Ok... This is it....

[aframe9999]

First post here at the womb. By my recent lurking, it seems that this is the place where I'm gonna get some REAL feedback on what we're doing with some tunes. Mutual-Admiration societies are nice, but....

Please give a listen, and tell me what you think... good, bad, songwriting, arrangement, performance, engineering, whatever hits you. I don't know you and you don't know me, so lay it on me... you ain't gonna hurt my feelings.

I'm no expert, and if you knew where and what i was recording this with you'd probably throw me out of here. But I intend to get better and will be lookin to you fine folks to help be get there....

Ok...So this is it:

http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/viewtrack.php?trackid=50683

Let the games begin....

AF

[jimmy v]

I don't know you and you don't know me
ARE you sure?I think you have kids here,no?

[aframe9999]

something about that face rings a bell..... :Razz:

[Carlo]

Nothin' like a chick who can sing...but man, a hell of alot of words in this song...mix is crisp, clear, and again, the vocalist is great, with a personality, but again, a hell of alot of words!:very happy: :Thumbsup:

[st robert]

hi!

i felt no inspiration in the song.

it reminded me of a children's song in it's don't-do-anything-offensive-or-remotely-interesting-during-the-song-because-
we-don't-want-to-upset-the-kids-since-they-just-had-5-gallons-of-koolaid-and-three-bags-of-skittles-
and-might-go-out-to-the-yard-and-push-the-ford-off-its-blocks-in-a-fit-of-rage-and-hurt-poor-billy-
who's-a-under-thar-fixin'-the-starter vibe.

if that makes any sense.

i dunno, it just bored me shitless.

have the whole band trade underwear and take the song again.

rob

[emtou2u]

i'm not in the habit of floggin' anyone - yet this song has so much potential. to me it feels like your vocalist is going to bat with a straight jacket on - no matter how amazing she is - she's being held back either by the style, the volume of lyrics or the tempo....cut her free!!!!

imvvho - it seems like the song would have more 'soul' if she had a bit more time (just a couple measures) to rip some of words out. one can tell that she could rip the hell out of a good blues number and this is dancing in the country/blues/fun genre.

i think in this case a little less can be a lot more.


love the harp

love the harmonica

[Mixerman]

First post here at the womb. By my recent lurking, it seems that this is the place where I'm gonna get some REAL feedback on what we're doing with some tunes. Mutual-Admiration societies are nice, but....

Please give a listen, and tell me what you think... good, bad, songwriting, arrangement, performance, engineering, whatever hits you. I don't know you and you don't know me, so lay it on me... you ain't gonna hurt my feelings.

I'm no expert, and if you knew where and what i was recording this with you'd probably throw me out of here. But I intend to get better and will be lookin to you fine folks to help be get there....

Ok...So this is it:

http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/viewtrack.php?trackid=50683

Let the games begin....

AF

Okay. For starters, I don't see what she "means," but maybe I'm just dense here. And I get the line "I'm thankful for you" but how does she know he's thankful for her in the next line, "You're thankful for me"? Seems a bit presumptuous, particularly if the premise is she's trying to teach him something.

I like the singers voice a lot, and I'd say she has the potential for a kick ass delivery, but there are problems that she must overcome first. For starters, her phrasing is too stilted. Yes, you could make the argument that in this song it should be stilted and regimented. And it's a fair argument. But I buy that argument far more in the chorus than in the verse. In the verse she takes the roll of storyteller, so in my opinion she needs to phrase in a more musically conversational manner.

That said, there is something inherently Irish about the verses to me. The singer uses the word "trolley" but that's not why I make this comment. It's the melody that makes me feel this way. I would accentuate this by way of a Mandolin (Irish style, not Italian please), and possibly a fiddle (Irish style not West Virginian), and I'd consider using these parts in favor of the extra electric guitar. I'm not sure if anyone else is going to hear this "Irish" flavor on this track, but if you start mucking around with mando and fiddle on the track, you soon will.

Now to the chorus. I don't buy it. I mean, I feel like your singer is selling the verse and "phoning in" the chorus. She needs to sell that chorus. And it's not an easy sell because the melodic rhythm is so regimented (which I like about the chorus). And I'm certain the singer is at a loss on how to sing that chorus, but she needs to figure something out, because as it stands now, it's boring. And once she figures out how to sing it, I think you need to give her some background vocal support. This section calls for it.

