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archtop
May 3rd, 2007, 07:59 PM
So I got these 2 mixes of the same song, different mixes,
'cause one was done here ITB stock pluggs, and the other was mixed freehand on a Neve and mixed to 1/2",
but the same tracks.

I'm curious as to how obvious you think it is, as to
what one is what.

Different mixes make it a challenging mission,
should you choose to accept it.

Artist has not been made aware of,
so we should keep it on the down low, and
not mention it if he's around. O.K.?

jimmyjazz
May 3rd, 2007, 08:08 PM
Interesting. I'm just listening on a small Denon receiver with tiny Mission bookshelf speakers, so I'm not sure I'm getting the whole picture, but my comments & questions are:

1. is "A" louder"?
2. if not, then "A" sounds heavier, thicker, muddier, more engaging. If "A" is louder, I may be getting fooled by volume differences, but I don't think so.
3. "B" seems cleaner, and lighter in the loafers. More "hifi" in a way, but less ballsy. It seems to have a way different sonic character.

I wish I had more time to go listen to the little differences for clues, I'd say "A" is the Neve and "B" is ITB. You probably pulled a fast one on us and went the other direction. I'd like to hear WAV files on my big system to be sure.

kwiksilver
May 3rd, 2007, 08:35 PM
I can only listen over headphones at work and I'm currently on Thin Client whose audio drivers suck donkey balls.

However, I prefer Mix 2.

I can turn it up and still hear the mix much clearer than Mix 1 which gets muddled the louder I turn up the volume.

My 2 cents. FWIW

dikledoux
May 3rd, 2007, 08:43 PM
Hard to say - they're two substantially different mixes. Drums have more SMACK on 'B', but the bass guitar is mixed way down comparatively. 'A' seems louder and has more space/verb - nice bass sound, and those two things make this mix bigger.

Out of curiosity, why is it important where either one was done? Either one coulda been accomplished with either setup, no?

dik

Mixerpuppet
May 3rd, 2007, 10:57 PM
A.mp3 is the Freehander and the 01.mp3 is the ITB...


:)

Joel DuBay
May 4th, 2007, 02:14 AM
Gotta say I liked Mix 2.

Though I like much of my music bigger, louder, etc, I'd agree that when turning it up, it kept everything where it seemed like it was supposed to be.

neat stuff.



Joel

www.readyacoustics.com
Acoustics Geeks

jerryskid
May 4th, 2007, 07:18 AM
here's my favorite mix :


http://store.honeyvillegrain.com/ProductImages/bakerymix/FudgeBrownie200.jpg

















Actuallly I liked the 2nd one.......

Baddo
May 4th, 2007, 10:25 AM
Mix A has the additional guitar and that makes it sound more interesting to me than Mix B.
Also the roomy drums give it more attitude and that I like too.

I choose Mix A.

TSTW
May 4th, 2007, 11:31 AM
So I got these 2 mixes of the same song, different mixes,
'cause one was done here ITB stock pluggs, and the other was mixed freehand on a Neve and mixed to 1/2",
but the same tracks.

I'm curious as to how obvious you think it is, as to
what one is what.

Different mixes make it a challenging mission,
should you choose to accept it.

Artist has not been made aware of,
so we should keep it on the down low, and
not mention it if he's around. O.K.?

I think this is a good thread. Perhaps this should be done more often?

Theshovel
May 4th, 2007, 12:24 PM
Mix B is the Neve, Mix A Pro Tools. Mix B just sounds better all the way through.

sqkychair
May 4th, 2007, 04:39 PM
I like A better. I did adjust for the volume.

I am betting that A was ITB.

waterboy
May 4th, 2007, 04:53 PM
I can tell that the snare drum in mix B is more apparent than in mix A.
I really have no clue as to which was done in the box .... do tell!

magicchord
May 4th, 2007, 11:40 PM
Yeah, the mixes are quite different and I think either mix could have been accomplished either way...

But A sounds like analog tape, probably 15ips,
And B sounds digital. To me.

kwiksilver
May 5th, 2007, 10:04 PM
I can only listen over headphones at work and I'm currently on Thin Client whose audio drivers suck donkey balls.

However, I prefer Mix 2.

I can turn it up and still hear the mix much clearer than Mix 1 which gets muddled the louder I turn up the volume.

My 2 cents. FWIW

Hey archtop,

After listening to the two mixes over my monitors at home, I now prefer Mix A. It's got more balls. The snare on Mix B starts to grate on my ears after several listens.

The additional guitar on Mix A certainly makes a difference.

