overheads from Hell

[Scratchy Potts]

Im in the position at the moment where I have to use
Custom & Vintage DFH
I`ve bin reading threads about various drum micing techniques
and it seems,most of you Guys use more overhead
and room,in your kit mix`s than individual drum Mic`s
obviously theres no varation within the Superior Drummer
to alter the overhead mic placement,and using the programme
in it`s basic form, ie,all mics are set at a certain volume
when it comes to mix the bounced down audio trxs
the overhead mix dont feel right to my ears
I just can`t seem to get that air around the kit!!

SOooooo!! my qeustion to the EARS on this great Board is!!

having never miced up a kit personaly,would I be barking up the wrong tree
if I muted all the other Mic channels,and programme the kit
listening to the O\H`s only,thus creating a balanced kit
(not that i know what a overhead mix sounds like)
and then bleeding in the individul mics to taste?

or should I fuck off and get a job at Mackie Dee`s??..:Roll eyes:

ps Tanks in advance.....:Thumbsup:

[dikledoux]

if I muted all the other Mic channels,and programme the kit
listening to the O\H`s only,thus creating a balanced kit
(not that i know what a overhead mix sounds like)
and then bleeding in the individul mics to taste?
If what you hear from the overheads is very close to what you're looking for in the final mix, then definitely. In fact, you've described something of a tried and true method for getting a fairly natural drum sound. The main drawback is that if your room is bad, the overheads will show it.

dik

[Trazan]

the overhead mix dont feel right to my ears

You know that you can control the level of each single drum/hat/cymbal hitting the various mikes, including the OH's?

[Scratchy Potts]

You know that you can control the level of each single drum/hat/cymbal hitting the various mikes, including the OH's?

Yea Trazan I do..but i dont use the mic bleeds etc until the
Drum track as been programmed and each mic channel rendered
down to audio,it tales up a lotta cpu to use it in real time
plus i prefer to work with the rendered files
but when We programme the kit this way we find that the O\h`s are very kick light and cymbal heavy,even though the kit sounds ok`ish when we are programming it

dik this is what i was thinking about!
if I get the O\H`s souding right,I can then bring in the close mics and bleed to beef up or coulor the kit
this seems to be a more flexible aproach
but as I say I`ve not had the pleasure of micing a real kit
so i wasnt sure if it was the right way to go.

If I was to mic a kit from scratch,i think I`d try to get the O\h`s as close to what I wanna hear as I could,and then work on any other mics I had on the kit
you seem to suggest this is the normal aproach?


If theres any kind soul here that wouldnt mind
putting up an Mp`3 say two bars of O\h`s and the same two bars with the added mic mix.

I would wash ya sox for a week!..:Thumbsup:

[GeeWhoLeeo]

You know that you can control the level of each single drum/hat/cymbal hitting the various mikes, including the OH's?

hey scratchy, listen to traz
he's rite 100%, mate

those single tracks need blending, need to be put together, need some kind of impollination.
they need some... some... MIXING!:lol:

[Scratchy Potts]

hey scratchy, listen to traz
he's rite 100%, mate

those single tracks need blending, need to be put together, need some kind of impollination.
they need some... some... MIXING!:lol:

EeR Yup!!! I know!...and thats wot I do
but cant seem to get the O\h`s to give me wot I want

thing is,I have three drum takes I wanna finish
if I go the way Im thinking,and thats programme
the kit with all but the overhead muted
thats a lot of velocity tweekin .:Mad:

but I would end up with a good overhead mix ??
and still have all the other mic traks to slip in where and when I needed! ...
but I`d sure as hell like to know before I start Geekin it up!!..:Confused:

[otek]

i dont use the mic bleeds etc until the Drum track as been programmed and each mic channel rendered down to audio

Um, forgive me but this is not making any sense to me. How can you hope to affect the balance AFTER you rendered it to audio?

Also, Trazan clearly stated you could affect the balances of each drum in each mic, so I fail to see the problem.....

[Scratchy Potts]

Um, forgive me but this is not making any sense to me. How can you hope to affect the balance AFTER you rendered it to audio?

Also, Trazan clearly stated you could affect the balances of each drum in each mic, so I fail to see the problem.....

Im sure you know the superior Drummer Otek
I read you topic about drum progs etc and a good read it is too!

thing is if i programme a drum trak without using the levels
in superior to mix the mics ie real time,and then render down to audio!..the overhead mix seems to be a very light on kick
and it`s this sound Im trying to capture,a more open roomy kick
I figured if I mix the O\H`s so the kit sounds ballanced
I can then use the other trx`s as an when!
hope this makes sence mate?...Im begining to wonder my fucking self..:Confused:

[Trazan]

Still not sure what your problem is....

