First output from the new studio

[Watershed]

Hey guys.

This young local punk group just recorded this track in our new studio. Can't do anything about the performance, so no need to critique that, but I'd like any pointers on the mix.
I haven't spent a heap of time on the mix as they only had a limited budget, but for myself I'd like to learn more.

Thanks for listening.

700 Daze (http://brian.pinneo.us/watershed/selladore/700%20Daze%20Nov%2021.mp3)

[MudCat]

Having heard the tracks you originally had, Mark, I think you did an excellent job with the mix. From a production viewpoint, given it's punkish genre, I think the guitar(s) should be much 'meaner', sound-wise.....as in, at the very least, more distortion.....that would offset the 'almost too clean' overall feel just about right, I think. Put some 'mean' in it.

But good job, imo.


-mudcat

[Mixerman]

The vocals are too loud in every section except the bridge. I'd lose the kik drum in the bridge. Just mute the fucker. And if it bleeds throught the overheads, so be it. But it's awful like that.

Maybe more guitar after you bring the vocals down.

I love loud vocals, but this is what I refer to as a "Barney Mix." As in the big purple dinosaur. All vox, no track.

The drums are too focused for my tastes. Sounds like a lot of close mic, and not a lot of room perspective. A room mic does not necessarily mean big. But the last thing you want with a, shall we say, suspect drummer, is to be able to hear every kik drum as opposed to feeling it.

Okay, so start by bringing the vocals down.

Mixerman

[Watershed]

Sweet! This is the stuff I need.

You da man! (Well... obviously LOL).

Don't think there's much I can do with the drums in that regard. Only got a poor little Digi002R with a shitbox Mindprint s/pdif unit, so only 10 in at once. So drums with bass and guide vocal leaves no channels for room mics unfortunately.
I can hear where you're coming from though. I guess I can put some bottom end back in the OH and see what that gives me. Just don't really want the cymbals any bigger??

Will make some changes and post a remix.

Thanks.

[Mixerman]

Put a pair of speakers (something that can take some volume) in your live room. Buss a drum mix out to said speakers. Put up 2 condenser mics (or one stereo). Listen to the return of those mics in your control room. Adjust the mix that you are sending to the speakers until the room is useable (how much cymbal you pump into them is probably the most critical decision). Print it. Mix with it.

I set the speakers where the drummer sits, not too far apart but facing angled away from each other. The distance of your room mics is dependant on the room and how much reflection you want. Move mics and listen to find the optimum placement. If you put the speakers on the floor, the low end will travel along the floor, so if one of the mics is closer to the floor, it will pick up more low end. DO not worry about symmetry in your placement. Only concern yourself with making kick ass sounding drums.

Mixerman

[Senap]

Listen to Mixie.

If you don't have a good live-room and a decent PA, here's another trick that can make the drums sound less closed miced.

Solo the snare top, snare bottom, toms and kick channels and bounce them to a new stereo file. No OH, room mics and hi-hats. Add this stereo file to the excisting drum tracks.

Download this free little VST/AU gem (if your software of choice allows it):

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/resources/lmc1plugin.html

Smack the the stereo-file flatter than Holland with the LMC1 and blend to taste. Gritty, dirty and roomy.

I've used this trick to great effect on my latest mixes.

[Watershed]

Oh I'm listening, don't worry. That's why I'm here.

We have a very good sounding live room, and an excellent PA system, so this can be done no probs.

I'll have some fun with all this on the weekend.

Thanks

[Carlo]

Mixerman's advice is th' shit!! That way of poppin' yer drums is gonna get a workout around here.

Totally agree with the lead voc being way out front too much! The gang-vocals should tell ya that balance...they are many, and they sound like many, but the lead is just as loud!

Fix that, bottom-up the drums, and ya got a deal!!:Wink:

[Watershed]

OK, here's a new version.
Lead vocal down. Guitars up a hair. Added a squished drum track.
Drums still need work, but I think I've added a bit of thickness to them.
Will try the room drum recording trick on the weekend if I get a chance.
Definately an improvement, and the band are stoked with the result.
Much thanks for the help.

700 Daze adjusted (http://pinneo.us/watershed/selladore/700%20Daze.mp3)

[Senap]

Much better. :Thumbsup:

I still think that the vocals are a tad too loud.

Is the bass DI only? It's a bit too clean and poppy for my taste.

If it is, maybe copy the DI channel and run the copy through some kind of amp-sim with a little dirt. That would make it a little more edgy and happening.

[Mixerman]

Hey, you removed the original mix. Need to hear that...

Mixerman

[Watershed]

Ah sorry, it's back now.

[stevep]

OK, here's a new version.
Lead vocal down. Guitars up a hair. Added a squished drum track.
Drums still need work, but I think I've added a bit of thickness to them.
Will try the room drum recording trick on the weekend if I get a chance.
Definately an improvement, and the band are stoked with the result.
Much thanks for the help.

