Logic Universal Track Mode discussion

[shhpeaceful]

[shhpeaceful asked a question about Logic's Universal Track Mode. This is a topic which I feel merits more discussion...]



Hmmm. That's odd. That plugin was stereo here, are you certain you have UTM turned off?
otek

turning off UTM fixed the problem, and no errors popped up. i suppose you have a larger monitor than me (*17") and thus the arrange window was sized a little larger.


now, i searched the user manual and it doesn't tell you exactly what UTM is. MM and others think it's awful, and i think it's kind of shady that they don't include what it does in the manual, but they tell you you shouldn't normally turn it off.

so what is Universal Track Mode?

[otek]

now, i searched the user manual and it doesn't tell you exactly what UTM is. MM and others think it's awful, and i think it's kind of shady that they don't include what it does in the manual, but they tell you you shouldn't normally turn it off.

so what is Universal Track Mode?


Universal Track Mode is a system of organization for the Logic mixer environment, wherein any track can be switched freely from mono to stereo operation. It only handles Interleaved stereo files, not Split Stereo, which means that you cannot process the left and right sides of a stereo file independently.

I personally hate UTM, the above being one reason - not having the freedom to separately process each side of a stereo file is not consistent with professional mix behavior. It also makes it much harder to import files from systems that deal exclusively with Split Stereo files, e.g. Pro Tools.

In addition to the file format problems, coming from a console/analog background I find it infinitely confusing to not have each fader object represent a specific position in the mix - fader/channel 1=left, fader/channel 2= right, and so on.

Logic are pushing very hard these days to obliterate the Split Stereo file format, so I am not surprised they're trying to put a lid on the whole issue by promoting UTM as the de facto standard. A Google Search on "Universal Track Mode" yields very few results, comparatively speaking, and I think Logic users in general are just not aware of the controversy.

The whole trend is disturbing, because in their effort to streamline their entire product line, Apple are removing various professional options from the Logic platform. I would very much like to keep using Logic as I still believe it's the best tool for my own creativity. But if it is Apple's plan to continue pushing the platform further and further in the direction of amateur users, this may not be an option in the end.


otek

[Brendo]

where is this setting? I've never seen it in Express.

[shhpeaceful]

i've never seen it in express either.

i just noticed the exact thing otek is talking about with being able to freely switch between mono and stereo tonight:

i took one of the motown drum loops that i used as a scratch track and before turning off UTM, i could switch between mono, stereo, left and right modes, using the left or right mode to mute one side of the loop (drums on one side and usually a tamborine on the other)

now, i turned off UTM this afternoon, and i now can only select mono or it splits the loop onto two faders to toy with the balances. i was wondering why this was until i saw this post tonight.

i can certainly see the need to be able to work with both sides of a stereo file independently.

now does this mean that with UTM off, the busses are split up too? (if you want a stereo bus). i haven't gotten a chance to mess around with this yet.

[otek]

where is this setting? I've never seen it in Express.

B, this setting is a checkbox under Audio Hardware & Drivers, I forget the corresponding name in Logic 8.

now does this mean that with UTM off, the busses are split up too? (if you want a stereo bus). i haven't gotten a chance to mess around with this yet.

The busses work exactly the same.

If I'm not mistaken, that's where my widening plugin was at. :)


otek

[Brendo]

doesnt seem to be in 7 express.

[otek]

A quick session with the ctrl+F search function in Acrobat Reader reveals that the search phrase "Universal Track Mode" only appears three times in the entire Logic 8 manual, all pointing at or included in the same short passage on page 98:

"Universal Track Mode is switched on by default. It allows you to play back stereo and mono regions on a single track. It should be left on.

You should only turn off Universal Track Mode if using DAE or TDM hardware. For more information, see the Logic Pro 8 TDM Guide"

This is interesting on a number of levels. By contrast, the Logic 6 guide (from back in the Emagic days) offers the following:

With Universal Track Mode engaged, you can play back adjacent stereo and mono regions on a single track. The even-numbered audio objects won't be regarded as the right channels of the odd -numbered stereo audio objects to their left, and every audio object has it's own mono/stereo switch. Depending on whether a mono or stereo region is played back, the pan knob will behave as a balance or pan control. If you play back a mono region and the pan is set to the center position, both channels of the audio object will output the same level. Please note that the Universal Track Mode has limited routing capabilities.

