Bands that practically mix themselves...

[Droolbucket]

Pro sound guys.... what advice would you give to bands to keep their FOH mix more consistent?
I'm not a full-time sound guy, but I've been asked to help mix a few local bands when my schedule permits, and it's something I really enjoy doing. I keep pretty busy playing with my own musical projects, so I'm on both sides of the board.
Something I've noticed is that some bands, once you get them dialed in, are pretty maintenance-free the rest of the night. You may have to compensate for a growing crowd, and turn effects on and off for different songs, but the vocals and instruments stay balanced. Soloists turn themselves up for solos and back down for rhythm, etc.
On the other hand, some bands need almost constant maintenance, juggling the balance of the vocals from song to song, keyboard volumes that vary wildly from patch to patch, guitarists who play wide open regardless of the tune, etc.
Here's an example.... my brother is an excellent bass player, and gets a fantastic sound..... during ballads. He's a fingerstyle player, and when he plays normally, sounds great. When the band does an up-tempo number, he digs in a little harder, and suddenly that nice warm bass tone gets edgy and brighter. It's not that big of a volume jump, but his tone is now reaching up into the guitar range, and the guitar/bass mix is crappy. When I EQ some top out of his bass, he sounds muddy during the next slow song. I spoke to an older bass player who ALWAYS got a great bass tone, and he used his tone control a lot. He said he usually rolled it off (to about 5 on his particular bass), and if called upon to do a bass solo, he just turned his tone pot up. This way, his tone expanded up into the guitar range, giving him definition for his solo, and when the guitar came back in, he just rolled his tone back down.
Any tips for for us lowly musicians that would make the FOH job easier?

Droolbucket

[Immanuel]

I am not a FOH - if anything, I am closer to being a musician. Between the lines, you did give some advices yourself. My personal short answer would be: "Take responsibility" and "Be a team player".

If your patches are all over the place volume vice, then you are not taking responsibility. It is your job as a keyboard player to have that sorted out.

If your guitar goes from 10 to 10, then you are likely fucked, when you get to the solo. Why? Because you didn't take the responsibily to make sure you have adequate headroom. Unless the FOH is experienced with the band to a degree, that he knows when the solos kick in and out and how much gain you need, then there is noone to blame but yourself for not taking the lead, when the solo starts (pun intended).

As a singer, you should learn to work your microphone. Your levels are mainly your own responsibility. You want proof, that it is not just the FOH being an ignorant? Even the best singers do this. And you would expect them to tour with skilled FOHs. If this was best done solely by the FOH, then this would likely have changed ages ago.

Drummers ... look under the description for guitarists. Your dynamic range is mainly your own responsibility. It might be, that you get a kick ass sound when hitting the snare at a certain angle at a certain velocity, but ... you are playing a concert (music) - not doing a recording session for a sample library.

If anyone tries to be on top all of the time, then they haven't learned the skill of knowing one's place at any given time in a song (being a team player). The possible exception is lead singers, but even they should still learn to work their microphones, or they will likely be quite anoying for the audience.

...

Sure, if you want to play a concert, and you don't have all these skills quite up and ready, by all means do play the concert (this is pretty much, where I am, but I am working on it). Have fun and get some experience - just don't go blaiming the FOH for the things which pretty much sums up to your own lack of skills.

[pounce]

well, your bass player example was the perfect answer. bands that listen to themselves as a whole entity and fully consider the song and arrangement will succeed. bands that think each member is soloing the whole time are unmixable. nothing you can do. and at worst, in those cases, i'm not sure how hard i should even try.

yes, there is no doubt, the bands that have sounded the best while i was behind the board required the least from me, and vice versa. absolutely true. and no amount of extra effort on my part could make the worst bands sound like the best bands.

in short, that part of the responsibility is entirely the bands. any band that wants to succeed simply needs to listen to themselves better. perhaps practice all facing each other. perhaps record all rehearsals and listen back critically and honestly to determine how songs should change to work better.

[bunnerabb]

If your patches are all over the place volume wise, then you are not taking responsibility. It is your job as a keyboard player to have that sorted out.

From your lips to God's ear.

If your piano patch is almost inaudible and your B3 is almost twice as loud, you're not working your rig. I don't know what it is with keyboard players and the whole "My Hammond patch needs to be fuckoff loud and like a dentist drill on the upper octaves" theory.

Learn mic technique. If you shout and croon at the same distance, not even a decent comp can ride that.

Some bands I can dial in and it's mostly just babysitting and restructuring a few level here and there to get the mix closer to the record.

Most of the acts I do, they can play and work the crowd, but I pretty much create their sound out of whole cloth.

I try and get the room, the band and the sound of the record as much as possible and happily adjust the mix to accurately offer the arrangement that the band is doing. Original bands are easier to do, sometimes, because they will either advance me a CD or the sound they're going for just happens because it's those guys playing that thing.

My house is a game of millimeters and even subtle changes can alter the balance.

If your "this is me playing my guitar" patch and your "this is my solo volume" patch are more than 3 dB from the other, you have to redial your gain and processing on the guitar rig.

Contrast is not the same as a bludgeon.

Nuance, nuance and more nuance.

That's the carnuba on the paint job.

[bunnerabb]

One more thing.

If you play a guitar through an amplifier your clean setting might sound thin and you might have the idea, and it's a bad idea, of the clean sound being quieter because you equate loud with that crunchy hot sound that you get from your stompbox but it's NOT TRUE.

Your clean sound is too loud and you should balance out the levels with a Nazi meter about one meter from your cab and tweak accordingly.