700 Daze adjusted (http://pinneo.us/watershed/selladore/700%20Daze.mp3)

Better :Thumbsup: to me its just the back vocals that could come down





steve

[omikl]

How's about putting a bit more dirt on the guitar part? Re-amp it through the cruddiest distortion pedal you have and then double that with te original to taste maybe?

Just a thought from a hack guitar player.

[Mixerman]

OK, here's a new version.
Lead vocal down. Guitars up a hair. Added a squished drum track.
Drums still need work, but I think I've added a bit of thickness to them.
Will try the room drum recording trick on the weekend if I get a chance.
Definately an improvement, and the band are stoked with the result.
Much thanks for the help.

700 Daze adjusted (http://pinneo.us/watershed/selladore/700%20Daze.mp3)

I like the first mix better. Go back to the first mix, and bring up the guitars a bit.

I have to say, it's very difficult giving mix suggestions over the internet, because you've come back with some changes, but there are now more problems than there were before. At least with the vocal loud like that, it sounded like a 1982 Indie record. But because you've made more than one change, and because any small change can affect 5 other things in a mix, I can't pinpoint which change fucked things up for me.

You say you brought the guitars up inthis mix, but they are surely quieter in relation to the drums, which probably has something to do with the thickening you're talking about. Currently, the vocal in the second mix is too low, and the bgs are too hot. I much preferred the balance between the lead vocal and the bgs in the first mix. I feel as if you've only brought down the lead vocal here. Regardless, you brought it down too much, when considered with all the other changes.

Go back to the first mix. Kill the kick drum in the Bridge (which is much better BTW). And bring up the guitars somewhere between 1db and 2db. Hard for me to tell how much you can get away with in headphones. And I think the drums are appropriate in the first mix.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[Watershed]

Ahh, now I was pretty much expecting this. The more I listen to it, the less I'm happy with it myself.
I have to admit I've fallen into the bad trap of listening to too many advisors at once and making tweaks all over the place, and it's just gotten messy. I also committed the crime of not saving different versions of the mix as I went along.

What I'm going to do is sit down with it and start afresh, but keeping in mind what I've been told so far. I'll post the reslutls of that in a few days.

I appreciate your patience. :Redface:

[Mixerman]

I appreciate your patience. :Redface:

Have those changes on my desk by morning.

Mixerman

[Watershed]

OK, this has taken a while.
Had the mother of all colds which fucked with my ears bigtime.
Still not back to normal, but here's a rework.

700 Days Remix (http://pinneo.us/watershed/selladore/700%20Daze%20Dec%2014.mp3)

Thanks

WS

[Sketchy McNads]

OK, this has taken a while.
Had the mother of all colds which fucked with my ears bigtime.
Still not back to normal, but here's a rework.

700 Days Remix (http://pinneo.us/watershed/selladore/700%20Daze%20Dec%2014.mp3)

Thanks

WS

Given that a lot of people, with better ears have already said their piece........

I'm not sure a 'better' mix is helping this track. I don't think they (the band) are tight enough to do the whole power-pop-punk thing.

I do think they have some energy going.

If it were my track, I think I'd reverse the changes try to make it sound as 'garage' as possible...muddy lows, somewhat buried vocals, less separate between the instruments. Though I'm not sure the band had that in mind when they came to you.

...but if you are trying to make it more 'polished', there is click in the final fade out...:grin:

Sketchy.

P.S. How close are the bushfires?

[Watershed]

Yeah I know about the "click". But not bothered about it for the purpose of this exercise.


The fires are about 2.5 hours drive north. Close enough that we get covered in smoke when there's a northerly blowing.
I'm attaching a photo taken yesterday arvo in Bairnsdale, the closest major town to the fires nearest to us.

[seagate]

Damn, that photo looks scary...

And I thought Melbourne copped it bad on days without wind.

sea

[blackieC]

Fucking colds, the bane of our existance.


FWIW, I am a fucking hack without equal and listened to that last mix on crappy lappy speakers, so take this with a fucking HUGE grain of salt.

I would suggest creating a stem of your vocal tracks and slamming the shit out of them through bus compression. The "whoa-ohs" should support the main vocal, not override it.

Listening back to it again...

The BV's need thier own stem or bus stomp.

I am an old punk hack from way back. I really do like the song, which is why I hope you can caress a little more finesse from it.

Shit, that rhymes doesn't it?


Total fucking accident.


More gain on the guitars? I think not. Dirt does not equal balls.



FWIW, forrest fires can be mighty fucking entertaining, provided you are on the leeward side of a sizable river.


Best to you other side of the world folks.

[lebouche]

I know nothing but I noticed that the drums fade a bit drastically after the intro soon as the vox n gits kick in.
Track sounds good though..
:Thumbsup: