sidechain on logic synths

[mattian]

hi, how to use sidechain on logic synths like es2, sculpture, i put the track on sidechain field, and it don't works, i can't find if there is a command, button to activate sidechain.

the simple way.. if you put a track on sidechain field and load a sidechain preset, don't do anything.

[Brendo]

what are you trying to do, exactly?

[Morph]

Hi,
I dont really get your question exactly, but anyway:
put some audio on say, Audio 1.
Open es2 in a software instrument channel, put the side chain (in top right corner) onto Audio 1.
Look at the modulation matrix, in the middle. Pick one of the slots, set the target to "cutoff 1+2", set the source to "sidech", slide the slider up to the positive a bit.
Set the cutoff to the middle, blend middle, resonance middle to hear the effect more easily.
I hope this helps.
Cheers, Morph

[jord]

Just to expand Morph's post, adding a sidechain in Sculpture has a totally different effect than ES2. A sidechain affects the exciters/disturbers in Sculpture creating different effects on your oscillator "string".

But again, the question remains: what are you trying to do with a sidechain? What effect are you trying to achieve.

jord

[mattian]

uhm, ok, but it is possible to control the note? i mean the vox says a word in E and synth plays E

[Morph]

Do you mean like a vocoder? use the evoc synth, which has a side chain (you set it up much like the es2), or the evoc plugin, which just analyzes the audio.
Or you could use the audio to score, analize the vocal , which gives you a midi region, which you slide over to your synth.
Cheers, Morph

[jord]

I think the closest thing you'll find in Logic is the EVOC-20 TO plug-in, although I haven't played with it too much. Other than that, I haven't seen any Pitch to MIDI plug-ins in Logic to date. Mind you, you could always test out the audio to MIDI functions within Logic and then map the converted MIDI track to any synth. Try that and see if that would work.

jord

[mattian]

ok but i don't like evoc.. have a too robot sound.. i want to pilot an organ or a "reverse instrument" with vox.
not a robot vocoder..

i want to make an effect like breathing suspiring with a reverse and another track with an organ that sustain the vox.. but a sound not too digital.. so sculpture maybe is better.

to me is enough a m-tron.. but isn't sidechain..

[Morph]

ok but i don't like evoc.. have a too robot sound.. i want to pilot an organ or a "reverse instrument" with vox.
not a robot vocoder..

i want to make an effect like breathing suspiring with a reverse and another track with an organ that sustain the vox.. but a sound not too digital.. so sculpture maybe is better.

to me is enough a m-tron.. but isn't sidechain..
Well, the plugin certainly sounds horrible on the default setting, and most of the presets,:lol: but you can get som more pleasant stuff from the evoc-20 synth, you might try that, blended with the vox, add in some melodyne perhaps?
I hope this helps. Cheers, Morph

[mattian]

yes thanks. i've tried with setting, i don't like to use presets, but i haven't found anything that i like.. probably i'm not enough experienced. but a lot of times a simple sound, to me is enough a monophonic sound with a bit of vibes, with a beautyful color, anything of futuristic ;) and i can't find it, if i find it is not sidechainable ..

well i'm experimenting.

ehm if you can, make the try with sculpture, try to listen the sidechain preset, i really can't do that.. there's the first that is "breath" and something other, that i want to listen and it don't works, and also the other, if you can, try it and say me if it works and how..

thanks!

[jord]

If I'm reading this correctly, you're dealing with two different audio sounds and it sounds more like you're going to have to get your hands dirty and do some sound design work and piece two audio samples together to get the sound you want. Either that or use two instrument tracks to fake a linear-additive type of synthesis (a la Roland D-50).

jord

[Morph]

ehm if you can, make the try with sculpture, try to listen the sidechain preset, i really can't do that.. there's the first that is "breath" and something other, that i want to listen and it don't works, and also the other, if you can, try it and say me if it works and how..

thanks!
OK, you need to set up the sidechain for the track as usual, enable object 2, set the type to external, turn up the knob in the middle to increase the effect, maybe set the audio track to no output to hear it easier.
I dont have those presets you have, I am on logic pro 7.
Jord might be right, you my have to try a few things combined to get your sound.
Cheers, Morph

[otek]

It's my experience that most sounds we dream up are inspired by something else we heard.This sound you're describing, have you heard anything similar elsewhere?

Can you post a sound clip of a similar effect, or direct us to one on the internet?

You also should remember that all the guys can do here is help you with the basic technique for achieving something. Only one person can actually get the exact sound that's in your mind, and that person is you.

Taking all the suggestions and dissing them because you don't like the sound of this or that, is hardly very constructive and won't help getting you more advice.


otek

[mattian]

ok, thanks to all, a starting point is hear some sidechain effect between vox and synth, something that seems vox played by synth, if i can hear some preset i've an idea of what can i do with that. second step is find a pleasant way to have a reverse effect on vox.

or maybe what i'm looking for is an envelope/delayed effect, maybe with automation.

in a way i want the vox played by synth, sometimes it changes the pitch, and in the other way i want that vox respond like a mirror to almost every word, or small phrases.

i knew that i'm the one who knows better the effect that i want, so i try.

today i try to copy the vox track and delay it, moving the waveform and try with automation to every words

[jord]

Again, from what I am reading, it sound like two different sounds automated together. In a way, from what I am reading, it sort of seems like a souped-up version of Phil Collins' "In the air tonight" vocal effect in the middle of the song, where he blends a vocoder with vocal track.