You mentioned the mixdown sounding different from what you hear when programming. Yes, that's because you're probably not listening with all bleed engaged. What you should do to get the mix you want in the OH's is listen to the programmed drums while tweaking the bleed for each drum into the OH.

Here some live drums in a small room. 4 bars each, so you owe me 2 weeks of sock washing.

[Scratchy Potts]

Still not sure what your problem is....

You mentioned the mixdown sounding different from what you hear when programming. Yes, that's because you're probably not listening with all bleed engaged. What you should do to get the mix you want in the OH's is listen to the programmed drums while tweaking the bleed for each drum into the OH.

Here some live drums in a small room. 4 bars each, so you owe me 2 weeks of sock washing.

:Thumbsup: Tarz!..feel free to send your undercrackers over too mate
thank you kindly this confirms it
your overheads sound like i would expect man
where as the drummer O\H`s have virtualy no kick
I now have a guide as to how my O\H`s should be balanced
the cls mics and bleeds will come into play fo sho
once again Mate thanks a lot...:Coolio:


:Uh oh: ....... you do change regular!.dontcha???

[otek]

thing is if i programme a drum trak without using the levels in superior to mix the mics ie real time

That was my whole point. If it's not loud enough, use the levels in DFHS - you have to in order for this to work.

If I didn't use the preamp gain on my console, I'd have a pretty hard time balancing things, too. :Roll eyes:

Though, aside from the unfortunate laundry detail, you seem to have this thing sussed out now. :D

Thanks Trazan.

[Brendo]

Ola, i think the issue is that the overhead balance is askew.

I.e. its the equivalent of a drummer who can't balance themself. Scratchy here is basically dealing with the equivalent of a virtual cymbal basher.

Scratchy, the drum module will do whatever you tell it to - it's not 'smart', it can't balance itself.

[Scratchy Potts]

Ola, i think the issue is that the overhead balance is askew.

I.e. its the equivalent of a drummer who can't balance themself. Scratchy here is basically dealing with the equivalent of a virtual cymbal basher.

Scratchy, the drum module will do whatever you tell it to - it's not 'smart', it can't balance itself.

Ola and Brendo thanks for the input, this is real hard to explain!
now that traz as given me a sample of real O\H`s
Im in a position to duplicate what balanced O\H`s sounds like
in the real world

the problem I had was,to run Drummer within a mix
in real time,and then to use the bleed and close mics
would push my Daw to the point of crapin out!
even though I run Dual xeon 2.80 Ghz rig
(may need more RAM)
so I needed to first programme drum tracks
render down to audio,and then mix to taste
but the audio O\H track had virtualy no Kick
it`s a matter of Velocitys in the drum tracks
they are fine with the close mics etc in but when you solo the audio O\H`s No fuckin kick
I think it`s sorted now,the way i see it
I just mute all drum channels when Im programming
with the exception of the O\H`s get that balance right
in the O\H`s,ie like a kit recorded with no Close mics etc
then render down all drum tracks,
all Audio files render down to -4 db from Drummer
then I can mix in the other audio drum tracks
if needed to the well balanced O\H track

sorry for this long arsed post but it`s bin buggin the fuck outa me!!

once again thanks a bunch to all those guys that helped
this place is so much better than the !...well ya know!..


:Thumbsup: Stay Cool guys...:Coolio:

[otek]

I must be real bad at explaining myself in English because Brendo and Potts just went and elaborated on what I thought I had already said. :Roll eyes:

My thing was, if you want to set your balances in the overheads (so that the entire kit mix works from the overhead mics alone) you naturally have to solo the overheads (just like I would solo anything when mixing to get the individual sound right) and then render all the close mics separately.

Are we done now? :lol:

[Pimp-X]

Glad it's not just me, either :)

[Scratchy Potts]

I must be real bad at explaining myself in English because Brendo and Potts just went and elaborated on what I thought I had already said. :Roll eyes:

My thing was, if you want to set your balances in the overheads (so that the entire kit mix works from the overhead mics alone) you naturally have to solo the overheads (just like I would solo anything when mixing to get the individual sound right) and then render all the close mics separately.

Are we done now? :lol:

we sho am Boss!!! thanks a lot O\h`s just what I want now
the kit sounds so much better...:Coolio: