Scared little guy, pls be gentle...

[seagate]

Hey all,
never had the nerve to post anything for critique over at the other place, so here it goes...

Little Princess (http://www.msc.id.au/private/ccount/click.php?id=49)

I wrote the music, played all the instruments, the lyrics and vocals where done via email by a chick I met online, but have not met face to face yet...

It's gotten to the point of where I'm not getting any valuable feedback from the people I play it to. Some honest constructive critism would be nice so I can improve my skills...

Keep in mind, I do this for a hobby not for a living.

Thanks and be gentle with me please...

seagate

:Redface:

[Carlo]

Works for me.:Thumbsup:

I'm not that crazy about synths...would love to hear some horns blowin' a few of those backing blasts!

Your vocalist has a great sounding voice! No pitch problems, but she could push more for my tastes!

:Thumbsup: :Thumbsup:

[J.G.]

I didn't/couldn't make it through to the end. :Confused:

I could only take so much of that, "I--eeeeyaieee-yaieee-yaIIII", stuff, and the vocals didn't quite deliver, nor do I like the timbre of the singer, plus there were some micro-pitch-issues--which might have been related to the plugged nose/possible cold that it sounds like she had at time of tracking...

The tune itself, along with the instrumentation choices just didn't grab me; not my cup o' genre-tea, I suppose.

Now it's bedtime in France...

[seagate]

I'm not that crazy about synths...would love to hear some horns blowin' a few of those backing blasts!


Instead of the synth on the left? I can't quite picture what you mean, any reference tracks I could listen to of the top of your head?

Thanks for listening...

:)

[seagate]

The tune itself, along with the instrumentation choices just didn't grab me; not my cup o' genre-tea, I suppose.

Thanks for your thoughts!

From memory she was on the tail end of a cold, but I got impatient and wanted the tracks. Re-tracking them is a possability down the line.

Seeing that I can't fix the tune itself (other than deleting it) :), what would you do different in terms of instrumentation to make it more appealing to your taste?

:)

[emtou2u]

hi seagate -

i'm not sure if what Carlo means by push is more emotion - but as the god (mixerman) says, "music is about emotion" and i just don't feel it. i don't believe her.

it also doesn't seem like the lyrics to instrumentation is the best match. the "i ee i ee i" seems to be a short cut to finding better "fitting" lyrics...but even the emotion i get from portions of the instrumentation doesn't match (or compliment) the words being sung. also - could she say "little princess" a few more times? :lol: just jokin'. trying to add some humor!

i also find the drums a bit obvious & distracting.

there is no doubt that you are talented and kudos for doing most all of this by yourself...as a lot of guys here would say, "walk away from it and come back after a month or so" i think you'll be able to self-correct the things we all are hearing.

thanks so much for sharing!

[seagate]

i'm not sure if what Carlo means by push is more emotion - but as the god (mixerman) says, "music is about emotion" and i just don't feel it. i don't believe her.

Hopefully we will get a better vocal track with more emotion/push when she hasn't got a cold...

...but even the emotion i get from portions of the instrumentation doesn't match (or compliment) the words being sung. also - could she say "little princess" a few more times? :lol: just jokin'. trying to add some humor!

Hmm, that's a hard one, not being a singer (couldn't & shouldn't sing to save my life) I'm not sure how to fix that. Obviously the music was there first with her writing the lyrics and vocals to it... Maybe I need to get someone else (like I know so many singers...) to start from scratch or turn it into yet another instrumental.

i also find the drums a bit obvious & distracting.


Would pulling them down in the mix and cutting some of the higher freqs fix that for you?

there is no doubt that you are talented and kudos for doing most all of this by yourself...as a lot of guys here would say, "walk away from it and come back after a month or so" i think you'll be able to self-correct the things we all are hearing.

Thanks for the kudos, appreciate it. Not sure I can do anything with the vox I got even after some time off.

Perhaps someone here would like to have a go at them if I provide the backing track...

thanks so much for sharing!


I should be the one thanking you...

:Wink:

[Mixerman]

Hey all,
never had the nerve to post anything for critique over at the other place, so here it goes...

Little Princess (http://www.msc.id.au/private/ccount/click.php?id=49)

I wrote the music, played all the instruments, the lyrics and vocals where done via email by a chick I met online, but have not met face to face yet...

It's gotten to the point of where I'm not getting any valuable feedback from the people I play it to. Some honest constructive critism would be nice so I can improve my skills...

Keep in mind, I do this for a hobby not for a living.

Thanks and be gentle with me please...

seagate

:Redface:

You made a track, wrote the song, arranged it, played it, recorded it, then sent it off to a person with whom you have no allegience or working relationship, who returned it complete with a vocal and a lyric.

What do you think about it?

Mixerman

[st robert]

hi there!

baby got weak technique.

there's nothing inherently wrong with the song, it's just that you put the fate of the entire song in the incapable hands of a weak lyricist and worse singer. the good news is that you only have to fire one person to fix the two problems.

too much rides on the vox because the rest of the track kind of sits there and plows along neither dynamically adding nor taking anything away. it's a push. so all ya hear is the vox. owww.

guits have no fire in them, the track drums are too compressed, it's all quantized, lacks life, sounds like a stock gm soundset demo on a early 90's sound canvas or something.

proud of ya for doing it all yerself, but take your musicality and imagination and merge them. shake up the arrangement. change the look you give the listener as the song wears on. be each individual instrument mentally and think out all the parts as a human would, not as a sequencer/arranger/workstation makes you think it should. be the bass player. don't shower for three days and be him. be the drummer. beat your girlfriend up a bit and then program a kick/snare/hat pattern that he would play. be the keyboard player. burn the fuck out of your credit cards on the latest roland, don't have sex (with another person) for eighteen months and lay some geeky synth madness down.
get the idea?

maybe someone wants to blow over this. but it'd be more fun to sing over if the track was kickin'.

'tis the unfortunate nature of long distance collaboration: too much time alone to overthink shit and make mistakes.

rob

[seagate]

You made a track, wrote the song, arranged it, played it, recorded it, then sent it off to a person with whom you have no allegience or working relationship, who returned it complete with a vocal and a lyric.

What do you think about it?

Mixerman

:icon_eek:
I was prepared for all sorts of comments from you, but you have me stumped!!!

OK, here goes...