If the Universal Track Mode is not engaged, mono regions will be played back only on the left or right channel of stereo tracks. You can only route the signal to single bus objects. The Non-Universal Track Mode has the advantage of more routing capabilities, such as additional output sends. You can also route the signal to stereo sends and pairs of busses (stereo busses), if you switch Universal Track Mode off.

The Non-Universal Track Mode is useful if you want to play different mono files for left and right mono channels of one audio object, even when it is linked to be a stereo track. An inserted stereo/stereo plug-in on that stereo linked track receives different signals for left and right, which is useful for vocoder like plug-ins.

In order to change tracks to or from DAE / TDM, always switch Universal Track Mode off. Also, be aware that DAE/TDM currently does not work with interleaved stereo files, but most other drivers like Audiowerk8, Direct I/O or ASIO and others do. If your tracks have to be switched between DAE / TDM and others, split stereo files should be used. To do so, enable the following switch: Audio > Audio Preferences > Global > Force convert interleaved into split stereo file(s).


All manuals up until (and including) the Logic 7.2 reference guide contain the same useful, objective and informative discourse on UTM and split vs. interleaved stereo formats.

This all goes away in the Logic 8 reference manual.

If you ask me, all of that is just a tad bit Orwellian.



otek



To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies — all this is indispensably necessary.

[otek]

doesnt seem to be in 7 express.


Look under Preferences > Audio > Drivers > Universal Track Mode (UTM).

(see also the reference guide, pages 203, 266 and 273)


otek

[Brendo]

im telling you ola, it's not there!

[otek]

im telling you ola, it's not there!

That is indeed odd, since the above description came straight from the Logic Express reference guide. :Confused:

Could it be that it doesn't come up somehow because you are using Digi hardware? It is a pretty fundamental aspect of the Logic signal flow, so it pretty much have to show up somehow.


otek

[Brendo]

here... screenshots.

[Brendo]

oh, and yes, UTM is mentioned in the logic express reference guide pdf.

[otek]

I'm still suspecting it somehow has to do with your hardware and the initial installation.... Whatever the case may be, I have absolutely zero time clocked on Express.

Here's my 7.2 launched with Digidesign and RME, respectively:

http://otekdrums.musiq.com/Picture 2.png
http://otekdrums.musiq.com/Picture 3.png

:Confused:

[Brendo]

bizarre, i've never seen that checkbox nor any of those other extra options.

i think maybe this is one of the restrictions of express.

[Mixerman]

bizarre, i've never seen that checkbox nor any of those other extra options.

i think maybe this is one of the restrictions of express.

I can't for the life of me understand why they'd make UTM a restriction on Express, when it's fundamentally a non-pro method of working.

Mixerman

[otek]

I can't for the life of me understand why they'd make UTM a restriction on Express, when it's fundamentally a non-pro method of working.


Especially since it's talked about in the manual (see above).

The bus limitation was implemented in Logic 7, but I think it was since lifted.

Brendo, what does your environment look like? Do you have the NON-universal track mode layout of your faders? I guess what I'm trying to say is, does Express have UTM ON or OFF as it's default (and apparently only) mode?


otek

[Brendo]

fucked if i know what UTM looks like. i have that button that lets me change any track from a stereo to a mono for what thats worth.

i dunno - i can screenshot and stuff if you want.

[otek]

fucked if i know what UTM looks like. i have that button that lets me change any track from a stereo to a mono for what thats worth.

That sounds like you are sort of stuck in UTM. :Confused:

Very, very odd.

With universal track mode OFF, your "left" faders control your right faders in stereo, like so:

http://otekdrums.musiq.com/UTMOFF.png

If you use stereo exclusively and don't change the visual layout, the "right", or "blank" faders can naturally be removed from the environment.


otek

[seagate]

Just had a play with this in 8 using Built-In on the laptop, switching UTM on or off doesn't make any difference here at all...

