15 Rules for success in the Music Biz

[shikawkee]

Bob and I promised 15 rules about the industry. Sorry for the long vacation delay but here's the first five:



15.Never talk to an A&R person before the gig.

They will never stay for a whole show if you do.



14.If you hear the same specific criticism about your music from a variety of sources you might want to take a look at that part of your craft and re-evaluate it.



13.Surround yourself with musicians who are better than you and people who are smarter. You should be the weakest link in the chain.



12.If someone tells you, “We’re really not trying to mess with this part of your music….” They really are. (This is the same things as when someone is saying “it’s not about the money” when it really is.)



11.Never trust the judgment of someone who gets their music for free or doesn’t buy a lot of records. They are out of touch (this applies most to “suits” or “mooks”).


More to come...

[MacGregor]

14.If you hear the same specific criticism about your music from a variety of sources you might want to take a look at that part of your craft and re-evaluate it.


I like this one a lot, because it applies not only to music but
to just everything you'll ever do in your live.

[... some rants about governments removed...]

Mac

[shikawkee]

I like this one a lot, because it applies not only to music but
to just everything you'll ever do in your live.

[... some rants about governments removed...]

Mac

Yeah, that one's a biggie.
Feel free to add on with suggestions everyone.

[Wireline]

Submitting one: I believe it was Nathan East (bassist extraordinaire) that said in a Guitar Player interview 1000 years ago "Sometimes a clean shirt is more important than a clean lick"...

This makes a lot of sense somehow...

[shikawkee]

10.Show up on time, play in time and in tune.
Anything else is less than professional.

[PRobb]

10.Show up on time, play in time and in tune.
Anything else is less than professional.
One of the first things I was taught:

Early is on time
On time is late
Late is unacceptable
:Thumbsup: :Thumbsup:

[bunnerabb]

Lawyers write contracts. They write them for other lawyers. Not you.

Read every word. Twice.

Then show it to a lawyer that YOU pay.

[shikawkee]

One of the first things I was taught:

Early is on time
On time is late
Late is unacceptable
:Thumbsup: :Thumbsup:

Exactly! Wasn't it you that taught me this?
Maybe after one of our 20-hour sessions? :D :icon_eek:

[shikawkee]

9.Do your freakin' homework! If someone gives you a CD to study for a session make sure you know if like YOU wrote it. Learn how to make charts. There's nothing that slows a session down than someone who didn't do their homework and is "looking for parts" to play on a song.

[shikawkee]

8.Be a good hang. Be courteous, polite and helpful. Be personable and clean. No-one wants to be around a scruffy, smelly person and they sure won't want to work with you again. Get along with people and be open to collaboration. It's makes better music.

[PRobb]

Exactly! Wasn't it you that taught me this?
Maybe after one of our 20-hour sessions? :D :icon_eek:
UMMM.....maybe....can't quite recall:icon_eek: :lol:

[shikawkee]

UMMM.....maybe....can't quite recall:icon_eek: :lol:

Yeah, I probably took the term "lock out" a little too seriously back then.:icon_eek:

[PRobb]

Yeah, I probably took the term "lock out" a little too seriously back then.:icon_eek:
That might actually be another rule. What you can do in the last two hours of a 24 hour session, you can do better in the first half hour of a reasonable length day.

[shikawkee]

That might actually be another rule. What you can do in the last two hours of a 24 hour session, you can do better in the first half hour of a reasonable length day.

Yup. You may be glad to know we don't do those anymore.
Or not.:lol:

7.Anything more than an 8-10 hour session is usually
wasting time, effort and killing your team. The law of diminishing returns. Get some sleep and start anew.

[shikawkee]

6.THERE ARE NO SHORTS IN ROCK N' ROLL. I'm not kidding. Only Jimmy Buffett and Handsome Dick Manitoba can wear shorts on stage or in picture and I'm not even really sure they should. Maybe only Angus Young.

[PRobb]

6.THERE ARE NO SHORTS IN ROCK N' ROLL. I'm not kidding. Only Jimmy Buffett and Handsome Dick Manitoba can wear shorts on stage or in picture and I'm not even really sure they should.

Angus Young?

[shikawkee]

Angus Young?

Like I said, they look silly.:grin:

[PRobb]

Like I said, they look silly.:grin:

Well, if yer gonna be that way about it:Uh oh: :Roll eyes: :lol:

[shikawkee]

Well, if yer gonna be that way about it:Uh oh: :Roll eyes: :lol:

The difference with Angus is that it's a costume.
(Actually, it is for Handsome Dick too...)

I have no problem with someone who figures
out that it's show biz. That's just smart.

[shikawkee]

5.It's all about relationships. Be careful about burning bridges in the music biz 'cause you'll find you see the same people around year after year just with different jobs. A great entertainment giant once told me as I was complaining about an unruly agent, "Ed, if I only did business with the people I like I'd lose 75% of my business". They need you and you need them. It's strictly business Sonny. It's not personal. Be polite, fair and professional and people will notice and want to help you.

[shikawkee]

4.Know how to work with a budget and within a corporate structure. If you come in on time, under budget and produce good results you'll instill confidence and get more work with bigger clients. Learn how to work within the layers of a large organization such as a record label. Make them look good.

[shikawkee]

3.If you wanna' get involved and make something happen in the industry when you're just starting out hang around the creative folks, ie: other musicians, writers, fledgling producers, promoters. They're the ones who will likely make things happen later on.
It all starts with a song.

[shikawkee]

2.Diversify. If you're a guitar player learn another instrument. If you're a writer learn how to engineer. Learn about producing. If you're a drummer learn how to score for horns and strings. Learn the business end (ie:finance, promotion, PR, etc.). There are so many facets to the music business. Branch out and learn a little outside your natural skills. This will help you later to stay alive despite trends and cycles in the industry.

[shikawkee]

1.Be stubborn as hell. Don't take no for an answer. Work harder than everyone else but be wise enough to know when someone else is more talented and work with them. Find your niche.

[shikawkee]

I'll list them all in order shortly.....

[shikawkee]

Da' rules (in no particluar order)-


15.Never talk to an A&R person before the gig.
They will never stay for a whole show if you do.


14.If you hear the same specific criticism about your music from a variety of sources you might want to take a look at that part of your craft and re-evaluate it.


13.Surround yourself with musicians who are better than you and people who are smarter. You should be the weakest link in the chain.


12.If someone tells you, “We’re really not trying to mess with this part of your music….” They really are. (This is the same things as when someone is saying “it’s not about the money” when it really is.)


11.Never trust the judgment of someone who gets their music for free or doesn’t buy a lot of records. They are out of touch (this applies most to “suits” or “mooks”).

10.Show up on time, play in time and in tune.
Anything else is less than professional. Early is on time.
On time is late. Late is unacceptable.

9.Do your freakin' homework! If someone gives you a CD to study for a session make sure you know if like YOU wrote it. Learn how to make charts. There's nothing that slows a session down than someone who didn't do their homework and is "looking for parts" to play on a song.

8.Be a good hang. Be courteous, polite and helpful. Be personable and clean. No-one wants to be around a scruffy, smelly person and they sure won't want to work with you again. Get along with people and be open to collaboration. It's makes better music.

7.Anything more than an 8-10 hour session is usually
wasting time, effort and killing your team. The law of diminishing returns. Get some sleep and start anew.

6.THERE ARE NO SHORTS IN ROCK N' ROLL. I'm not kidding. Only Jimmy Buffett and Handsome Dick Manitoba can wear shorts on stage or in picture and I'm not even really sure they should. Maybe only Angus Young.

5.It's all about relationships. Be careful about burning bridges in the music biz 'cause you'll find you see the same people around year after year just with different jobs. A great entertainment giant once told me as I was complaining about an unruly agent, "Ed, if I only did business with the people I like I'd lose 75% of my business". They need you and you need them. It's strictly business Sonny. It's not personal. Be polite, fair and professional and people will notice and want to help you.

4.Know how to work with a budget and within a corporate structure. If you come in on time, under budget and produce good results you'll instill confidence and get more work with bigger clients. Learn how to work within the layers of a large organization such as a record label. Make them look good.

