Setting BPM when tracking drums/band

[takk]

I mostly use my DAW for solo projects, but recently acquired enough inputs/pre's to track a drummer and/or full band. My question is about setting the project's BPM in the DAW. My guess would be that you want to have the project's BPM the same as what the drummer is actually playing, and to start with a metronome click to get started on the beat, so that everything lines up nicely. Part of me says this is the way to go, but that it is easier said than done. I think the reality is that a drummer is going to start out right on time, but might drift in and out throughout the whole song. And I think putting a click track through the whole thing might be distracting.

My gut feeling is to set the BPM as close as possible to the track about to be recorded. Then after that don't bother with any "snap" (1/8th, 1/4, snap to time, etc...) simply use insert of markers and snap to markers to be my reference points for editing. Hope that makes sense. I would not be using any MIDI, just purely recorded audio, typical rock band application.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

- Takk

[archtop]

If your guys not proficient with a click.

I wouldn't spring it on him now.

[Brendo]

hey. sorry, off topic... are you a sigur ros fan?

back on topic: which DAW are you using? kenny has a video tutorial on conforming a click to a drummer.

[takk]

I'm using Sonar Home Studio 6

[ckerian]

I disagree, I have been surprised with most drumemrs reaction to a click. i have a rule.. if you're not neil peart and your band isnt rush (most kids have no grove, swing, or feel anyways) give them the damn click. I want for the drummer to be hearing that click ringing in his ear that night. I want him so sick of click! click! click! click! click! click! click! click! click! click! click! click! that he not only want's to chop his own head off but he also wants to chop mine off. LOL. seriously.

otherwise if ya dont track to a click just put your timebase into minutes|seconds cause GRID mean nothing to music that wasn't tracked to it.

[Comte de St Germain]

Assuming you are hellbent on using a click...

Get the band to play the song and monitor the click in YOUR phones until it's dialed in.

Chances are the band may be used to sway between verse and chorus and that's where you need to be the judge as to where the groove lies.

[Tim Armstrong]

otherwise if ya dont track to a click just put your timebase into minutes|seconds cause GRID mean nothing to music that wasn't tracked to it.

+1

Cheers, Tim

[takk]

Yeah, I think I'll set to minutes/seconds and forget the click. I can do what I need with markers. If I were building loops or using time-based effects that would be a different story, but I'm not. thanks for the info.

[malice]

Wether a band needs or doesn't need a clic is very dependable on their experience, the music they play, the vibe you seek etc ...

I had a drummer lately that only swear by playing listening to a Roland TR 55 vintage rythm box (you know, the Timmy Thomas one, or the one of Sly Stone "Familly affair" ); Needless to say that i spent quite much time finding the exact BPM in the DAW, like you have to decide between 92.4537 or 92.4538 because it shift about 10 samples in the grid after 5 minutes, that sort of thing these box have no smpte sync whatsoever).

But he was obviously playin better "with" than "without". And sometimes, I was floored by the pattern he chose to play along with, because it was often very weird and seemed "ungroovy" for the song (it's a preset rythm box, mind you).

Some drummer feels more comfortable with a clic, some can find a good tempo while rehursing, and then you'll have to match a scratch take with your clic, some only need a guide for the first verse then you can cut it, some need guidance from you because they insist on playing the wrong tempo, some doesn't need a clic at all.

Some can play with no clic at all on a band that allready played their tracks and are able to replace a drum take like if they were playing live, I have made a couple of those cats, it's rather amazing to witness, believe me.

Bottom line is that they are no rule of thumb regarding clic tracks in studio.

malice

[otek]

Get the band to play the song and monitor the click in YOUR phones until it's dialed in.

What The Comte said.

This way, you can find a good median of the tempo the band selects naturally for a song, without unduly influencing them.

I will not force a click on a band if it doesn't directly benefit the feel. Some bands have a good groove but vary in tempo. If the tempo variations become distracting (and mind you, they don't always do), I will try to get the drummer used to playing with the click. A drummer with a good, natural time feel can actually get into it reasonably well in a few hours.