I need a drink

[jimmy v]

Be clear Jim!....Ok,I'm posting this for a very specific pupose,to illistrate a point I was trying to make on another thread.As an artist/writer,when you record,is there any expectation of sales? If the answer is no,well, your havin way more fun than I am but if the answer is yes than........other peoples opinions matter. To make my point I'm gonna tell ya a little story.Aproaching my 30th year I was injured on the job,With limited mobility and way to much time on my hands I started writing,recording,and performing.In the interviening years this grew in scope,begining with an Akai 12 track and ending in nice rooms with nice desks ,2"tape,and pro players,pro AE's ect.At one point,totally dissatisfied with my results,I hired a producer,not a big name,not know as a producer but a well respected AE.We began recording this song which I wrote,about the likeness between ==dealing with addiction and ==the realationship breakup.WE tracked everything then Mr.Producer Man says"I dont like the chorus,I think the melody is lame" LAME!....He calledmy fucking song lame! How much amI paying the fu....hang on.........I'm paying him..........may as well listen.He hummed the chorus you hear here.Same words.Just a little hook in the chorus. .....I sang it................. I listened>>>>>>>>>>...didnt like it........went home.....didnt like it......woke up the next mornin with that assholes chorus running thru my head,not mine....so I kept it.some months later I ended up recutting the guitars because what the producer( a real cool guy with a ton of talent) had tracked didnt do it for me.This gave me an oportunity to work with even more great talent.I love the guitars in this song,I didnt play them (Kevin Russell,Scotty Johnson)but it is EXACTLY what I heard in my head.I wish the hammond(played by Robbie King)was a bit more "out",and I love the groove played by Bill Hicks on drums and Tom Christiansen on bass ,although I need more kik.Saffron Henderson sang these parts in 10 min,wow! So,............Mr.Producer Man went on to win 2 grammys..........and me? ....................well......................you' ve never heard of me,have you?....................and if you have.................Its cause this song actually got on the radio! I still get the odd call from western Canada sayin they heard it on the radio...............It got me on tv..........................and I cant remember the original chorus................................So the point is................I wont pretend I dont care what you think, but on the other hand my self esteem doesnt depend on being liked .My bank account does. http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/viewtrack.php?trackid=50494

[st robert]

the song needs more dynamic build as it wears on. it is expertly played but somewhat lifeless in it's sheen and correctness.

it sounds like it was called in by good players.

i found myself looking at my watch by the time chorus 2 came around.

so you mentioned something about a point?

what was it?

rob

[jimmy v]

the song needs more dynamic build as it wears on. it is expertly played but somewhat lifeless in it's sheen and correctness.

it sounds like it was called in by good players.

i found myself looking at my watch by the time chorus 2 came around.

so you mentioned something about a point?

what was it?

rob

exactly

[Aardvark]

yada, yada...http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/viewtrack.php?trackid=50494

You can attach your mp3 to your post here...save us going elswhere to hear it.




Cheers,
Aardvark

P.S. You know Gaye Delorme by chance? Fuckin inspirational player.

[st robert]

exactly


no, really, what are you talking about?

or, what do i need to do to this song: rate it, listen and contemplate the process or just ignore it?

rob

[jimmy v]

You can attach your mp3 to your post here...save us going elswhere to hear it.




Cheers,
Aardvark

P.S. You know Gaye Delorme by chance? Fuckin inspirational player.

cool thanx.I'll try to figure it out. Do I know him? Not really,met him,seen him play,got his cd around here somewhere.Your're right,he can light a tele on fire.

[jimmy v]

no, really, what are you talking about?

or, what do i need to do to this song: rate it, listen and contemplate the process or just ignore it?

rob

Rob,you seem like such a bright boy,thought you would figure it out. Ok.nice and simple:::::::::1-The song was not recorded as originally written=========2-The rewrite was conducted by someone else.========= 3- I didnt particularly like the rewrite at the time. ========= still with me? good....========4.I chose the new version cause I thought it would be more apealing to my audience,and it(the new chorus) did not detract from what the song was intended to say.========.5- although neither you nor I paritularly love the song,my audience ate it up.This song is directly responsible for most of the revenue generated in my little business,in fact it has allowed me to record all kinds of shit that no one likes....+======== And finally, 6.-shelf life.As evidenced by the continuing air play combined with fan polling this song has some shelf life..That it has shelf life,in this case is not opinion but observation.