The arrangement in general is pleasant, I suppose, but it doesn't go anywhere. Arrangements and songs must push the listener forward. You need to go somewhere with it, otherwise it lays there like a flacid penis. Which might be the issue with your singer. She might feel constrained by a track with no dynamics. It is imperative that you create a bed that inspires the singer. I'm not sure you have that here.

Lastly, all I'll say about the mix is it's insanely bright to my ears. Sounds like loads of high end has been boosted in this mix, particularly on the drums.

Now, I would actually like to apologize for ruthlessly picking your song and production apart in this manner. But frankly, if I didn't think it would actually help you, and if I didn't think you all actually had potential, I wouldn't have bothered. There is plenty of good in this work. Just keep writing and recording.

Mixerman

[aframe9999]

Wow.... Thanks gang. This is exactly the kind of great info we're looking for. We appreciate you taking the time to really listen and then write down your thoughts. Awesome!

Just a quick background, we're writing and recording everything at home. I write and play all the instruments (except harp in this particular case) and Julie writes/sings the lyics. We record everything with no external front end whatsoever on a 16 track 16 bit StandAlone that's about 4 years old . I mix and 'master' (term used loosley) right on the box.

We're just writing and recording the best way we know how, with very little experience in either category. So, each time we finish a new song, it seems to be just a smidge better than the last. So with excellent critiques like the ones here, it makes the challenge of creating something better, that much easier...

So.......THANKS!!!!

Andy

[J.G.]

i'm not in the habit of floggin' anyone - yet this song has so much potential. to me it feels like your vocalist is going to bat with a straight jacket on - no matter how amazing she is - she's being held back either by the style, the volume of lyrics or the tempo....cut her free!!!!

imvvho - it seems like the song would have more 'soul' if she had a bit more time (just a couple measures) to rip some of words out. one can tell that she could rip the hell out of a good blues number and this is dancing in the country/blues/fun genre.

i think in this case a little less can be a lot more.


love the harp

love the harmonica

Ditto from moi. :)

Some held notes and soullllllllllllll would be welcomed by my ears, and my spine.

Perhaps a slower tempo, just a smidge would give her some room? And in the slower groove, some more groooooove in the rhythm section. As it stands, it's a lil 'white' for my personal tastes.

And as stated, some word-ectomies here 'n there would surely help out the ingestion for the listener. :Wink: Aswell as the already suggested harms in the chorus.

: J

[mousdrvr]

Aframe,

I like this a lot bro. I have 3 suggestions.

1) Get "up all night" by The Waifs and give that a listen

2) Get "All Over The Place" by The Bangles and give that a listen
I promise you this will let you know exactly what to do on the chorus.

3) She sounds like she's reading this performance, reading it like a stone pro but still reading it. As as been said, there are a lot of words but I don't think that has to be a problem. Stuff like this lives or dies by how comfortably the singer sounds like She is articulating the rhythm. There is very frequently a shift that happens when a singer gets fully off the page. They'll start to articulate the consonants just very slightly ahead of where the notes are or would be written. This means that the vowels no longer sound ever so slightly late and it can make a big difference. I've never heard anyone mention this up here, but there is a world in which this is a very common correction.

-mous

[Mixerman]

I'd just like to point out that Elvis Costello crams a lot of words in a song as well. That falls under style and artistic merit. This in and of itself does not make a song broken.

If the listener is thinking that there are too many words, then the words likely have no meaning to the listener and/or they are being delivered in a way that is somehow laborious for the listener.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[aframe9999]

Thanks Gents.....

Take a song that people are familiar with, say

REM - End of the World As we Know it

or

Billy Joel - We Didn't Start the Fire

or maybe lesser known

Jason Mraz - Curbside Prophet.

How would you specifically describe how/why these 'wordy' songs work so well? Maybe specific examples? or some description that will make the light go off in my head?.....

[mousdrvr]

"We Didn't Start The Fire"

Try this. Start a beat with you hand. Tap your thigh or your chair, whatever you like. Be sure to pull your hand pretty far away on the up beat. Now chant "We Didn't Start The Fire" over and over till you catch the groove of Billy's articulation. Now get that on auto pilot and when you do look at you hand as it's coming down. When the articulation feels correct notice where your hand is on the "wuh" of "we" and where it is on the "eee' of "we" .


-mous