Coddling: reality and false reality.

[Comte de St Germain]

I run a small, well stocked facility that sees a fair share of up and coming bands.

This work is generally very satisfying, moreso than the major label/prima donna crap I've been blessed with.

Something that has come up on the Critique forum is the notion of band members being unable to pull stuff off in the studio.

reasons for this: Overplaying, over the head playing, drunk, unprepared... etc etc.

I strongly believe that early in a band/musicians carreer they need to learn from their mistakes.

Real life lessons.

(The budget on this one was TIGHT)

On the tune over there I couldv'e edited the hell out of it and made it line up better but to a degree the average person wouldn't hear much of a difference and most importantly I would have cheated an artist with much potential from learning the most solid lessons of all.

No, I'm not gonna tell them not to redo stuff and just keep the clams but I am gonna let them make their own mistakes and guide them later on.

What am I getting at?


Our slice and dice culture is creating music that is mathematically perfect and musicians who are convinced that performances can be edited in perfection.

A performance is not perfect, it is passionate.

Cultivate PASSION motherfuckers.


Not the sample accuracy.

[malice]

Great thread.

I just finished a project for a label. It was for a singer with no band, so we picked musician from several bands (not session musicians per se, but more good musos from the rock scene)

They wanted to rehurse before the studio, and we decided that we wouldn't grant the request to stay "fresh" on the songs.

I'm really pleased with the result. It was a bit more work tracking, but the vibe was reaaaaaaal interesting.

I guess "overdoing things" is a great pitfall of modern production.

something we must have inherited from the 80'

malice

[bunnerabb]

A performance is not perfect, it is passionate.

Cultivate PASSION motherfuckers.

:Thumbsup:

[Goes211]

Cultivate PASSION motherfuckers.

Not the sample accuracy.

Spot on.
:Coolio:

[Calvin]

Absolutely correct.

I can vouch for this approach (letting the artist learn) from my own experience (speaking as a musician). I can listen back to recordings through the years and hear the improvements. Each time I went through the process I learned something, grew as an artist.

Once upon a time, many moons ago, way back in the day, my band mates and I booked some time at a little studio down the street in our home town. The owner/AE was a guy working out of a studio (8 track) he built in his parent's garage. We showed up with our "producer" who tried to basically beat perfect performances out of us. We were very inexperienced, and couldn't pull off what he wanted the way he wanted it. Miserable day. After the session, the AE very discretely suggested to the band that we lose the "producer" and come back another day. We did just that, and had a great session. The AE/de facto producer pushed all the right psychological buttons. The performances were no where near perfect, but to this day I get a kick out of listening to the tunes that came out of that session (and others that followed) because of the passion element. I can still feel the emotions that I felt back then because of the authentic performances. The AE? Matt Wallace, who went on to produce/record Faith No More, Maroon 5, etc. So, I was lucky to get some good guidance early on that has served me well. OK, at least I don't rot quite as badly as I would have without that good experience early on. :)

Sounds like Comte and Malice are giving their artists the same kind of tutelage that I received back in the day. :Thumbsup: Hopefully their artists will turn out better than I did, though. :D

[Mixerpuppet]

.

something we must have inherited from the 80'




Oh.... 1980's The Decade ADAT became available.....


I refuse to use razors.... When I was a budding middle aged guitarist I felt an unedited performance in the studio meant a better live show for the fans. I took pride in my abilities and made efforts to improve in areas where I could.

Should anally retentive obsessive controlling people have it their way all the time?

Find the Fibe...

Feel the Groove...

Work it baby...

Make it real...

Music should be felt... not analyzed.




Try it with sex...explain it play by play in technical terms.

Not the same is it...

Ever tried it with a clicktrack? :very happy:

[Scratchy Potts]

Agree!! sometimes you can edit out the Funk

[dikledoux]

Agree!! sometimes you can edit out the Funk
And you simply CAN'T edit IN the funk. There's an RHCP song with the line "funk is a attitude..." and it's a simple truth. Funk, groove, attitude, passion... whatever. That kinda stuff is real-world magic n' miracles. No edit will EVER produce it.

Call me a zealot. I don't care.

dik

[otek]

Oh.... 1980's The Decade ADAT became available.....


Actually, the ADAT's were introduced in 1991. :)


- Osmartasstek

[Mixerpuppet]

Actually, the ADAT's were introduced in 1991. :)


- Osmartasstek



Holy False Realities it's working!!!!


Eject eject!!!


See...