[jimmy v]

You can attach your mp3 to your post here...save us going elswhere to hear it.




Cheers,
Aardvark

As I am unable to edit my original post I'll try it here.

[volthause]

Sounds great. Can't really think of anything to add, although reading the story that you put with it is an interesting exploration into the "giving up the ego" when working with a producer who you trust.

[jimmy v]

Sounds great. Can't really think of anything to add, although reading the story that you put with it is an interesting exploration into the "giving up the ego" when working with a producer who you trust.
Tnx,To me it didnt quite hit the mark,but none the less....Re: the trust issue,same producer,the first day we tracked a 5 min 40 sec song called I'll find love. second day ,as soon as I arrive,he hands me a coffee and asks"do you trust me?""Uuuummm.ya I guess" "Ok" he says,and 2" tape starts flying around the room.I'm freakin,my dreams and life savings are swereling around me like some cheezy kids movie. When I got back from the hospital (he was treated and released) I had a listen to my new 2 1/2 min song.It was OK. I can no longer even idenify most of the edit points and guess what.????? Yep. It got some airplay too. Not much,no shelf life. Still,I kinda like it,and I admit,the original was lame. ...Trust

[st robert]

Rob,you seem like such a bright boy,thought you would figure it out. Ok.nice and simple:::::::::1-The song was not recorded as originally written=========2-The rewrite was conducted by someone else.========= 3- I didnt particularly like the rewrite at the time. ========= still with me? good....========4.I chose the new version cause I thought it would be more apealing to my audience,and it(the new chorus) did not detract from what the song was intended to say.========.5- although neither you nor I paritularly love the song,my audience ate it up.This song is directly responsible for most of the revenue generated in my little business,in fact it has allowed me to record all kinds of shit that no one likes....+======== And finally, 6.-shelf life.As evidenced by the continuing air play combined with fan polling this song has some shelf life..That it has shelf life,in this case is not opinion but observation.


yes, yes. but are you chasing your muse or the dollar? if it's all about the money, you can take a whack at getting your share, but ultimately, to base your approach on what will sell, you are chasing the current trends and will always be a victim of that.

to take the listener on a ride and chalenge them with things they may not like at first, to bend them, has more artistic appeal to me. my stuff ends up sounding pretty commercial most of the time anyway because of how my ear has developed over the years, but i feel it stays true to the intent.

i really don't care what the crowd thinks because i know it's good and it feels right. that i think they will like it is a side effect. if they help support me through record sales, ticket sales, etc. all the better. i have no option but to do this shit anyway. i am who i am.

your point is well taken in that it stems from an opinion about the mudcat collab (http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?t=486) that turned into some sort of misunderstanding or something. the point of that was that you wanted a hook in the song which was not provided and you mentioned that people would want that hook. the reply was that not everybody wanted that hook. you did a bit of chest beating and finally posted this.

true enough, as volt posits, it's a good story of how things work in those kind of professional relationships.

good on ya for that.

rob

[jimmy v]

yes, yes. but are you chasing your muse or the dollar?

rob

Clearly(I thought) I was talking about trying to achieve a balance.

[jimmy v]

i really don't care what the crowd thinks
rob

Ya lost me there,I cant even imagine that .Me,my favorite part of performing is the audience.To go on that ride you gotta care what they think.Don't ya?

[jimmy v]

because i know it's good and it feels right. that i think they will like it is a side effect. if they help support me through record sales, ticket sales, etc. all the better. i have no option but to do this shit anyway. i am who i am.

rob

I'm back on the bus gus

[jimmy v]

your point is well taken in that it stems from an opinion about the mudcat collab (http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?t=486) that turned into some sort of misunderstanding or something. the point of that was that you wanted a hook in the song which was not provided and you mentioned that people would want that====.................... hook. ====.............................................. ..the reply was that not everybody wanted that ====.............................................. ............hook.====............................. ....... you did a bit of chest beating and finally posted this.



rob
I even went back and scanned what I wrote.Hrer's the deal.I didn't say it was missing a hook,I said I felt it was missing something ,maybe a chorus. Seems to me that a few folk were so agast that I would critisize something that good (yep,its that good) that they didnt pay attention to what I was actually saying.Seems maybe some others felt cheated cause maybe I stole their thunder or something and they missed their turn to be the russian judge. Ooooohh.That may be politicly incorrect,should I capitalise the r ?