I won't venture a guess as to which one is in ITB and which one is tape.

kwiksilver

archtop
May 7th, 2007, 07:40 PM
Thank you for your time and investigation.

I think these two mixes being different has not only
made this goofy and innacurate as far as test is concerned,

it also brings up a question of whats more important.

the gear or the mix.


A. is ITB PTle here

B. is Freehand on the neve to 1/2" (and back)


I really enjoy mixing on the good hardware gear.

Asking them to spend more money for it
is where I'm struggeling.


The benefit of being able to open my mixes here
and tweak any random thing, is a benefit that is hard to overlook.


And that kinda brings up another fun topic.


Charting you analog freehand hardware mix.



Mine is so constantly changing that I never feel
very comfortable writing down ANY setting and saying.
Yeah!, that's exactly where it's supposed to be.

So, I NEVER write ANYTHING down.


But this client thinks it would be good if everything was
charted and we could go back to this room
and reset everything to our charted settings
on all the outboard gear and console etc.
and there is our mix.

I just don't think it's feasable with our non existant budget.
(we did 4 songs in a 1/2 day)

maybe with a statastician keeping things constantly updated.

BUT EVEN THEN

I bet the mix would be WRONG.

magicchord
May 7th, 2007, 08:11 PM
Yeah, the mixes are quite different and I think either mix could have been accomplished either way...

But A sounds like analog tape, probably 15ips,
And B sounds digital. To me.


A. is ITB PTle here

B. is Freehand on the neve to 1/2" (and back)

Hehehehe... That's what I meant to say... :Roll eyes:

dikledoux
May 8th, 2007, 03:03 AM
A. is ITB PTle here

B. is Freehand on the neve to 1/2" (and back)
So quit knocking off the front end of the drum sounds on PT and you'll have the best of both worlds. A big rich mix with drums that have some smack. :lol:

Cuz honestly, that's what I liked about the second one - the drums made the speakers jump around. Isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

dik

Mixerpuppet
May 9th, 2007, 03:11 AM
All I know is that what ever my guess is, the opposite must be right... because I guessed the opposite of what I initially thought was right and psyched myself out thinking I was being psyched out...

Should I really be driving a car?

jimmyjazz
May 9th, 2007, 07:07 PM
That's fascinating. To me, "A" sounded MUCH more "analog". I realize that the two mixes were different, but I think you have still shown that it's possible to get a heavy "analog" sound ITB and a separated, hifi sound through a board. (The latter should have been obvious, because people have been doing that for years.)

Thanks!

FajitaTone
May 10th, 2007, 02:15 PM
Archtop, you got a digital camera? Take pictures of the board/outboard. Put it in the folder that stores the invoices for the sessions, that way it's all recallable, even the hourly rate.

:Thumbsup:

nobby
May 10th, 2007, 02:44 PM
Just listening to it once on a '70s Sansui stereo my impression is that the bass player playing in the pocket would make a bigger difference than the difference between the two platforms.

I hope this helps :Twisted:

nobby
May 10th, 2007, 02:54 PM
Okay, listening on K240 cans, the second one sounds more clearly articulated, i.e. I can hear the skin on the kik and the harmonics better on the bass. I'm guessing that's the digital, and shoot me but I like it better.

Or just shoot me for a host of other reasons :grin:

RPhilbeck
May 31st, 2007, 12:40 AM
Richard,
Thanks for posting this. Very productive. It is a little difficult to get into the listening zone when it is just a short snippet, but my question is...after working with the same tune on both formats do you feel the difference justifies the cost? We are after all comparing an $800 dollar PT LE system to a $200,000+ dollar console. I don't get the impression that you're so taken by the console that it is a must have. Can you expand on your impressions a bit? It would be much appreciated. I am considering a similar experiment with an API.

archtop
May 31st, 2007, 02:57 AM
It is an interesting experiment.

The client wants to continue mixing there.
He thinks they sound better.

He also thinks of the 4 or 5 we did there in 6 hours, two are keepers.

But I think the real reason analog was prefered, and why we
are booking more time is; it is very enjoyable to mix the way mixing was meant to be mixed. With your ears and fingers.

With good gear.

http://www.electrokitty.com/



I figure it about time I give a little plug to the sweet joint.

robmacki
May 31st, 2007, 05:04 AM
Great thread!
Probably not fair to comment after the cat or should i say kitty is out of the bag.

On first listen I thought A was the analog mix because it sounded warmer and B has a very bright hat. But after listening over and over I began to lean toward mix B. The drums just had more thwack and punch.

Obviously you had great gear to mix through but I also wonder, because the mixes to me have almost two different interpretations, if the room has just as much to do with it as the gear.