For what it's worth, whilst she wrote the lyrics and recorded the vox, I received a dry track, so it's my fault if it's wrong in the mix. :Cry:

As for what I think, I of course love the track, the instrumentation is for once what I heard in my head, playing is reasonably tight and the mix sounds good on my crappy equipment. As for the vox, as the writer and player on this track I propably don't fixate too much on the vocals, a good reason not to be the engineer/producer on your own stuff. I'm just really greatful for her doing this for me (I have way too many instrumental tracks already), so it might be a case of not wanting to pick on it. But, at the same time I'm hearing the things everyone is making comments on...

Whilst I'm sure I will be able to get her to do another take and put more emotion into it, maybe even get rid of the i eyes, I might be stuck with it/her on this track...

I feel bad now, asking for critiques on somehting I really have no control over, then again I probably was expecting more technical comments on the mix and production rather than the focus on the vox...

But it's all good, I'm still :)

[seagate]

Ouch...
That's a lot of stuff to think about...

guits have no fire in them, the track drums are too compressed, it's all quantized, lacks life, sounds like a stock gm soundset demo on a early 90's sound canvas or something.

:icon_eek:
I actually thought timing on the bass and guitar parts was a little on the sloppy side...
I hear you on the drums, they are Drums On Demand loops, who have a rep of using too much compression, I might have to learn how to play them myself...

As for the guitars, I really don't know what to say nor do I know how to fix them other than setting my guitars on fire...
Is this an issue with my playing or how they sit in the mix?


:)

michael

[Mixerman]

:icon_eek:
I was prepared for all sorts of comments from you, but you have me stumped!!!

OK, here goes...

For what it's worth, whilst she wrote the lyrics and recorded the vox, I received a dry track, so it's my fault if it's wrong in the mix. :Cry:

As for what I think, I of course love the track, the instrumentation is for once what I heard in my head, playing is reasonably tight and the mix sounds good on my crappy equipment. As for the vox, as the writer and player on this track I propably don't fixate too much on the vocals, a good reason not to be the engineer/producer on your own stuff. I'm just really greatful for her doing this for me (I have way too many instrumental tracks already), so it might be a case of not wanting to pick on it. But, at the same time I'm hearing the things everyone is making comments on...

Whilst I'm sure I will be able to get her to do another take and put more emotion into it, maybe even get rid of the i eyes, I might be stuck with it/her on this track...

I feel bad now, asking for critiques on somehting I really have no control over, then again I probably was expecting more technical comments on the mix and production rather than the focus on the vox...

But it's all good, I'm still :)

I'm not asking you what you think of your work. You sent off something that you considered good. What do you think of what she sent back?

Do you find this new vocal, which was added on to your track after-the-fact, to be an improvement or a detriment?

Forget about control. Forget about the mix. Forget about being stuck with it (which you're not). Forget about whether you have too many instrumentals or not. Forget about the comments you've read here so far.

What do you think?

Did she improve the track?
Is the track better with or without the vocal?
Is it better that you expected or worse than you expected?
Do you like the lyric?
Is this a song that you would buy?

I'm asking you to be completely honest with yourself here. It doesn't matter to me how you answer (so long as you answer truthfully). Let go of all the irrellevant outside influences, listen to the song objectively and answer the question.

Mixerman

[seagate]

What do you think?

Did she improve the track?
Is the track better with or without the vocal?
Is it better that you expected or worse than you expected?
Do you like the lyric?
Is this a song that you would buy?



Well, I think as the track stands she has improved on it as it's a tad bland without her track. I like what she has done with the chorus and bridge, I'm a little cold on the verses, would have like more melody and less words. There are pitch issues, but I don't own any pitch correction software so I couldn't fix them.

As for what I expected, it's hard to say as I expected/wanted a completely different style so I'd have to say it's worse... :Sad:

I've never been one to analyse lyrics, so I haven't really done so with this either. Their ok I suppose, not a subject I would have anything to say about...

And no I wouldn't buy it as it is...


Can I stop now, I feel depressed...:Uh oh:

[J.G.]

Can I stop now, I feel depressed...

"Feeeeeeeeeeeelings---whoa-whoa-whao, FEEEEEEEEEELINGS..."

It's GOOD that you're feeling something. And realizing that you're not happy with the returned lyrics and melody and delivery is a lil piece of gold for you to see even better the light, (reflecting off of that nugget ; ), with.

I think that the more you hang around places like this, the better your odds of working with better writers and singers will get, & boom.

If there ain't no zing, there ain't no thing.

Now, you asked me about the intrumental choices that I might make to suit more my tastes. Well, it's kinda moot for me to address this, as it's not my tune, but since you asked, I'll say this, (after I relisten)...

That opening "late-70's-video-game-sound fx-esque" synth, I'd drop and use anything more organic.

The lil synth bits before she goes off with those soul-less, harmonized, "Heyyyyy's!", I'd let the guitars handle on their own.

Liking the Rhodes, (at least I think that's what I'm hearing on the softer sections there).

K--Scusi, but I GOTTA turn it off again, 'cause she just makes my ear-hairs bristle, and those lyrics are so damned negative 'n burnt-bitch--hearing her literally DOES make me wanna "GO AWAY".

It's time to walk the dowwwwwwwwwwwg,
before these French skies lean to SOG.
AGAIN.

peace 'n zenetworking vibes,

: J

[seagate]

Thanks J...

Should I upload the track without the vox so you guys can through listening in one go?

:)

[J.G.]

Heheh... :Razz: Might as well, seeing as how the odds are good you might be in the mind to put it in the hands of another singer/writer.

[st robert]

Thanks J...

Should I upload the track without the vox so you guys can through listening in one go?

:)

that would be cool. would it also be cool if something a bit twisted came back at you?

[J.G.]

that would be cool. would it also be cool if something a bit twisted came back at you?

And with that wee Q., the road-a getsa forrrrrrky... :)

; J

[Mixerman]

Well, I think as the track stands she has improved on it as it's a tad bland without her track. I like what she has done with the chorus and bridge, I'm a little cold on the verses, would have like more melody and less words. There are pitch issues, but I don't own any pitch correction software so I couldn't fix them.

As for what I expected, it's hard to say as I expected/wanted a completely different style so I'd have to say it's worse... :Sad:

I've never been one to analyse lyrics, so I haven't really done so with this either. Their ok I suppose, not a subject I would have anything to say about...

And no I wouldn't buy it as it is...


Can I stop now, I feel depressed...:Uh oh:

Nothing to feel depressed about. If it's not better, and if it's not something you would buy, then dump the vocals. Tell her you're not using the vocals. Thank her. Move on.

Then try again with someone else.

