

....and that's for a reason. The Copy Control system hijacks the error correction info it seems. So apparantly if you rip it in the way they expect you to, you dont get error correction or some shit and you have a crap cd. Problem is of course, that you have a crap cd on the ORIGINAL anyway. and you have to rip it properly to have a copy you can actually listen to.

Jesus fucking christ. Let me make it real clear. If your copy protection scheme gives your users an inferior product, it's not fucking good enough. If I pay for your product, it works or I call you asshole and spread the word. I don't mind spending 5 minutes registering software to help slow piracy and shit, and I'll show my reciept to the guy at the door to prove I bought something, but I find it wholly unacceptable to have to listen to a cd with clearly audible distortion just cause they haven't got their protection technology good enough yet. Assholes.

Oh well, I've made my copy without the protection now, fuck them. Fuck them right in the ear.

Brendo
March 9th, 2007, 10:40 AM
I don't know why, but a lot of Sony CD's don't even show on my MacBook Pro - they just eject. It's a real fucking PITA to have to reboot into windows or use my other computer just to rip a CD.

Cosmic Pig
March 9th, 2007, 11:09 AM
Take it back?

seagate
March 9th, 2007, 11:19 AM
Let's analyse that.....I made a PIRATE copy of a COPY CONTROLLED DISC, which I BOUGHT LEGITIMATELY, so I can LISTEN to it.

I was under the impression you can make copies of CDs you own without breaking the law...

omikl
March 9th, 2007, 12:45 PM
I was under the impression you can make copies of CDs you own without breaking the law...

Depends where you are. The laws on this are different just about everywhere.

David Aurora
March 9th, 2007, 12:51 PM
seagate- i could be wrong, but i recall hearing years ago that under australian copyright law we dont have the "fair use" thingy that people always talk about. it may have changed, but im damn sure about 5 or 6 years ago i was told that making backups of discs you buy is NOT cool under australian law. but dont quote me on that

i dont see much point in taking it back. i know a bunch of people have online petitions and think if you take it back it will change things, but i doubt it. basically if i walk in, i might get a refund, then im without a legit copy of the cd. the label aint gonna send me a new version without copy control and a "sorry for the trouble" case of beer, they will probably never even notice a return.

yeah brendo ive found a few like that too, BUT, they load on other cd drives. for example the dissociatives doesnt show up on my mac, except in my firewire burner. and ive recently swapped the drive and it works still. so sony cd drive inside doesnt see it, old dvd drive did see it, new dvd drive in same lacie case sees it.

Goes211
March 9th, 2007, 01:12 PM
Yup it's one of my pet peeves as well, and Sony are number 1.
I've had several CDs with copy protection from them which either

- will only play in my car in from start to end, meaning I can't play track 7 without first listening to tracks 1,2,3,4,5 & 6. (Blaupunkt CD player, came with the car and is integrated in the dashboard, i.o.w., I can't change it. Actually sounds fantastic.)
- won't play at all.

Better yet, several Sony CDs won't play on my home...Sony CD player.

When buying CDs now, I'm sorry to say I simply avoid the Sony catalogue.
:Thumbdown:

J.G.
March 9th, 2007, 02:48 PM
Another reason to only listen to music from my friends--or the Blackbirds now back from wherever they retreat to in the winter, or their friends...

; J

vanblah
March 9th, 2007, 04:22 PM
Not to go too off-topic but there's a larger truth here. Most bureaucracy (and I lump copy protection schemes in there) hurts the legitimate client/consumer.

For instance: my license plate was stolen. The car I drive is in my wife's name (and the car she drives is in my name, yeah, it's fucked up). When I went to replace my plates I was told that only my wife could replace them. I had the registration.

Why? I asked

Because we don't want people stealing registrations and then coming in and getting new plates.

Hunh? Do you really think a thief is going to steal a piece of paper and go to the DMV and pay $8 for license plates; don't you just think they'll steal the plates or the car itself?

Blank public servant stare.

Copy protection is the same thing. It only makes it more difficult for the legitimate user, but some pencil pusher somewhere wrote down a clause in some contract and now we have to suffer for it. There's not much we can do about it. It's just a rock in the stream, you can try to move it or you can go around it.

Webs
March 9th, 2007, 04:39 PM
It appears at this moment in time that Sony is doing fine in its "shareholder value," but it baffles me. It would appear to this outsider that their business plan is:

1) buy into the record industry as much as possible.
2) ostracize its legal, record-buying public.

This is not their first offence, and sadly is unlikely to be their last.

The (especially) frustrating part to me is when their actions HURT current or future sales by their own label roster.

Imaginary discussion:

SONY: sorry band, you just didn't sell enough.
band: ... but that was partially (or significantly) due to your copyright protection fiascos!
SONY: yeah, sorry about that. Bye now!

magicchord
March 9th, 2007, 05:35 PM
I was under the impression you can make copies of CDs you own without breaking the law...

Well, in America, that's the way it's supposed to be, but opinions vary.

A few years ago I watched a televised argument between a U.S. Senator and an RIAA bigwig:

Senator Orrin Hatch: So if I buy a CD and make a cassette of it to play in my car, or for my wife to play in her car, that's fair use, isn't it?

Hilary Rosen (RIAA): No, Senator, I don't believe it is.

Sen. Hatch: Well, I know it is; I helped write the law.

Oberlehrer
March 9th, 2007, 07:23 PM
It certainly is different everywhere; over here it is not forbidden to make copies for personal use (but that doesn't mean that you have the right to do so); but it's illegal to break copy protection. So in turn it's not allowed to copy those protected CDs since the "breaking copy protection" clause would apply.

It certainly is a nuisance. And there's a lot of hypocrisis, too. Remember that it was EMI claiming to think about selling non-DRM files online? That's the same EMI that has slapped a very shitty protection scheme on most Blue Note releases - and not even just on the new stuff, but on the re-releases as well...