However, without know what type of waveform you want to tag with the vox, and how you really want to do things, it's hard to think of something that may help. Otek's post really comes into play here.

jord

[MacGregor]

uhm, ok, but it is possible to control the note? i mean the vox says a word in E and synth plays E

Maybe it's simply TOO obvious, but why don't you just PLAY the matching note with the synthesizer and blend to taste?
I mean, there's a reason for all those black and white keys...

Mac

[jord]

Maybe it's simply TOO obvious, but why don't you just PLAY the matching note with the synthesizer and blend to taste?
I mean, there's a reason for all those black and white keys...

And let's all join in for a round of Ebony & Ivory. :lol:

Mac's spot on... it becomes a problem when people will expend their energy to find a plug-in rather than get their hands dirty. Tools are becoming crutches.

jord

[mattian]

hey men, i say that i try with a delayed track and automation for each words... so this is a fast thing? no hands dirty? please keep out the "common way to say".. i've just tried to explain an effect that i want to achieve and is not so simple to me to explain it.. so if you have something to say about that is great, if you need controversies, is just not this the place.

i've almost understand sidechain, to problem is find a sidechain sound that i like, because i don't like the one in "in the air" of phil collins, i like more sounds like m-tron, some dirty sound - no-robot sounds. and this is a my problem, but the sound synth that i like are not sidechainable.

the other problem is manage the reverse sounds, if you have any tip about that or suggestion, is great, also about cutting an reversing the waveform.. i don't know a plug in that make the exact delay reversed, i have one of audio damage but the first delay is the word not reversed the second is the reversed one, i want just the reversed (and also other plug ins doing that) so if you now a ugly plug in but that it do the exact reverse, it's appreciated. (i mean if you solo the delay you hear the right and than the reverse tail.. i want just tail. and with zero feedback so just one reverse)

probably if you don't understand what i write, is a my fault, because my english is bad, so i understand is difficult, so.. SORRY

thanks to all
bye

[Morph]

Hi mattian,
By M tron, do you mean a mellotron sound? If so, any particular sound of the mellotron? strings, choir?
Cheers, Morph

[mattian]

m-tron yes the plug in of gforce. not any sound, but i mean that you know the sound of mellotron tapes is dirty, i don't like any sound for this effect that i want to obtain, i'm always referred to a organ sound in this post, so i mean an organ or string sound of m-tron just to give an example to with kind of sound i like to blend with vox.

is a good idea to doubling the vox with a synth like that, but the vox have a different harmonization and i want to try with a sidechained one because maybe it catch better all the vox expression in a strange way, that maybe i can modified to my taste.. so it result different to play a synth.

a similar result i can obtain if pre recording we play with synth and vox in a "adaptive way" where vox sing really in the synth and the same for who play the synth, but now i cant do that ;)

[otek]

Mattian,


It's been suggested already that you try with the Audio To Score function in the sample editor.

It has also been suggested that you use a combination of FX and keyboard sounds to achieve your end goal.

Throwing a hissy fit because someone gently points out that we're cycling around on the same question over and over again is hardly a way to garner more support. No one here wants to insult you or spike your wheels, but you have to understand it sometimes gets frustrating also for those trying to help, especially when you are doing your best to shoot the suggestions out of the sky.

Feel free to tell us of your findings when trying the suggestions in the thread, but please do so in a constructive manner.


Thanks,

otek

[otek]

Now, on reversing audio:

Here is a useful link that explains some techniques. (http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?t=2883&highlight=reverse+audio)

Reversing in Logic is done in the sample editor, by selecting a part and hitting ctrl+R. It's also available in the sample editor's "Process" dialog.


otek

[mattian]

hey sorry otek, and to all the others, probably i haven't understand some things. and when i repeat i do that trying to saying in a different way because i think that probably i haven't explain well what i want to say.

sorry for that, men

thanks for link

[HOOK]

just one reverse



In that case I´d suggest you duplicate the track and just reverse the words you want the effect on (delete the others), move it to your liking and set the levels and pan to match it.




HOOK

[mattian]

thanks i've do that, works :)

but only with the start words, than i loop it for the rest of the phrase.

i logic i've lost 10 years and change the automation of 24 tracks without notice.. and all the cut are out of times (damn snap "recognize absolute values" fuck. and thanks because there isn't in logic 7)
in live i've do that in 15 mins all in time, my stomach soft as a velvet.

[jord]

i logic i've lost 10 years and change the automation of 24 tracks without notice.. and all the cut are out of times (damn snap "recognize absolute values" fuck. and thanks because there isn't in logic 7)
in live i've do that in 15 mins all in time, my stomach soft as a velvet.

HUH????

I'll read this tomorrow when I have had my fix of novacaine and nitrous oxide... it may read better. :D

jord