Mixerman

[dwoz]

I'd like to point out that there are a vast number of musicians/composers/songwriters that feel nothing but disgust and contempt for their own body of work. Many feel that work they've done in the past is "utterly unlistenable".

This could happen, in some part, because the individual has a mismatch between their creative vision, and their technical/craft ability. either their craft is not up to the task of rendering the vision, or their impeccable craft is employed in the service of pedestrian vision.

In either instance, the individual will be mired in a swamp of self-recrimination. Others may find the material to be absolutely fabulous, but it will never satisfy its creator.

Having said that, it is a necessary task for a creative person to rise above the "naive consumer" level of perception, and be able to look into the more subtle, higher granularity issues and interactions within the product. In doing so, its very much like a biblical "fall from grace". You lose the capability to "just plain enjoy" the music, but you develop the ability to sense and enjoy at a more esoteric level. Your appreciation comes at a much higher price, but the value of the goods goes way up.

This is the task/burden of the creative spirit. This is what you have to do. Develop the ability to love/hate your work. Develop a relentless self-appraisal. Use the hate. Love is nice to have, but Hate is more important than air.

dwoz

[Unfcknblvbl]

Use the hate. Love is nice to have, but Hate is more important than air.

dwoz

This will be someone's new sig. line...

:Twisted:

[st robert]

Having said that, it is a necessary task for a creative person to rise above the "naive consumer" level of perception, and be able to look into the more subtle, higher granularity issues and interactions within the product. In doing so, its very much like a biblical "fall from grace". You lose the capability to "just plain enjoy" the music, but you develop the ability to sense and enjoy at a more esoteric level. Your appreciation comes at a much higher price, but the value of the goods goes way up.

This is the task/burden of the creative spirit. This is what you have to do. Develop the ability to love/hate your work. Develop a relentless self-appraisal. Use the hate. Love is nice to have, but Hate is more important than air.

dwoz

this is so well said.

fucking genius.

thank you.

rob

[seagate]

this is so well said.

fucking genius.

thank you.

rob

+1

So, here is the track without the vox. I fiddled a little to try incorporate some of things said here...

Restart.mp3 (http://www.msc.id.au/private/ccount/click.php?id=50)

85bpm, if anyone needs a running sheet (don't do notation!), happy to provide it...


http://www.msc.id.au/private/tmp/couch.gif

[mousdrvr]

Yeah Dwoz that was very well put.

I don't think I agree with the hate part though. I used to think it was necessary but now I'm not so sure. I'm currently finding it more helpful to use Ravel's heuristic of Sincerity/Conscience, of which your post very much reminds me. It's absolutely true that hate WILL do the trick. But, at least for me it's a little bit like artistic chemo therapy, sure it might help kill the suck, but it's just plain hard on the body and I think it takes something with it that doesn't necessarily have to go.

This probably sounds a little "does not the dog poo also possess Buddha naure?" but I think sometimes there is a meanigful and healthy difference between judgment and discernment. That said maybe I have my head up my ass, as I too feel that 98% of everything I've done is utter shit, and I can't claim I'm exactly OK with that. I'm just wondering if the hate is required. Is there no other path to self honesty?


-mous

[dwoz]

85bpm, if anyone needs a running sheet (don't do notation!), happy to provide it...




oh, please!!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


you're swimming with sharks, don'cha know.


more coming....keep your skin on, there might be some interesting developments on this.


dwoz

[seagate]

oh, please!!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


you're swimming with sharks, don'cha know.


more coming....keep your skin on, there might be some interesting developments on this.


dwoz

Can't work our if your serious or just messing with me...

Guess that makes me a http://www.msc.id.au/private/tmp/dumbass.gif

Shutting up now and going back into the shallows so the sharks can't get to me...

[dwoz]

Yeah Dwoz that was very well put.

I don't think I agree with the hate part though. I used to think it was necessary but now I'm not so sure. I'm currently finding it more helpful to use Ravel's heuristic of Sincerity/Conscience, of which your post very much reminds me. It's absolutely true that hate WILL do the trick. But, at least for me it's a little bit like artistic chemo therapy, sure it might help kill the suck, but it's just plain hard on the body and I think it takes something with it that doesn't necessarily have to go.

This probably sounds a little "does not the dog poo also possess Buddha naure?" but I think sometimes there is a meanigful and healthy difference between judgment and discernment. That said maybe I have my head up my ass, as I too feel that 98% of everything I've done is utter shit, and I can't claim I'm exactly OK with that. I'm just wondering if the hate is required. Is there no other path to self honesty?


-mous



its a detached hate. Not a visceral hate, more like a sliver on the bottom of your foot.

I agree with you 100 percent. always the whore for sensationalism, I go for the money shot, when a simple lap dance will do.


Sincerity/conscience. Got a link? very much like to explore that. its related. very related, but I believe I ASSUME sincerity.

It can be truthfully said that humans are nothing more or less than shit-machines. In fact, I have spent the last 2 hours exploring EXACTLY EVERYTHING to do with human shit. Two hours of time with your head in a malfunctioning septic tank gives UNCANNY PERSPECTIVE about the "waste" side of human existence.

I daresay that there are some who's sum total contribution to the collective is fertilizer.

But, without fertilizer, what grows?

Happy to report, due to my "heroic" emergency plumbing efforts, thanksgiving dinner is saved, and a hygienic experience will be had by all.

dwoz

look for more, seagate.....

[dwoz]

Can't work our if your serious or just messing with me...

Not to worry, My friend. Its all about the LOVE.


swimming with sharks....by the 2nd verse, most cats around here have the form, progression, bridge and 2nd ending DOWN.

2nd listen to fill in the fiddly bits.

we're good.

dwoz

[seagate]

Not to worry, My friend. Its all about the LOVE.


swimming with sharks....by the 2nd verse, most cats around here have the form, progression, bridge and 2nd ending DOWN.

2nd listen to fill in the fiddly bits.

we're good.

dwoz

Obviously I've been hanging out with the wrong crowd... :very happy:

[Cosmic Pig]

First up Scared little dude, move in real close to the monitor... BOO! BLAGA-LAGA-LAGA! Okay we're done with that. Now stiffen that boner and step up.

Something you should know is none of these guys know what makes a song good, what they know and know well is how to get a message across. They understand focus and performance. I'm telling you this because their opinions aren't important, how you take the opinion is. If they say the song has no balls then the song has no balls, which it doesn't, what they just told you is how to fix it. Anyhoo... the point is don't be askeered, deal with it. When you bring a song in here for critique you'll get some good shit, but if you bring an ego in here for critique it'll get popped.

