This band, that band

[meLoCo_go]

So, the band I'm mixing a record for obviously wants me to take some sonic directions that I find hard to accomplish... The record is pretty heavy with some modern prog stuff. They gave me some references and I find them :cough: symptomatic. One band has HUGE guitars, with everything else relatively small. Other one has cool drums with kinda dark (almost dull) guitars and I think most of drums' coolness comes from the fact that it does not have to compete for space with gtrs. So bands wants to have both... Oh... and the drumming and guitar playing have NOTHING in common stylistically with those bands.

I think I'm probbly not the first one here dealing with such things - what do you do in such situations?

[HOOK]

when I´m in that place, me to go loco.....

Diplomacy will do it............. or a really big gun!:Razz:

Is it possible for you to do it at all, you think?


HOOK

[weedywet]

"well I can try to give you that big drum sound, AND that big guitar sound, but you have to understand that what makes the guitars sound huge in this one is at the expense of the drums and what makes the drums sound huge in the other one is at the expense of the guitars... so we can try it and it might be fun to see what we get. But you need to realise it won't be just LIIKE what they got by only going for ONE huge sound. Right?"

[Tim Halligan]

Call me crazy...

I don't do a whole lot of music recording, but on the occasions that I've been given the "we wanna sound like ____" speech, I've always asked if they have any interest in sounding like themselves.


At least that shuts the ignorant fuckwi...er, clients up for a little while.

Cheers,
Tim

[Donovan Murphy]

I explain to the bands how a speaker can only handle so much and you can only have one instrument in every frequency range.

Also if you teach the band something about recording they'll suddenly have more trust, confidence and respent for you that you really do know what you are doing and will do your best for them.

[weedywet]

You can only have one instrument in each frequency range??

That would mean that if the piano plays in an octave, the guitar can't.

almost everyone in the band plays or sings around middle A.

that means that everyone plays in the 'range' around 440Hz.

[Chris Lambrechts]

I explain to the bands how a speaker can only handle so much and you can only have one instrument in every frequency range.


hmmm ... I don't necessarily agree with that but that aside :

Whenever I get into this type of discussions I tend to first find out WHY it is they want to sound like this or that band and WHAT they think it is they have in common. And let them do the talking for a while.

During their talking I will then, whenever I see the change grab the opportunity to talk about and 'Identity'. More often then not you'll hear stuff like 'Well yeah ... of course we want to have our own identity .... ' And that's exactly the state of mind you have to bring the band members in to. Being convinced that they need an 'Identity'. Once you're there it is a piece of cake really. From that point on the 'we want to sound like ...' becomes 'We are influenced by ...'

You can do all the explanations in the world about how their music is different and how the arrangements are different and all that yada yada ... but in the end this is rarely or never what will change their mindset. Convince them of the 'Identity' thing. And take it from there. Working with young bands / artists ... depending on your envolvement in the project asks for a great amount of personal skills. I often tell my wife I'm sometimes more a psychologist then an AE. It comes with the package that makes you a better AE imho. Same goes for getting the best out of them performance wise. Sometimes you need to talk them into heaven and at times you talk them deliberitely into Hell .... just so you can save them from it after you did that.

Chris

[otek]

Sometimes you need to talk them into heaven and at times you talk them deliberitely into Hell .... just so you can save them from it after you did that.


That's an awesome way of putting it, and right on the mark. :Surprised:

Thanks Chris!


otek

[chckn8r]

"well I can try to give you that big drum sound, AND that big guitar sound, but you have to understand that what makes the guitars sound huge in this one is at the expense of the drums and what makes the drums sound huge in the other one is at the expense of the guitars... so we can try it and it might be fun to see what we get. But you need to realise it won't be just LIIKE what they got by only going for ONE huge sound. Right?"

I'm with the others here - it's a mix of diplomacy and education - I'm assuming you're interested in keeping the client happy, so the "customer is right" thing is probably the best way to go. BUT, you probably also want to be manipulative in your approach so that they think it's their idea to compromise.

It's not the quickest process, but it avoids a lot of head-butting and (usually) break-downs in the whole relationship. It's probably going to take an approach of "yes I'll see what I can do" - give them three rough mixes (if you have time of course) - one with big drums, one with big guitars and one with both. Let them listen to them and hear what they have to say - reinforcing the points that make your case. Hopefully, they'll hear the problems with wanting too much of everything