3.If you wanna' get involved and make something happen in the industry when you're just starting out hang around the creative folks, ie: other musicians, writers, fledgling producers, promoters. They're the ones who will likely make things happen later on. It all starts with a song and/or a concept.

2.Diversify. If you're a guitar player learn another instrument. If you're a writer learn how to engineer. Learn about producing. If you're a drummer learn how to score for horns and strings. Learn the business end too (ie:finance, promotion, PR, etc.). There are so many facets to the music business. Branch out and learn a little outside your natural skills. This will help you later to stay alive despite trends and cycles in the industry.

1.Be stubborn as hell. Don't take no for an answer (You'll hear it a lot). Work harder than everyone else but be wise enough to know when someone else is more talented and work with them. Find your niche and try to always stay fresh.

As the silly wabbit used to say.....tha's all folks!
Now go press record.

[Cosmic Pig]

I'm with Shikawkee on the shorts, and I'd like to add sandals. Why is it usually old players who do this? It's like their dick fell off or something.

Buuut anyways...

14.If you hear the same specific criticism about your music from a variety of sources you might want to take a look at that part of your craft and re-evaluate it.

There's a whole world in there. If you get the same criticism from the same type of people you might not want to write for those people. You might need to re-evaluate your goals instead of your craft. You might need to re-evaluate your ego.

Talent should be fluid, adaptable to another persons view, yet instinct should be trusted because the other view may not be yours.

Some people give their egos and talent over entirely to another person on the mistaken assumption that a stronger ego somehow equals stronger talent.

On the other hand some egos are so fragile they can't look at the possibility theres a problem with their music. Their egos are bloated and closed.

After a few years trying to deal with both scenarios as a producer I've come to the conclusion they can't be dealt with. Both types will come out with shit CD's. One because they have effectively become paying sidemen to someone elses project, the other because they won't budge on the vibraflap solo.

Cos.

[Bryson]

.

[Bryson]

6.THERE ARE NO SHORTS IN ROCK N' ROLL. I'm not kidding. Only Jimmy Buffett and Handsome Dick Manitoba can wear shorts on stage or in picture and I'm not even really sure they should. Maybe only Angus Young.

I just pictured Keith in shorts. Hah!
How 'bout Robert Plant....Jim Morrison, Hendrix....

Freddie Mercury and Bowie get a free pass too.

[shikawkee]

I just pictured Keith in shorts. Hah!
How 'bout Robert Plant....Jim Morrison, Hendrix....

Freddie Mercury and Bowie get a free pass too.

The difference is with Angus is that his is a COSTUME.
It is show biz after all. You can't give them the early show.
But wearing shorts because you're lazy is no excuse.
(At least Keith Moon was behind the drums when he did it!)

[trumpetboy]

Rule 16:

It's not what you know, it's who you know. And that's true in ANY business.

One might be the most amazing, creative musician, actor, technician or ditch digger. You never advance in anything in life unless you kiss a bunch of butts.

Butts who know less than you and have no musical talent what so ever.

So, if you want to be successful in the Music Biz, bury your ego and pucker up.

Trumpet Boy
:Wink:

[Bob Olhsson]

A better way to look at this is that it's often about who knows what you know.

[trumpetboy]

A better way to look at this is that it's often about who knows what you know.

Blackmail never works.

Trust me.

TB
:Twisted:

[McAllister]

I've seen some cats in Texas take the no-shorts thing way too far. I can understand the on-stage aspect, but these guys never wear 'em. Ever. 100 degress/90 humidity, and they are truckin' around in black jeans looking miserable.

Save it for the show, guys. Let's go swimming.

M

[ggunn]

6.THERE ARE NO SHORTS IN ROCK N' ROLL. I'm not kidding. Only Jimmy Buffett and Handsome Dick Manitoba can wear shorts on stage or in picture and I'm not even really sure they should. Maybe only Angus Young.

If I'm playing outside in Texas on a summer's day, I'm wearing shorts. I have had two brushes with heat exhaustion, and both times it was playing a gig like that in jeans, and I'm not going there again. So there. You can kiss my hairy knees. ;^)

[shikawkee]

If I'm playing outside in Texas on a summer's day, I'm wearing shorts. I have had two brushes with heat exhaustion, and both times it was playing a gig like that in jeans, and I'm not going there again. So there. You can kiss my hairy knees. ;^)

Okay, please let me amend that:

THERE ARE NO SHORTS IN ROCK N' ROLL IN THE UNITED STATES.