Anyways... on to the tune. Most things been covered already, so I'l just add to the pile of what sux. Snare. wtf. It's gay. Michael Jackson kiddy diddling gay. Run it through some distortion. Yeah the chick's vox are eek... but if you had her in front of you tracking you might be able to fix it. Not gonna happen I guess so dump them vox, unless that's all ya got. Better than nothing. She's okay, it's just she adds to the gayness. Wrong vehicle.

Song is way too long too.

Needs anger and agression. Especially in that guitar riff part in the chorus. Between the gay snare and the gay vox all you have to agress with is the guitar. And it just comes out gay in the face of all that gayness. Sounds like a neighborhood pub duo with an SR16 drum machine running guitars direct through a Zoom pedal. Wearing slacks. Wishing they could get the band together and go on the road like they did in the eighties but they have day jobs and kids now. Nowadays the only reason they even bother with the duo is so they can say "Ya I'm a player" around the water cooler in the vain hope of impressing that hot secretary enough to squeeze a handjob in at the christmas party. They reminisce about how great it was back in the day playing Cherry Pie through a real Marshall and doing scissor kicks when they weren't posing with their foot on the monitor so the chicks could see the bulge in their spandex... But I digress...

Now as for me, I"m a hack and a teesny bit obnoxious so ignore me. Shit for all I know you might be gay and like it all gay and think the gay song has just the right amount of gayness.... nothing wrong with that. Use my advice for what it's worth which is basically asshole practice.

Cos.

[seagate]

First up Scared little dude, move in real close to the monitor... BOO! BLAGA-LAGA-LAGA! Okay we're done with that. Now stiffen that boner and step up.

:icon_eek: Thanks for that I am awake now...

When you bring a song in here for critique you'll get some good shit, but if you bring an ego in here for critique it'll get popped.

I don't think I did, did I?

Anyways... on to the tune.

Thanks for the comments, taken on board, alhtough I'm very worried about your obsession with the word "gay"

And no, I'm not. :Coolio:

[mousdrvr]

I don't think I did, did I?


Not that my opinion counts for piss up in here, but NO you didn't. IMHO, you've shown nothing but class and character.

Take only what serves you bro.


-mous

[emtou2u]

hey seagate -
it's as simple as this:


"THE PAST DOES NOT EQUAL THE FUTURE"

wait...i'm putting my guru hat on...



ok...
good...it still fits...

yep, that's it.

"THE PAST DOES NOT EQUAL THE FUTURE" :Wink:

[seagate]

"THE PAST DOES NOT EQUAL THE FUTURE"

:Roll eyes:



----

Been noodling around with the verse, and have come up with a melody and some words, but it's all far too gay to upload... :lol:

[Carlo]

oh, please!!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


you're swimming with sharks, don'cha know.


more coming....keep your skin on, there might be some interesting developments on this.


dwoz

What you uttered, dwoz, is chapter verse in my Good Book...but mouse speaks the truth also, in the price your "body" pays.

As for me, I always paid more attention to the pain side, than the health side for my inspiration...but ya gotta be hard on yourself!



My oh my, but this IS a good one!

[otek]

Not gonna comment much on the singer (since we seem to be past that already), though I will say she sounds like one out of a few hundred young chicks I've recorded who has a background in the church choir - constantly flat, no power, going up high equals squeezing the vocal out of your nose. 'Nuff said.

As for the tune, It lacks a strong chorus, so you may want to rewrite - much of that naturally has to do with the lack of a strong melody.

As for the instrumentation, I think it could be made to work - the synths, bass and guitar create a sort of stylistic whole, kinda reminiscent of some late 70's - early 80's bands. It gets unnecessarily busy at times, but generally speaking it works.

The drums totally ruin that, for several reasons: first, they're playing all these completely unnecessary syncopations and fills which are totally at odds with the vibe. Second, the sound, particularly the snare, is totally wrong for the tune. I would go with a much simpler beat, a low-tuned, damped snare, and a much dryer sounding kit.

Another problem is the lack of instruments that subdivide the rhythm. With a relatively slow beat such as this, percussion or an acoustic guitar can work wonders. That provides a feeling of rhythmic coherence.

Finally, and I am saying this as a general tip as I am pretty sure the problem is rooted in your listening environment: There is a preponderance of low mids in your mix (above all, the guitars). Be sure to check and compare through other systems.


Cheers,

otek

[seagate]

Hi Otek,
thanks for the comments, lots to think about and lots to do now.

Started to play around with simplifying the drums and found my bass line now longer fits...:Confused: Vicious circle...
I might have to brush up on my non existent midi programming skills and redo the drums from scratch. Hopefully I can get something out my Wizoo Sample collection to work for this track. Don't hold your breath on getting another mix in a hurry as I'm really slow at programming drums (that's why I like loops:grin: )

Late 70's - early 80's, eh! Seems to be a pattern when I write on the guitar, mind you I really don't mind the era in terms of music, pretty happy with that!

Could you point out where it get's too busy for you? The bridge?

Another problem is the lack of instruments that subdivide the rhythm. With a relatively slow beat such as this, percussion or an acoustic guitar can work wonders. That provides a feeling of rhythmic coherence.

You mean adding percussion or ac gtr to lets say the chorus to set them apart? Sorry, I have to simplify stuff I don't understand fully. :Wink:

Thanks for the reminder on checking the mixes, I clearly failed that step this time...


Thanks again.

:Thumbsup:

[seagate]

The drums totally ruin that, for several reasons: first, they're playing all these completely unnecessary syncopations and fills which are totally at odds with the vibe. Second, the sound, particularly the snare, is totally wrong for the tune. I would go with a much simpler beat, a low-tuned, damped snare, and a much dryer sounding kit.

I just played around with the drums for the last couple of hours, trying a few simpler beats, and to be totally honest, that ruins it for me. I kinda like the off beat feel. I basically wrote the bass and guitar stuff to the beat, changing it to any else creates, to my ears, a non-coherent sonic mess. I would have to change the gtr and bass too much to make em fit.

How about I cut down on the fills (maybe just one or two a day, I can give them up anytime I want you know!) and maybe soften the snare a little by pulling down around 500k?
Btw, they are Apple Loops so I can't easily replace the snare.

I can take away some of the artifical "room" if it helps.

