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Scratchy Potts
March 15th, 2007, 02:37 PM
Steely Dan bashing???
I`ve noticed while reading various threads on the Womb
there seems to be a downer on this band.
now i aint no fan,never reaiy listened to the band
and never felt the need to buy there records not my thing!!
but the radio plays I`ve heard like - Do It Again,Reelin' In The Years ,Haitian Divorce etc,etc, dont sound so bad.

so whats the history?? is it a political thing?
it comes across like the Phill collins issue here in the UK

educate me!!

J.G.
March 15th, 2007, 02:42 PM
I like 'em, always have.

There's no accounting for testiness...

; J

dwoz
March 15th, 2007, 03:08 PM
You've heard Haitian Divorce on the radio??????Recently?????



dwoz

Droolbucket
March 15th, 2007, 03:17 PM
LOVE Steely Dan. Great chord progressions, intelligent lyrics, fantastic production. Anybody who brings in Larry Carlton and Jay Graydon is fine by me.
Plus Roger Nichol's behind-the-scenes columns were hilarious. I'd like to find a copy of the time he found some old Twinkies in a storage shed, and compared the amount of creme filling with a brand new Twinkie. I think he made the correlation between the dwindling amount of creme filling in Twinkies with the dwindling quality of studio output. Sounds reasonable to me.:lol:

Droolbucket

Tim Armstrong
March 15th, 2007, 03:44 PM
You won't find me bashing the Dan!

Hey, did Studiotan move over here yet?

Cheers, Tim

Fulcrum
March 15th, 2007, 04:27 PM
I'd like to find a copy of the time he found some old Twinkies in a storage shed, and compared the amount of creme filling with a brand new Twinkie. I think he made the correlation between the dwindling amount of creme filling in Twinkies with the dwindling quality of studio output. Sounds reasonable to me.:lol:

Bam! (http://www.rogernichols.com/EQ/EQ_97-01.html)

Tim, I think ST poked his head up out of his hidey-hole once or maybe twice when the joint first opened, but I haven't seen him since.

I can entirely understand the Phil Collins bashing, it goes on over here too, and for the same reasons-- but Steely Dan are a different matter entirely as far as I am concerned and IMNTLBFHO. They sweat over their songs and arrangements and productions, and it shows. Their characters are drawn with broad strokes, but all are entirely believable and acceptable as human beings even if they might be fictions.

In short, it transcends Yacht Rock.

Scratchy Potts
March 15th, 2007, 04:45 PM
You've heard Haitian Divorce on the radio??????Recently?????



dwoz

:Thumbsup: Yes it`s on most days,take into account I dont listen to FM,thats full of shit here,plastic R&B crap
but we have oldies radio stations
that play this stuff,a bit of Zepand 60`s stuff etc,etc...

:lol: it keeps us rocking in our Zimmer frames!!

Droolbucket
March 15th, 2007, 05:21 PM
Bam! (http://www.rogernichols.com/EQ/EQ_97-01.html)




THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU!

I have a buddy whose day gig is with the Hostess company... I had told him about this article, but I couldn't find it in my moldy accumulation of back issues.

If I had any greenies, I'd pass 'em your way....:grin:

Droolbucket

Shotgun
March 15th, 2007, 05:37 PM
Steely Dan...Great chord progressions, intelligent lyrics, fantastic production.


Notice the omissions from this list: memorable hook and/or melody and "couldn't stop tapping my foot". Remember what EVERY kid on American Bandstand used to say? "It's got a good beat and you can dance to it." Ever try to dance to Rose Darling, or hell, even Reeling in the Years? That shit'll throw a hip out, man.

I put Steely Dan into the same category as Rush. They're a technically accomplished group that, other than a select few tracks, don't appeal to anyone who doesn't have "great chord progression" and "fantastic production" in their vocabulary.

~S

bbkong
March 15th, 2007, 05:48 PM
I put Steely Dan into the same category as Rush.


OH, the pain.

Not even. Everytime I hear Rush I want to rip that guy's adenoids out with a coat hanger.

I was in a band that decided they should cover a Steely tune. That idea lasted about 60 seconds after someone brought in a chord chart.

J.G.
March 15th, 2007, 06:50 PM
OH, the pain.

Not even. Everytime I hear Rush I want to rip that guy's adenoids out with a coat hanger.

I was in a band that decided they should cover a Steely tune. That idea lasted about 60 seconds after someone brought in a chord chart.

Heheheh...

And I'm with ya on the no-like-Rush deal, BB; the sheer lack of smeeeooooooooooth in Rush is enough of a difference to exclude any further comparisons.

Not that I don't appreciate Rush--I just can't seem to lump them into the same category as Steely Dan.

: J

mousdrvr
March 15th, 2007, 07:00 PM
I put Steely Dan into the same category as Rush. They're a technically accomplished group that, other than a select few tracks, don't appeal to anyone who doesn't have "great chord progression" and "fantastic production" in their vocabulary.