AxeSlash
March 9th, 2007, 08:50 PM
These bigwigs are so misguided. No matter WHAT you do to try and copy-protect something, people will find a way around it.

When was the last time you heard of an "uncrackable" piece of software?

They don't exist.

Thus, in my opinion copy protecting anything will just mean that the less computer-savvy people out there will not be able to pirate it. But then again, if they can't listen to it in the first place (because they haven't got a new fangled technology CD player), hasn't the record company just shot itself in the foot?

My musical tastes mean that I rarely buy major label stuff, so thankfully I'm yet to come across a copy protected CD. But if I bought one, and it didn't work, I'd be pretty damn quick to send it back. I'd be annoyed, but hey, if everyone thinks that way, record companies are gonna get the picture when they look at their statistics and see that the actual sales for copy-protected stuff is nowhere NEAR the projected sales.

But that's wishful thinking.

There's guys out there making money pursuading the bigwigs that they can devise copy protection systems that work. They're probably making a hell of a lot more money than I am. Hence, I can't see this going away any time soon.

Thankfully it hasn't affected me so far (and I'd quite like it to stay that way, major label stuff these days rarely interests me), but if it does I'll be kicking up a fuss. Music is something I care about a lot and being denied my fave band's next release just because some fat cat wants some more in his salary is gonna SERIOUSLY piss me off. I'd certainly be trying to tell the band they need to go elsewhere.

Grrrrr.

seagate
March 9th, 2007, 10:12 PM
seagate- i could be wrong, but i recall hearing years ago that under australian copyright law we dont have the "fair use" thingy that people always talk about. it may have changed, but im damn sure about 5 or 6 years ago i was told that making backups of discs you buy is NOT cool under australian law. but dont quote me on that

Hmmm, so that would make ripping them and sticking them on my iPod illegal...

:icon_eek:

David Aurora
March 10th, 2007, 04:02 AM
Hmmm, so that would make ripping them and sticking them on my iPod illegal...

:icon_eek:

yup (assuming that im right that is.....does anyone know for sure about australia? im too lazy to google that shit right now :lol: )

seagate
March 10th, 2007, 05:29 AM
yup (assuming that im right that is.....does anyone know for sure about australia? im too lazy to google that shit right now :lol: )

Just did a google and found an interesting pdf on the AU copyright site...

http://www.copyright.org.au/pdf/acc/infosheets_pdf/G070.pdf


Apparently since Dec 2006, copying CDs for your own use is legal, including iPods...

:very happy:

PS: Thanks for the Myspace comment!

David Aurora
March 10th, 2007, 08:39 AM
Interesting. That is cool, thanks for looking it up. One bit doesn't feel up to scratch for me though:

"You can copy from a CD if:
• you own the CD;
• it is a non-infringing copy (that is, it was not made illegally);
• you make the copy yourself; and
• you make the copy to play on a device you own. "

The average cd says "Unauthorised copying, reproduction, hiring, lending, public performance and broadcasting prohibited.".

So.....what would that mean? You can make a copy under copyright law, but technically not without authorisation from the label/artist? If that's the case it's a shit sandwich because if you got caught doing something legal in regards to aussie copyright law you'd be violating the warning on the record right? Not that I can really see anyone getting busted for what we're discussing, but it's a matter of principle. It should be clearly defined that either it is or isn't allowed, not "we say yes but they say no, but you need to abide by both our rules".

Sidenote- While looking for info on this just then, I went through the Sony Music Australia website, and they seem quite anti-copy control in their faq.

seagate
March 10th, 2007, 09:15 AM
The average cd says "Unauthorised copying, reproduction, hiring, lending, public performance and broadcasting prohibited.".

Taking a stab in the dark here... Could it be that our copyright rules overwrite what's on the CDs whilst we're in Oz...

I could be wrong though, perhaps our rules only apply to Oz made CDs. This is where it gets hairy and confucious...

:Roll eyes:

MacGregor
March 10th, 2007, 11:25 AM
The average cd says "Unauthorised copying, reproduction, hiring, lending, public performance and broadcasting prohibited.".

So.....what would that mean? You can make a copy under copyright law, but technically not without authorisation from the label/artist?

No, in your land you're authorized to copy it for private use.

But as Oberlehrer already stated, here in 'Ringerland they found
a way around this 'Fair Use' clause by applying a copy
protection to the CDs.
You ARE allowed to copy a CD, but you're NOT allowed to break
the copy protection (BTW, that copy protection clause originally
was NOT made for audio/video content but for software where
it makes a bit more sense).

Like others I had to break that law sometimes to be able to
listen to my purchased CDs in my car.

Now I don't buy CDs with any kind of copy protection any more.
One customer lost to the indies.

Mac

Lorin
March 13th, 2007, 09:44 AM
Blank public servant stare.

Study that look. Learn it.

I recently had to renew my driver's license. When the droid asked what I needed, I explained that I'd received a letter from them saying that my ability to drive had expired, but if I gave them $75 my ability and competence would be magically restored. Instead of the polite giggle I think even that minimal level of wit deserved, I got the BPSS to which you referred, above.

I stored that look in my mind, and practiced it in the mirror.

The next day the talent walked into the control room and said, "Would you please mute my mic before I say anything that shouldn't go to air?" Usually I would say something about having forgotten my telepathy toque at home, or suggest that instead of worrying so much about how I do MY job she should really be working on getting better at hers, or any of about a dozen such lines that have all led to me being called into the Pricipal's office.

That time I just gave her "The Look."

To my amazement (and delight), she just kinda froze, stopped talking, and after a short pause, left the room.

The Look has power. That's why those Government drones use it.