I discovered tonight that I have to retrack the bass as it's hissing it's little head off. :Mad:


sea

[Mixerman]

I think it's important to keep in mind that everyone has an opinion, and so long as something isn't finished, that opinion is premature.

For example, were you to come into my Womb while I'm mixing, and say to me "the hi-hat's too loud," my reply would be, "get out." I mean, that's like exclaiming to your hairstylist after she's only cut one side of your head, "The sides are uneven!"

Yeah. No fucking shit.

The purpose of my question "What do you think?" was to have Seagate admit to himself the obvious--the vocals don't make the track better. Granted it was like pulling teeth, but I get that. For some people it can be immensely difficult to be brutal about decisions involving one's own work. It takes practice. When you invest time and creative energy into something, throwing it out can be difficult at best. Then, of course, there are those creative people that throw out even the good stuff. So, finding a balance of brutality in self-evaluation can be nothing short of challenging. But, if you are to have any kind of creative efficiency whatsoever, that balance must be achieved

Efficiency is the name of the game here. The creative process by it's very nature is inefficient and should be. But everything is relative. There is still an optimum efficiency, one that clearly balances the positive events that come from being inefficient with the positive events that come from being efficient. In other words, if you accomplish nothing, that is the maximum of creative inefficiency. If you create massive amounts of crap, that is the maximum of creative efficiency. If you create a work, which is wholly perfect, one that could be viewed as great even hundreds of years beyond your lifetime, and one that was created in a reasonable period of time, that would be the supreme balance of creative efficiency.

Evaluating where any particular work falls in this spectrum is impossible to tell, even after the fact, because judging a creative work is subjective, and determining whether the "creator" could have done better would require clairvoyance. So we can only really avoid the extremes while striving to fall somewhere, anywhere, in the middle of the creative efficiency curve.

If Seagate had spent the next few months making changes to a track with a vocal, melody, and lyric, which he would eventually discard, that would be a supreme example of creative inefficiency.

Back to my main point of this article:

Now that Seagate has admitted to himself (albeit in public confessional style) that the vocal does not make this track better, he is left with an unfinished track. From my perspective, any and all suggestions on how to improve an unfinished track are premature. Either Seagate is going to write some lyrics and a melody or he will find another person that will. Regardless, this process should, and will, cause changes to the track, because an arrangement decision that made sense before melodic and lyrical additions, will be illuminated as unworkable during the creation of the actual song. You see, the lyric and the melody are the song. Aside from the actual Sound Recording, the melody and lyric are the only parts of the song that can be protected by copyright.

At the moment, this track should be viewed as merely a "working bed." My only suggestion on this working bed would be to avoid thinking of it as a "concrete bed." It is important to understand that the harmonic and arrangement structures that currently exist must remain malleable in regards to the lyric and melody. The track and the arrangement are subservient to the song, (the melody and the lyric). Not the other way around.

Therefore, any and all suggestions on what to do with the bed, should be duly noted, but left unchanged until the lyricist, singer, and melody writer, have had a chance to evaluate the pitfalls of the current form and arrangement decisions in relation to the creation of the actual song. Otherwise, Seagate is going to make changes that will merely have to change again, and that truly is inefficient.

Mixerman

[magicchord]

Egad! Mixerman has written something I totally agree with!
And he didn't use the word "fuck" once...
I think this new forum has brought out the best in this guy.

[Mixerman]

Egad! Mixerman has written something I totally agree with!

Perhaps I should retire from the internet while on a high note.

And he didn't use the word "fuck" once...
I think this new forum has brought out the best in this guy. Yes, well I was still putting the finishing touches on my post when you wrote this. Look again.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[seagate]

Therefore, any and all suggestions on what to do with the bed, should be duly noted, but left unchanged until the lyricist, singer, and melody writer, have had a chance to evaluate the pitfalls of the current form and arrangement decisions in relation to the creation of the actual song. Otherwise, Seagate is going to make changes that will merely have to change again, and that truly is inefficient.

That makes a lot of sense... :)
I might also strip it right back and attempt to write the lyrics/vocals to that...

Either way, I'm stepping away from it for a bit and get back to it later when I got the i eyes out of my noggin.

Thanks for the help everyone, shall be back.


Seagate

[magicchord]

...Yes, well I was still putting the finishing touches on my post when you wrote this. Look again...


Oh, well, fuck it then.
Still right on the money.

[Mixerman]

Oh, well, fuck it then.


Ah, that's the spirit! Rep point for you!

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[mixervixen]

Awesome thread!

I have nothing to add in terms of song critique, but I just want to say how great it is to see the comments which remind me so much of the original "Zen and the art of ...." theme which MM started out with back at the RecPit. If this is a trend, perhaps owing to the new site and freedoms therein, then I am all for it.

Good luck to you, Seagate, you are off to a great start!

[bunnerabb]

Dude.

What is that snare sound?

I have to know what that is.

[seagate]

Dude.

What is that snare sound?

I have to know what that is.

It's from Drums on Demand Volume 7

[Smileyblue]

Hi there Scared Little Guy,

I agree with the majority of what has been said here already, though I am going to add a few things.

1. Kudos for giving it a go and having the balls to post it. For some people this stuff comes naturally and for some of us it does not, so when you put your best into something you really become nervous about what others think. Mixerman is right. It is about what you think.

It is easy to get caught up in the excitement of being so grateful that someone wrote lyric and sung on your song, that you tend to gloss over and not scrutinise what they actually did.

I agree, you can do much better in finding a lyricist and singer for this track.

2. Get rid of the electronic synth parts. It dates the music. If you are going to write a great composition it has to be able to stand the test of time. Right now I am hearing Pointer Sisters with the Synth. How about a more organic sounding piano?Would that work for your vision?

3. My pet hate is a Snare Drum that sounds like a wooden spoon on a cardboard box or plastic Icecream Container.

You mentioned that you don't play drums, so this is about using what you got, which is samples. Okay, so really it's just a matter of going through and auditioning some of the different sample choices, you want a Snare that is gonna sing, something with Tone that is going to pick the mix up and make it fly.......

4. The same thing with the kick drum, find a really nice sounding kick drum. When you are building a house, you need a great foundation. You can't build your house on sand otherwise it will get washed away with the first storm, make that house strong brother!!! I would bring the kick up slightly in the mix...but hey what do I know, Im not an engineer just a listener.

5. WHERE IS THE EXCITEMENT? It sounds like you are going through the motions and concentrating too hard on what your playing. Also there is a lack of strong melody, you may want to rewrite some parts, probably the chorus, to create this excitement.

