it didn't happen in rehearsal

[pounce]

ran sound today at a nice theatre. business theatre thing, large national bank. almost went perfectly, everyone did leave happy.

however



the one wireless mic used all night, added at the last minute and used only by the ceo of the bank (bigwig) which worked perfectly for two hours of rehearsal took a couple of rf hits during the actual event a couple hours later. it's a pisser. i wanted him to just stay at the podium anyway. happened a few time, just little dropouts. real nice expensive uhf system, totally decent kit. pisses me off. this is the stuff that makes me leary of wireless. i went in to a theatre (not my house gig, a different theatre i know less well) a like so many live events had to wing it mostly. the video rolls and podium stuff sounded great. the lav sounded fine too. just something else that snuck up on me in the real thing.

for the good, shure having the ability to lock off the controls is fabulous. the best secret a soundguy can have when working with inexperienced talent (like business theatre).

[G. Hoffman]

I have a basic theory when doing sound. It goes like this:


Wireless is evil.



I sometimes do these little cooking demo's in one of the local department stores. One week I had one of these things every day, and EACH time I would test the wireless. Everyday, they would work perfectly when I was testing them. And each day, come show time, they would stop working completely. This was right after they had put in new convection stove tops in their cooking demo area, so I though, "that MUST be it." So, I tried to recreate the problem by using the stove. Nope, didn't work. For three days this kept happening, and I NEVER figured out what the problem was. It stoped happening once we started using the new Shure wireless (I was using U series, now we use the H series, I think it is). It was in the downtown location, so I think it was all the business assholes Blackberrys.


Oh, and yes, the lock controls on the Shure wireless are a god send, particularly when you are dealing with corporate "tallent."



Gabriel

[Tim Halligan]

Wireless is evil.


No wiser words have ever been spoken.

Ticking timebomb.

It's all about "when" they fail...not "if" they fail.

We had radio mic dramas beyond belief at the Test cricket in Perth last summer...those on-air failures were seen by millions.

We could not make the fault happen again once we were off air...

Same story for 3 days.

Insane.

Cheers,
Tim

[Droolbucket]

I can't seem to google up the article right now, but I remember reading about wireless problems at a theme water park several years ago. Apparently, they had spent a considerable sum on high-end wireless mikes, only to have dropout problems during their live shows. They could not duplicate the problem at any other time. They brought in the propeller heads to find the problem, and one old timer finally figured out that the aluminum benchs, wooden support beams and concrete base for the grandstand was, in essence, a giant capacitor. When the crowd shuffled in and slid across the benchs to their seats, they were charging the capacitor. When the charge built up to a certain point, it discharged through the concrete base, creating RF interference that would take out the wireless system for a few seconds. They ran a ground strap from the bleachers to the concrete... problem solved.
I wish I could find the original article.... I thought it was linked to the old Marsh pit, but I can't find it now...

Droolbucket

[clicktrack]

What kills me is when this thing happens and you're running FOH from the audience, audience members turn and look at you as if you caused it.

Yeah...I have a switch that causes induces RF interference.


From what I've seen in successful usages of wireless, its not just a case of plug and play. There are a few steps that will significantly help the wireless system.

1) Frequency selection: The wireless spectrum is getting crowded. Its a known fact, and the wireless manufactures are annoyed that the spectrum that they've been using for years is now being shared with a tonne of other unlicenced devices. (Thats what you get for unlicensed, huh?) Some facilities actually list what frequencies absolutely should not be used, however its rarely known. The smart thing to do? A site survey allows you to determine which frequencies are available. The problem with this is that, like many things, there is rarely time in a production day to do the right thing, so this could go by the wayside...and certainly won't help in a situation like Pounce's where they walk up right before the show with a wireless system.

2) Increasing your chances of pickup. Using a couple of high-gain, wideband antennas help significantly. These provide better coverage of your chosen frequency spectrum and better rejection of what you don't want.

RF isn't quite the black magic that we think it to be...in fact, in some ways, RF behaves very similar to sound waves (yes, I'm oversimplifying, but it can apply). However it does need to be treated with respect for it to not bite us in the ass the way we're used to it doing.

Having said all that, given a choice for a live situation, I'd go for a wired mic. Much less to think about, and much less to go wrong.

[ggunn]

So, we're playing in a little club on 6th street here in Austin, where the clubs are jammed together sharing common walls, and our lead singer is on a wireless handheld mic. On a song with a long instrumental break, he has the bright idea to turn his mic off to conserve his batteries as he leaves the stage during the jam. The FOH guy is somewhere off in the crowd chatting up a babe.

There's another band playing next door whose guitarist is also wireless, and on the same frequency. The other guitarist in our band looks at me with that "WTF are you doing?" look. I just raise both hands as our neighbor wails away through our PA.