They suck so bad they ruined the late 80's retroactively...

I wonder if some parallel Universe Collapsed after thier introduction...



Your quite right on the serious side.. I was still using RtoR in 1989-92 and remember by boss entertaining the idea of having both ADAT and conventional tape... till he heard ADAT.

They say your mind is the first to go....

Otek just proved he's younger... at heart if not in chronological disorder...

I'm proud to say IM ADAT free and never paid a single dollar for any of it...

[Pimp-X]

Sadly, every time I see this thread title I misread it and think it's about cottaging. Aiee.

Stupid brain!

[Mixerman]

A performance is not perfect, it is passionate.

Cultivate PASSION motherfuckers.


Not the sample accuracy.

A. Men.

Mixerman

[oudplayer]

Our slice and dice culture is creating music that is mathematically perfect and musicians who are convinced that performances can be edited in perfection.

A performance is not perfect, it is passionate.

Cultivate PASSION motherfuckers.

Not the sample accuracy.

Actually, I see a worse situation more often. A band came in to track a 5-song demo. Good guys, play live quite a bit, have a following, never have been in a studio before. I was warned by the arranger that if the drummer couldn't cut it don't worry, I'll program the drums. Mind you, this is a rock band. The drummer has potential to be good, but his hi hats are a 32nd behind consistently (though kicks are on the click - go figure!), and every snare hit sounds like a different drum recorded under a different barometric pressure with a different mic. Not exactly clean and even. Anyway, after only 2 hours of working on one song the arranger tells me to delete all the drum parts and calls the drummer in the room. The arranger doesn't want to deal with editing the parts, so he'll program them in with BFD.

The same happened to one of the group's rhythm guitarists, now to be performed by Steinberg Virtual Guitarist.

At least the singer and bass player made the cut...

[Comte de St Germain]

Actually, I see a worse situation more often. A band came in to track a 5-song demo. Good guys, play live quite a bit, have a following, never have been in a studio before. I was warned by the arranger that if the drummer couldn't cut it don't worry, I'll program the drums. Mind you, this is a rock band. The drummer has potential to be good, but his hi hats are a 32nd behind consistently (though kicks are on the click - go figure!), and every snare hit sounds like a different drum recorded under a different barometric pressure with a different mic. Not exactly clean and even. Anyway, after only 2 hours of working on one song the arranger tells me to delete all the drum parts and calls the drummer in the room. The arranger doesn't want to deal with editing the parts, so he'll program them in with BFD.

The same happened to one of the group's rhythm guitarists, now to be performed by Steinberg Virtual Guitarist.

At least the singer and bass player made the cut...

That helps no one.

Merely proves that some producers don't understand the job they are there to do.

I have access to high volatge for such jacklegs.

[Cosmic Pig]

So where's the line? Is replacement the line or is it autotuning or micro-editing.... Does the line go as far as comping trax?

Well I'm glad I asked that, thanks. The line changes with the situation. If someone shoots me some hard earned dough I imagine it would be for trax, not lessons. I give them the option in the hopes they'll be happy. However, the concept that it's all about the music is always agreed on most fervently so it's not often an issue. The debate might be where the music stops being musical. Where the hacks start looping because they can't play worth shit. I seem to get a lot of kids in here that ain't exactly even remotely decent. So rather than shooting holes in their egos I tell them we'll do all the tricks but you'll have to practice like little mutherfuckers to be able to play it live, and if you don't practice your asses off you're all destined to be looper trance DJ fags.

Anyways... it's either do it up or give the little shits a pile of crap. They gave me months of their allowance... I haven't the heart to pop their little shit bubbles. Mind you no matter what you do the perfomance will still turn out raw.

But I do agree. I guess the line is in the performance?

Cos.

[Comte de St Germain]

Get it up front.


The line moves with every project.


Punches are nothing new and to a degree one bad note punched into a passionate solo is much better than take 31 which was autotooned and comped from take 31-37.

More whip cracking and less putting on make up.

[Capital D]

Get it up front.


The line moves with every project.


Punches are nothing new and to a degree one bad note punched into a passionate solo is much better than take 31 which was autotooned and comped from take 31-37.

More whip cracking and less putting on make up.

I think it would be better to have recordings that represent what a band really sounds like live, than a recording that the band can not reproduce if their lives depended on it. I'd rather hear the solo with the bad note than an "autotooned" comped solo.

Some "musicians" can't play. They shouldn't be recording, they should be practicing. But then again, money talks.