"It don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing" Dynamics is what I am talking about. Get excited about what your playing, GROOVE IT...Pick some points of excitement in the song and excentuate it.......make me wanna listen through to the end....SPEAK TO ME...... Tell me a story with your music.

6. I love the clean guitars, but you need more oomph....more power..... The distorted guitars need more aggression and (as Dwoz pointed out..HATE!!!) Take me on a journey.

7.Set up your recording space, with vibe.......when you are surrounded by it you will FEEL it.

8. The song is way too long. Considering the average adults attention span is only 10 minutes, you are taking up half of it (5:05 minutes). Now granted, you can get away with it if the song is exciting, intriguing and unusual, but the first 5 seconds are the most important.

This is the portion where your average joe decides whether they will be bothered listening further. Try making the intro intriguing and edit the song down to between 3 and 4 minutes.

I believe there was another poster here who asked if you wouldnt mind getting it back with a bit of a twist. Maybe consider his offer and see what he comes up with.

Above all, don't get depressed. You need to believe in your abilities and just refine them. This only comes from practise and the odd word of advice. I think you will find loads of encouragement here.:D

[seagate]

Above all, don't get depressed. You need to believe in your abilities and just refine them. This only comes from practise and the odd word of advice. I think you will find loads of encouragement here.:D

Hi Smileyblue,
thanks for the comments and the encouragement.

Spent the weekend copying the drums to midi, so now I have control over the samples... :)

You have a point with the guitars, I end up concentrating too much to get a clean take, by that time feeling goes out the window, might have to start not being so picky.

As a side note, doesn't anyone use synths anymore??? :Sad:

seagate

[Brendo]

I haven't heard this yet but you might be able to get away with just putting MIDI triggered kick and snares under your loops...

[seagate]

I haven't heard this yet but you might be able to get away with just putting MIDI triggered kick and snares under your loops...

And cut the kick and snare from the loops? (sounded very choppy when I tried that last)

In hindsight, I should have bought the REX version... :Cry:

[Brendo]

Nah, just leave them in - use samples to beef them up a bit maybe? Hard to tell without having heard it.

[st robert]

Hi Smileyblue,
thanks for the comments and the encouragement.



all right, before you guys start blowing each other let's step back and take a minute to look at things realistically:

the song needs a complete workover from the ground up and needs a shot of emotion in its ass. badly.

some people here may have had a similar situation to mine where the hard drive crashes and you forgot to save your sequence work, right? it sucks, but you gotta do the whole fucking thing over because the computer, your friend, be it in a keyboard workstation or a desktop, failed you. every time this has happened to me, though, the resulting track redo came out much better, cleaner, sweeter, without fail. it doesn't work this way as much with vocals or other emotion driven live parts where you may lose the great take, but with sequencing, it's all a bit left-brained and sterile, more often than not. the redoing of the parts gives you time to scrutinize these things you replay because you already know them and secretly hate some of them subconsciously.

because you know they suck.

the retake gives you the chance to cement in the good and fix the bad. in your case, your hard drive didn't fail, but the equivalent destruction of your song happened just the same.

you posted it here and we beat the shit out of it, took its wallet, and dumped it in the river.

at no charge!

you're welcome.

now go rip it down and do it again.

love,

rob

p.s. i got yer pm and will try to help...

[st robert]

all right, before you guys start blowing each other


well, err.

it would appear that smileyblue is female.

so substitute some other mutually arousing action...

or something...

this is awkward.

...sorry..


rob

[seagate]

well, err.

it would appear that smileyblue is female.

so substitute some other mutually arousing action...

or something...

this is awkward.


:lol:

I don't mind!!!

[Brendo]

She's also the SlipperWife!

Uh. I couldn't listen thru the vocal version. Dead horse + Baseball bat.

There's one riff in there that totally reminds me of my chorus riff in Team Synergy's song from last year's CaPE project. If you listen to it, you'll pick it straight away. You could almost go in that direction with this... depending on the lyric and how it goes.

[seagate]

She's also the SlipperWife!

:lol: Lucky it didn't come from my keyboard then...

Uh. I couldn't listen thru the vocal version. Dead horse + Baseball bat.

Should have gone for the one without the vocals then...


There's one riff in there that totally reminds me of my chorus riff in Team Synergy's song from last year's CaPE project. If you listen to it, you'll pick it straight away. You could almost go in that direction with this... depending on the lyric and how it goes.

Is this still up somewhere?

[Brendo]

Is this still up somewhere?

Agh... if nobody ponies up a link in a day or so I'll see if I can upload the segment in question. Can't fuckin' find any CaPE IV songs at all on this computer... which must mean I've lost them. Only got roughs and demos.

Edit: hey, I just realized you're in Smellbourne too. Whereabouts?

[seagate]

Agh... if nobody ponies up a link in a day or so I'll see if I can upload the segment in question. Can't fuckin' find any CaPE IV songs at all on this computer... which must mean I've lost them. Only got roughs and demos.

Edit: hey, I just realized you're in Smellbourne too. Whereabouts?

West, close to the Westgate, where are you?

[Smileyblue]

Originally Posted by seagate
Hi Smileyblue,
thanks for the comments and the encouragement.

No problem, you have a long road ahead of you, and you need to stay positive through out the process.

Originally Posted by St Robert
all right, before you guys start blowing each other

I seriously doubt that will ever happen. I am the last person you will ever find blowing sunshine up someones ass. :Roll eyes:

well, err.

it would appear that smileyblue is female.

so substitute some other mutually arousing action...

or something...

this is awkward.

...sorry..


rob

Yes I'm female, I'm also Slipperman's wife, so no, ROB, nothing mutually arousing will be substituted. It seems that you have an overly eager interest in other people's sex lifes, which leads me to only one conclusion, you seriously need to get laid REALLY REALLY badly.:D

So Seagate, your from Melbournia......I just moved from there 2 years ago when I got married. I was living in Richmond, right near the MCG. Your in a good city for inspiration my man.

[Brendo]

West, close to the Westgate, where are you?

East, close to Eastgate (http://www.eastgatemusic.com/) :grin:

[seagate]

East, close to Eastgate (http://www.eastgatemusic.com/) :grin:

:lol:

Thank God they have no pics on their website...

I'm banned from going to music shops and their websites.

No idea why...

[seagate]

No problem, you have a long road ahead of you, and you need to stay positive through out the process.

Hopefully not too long, not getting any younger. :)


So Seagate, your from Melbournia......I just moved from there 2 years ago when I got married. I was living in Richmond, right near the MCG. Your in a good city for inspiration my man.

What do you think of living in the states?


sea

[Smileyblue]

What do you think of living in the states?
sea

Well, lets put it this way, it's certainly not Melbourne, or any other part of Australia that I have experienced. :)

It takes some getting used to, but people are friendly and I am enjoying the process. I still really look forward to my visits home though. :Wink:

There are conveniences that I miss from home and there are some that I prefer here, but mostly, I miss the live music scene of Melbourne.:Confused:

It is definately not like taking a holiday to New York, very far from it in fact.

I have a different lifestyle and am looking at life from a very different angle....

It's a good experience to have.:D

[seagate]

It's a good experience to have.:D

:)

You can always come back home when you had enough, as long as Slippy doesn't mind relocating... :lol:

[dwoz]

Yes I'm female, I'm also Slipperman's wife, so no, ROB, nothing mutually arousing will be substituted. It seems that you have an overly eager interest in other people's sex lifes, which leads me to only one conclusion, you seriously need to get laid REALLY REALLY badly.:D


Not to speak out of turn here, but I was under the distinct impression that "Slipperman was YOUR husband". Not to pick nits or anything!

:-)


dwoz

[seagate]

Well, after a bit of soul searching and repeated listening I've decided to can the track for the time being. At the moment it feels too much like polishing a turd...

:Redface:

Thanks for all your input.


seagate

[st robert]

Yes I'm female, I'm also Slipperman's wife, so no, ROB, nothing mutually arousing will be substituted. It seems that you have an overly eager interest in other people's sex lifes, which leads me to only one conclusion, you seriously need to get laid REALLY REALLY badly.:D



look, part of the problem is that i have already been laid badly. i want to get laid goodly. heh heh heh.

enough about me.

well good job you guys, you killed his song. hapy now?

bunch of insensitive pricks...

and boobs.

rob

[seagate]

Oh dear...

just heard back from the singer, she is not happy...

I don't get her, shouldn't the decision on what happens to this track be up to me not her?

She did this a favour, in return I arranged/played/tracked/mixed 2 of her tracks, so in effect she was a session singer/writer for my track.

Copyright law in Oz is in effect as soon as something recorded, so if I don't use what she did she has no right...

I sure hope this is going to come to a pissing contest.


:(

[Brendo]

what exactly is she saying?

[st robert]

Oh dear...

just heard back from the singer, she is not happy...



she is also tone deaf. does she have any redeeming qualities?

now that her nose is bent out of joint, let her stew a bit. she'll get over it. it's not that big a deal. she put time in but she got something back. it's a push, so politely tell her to go fuck herself, then stop talking to her for, oh, say, a month or two. it'll be okay. what's she gonna do to ya anyway? sing at you?

rob

[otek]

I sure hope this is going to come to a pissing contest.

Great, that would settle things once and for all, since she probably can't stand up doing it.

[mousdrvr]

Seagate,

Ya know that hate that Dowz, was talking about? Well here, my friend, is the time and place for it. Personally I have only one real regret in my musical life and that is having cared for more than a millisecond what people like this chick thought about anything at all to do with music.

I don't know about OZ but here in the US it could be argued that she has created a derivative work, in which both you and she have rights, But Dude that is SO not the fucking point, it causes me pain to type it. When I first heard her I agreed her vocal was not cutting it but in the back of my mind I thought "hey maybe if she's actually into it she'll pull it together and develop kind of a Carly Simon thing with her vox that could be really cool" But now I'd bet a ton of money that will NEVER happen. Getting precious about her first efforts and all the attendant "rights" is fucking delusional. Where you gonna be in 3 weeks Bro? Yeah, right up here with your next piece of work, taking an ass pounding, with style and class, and IMPROVING. What do you want to bet, she'll be sitting around on the phone with her friends talking about this cat Seagate who "fucked her over" These people are POISON. I'm gonna bet there's a little voice in your head saying the same thing, PLEASE listen to it.

-mous

[ajcamlet]

seagate:

did you take the track down, man? i cant seem to get the link to happen, i wanted to hear this chick....


alan

[seagate]

Here is what went down (edited):

She wrote:

Am I allowed to put Little Princess on my "myspace"? I'll make is so no-one can download since it's work between both you and me!

I replied:

To be honest I prefer you don't! I still consider it a work in progress and whilst I'm very happy with what you did, I'm not entirely sure it is what I had in mind for it, I've shelved the project for the moment to get some distance from it...

Please don't take this personal, I guess I'm just not used to working with other people, especially when it comes to vocals, on my mostly intrumental tracks. It's a learning period for me...

Her reply:

Hmmmm, I don't know what to say. I know you wrote the music, but the lyrics and melody are mine, I won't use it as of yet, but maybe we need to come to some understanding or something. I don't know..... I'm not meaning to sound like a b**ch, but I wanted to let people hear it...... I guess I didn't expect to do this and then not let anyone hear it.......

My final word:

As I said I'd prefer you not to use it until I decide what I'm going to do with it. If the track stays the way it is, ie your vocals and lyrics, you will get full credit and use out of it, rest assured.


I now have an extra job everyday checking her MySpace page to make sure she hasn't posted the track... :Mad:

I really can't see a problem in all of this, if I don't use her stuff, and this should be my decision not hers, then she has no rights to anything.

ajcamlet, I've put the track back up (lucky I don't pay for uploads :) it's here: http://homepage.mac.com/mscheurer/.music/LittlePrincess.mp3

I suppose I'll have to be more careful next time I work with people I don't know, perhaps even get some sort of contract...

:Confused:

[st robert]

ah, let the bitch post it. if she wants to put herself out there like that, let her. you can always deny involvement to your friends and as you are in the process of a rewrite you still own the track. the next colab will sound completely different anyway. i seriously doubt people will hear the new one and go: "hey, you ripped off that fat chick on myspace. i'm sure all five of her friends hate you now. get a lawyer."

as stated above, it's poison. do not involve yourself any further with baby doll.

my .02

rob

[seagate]

as stated above, it's poison. do not involve yourself any further with baby doll.


I suppose I'll be the subject of her next hate song... :lol:

As for letting her use it, the missus said the same, but what if the next colab of the song hits the big time? We can't have 2 version out there...

Then again, by that time I'd let the lawyers handle it... :Razz:

[Brendo]

so politely tell her to go fuck herself, then stop talking to her for, oh, say, a month or two. it'll be okay. what's she gonna do to ya anyway? sing at you?

rob

:lol:

Hello, new sig line!

[dwoz]

Since I bear some small portion of the blame for this love-fest, I'd offer a nugget:

Why shouldn't you let her post the song on myspace? Where's that gonna go?


nowhere.


but it will give her a little sense of self.


As much as it is true that you don't compromise your art for convenience's sake, also you don't burn bridges on a whim. Her lyrics are bitter, but not in an inspired way like the Jagged Little Pill that she's trying to emulate. Her delivery is diffident, but not in the way that PJ Harvey does it that makes you want her no matter what she looks like.

In most of the developed world serviced by a legal system that subscribes to international copyright conventions, her song is using your production. You don't have a copyrighted song, you have a copyrighted sound recording that she's using as a sample under her SONG.

but, this is all reindeer games about monopoly money.

Ask her to simply list you as producer or collaborator or whatever, and see what you can't find moving forward. It isn't outlandish to imagine that this woman will come out with something breakthrough and sublime next go-around.


what do you really lose by her posting the result of your collaboration?


btw...what's her myspace page?

dwoz

[Watershed]

Hey Seag,
Let her do it man. Anyone listening on her site will only 'hear' the vocal anyway, so it'll be her bad, not yours.

Keep the peace!


btw Dwoz, here's her page http://www.myspace.com/misskrock

[seagate]

Makes sense, so ok, she can have it...


Edit:
Just had a reply to my message, and she is happy again...
Looks like I saved what little street cred I had, pheeeewww

Grab a copy of the songs Excuses and Not Ready from her page for reference, no doubt she'll upload the versions I did for her soon, would love to know what you guys think about my instrumentation on those...

[Brendo]

Hey, at least you're still in her top friends! :lol:

[seagate]

Hey, at least you're still in her top friends! :lol:

Lucky me eh?


:lol:

[st robert]

just checked out her myspace site.

ick.

every time i go to myspace i just feel like i need a shower. every fucking whack job bumping uglies and typing "right on, grrl" and everybody has customized their pages with the same tired bad themes and shit photos and nobody washes their hands after using the can.

the girl is a weak singer.

the worst part is that apparently, nobody has told her this.

or she was too self involved to listen.

but i repeat myself.

ick.

rob

[Watershed]

the girl is a weak singer.

the worst part is that apparently, nobody has told her this.

or she was too self involved to listen.
Bit of both probably.

[seagate]

Interesting, whilst I was rewriting the music for 2 of her songs, she apparently had someone else remix one of them (when I asked her she didn't have any of the audio files) without telling me.

I don't feel so bad now dumping what she did on my track...

Anyhoo, have a listen to the Excuses track and let me know what you think of the instrumentation, some of my best riffage on that one...

The original is here: http://homepage.mac.com/mscheurer/.music/crap/Excuses_org.mp3

The new version:
http://homepage.mac.com/mscheurer/.music/crap/Excuses_fnl-211106.mp3

[chrisj]

Whoa. I almost didn't get past her first sentence. I assume the second version is what you do? It seems like the syncopatey stuff is working better than the tune the thread started with, but it still feels like the drums are being programmed by the keyboardist- kick and snare are popping up like it's sort of arbitrary.

You do the opposite of a mistake I always do- I get twitchy and spazzy and have everything falling off the front of the beat screaming, and you've got everything sitting stolidly, really laid back and smooth. This is why people are looking for a more exciting vocalist etc: the bed is a featherbed.

I wonder what you'd sound like without trying to do the funk drum sequencing... I hear a sort of eighties-cool-hair vibe. Maybe instead of a cranky woman you need a Ric Ocasek for a vocalist?

It makes me wish you were posting stuff in the collaboration forum, because it would be fun trying to put tracks on something not so intimidating. We keep getting stuff from Carlo, JG and Archtop which has intimidatingly good vocals and the rest is so organic and fonkey that a spastic nerd like me has no business tracking anything to it :)

[Brendo]

I love that you've got all this in...

/music/crap/

[seagate]

I love that you've got all this in...

/music/crap/

:Twisted:

[emtou2u]

Hi Seagate -

Chrisj's collaboration idea is a great one...is that a consideration?

[J.G.]

Hi, Seagate, :)

How 'bout this alternative:

Let her do what she wants with HER tracks--as yes, they are hers so perhaps she can whip it into some crazed acapella thang, or let her record her own intrumental arrangements for it, leaving what you did out of the piccie.

Onward and upward, as they say...

: J

[seagate]

Hi Seagate -

Chrisj's collaboration idea is a great one...is that a consideration?

It is, but I don't want to talk about it as yet...

:grin:

[emtou2u]

oooo la la .....



secrets & surprises....


well it is the holiday season....



i'll wait patiently santa.

[seagate]

;)

[jimmyjazz]

Just found this thread . . . actually, I think I just found this forum.

Jeebus H, seagate. Get thee away from her post haste! Is she as flat as she sings? (I know you've never met her, but still. Ow.) Furthermore, it's as if she paid no attention to the harmonic progression and just sorta threw her "melody" on top. A good writer could do SO much more with that bed.

Little risk in letting her post that on myspace . . .

[seagate]

Just found this thread . . . actually, I think I just found this forum.

Jeebus H, seagate. Get thee away from her post haste! Is she as flat as she sings? (I know you've never met her, but still. Ow.) Furthermore, it's as if she paid no attention to the harmonic progression and just sorta threw her "melody" on top. A good writer could do SO much more with that bed.

Little risk in letting her post that on myspace . . .


:lol:

Looks like after all the fuss she made she is not even putting it up... As for her being flat, check her page if you dare...

:Twisted:

[seagate]

A new version of this track is now in the Collab forum

http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?t=897

as well as a new one

http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?t=900


Hope you guys/girls can lend a hand.


:)

[seagate]

Just in case anyone cares what this tune turned out to be, it's up on the OceanWerks (link below) MySpace page, now called Promises...


:)

[Ambo]

Nice one Seagate...I just browsed through the rest of the thread...lolol sounds as if you had a few problems along the way...
But this turned out to be a really cool piece...nice vox from Carlo too...:Thumbsup:
Well done for sticking throught the whole process and getting to this...
:Thumbsup:

singer/writers are a strange breed...lolol look at me!!!...:)
nah! I'm one of the exceptions...lolol and modeste...
amitiés
Annemarie
:lol:

[Carlo]

Nothing like french perfume...:Wink:

[seagate]

:)

Hmmm, smells nice!