:Confused:

[Brendo]

With universal track mode OFF, your "left" faders control your right faders in stereo, like so:

http://otekdrums.musiq.com/UTMOFF.png

I've never seen those blank faders in my life.

[otek]

Just had a play with this in 8 using Built-In on the laptop, switching UTM on or off doesn't make any difference here at all...

It should make a difference to the layout of the environment, and to how Logic handles stereo files.

Turning UTM off should allow you to use split stereo files and manipulate the left and right side of the file independently.

Since Split Stereo is the preferred format for audio mixing because of this feature, the fact that Logic now pretty much forces you to work with interleaved stereo is a hassle, indeed.


otek

[jord]

According to the manual, Logic only forces you to work with Interleaved Stereo files only if you are using CoreAudio hardware, and will convert split stereo to interleaved. DAE/TDM Hardware uses split stereo as is. I am not in a position to confirm this because I only have CoreAudio hardware on my units.

If anything, I try to stay away from the pan knob when working with interleaved stereo, when possible as it nothing more than a stereo balance knob in this case. A better pan control is the Direction Mixer plug-in as you have greater image control and panning abilities with stereo interleaved files.

jord

[Brendo]

Sure, but Logic Express doesn't do DAE/TDM.... so i'm stuck in UTM all the time?

[otek]

If anything, I try to stay away from the pan knob when working with interleaved stereo

I'll do one better and stay away from interleaved stereo, period. :)

Interleaved stereo really only has one advantage over split, and that is that it taxes the hard disk and bus less. Aside from that, I really don't see any advantages.

The way Logic works now, it makes more sense to me to work only with mono files.


otek

[jord]

Apple has stated the same reason for sticking to interleaved stereo files: less taxing on the hardware. Although, I tend to wonder if there's something a little more underlying than this.

The Direction Mixer actually gives me a pretty good reason not to strictly stick with mono files. It does make up for interleaved's shortcomings.

jord

[otek]

I tend to wonder if there's something a little more underlying than this.


I am positive there is.


otek

[paulcezanne]

Hi all,
let me give this thread a new direction: Has anyone ever mentioned that the AUTOMATION is working much better in Logic6 when you have switched UTM on. I have worked here for years now with Protools TDM and an ESB connection on an OS9 system. After fighting a long time with unprecise automation I have recognized that the "bad boy" is "UTM off". You really have to listen carefully: sometimes the automation is fine, sometimes not when UTM is off. But when you switch to UTM on (what I don't really want since working for years with Protools!) the Automation works perfectly.
Has anyone made this experience too or are there big advantages in Automation in Logic7/8? In Logic 6 Automation is working better with UTM on. Sorry about that!

Best, paulcezanne.

[shhpeaceful]

I've never seen those blank faders in my life.


neither did i, until i d/l'ed otek's session from the other thread.



so i suppose i could leave UTM on since i pretty much only work with my own stuff in logic, and turn it off if i import an outside session or have to export my work to someone else. i like the idea of not having my already taxed CPU take more of a hit.

[otek]

Has anyone ever mentioned that the AUTOMATION is working much better in Logic6 when you have switched UTM on?

I don't work with UTM at all, so I couldn't comment. I do know Logic's automation sometimes didn't play nice with TDM.

I haven't worked in OS9 for a long time, however.... except in this one studio that still uses a PARIS system!

Be that as it may, working with UTM/on is not an option for me, for a number of reasons (some detailed above).

In Core Audio/OSX, with Logic 7.2 my automation is playing flawlessly. I still don't have all that many hours clocked on L8, but will post back when I do.


otek

[mardyk]

Logic Express 7 only uses UTM. It doesn't have the option of Split stereo. You can, however import sessions done in non utm mode.
Set your faders to L or R.
I have Express on my home computer for smaller stuff.

[Cheech]

I'll do one better and stay away from interleaved stereo, period. :)

Interleaved stereo really only has one advantage over split, and that is that it taxes the hard disk and bus less. Aside from that, I really don't see any advantages.

The way Logic works now, it makes more sense to me to work only with mono files.


otek

That was my solution when I started with Logic. I just used all mono files, which is what I get anyway when i transfer the files for mixing and editing from my Radar.