~S

Shotgun,

I'm still kinda pouty over the break up thing, But I have to admit that there is pretty consise. :Thumbsup:



In short, it transcends Yacht Rock.


Evil! Evil! Evil! Evil!

...............Well OK you're right it does.


mous

CurtZHP
March 15th, 2007, 07:42 PM
Never liked Steely Dan. To me, their music sounds like hospital food tastes. Yeah, it's produced meticulously, and played expertly, but it does nothing for me.


Then again, I don't like the Beatles either.

mousdrvr
March 15th, 2007, 07:54 PM
Never liked Steely Dan. To me, their music sounds like hospital food tastes. Yeah, it's produced meticulously, and played expertly, but it does nothing for me.


Then again, I don't like the Beatles either.

Hey Curt,

Just out of curiosity, who does do it for ya? I'm not about to evangelize either Steely Dan or The Beatles, I really am just curious.


-mous

Studiotan
March 15th, 2007, 08:37 PM
Notice the omissions from this list: memorable hook and/or melody and "couldn't stop tapping my foot". Remember what EVERY kid on American Bandstand used to say? "It's got a good beat and you can dance to it." Ever try to dance to Rose Darling, or hell, even Reeling in the Years? That shit'll throw a hip out, man.


I put Steely Dan into the same category as Rush. They're a technically accomplished group that, other than a select few tracks, don't appeal to anyone who doesn't have "great chord progression" and "fantastic production" in their vocabulary.

~S

Rush ?
How could you compare such a talented Canadian outfit to this born-again bunch of new-post-modern hippies ?

And don't get me started on chord progression.
Anyone who's ever tried the infamous "D tentative" progression should be sent to a Bulgarian prison.

Studiotan.

Oberlehrer
March 15th, 2007, 08:52 PM
Notice the omissions from this list: memorable hook and/or melody and "couldn't stop tapping my foot".

There are more omissions from this list: "have great tits", for example. So what?
Music comes in all flavours; and usually one doesn't get everything in one package, obviously. Apart from that I find a lot of the SD hooks quite memorable.

I put Steely Dan into the same category as Rush. They're a technically accomplished group that, other than a select few tracks, don't appeal to anyone who doesn't have "great chord progression" and "fantastic production" in their vocabulary.

This may be true, but I don't see anything wrong with that. I can also see why SD doesn't "do anything" for some people; there's also enough music out there that does very little for me. No big deal; I don't listen to it but I let other people enjoy it.

In my opinion this whole bashing is a "justification thing": "I don't like this kind of music; this means there must be something really bad about this music."
In jazz circles I've noticed a similar attitude to the Pat Metheny Group.

jerryskid
March 15th, 2007, 09:01 PM
The Dan rule!!!....Great songs....great playing.....meticulous production and the great Roger Nichols engineering......what more could you ask for??

CurtZHP
March 15th, 2007, 09:17 PM
***********CAN OF WORMS ALERT!!***********


Hey Curt,

Just out of curiosity, who does do it for ya? I'm not about to evangelize either Steely Dan or The Beatles, I really am just curious.


-mous



I'm a big fan of Pink Floyd. Believe it or not, there are songs by Floyd that put a lump in my throat.

AC/DC, as simplistic as their music is (learn four chords and you can play their whole catalog), gets the old blood going.

I find it difficult to keep my foot off the accelerator whilst listening to Motorhead.

Gustav Holst's "The Planets" makes me want to blow sh-t up one minute and cry the next.

Listening to Bach is like mainlining Scripture.

And Barry White.........damn!

Shotgun
March 15th, 2007, 11:06 PM
Rush ?
How could you compare such a talented Canadian outfit to this born-again bunch of new-post-modern hippies ?

And don't get me started on chord progression.
Anyone who's ever tried the infamous "D tentative" progression should be sent to a Bulgarian prison.

Studiotan.


Canadian...I forgot strike four! That's probably the source of all their problems to start with. And as long as I'm thinking about it, the Canadian aspect could explain those pseudo-highbrow lyrics that make me want to suicide-bomb a coffee house.

~S

mousdrvr
March 15th, 2007, 11:48 PM
OK no hooks maybe,

but then why are the melodies for all their hits so easy to remember?

Seriously can you not instantly call to mind,

Peg
Josie
Do it Again
Reelin' In The Years

maybe it's just that I've heard them SO many times but to me they just jump out and start paying in my mind's hear.
What I think is great about these guys is just how complex they can get while remaining accessible. Also I never found the writing to sound forced. Some of the other folks doing it back then always sounded contrived to me when they attempted more complex harmonic structure. I have a video buy Donald Fagen where he talks a little about his writing
process and how basically by accepting the fundamental structure of The Blues you can expand on it without loosing flow or accessibility. Man it's good stuff.