[mousdrvr]

I even went back and scanned what I wrote.Hrer's the deal.I didn't say it was missing a hook,I said I felt it was missing something ,maybe a chorus. Seems to me that a few folk were so agast that I would critisize something that good (yep,its that good) that they didnt pay attention to what I was actually saying.Seems maybe some others felt cheated cause maybe I stole their thunder or something and they missed their turn to be the russian judge. Ooooohh.That may be politicly incorrect,should I capitalise the r ?

Dude were we reading the same thread? :lol: The only thing I heard anyone tease you about at all was the multiple listens. For my part in that I'll go ahead and apologize to you publicly again! Like I said I think it's way cool you took the time and effort. I didn't get that anybody was telling you your opinion was wrong. I was kinda getting the impression that somehow you needed to be right about it, but you were dude! it was your opinion and it's totally valid. I really don't think anyone up here is too assed by the fact that that tune didn't make it for you. Hell usually I need something more hooky myself ( I'm kinda simple that way) this time I didn't, it got me.

It might help for you to get a little context. Now this is just from my perspective, and I'm not trying to speak to anyone else's intentions. I think a good deal of the fuss about that particular track is that all the collaborators modulo Hal maybe, met through this network. Now E. Shaun does this thing called CaPE and every year it keeps getting closer and closer to what I'd call the real deal kinda proof that we're all NOT just stroking ourselves up here. Now in my mind that piece like the Galactic tune, from 2 CaPEs ago and several others kinda crossed the line execution wise into the world of truly word-class. If you knew MudCat you'd know that he is more than capable of hooky melodies. The point is that team effort came together in a certain way. That's what I think the big fuss was about I still really dig the track as a song but what makes me dance around is that shit like that is going to make everybody else's shit better, It just will. So I'm guessing that a big part of the fuss was actually semiotic. In addition to kicking ass on it's own merit, it's pointing to what actually can be accomplished here. it's just a guess maybe you picked up on that and took it like clannish ball licking, and like I said in my other post it's not unreasonable.

Personally I like the fact that 95% of the whole CaPE thing is full of encouragement and support. I'm thrilled when no baby harp seals are clubbed in the making of a track.

Once again if I came of as mean spirited to you I'm sincerely sorry.

Now, Can we just let that go and get back to the MUCH more interesting Death-Match between Filthy Lucre and The Muse?


warmly and with absolutely NO snark or rancor,



-mous

[jimmy v]

I even went back and scanned what I wrote.Hrer's the deal.I didn't say it was missing a hook,I said I felt it was missing something ,maybe a chorus. Seems to me that a few folk were so agast that I would critisize something that good (yep,its that good) that they didnt pay attention to what I was actually saying.Seems maybe some others felt cheated cause maybe I stole their thunder or something and they missed their turn to be the russian judge. Ooooohh.That may be politicly incorrect,should I capitalise the r ?



Once again if I came of as mean spirited to you I'm sincerely sorry.

Now, Can we just let that go and get back to the MUCH more interesting Death-Match between Filthy Lucre and The Muse?


warmly and with absolutely NO snark or rancor,



-mous
I will shoulder my responsibility here in that I'm not always the most effective communicator,really I thought I was misunderstood and was trying to explain myself.If I came off as an asshole,it may be cause,....well.............. I am..............As far as "In my head "being a world class production,I agree. .........................................As far as the balance between the muse and the dollar,seems to me thats one of the biggest challanges facing any ARTIST in the music BUSINESS.........Nice to meet you..............Now.............fuckoff.......... ....Dr.Phil's on

[mousdrvr]

........Nice to meet you..............Now.............fuckoff.......... ....Dr.Phil's on

Fair Enough Bro! :lol:


-mous