:grin:

[ggunn]

Okay, please let me amend that:

THERE ARE NO SHORTS IN ROCK N' ROLL IN THE UNITED STATES.

:grin:

Well, OK. I'll just stay here in the Republic of Texas...

The thing about rules is that they are there to help the clueless not step on their tallywhackers in public, not to cover every eventuality. When I am wearing shorts on stage, I will make sure that my underwear is intact. ;^)

[shikawkee]

I totally understand the Texas heat thing and you have my sympathy. Yet, even Vince Gill looked silly in shorts on the Clapton Crossroads telecast. (And I have TREMENDOUS respect for Vince...).

It's a tough call....my bald head has taken a beating at outdoor gigs in Texas. My compromise is a baseball hat to just survive the set.

[Tim Armstrong]

No shorts??? Fuck that!!! Summertime outdoor gigs REQUIRE shorts! Laugh all you want, but we gig full-time May-September...

http://www.moodswingers.org/sitebuilder/images/moodswingers6-590x590.jpg

:D

Cheers, Tim

[shikawkee]

Great pic!....like I said, I understand.
I admire y'all. I just can't do it myself. YMMV.

[Tim Armstrong]

Well, in our case, we wouldn't look much better with trousers...

:icon_eek:

Tim

[shikawkee]

I'll be in Austin in March playing outdoors so we'll
see if I can take it!

[nobby]

13.Surround yourself with musicians who are better than you and people who are smarter. You should be the weakest link in the chain.

Okay, I don't follow this. If you are the dumbest, least talented person in the group, aren't you the first one to get canned? :grin:

And if everyone followed this rule, wouldn't people have to work at being the dumbest and least talented to avoid breaking the rule? And what of the musicians that are smarter and better than you who aren't the weakest link in the chain? Clearly they are in violation of rule # 13 by being surrounded by you :grin: :Wink:

[shikawkee]

Okay, I don't follow this. If you are the dumbest, least talented person in the group, aren't you the first one to get canned? :grin:

And if everyone followed this rule, wouldn't people have to work at being the dumbest and least talented to avoid breaking the rule? And what of the musicians that are smarter and better than you who aren't the weakest link in the chain? Clearly they are in violation of rule # 13 by being surrounded by you :grin: :Wink:

If it's YOUR music and YOU are playing it YOU should be the weakest link in the chain. If not, you have almost no chance of getting further with YOUR music.

Hope that clarifies that a bit.:grin:

[nobby]

If it's YOUR music and YOU are playing it YOU should be the weakest link in the chain. If not, you have almost no chance of getting further with YOUR music.

Hope that clarifies that a bit.:grin:

Actually, no it doesn't, but thanks for trying :grin:


(Psst, that's your cue to get more specific :Wink: )

[shikawkee]

Actually, no it doesn't, but thanks for trying :grin:


(Psst, that's your cue to get more specific :Wink: )


Pssst....

If you are composing the music you should surround yourself with better musicians than yourself. Otherwise you're selling yourself and your music short. They won't fire you if you're hiring!

Every great songwriter needs great musicians. They are paid to make the magic and that's why you see the same names credited with playing on so many of your favorite hits. It's not an accident. You aren't paying for chops. You're paying for feel and experience. Having players that know what a hit feels like really makes a difference. Try it!!!!

[nobby]

Pssst....

If you are composing the music you should surround yourself with better musicians than yourself. Otherwise you're selling yourself and your music short. They won't fire you if you're hiring!

Every great songwriter needs great musicians. They are paid to make the magic and that's why you see the same names credited with playing on so many of your favorite hits. It's not an accident. You aren't paying for chops. You're paying for feel and experience. Having players that know what a hit feels like really makes a difference. Try it!!!!

That's all I was asking for. Your specific point of view. "weak link in the chain" is a vague metaphor.

Actually, I have tried it, and I completely agree, now that you've provided a few specifics.