-mous

shlampe
March 16th, 2007, 12:59 AM
It's weird how people can just despise a group or genre for no real reason. I used to dislike steely dan mostly because I couldn't stand the people that really loved them. I felt the same way about bruce springsteen for a long time as well. Then i forced myself to sit down and listen and found that I really did like it, i just had to get the memories of the people that constantly told me that they were awesome out of my head and generate some of my own experiences with them.

My brother was the same way with all of motown (of which I'm a rather large fan). I'd try to get him to listen to some marvin gaye or donna summer or whatever and he'd just tell me it was shit. So he's a huge dead head, and would constantly tell me about how great they are and how jerry did this and jerry did that. So I finally brought up the fact that Jerry covered a hell of a lot of motown w/ the jerry garcia band. To which he said, "well, but, well, I, umm..." and he's begun to at least not hate motown and started to appreciate it a little more. Sometimes you just have to force yourself to listen to something and you might just find out that you like it.

It's my brussels sprouts theory. I used to hate them and my wife loved them so I started forcing myself to eat them, now i don't so much crave them but if my wife wants them for dinner, i'll cook them up and enjoy them.

that said, I haven't been able to do the same with some of the rap artists that are out there, but at least I can say, well i don't like them for this reason and be a little more specific than, "i just fucking hate them"

jerryskid
March 16th, 2007, 02:12 AM
Nice post , shlampe...I agree...the main reason I have such a well rounded taste in music is because I give everything a chance..I just don't shut them out because "they're country"...or "that rap shit"....even though I don't particulary care for either genre, I found some really nice work in both....A closed mind is a terrible thing....

Droolbucket
March 16th, 2007, 03:37 AM
A closed mind is a terrible thing....



Wait... you have a mind?



You think for yourself?














You're not an Ohio native, are ya?:D

Droolbucket

Fulcrum
March 16th, 2007, 03:51 AM
It's weird how people can just despise a group or genre for no real reason. I used to dislike steely dan mostly because I couldn't stand the people that really loved them. I felt the same way about bruce springsteen for a long time as well. Then i forced myself to sit down and listen and found that I really did like it, i just had to get the memories of the people that constantly told me that they were awesome out of my head and generate some of my own experiences with them.

Dude that was so my experience with learning to appreciate Joe Jackson. I had to get past the voice and the new waviness of his sound (and the local DJs who used to remark on-air that he looked rather like a chicken embryo) and listen to the songs.

Applying the same technique to Neil Young and Bob Dylan helped me appreciate them, too, finally.

shlampe
March 16th, 2007, 03:54 AM
Never had the problem w/ joe jackson, heard the bass line on sunday papers and was hooked.

PRobb
March 16th, 2007, 04:05 AM
Notice the omissions from this list: memorable hook and/or melody and "couldn't stop tapping my foot". Remember what EVERY kid on American Bandstand used to say? "It's got a good beat and you can dance to it." Ever try to dance to Rose Darling, or hell, even Reeling in the Years? That shit'll throw a hip out, man.

~S

That's a pretty narrow view of what constitutes good music.

Tim Armstrong
March 16th, 2007, 05:08 AM
I like a whole lotta stuff that has nothing whatsoever to do with Steely Dan music, but I never, ever heard a Steely Dan song that I didn't like. Back when they were first on the radio, I was a teenaged guitar zombie, and hits like "Reeling In The Years" and obscure album cuts like "Kings" (from their first album, Elliott Randall absolutely burning!) really got to me. Later on, as I learned about bass playing, I got into them again (the stuff on Aja is profoundly great), later as bar bands of mine tried (and generally failed, although my present band does an okay "Don't Take Me Alive") to cover their stuff, it was the vocal arrangements that got me.

And don't even get me started about the Beatles, Curt!

:lol:

Tim

jerryskid
March 16th, 2007, 06:42 AM
obscure album cuts like "Kings"


I like "Turn That Heartbeat Over" from the same record.

mousdrvr
March 16th, 2007, 06:59 AM
Never had the problem w/ joe jackson, heard the bass line on sunday papers and was hooked.

Word!

Graham Maby = bass god!


-mous

CurtZHP
March 16th, 2007, 05:01 PM
And don't even get me started about the Beatles, Curt!

:lol:

Tim



I knew that was gonna get me in trouble.

jimmyjazz
March 16th, 2007, 08:43 PM
How exactly do you people define a "hook"? From where I stand (sit), Steely Dan's music is loaded with hooks. Sure, the lyrics can be a bit oblique, but they're memorable nonetheless, and they have a definite way with a melody.

Love the Dan.

Dave Perry
March 7th, 2009, 06:54 AM
You know, there really should be an Official Steely Dan Appreciation Thread...

Scratchy Potts
March 11th, 2009, 11:51 PM
You know, there really should be an Official Steely Dan Appreciation Thread...

:Uh oh: Nah!! cant see that catching on?