[G. Hoffman]

1) Frequency selection: The wireless spectrum is getting crowded. Its a known fact, and the wireless manufactures are annoyed that the spectrum that they've been using for years is now being shared with a tonne of other unlicenced devices. (Thats what you get for unlicensed, huh?) Some facilities actually list what frequencies absolutely should not be used, however its rarely known. The smart thing to do? A site survey allows you to determine which frequencies are available. The problem with this is that, like many things, there is rarely time in a production day to do the right thing, so this could go by the wayside...and certainly won't help in a situation like Pounce's where they walk up right before the show with a wireless system.




That's one of the things I've liked with the new Shure stuff. You can plug your laptop into a spare reciver (you should ALWAYS have at least one spare reciver) and get an idea of what the RF layout is IN REAL TIME. A wonderful idea, if you ask me. I'm sure others have had it, but I've always been on the Shure U stuff before.



Gabriel

[blackieC]

Wireless is evil.


Gabriel

A-fucking-men.



It was 1987. A guy I knew was selling his wireless rig and was gracious enough to let me "test drive" it for a few days before committing to a purchase. Being that I was eighteen and a total fucking moron (the only difference now is that I am no longer eighteen), I decided to try it out at a gig.

We were playing a pool hall in Catoosa Oklahoma so it was considered a "road gig" as we had to drive all of the way from Tulsa. You may well be able to imagine what a class joint it was if you have ever driven through Oklahoma.

So I set up my rig early in the evening for a sound check and everything seems to be working great. Although I do remember thinking at the time that my tone was a bit "off". I was playing through a JC-120 at the time so questionable tone seems a bit funny in retrospect.

We decided to go out for a "smoke" before gig time and the drummer tells us as we are hiding behind an abandoned building facing the railroad tracks that he didn't bring the usual swag fattie, but he was able to glom onto a lump of hash.

Being the consumate professionals that we were, we smoked it.

We staggered back to the poolhall at showtime, pick our instruments and launch into our first set. The first couple of songs go by without incident but then halfway through our rendition of the Cult's Wildflower, my amp begins blaring KVOO, country hits of Oklahoma.

I spend a very stony intollerable length of time re-patching my rig with a real connection.

I swore that from that moment on I would never, ever, fucking ever use a wireless again.

The amazing part is that I was able to remember my pledge and to this day have never plugged in to one of those filthy demons.

Wireless IS evil.

[micguy]

"Wireless is Evil"

Hmm - we use an awful lot of it at our church (130 channels), and although it isn't bulletproof, it can be made to work very reliably.

It is a very involved topic, though - not something for the faint hearted or easily discouraged. I got some of my education from guys that are real experts on the topic, but the rest of my education was done the "hard way". Luckily, most of it was in rehearsals, though, unfortunately, not all... :-(

[pounce]

i don't fully discount wireless. i'm used to seeing 40 to 50 channels running at once for broadway shows. being able to scan frequencies to see what is free or not is a big help with bigger better (and more costly) systems. but i've certainly seen even the best of them fail. it sucks. for me the it didn't happen at rehearsal aspect is of course the most vexing. we truly had it eq'd and sounding good. all we needed was to have it work in the show the way that it did at the rehearsal.

[Tim Halligan]

Hmm - we use an awful lot of it at our church (130 channels), and although it isn't bulletproof, it can be made to work very reliably.


130 channels???

What...are you micing every member of the choir? :lol:

What's your FOH channel count after you've added 130 channels of RX into the equation?

That is the largest RX channel count I've ever heard of...I mean, I thought one of those Lloyd-Weber shows (Cats?) that was running about 40 channels was huge...

Tell us all about it.

I, for one, am fascinated.

Cheers,
Tim

PS. In my world "not bulletproof, but can be made reliable" is an oxymoron.

Bulletproof = reliable.
Not bulletproof = not reliable.

YMMV.

Pounce is right however.

Working during rehearsal, but not at showtime/on air is most annoying...

[pounce]

i agree that 130 is more than i've otherwise heard of. and that around 50 or so is normal for touring broadway.

you'd need more than one pretty darn big mixing board to handle the wireless in that situation. maybe a pair of yamaha pm1d's ganged together?

you'd need the absolute best wireless (maybe sennheiser) with the cool computer monitoring of their frequencies and activity to keep it all organized. touring broadway almost always has the A2 babysitting the wireless rack and ready with spares. i do think the shoe holders labeled and loaded with mics/beltpacks is a great way to handle getting mics to people, and a perfect re-purposing of a household item for theatre useage.

but any info on how 130 wireless units are handled would be news to me. sounds like your battery supplier is a happy guy with an expensive car.

[micguy]

130 channels is not all on one stage - This is a very large church; "main stage" where the older adults go, has 50 channels of wireless (including mics, in ear monitors, intercoms). Between High School, Junior high, grade school and a Spanish language service, there are 9 other places on the campus with wireless - think of it as a broadway show and 9 off broadway shows in one big building.

Yes, coordinating it is "fun", but...if you want "fun", you should talk about political conventions, the Super Bowl, that sort of thing - from 300 to 1,000 coordinated RF frequencies. I have it relatively easy.