From my own perspective, I wear a few hats, and some are a pretty good fit.

But there are some cases, even in a fairly simple arrangement/ production, in which I'm well served by bringing in the "Big Guns".

I've been writing songs, playing guitar, and keyboards, for many years.

If my life depends on it, I can play a decent bass guitar track, but it requires a lot of practice because, due to the other hats I'm wearing, I'm usually pretty rusty.

Drums? I honestly don't know how come I can't drums to save my life. It looks so easy :grin:

And forget about strings, brass, woodwinds, pedal steel, percussion...

But the weak link in the chain is what needs to go in order to keep the entire chain from being weak, hence my issue with your metaphor. I didn't know that you were speaking of a songwriter requiring experienced session musicians, the other way around, or what.

In the following link, I've done everything but play the drums, because, whatever you think of the song, the playing, arrangement, recording, and mixing... you REALLY don't want to be within earshot when I try to play drums :grin: And this is the only song I played bass guitar on, because the real bass guitar player is, well, better but unavailable for this song. It's a time/ budget thing. I hope you understand.

This is a simple arrangement: if you hear timpani or contrabassoon, you need to contact your physician immediately to re-evaluate your medications :lol:

And the point I'm making is that things aren't necessarily so cut and dried as musician vs. songrwiter vs...

Note: I'm taking down the link Sunday night if I don't pass out first. And the low end sounds fine on systems and bugs the piss outta me on others. I guess this is one of the reasons we need mastering engineers.

Warmth of the Sunshine (http://www.theconveyors.com/audio/ACHILLES-Warmth011908.mp3)

[Wireline]

I know...I know...I'm so old fashioned I think that Bob Wills will be the next really big thing.

But shorts on stage...at all? Not for me. I really think it is somewhat disrespectful to the people you are playing for, regardless of how they are dressed (on undressed)...

It has been less than 5 years ago that I dropped the habit of breaking heavy starched jeans and a properly starched shirt for nearly any gig...occassionally I would wear a t shirt, but it would be clean, no holes, usually ironed....and the times that required a Hawaiin shirt often resulted in teasing from 'bandmates' as the shirt was ironed, and the Stetson (either straw or felt, depending on time of year) was properly creased before a gig....

Of course, my ponytail is always neat, even braided for certain gigs, but that's a different story:Roll eyes:

I dunno....just seems to me that if entertainers don't care about their appearance, why should they care about their music? And if they don't care, why should I?

Like I said...old fashioned to the very end.

I've seen some cats in Texas take the no-shorts thing way too far. I can understand the on-stage aspect, but these guys never wear 'em. Ever. 100 degress/90 humidity, and they are truckin' around in black jeans looking miserable.

Save it for the show, guys. Let's go swimming.

M

[nobby]

I know...I know...I'm so old fashioned I think that Bob Wills will be the next really big thing.

But shorts on stage...at all? Not for me. I really think it is somewhat disrespectful to the people you are playing for, regardless of how they are dressed (on undressed)...

It has been less than 5 years ago that I dropped the habit of breaking heavy starched jeans and a properly starched shirt for nearly any gig...occassionally I would wear a t shirt, but it would be clean, no holes, usually ironed....and the times that required a Hawaiin shirt often resulted in teasing from 'bandmates' as the shirt was ironed, and the Stetson (either straw or felt, depending on time of year) was properly creased before a gig....

Of course, my ponytail is always neat, even braided for certain gigs, but that's a different story:Roll eyes:

I dunno....just seems to me that if entertainers don't care about their appearance, why should they care about their music? And if they don't care, why should I?

Like I said...old fashioned to the very end.

To me, the actual music imore inportant than how you look, but there are times when how you look really adds something.

If a band plays better becasuse they're wearing shorts in the heat, go for it.

OTOH, sharp dressing worked well with tight vocal harmonies and a bit of choreography for Motown groups. It created a certain precision and synergy in their performances.

If you want a study in contrast, below are links to the Four Tops and Amy Winehouse (in that order). Flash vs. trash.

Enjoy :grin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-v5bKyQQ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD5sahXoj0U

[shikawkee]

Image, or the image of lack of an image, is VERY important in music. Sure, you can find exceptions. (The image of lack of image) But how you are visually perceived has always been paramount. The video era just moved look to #1 vs. maybe #3.
Most bands or artists that don't have an image disappear especially in today's over-saturated media market. You gotta' consider this very seriously and conceive of how you can break through all Britney all-the-time.

[Rosstapher]

Cool tune, Nobby! I only have one small thing I'm hoping you could clear up for all of us:

Were you or were you not wearing shorts during that recording?

Inquiring minds want to know.

:Twisted:

[nobby]

Cool tune, Nobby! I only have one small thing I'm hoping you could clear up for all of us:

Were you or were you not wearing shorts during that recording?

Inquiring minds want to know.

:Twisted:

If you listen carefully you can hear that I'm wearing blue jeans.

Full length blue jeans!

[Rosstapher]

If you listen carefully you can hear that I'm wearing blue jeans.

Full length blue jeans!

At the time of my post I was listening through some crappy little computer speakers (it's hard to discern the length until you listen on a proper set of monitors), but I'm relieved to hear they were not shorts. :Coolio:

[Dick_Boze]

you guys are forgetting about axl Rose! with the shorts thing Come on Now

its a dog eat Dog world out there!

[Rosstapher]

.

[Rosstapher]

you guys are forgetting about axl Rose! with the shorts thing Come on Now

its a dog eat Dog world out there!

Well...I had forgotten about him. Damn...

:Roll eyes:

Now I have to forget about him all over again! :lol:

[Deborah Neville]

Da' rules (in no particluar order)-


5.It's all about relationships. Be careful about burning bridges in the music biz 'cause you'll find you see the same people around year after year just with different jobs. A great entertainment giant once told me as I was complaining about an unruly agent, "Ed, if I only did business with the people I like I'd lose 75% of my business". They need you and you need them. It's strictly business Sonny. It's not personal. Be polite, fair and professional and people will notice and want to help you.

4.Know how to work with a budget and within a corporate structure. If you come in on time, under budget and produce good results you'll instill confidence and get more work with bigger clients. Learn how to work within the layers of a large organization such as a record label. Make them look good.

1.Be stubborn as hell. Don't take no for an answer (You'll hear it a lot). Work harder than everyone else but be wise enough to know when someone else is more talented and work with them. Find your niche and try to always stay fresh.

As the silly wabbit used to say.....tha's all folks!
Now go press record.

Great List!! I'd emphasize the excerpted points...in #1, changing the word "stubborn" to "persistent"...Relationship, money, enduring personal commitment...keys to success in any endeavor..The idea of budget also applies to one's "personal finances"...keep your own house in order....handle debt...you won't be prepared for the "big stuff" if you don't handle the "small stuff"...Commenting specifically about some side point about "contracts" (paraphrased as 'only trust what the lawyer you pay writes'): I'd restate it to mean: work with professionals you trust, and trust enough to get clarity: respect yourself enough to ask what things (e.g.contract terms) mean, and what they don't mean...In the end, trust & respect yourself: that you have all the smarts necessary no matter how many questions you need to ask, and a responsibility to understand what the contract means..because contracts are, essentially, a writing of the terms of a Relationship...and, #5 it all about relationships.
And as for shorts - OK with leg makeup & fishnets I suppose :)
dn

[Wireline]

And as for shorts - OK with leg makeup & fishnets I suppose

Well...OK....you ARE a well respected attorney, so I'll go with your advice.

Should I shave my legs 1st?:lol:

[Bob Olhsson]

Hey, fishnets worked for the glam-rockers!

[shikawkee]

Not a lot of guys, actually none that I saw, wearing shorts on stage at this year's SXSW in Austin last week (even with 95 degree heat). It was very heartening.:grin:

[Dave.R]

big HELLO to all.

no shorts allowed?!!! :icon_eek:

http://stashbox.org/94299/untitled.bmp
R.I.P.

[ggunn]

big HELLO to all.

no shorts allowed?!!! :icon_eek:

http://stashbox.org/94299/untitled.bmp
R.I.P.

That's what they say, but if I'm playing outdoors in the Texas summertime, you'll see my hairy knees. Feel free to avert your eyes.