Check this mix?

[nobby]

I have this subtle, mellow little anti-war song whose mix could use a fresh set of ears or two trained on it.

It seems a bit quiet by comparison with other stuff I hear, but I've been reluctant to slap an L1 across the 2 buss, just using about 4 dB GR on Ren Comp electro firm and about 4.5 dB makeup gain...

I like this file attachment uploading thingy, BTW :Thumbsup: :Coolio:

[aframe9999]

ok... i'll take a stab at it... (remember, hack here. I don't like to use big words and trendy technical jargon.... so take anything i have to say with a huge grain.....)

I'm not in love with the slap on the vox. with the closeness of rest of the track, it just seems to be out of place. Drier might just mesh better to me.... plus, it seems like it could come up just a smidge, and the gtrs down a smidge too...

the lead seems much louder than the vox. maybe if the vox was about that same level, you'd be about right....

You really did get that comp smokin, huh?

OK....So how's that for an in depth mix critique?

Dig the tune tho, Nobby... I really like the raw vibe...

AF

[nobby]

I'm not in love with the slap on the vox. with the closeness of rest of the track, it just seems to be out of place. Drier might just mesh better to me....
That would be easy to change, however...

Do you ever listen to songs that use slap on the vox? The reason I'm asking, is that there are entire sib-genres in which it wouldn't even be considered. It has been frequently used in Classic Rock, and to almost absurd extremes in Reggae. In those cases, what are you going to do to match it up with the rest of the trax? Put slap on the drums, bass guitar, rhythm guitar, keyboard? If it was 1956 I guess you would :grin:

Check out this song by Archtop. A ton of slap on the vox, room sound on drums, etc. Now I'm in trouble :grin:
http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?t=179

plus, it seems like it could come up just a smidge, and the gtrs down a smidge too...

If I bring the slap to a more subtle level I'd bring up the vox. Again, I get a bit confused because of different sub-genres or production styles in Metal over the years. I usually think if I can make out the words clearly, that's okay sisnce I hear mixes where the vox are buried completely. I'm not talking about amateur AE's work either necessarily. Some like the vox way up in the mix. Part of the challenge is that my monitoring situation leaves something to be desired as far as making small changes. I've been meaning to hook up a boom box to check mixes on before I burn a CD, that would probably help.

the lead seems much louder than the vox. maybe if the vox was about that same level, you'd be about right....

I should probably ride the fader on the lead parts. I had done that on earlier mixes but I didn't on this one.

You really did get that comp smokin, huh?
I dunno... I've been mostly putting comp on the tracks that need it most before the 2 bus. That's where I've been putting the heavier GR.

Dig the tune tho, Nobby... I really like the raw vibe...
AF

Thanks, and thanks for listening and commenting.

[dikledoux]

There seems to be a lot of build up around 120 -180. If you'd carve some of that out, the overall track would be immediately more aggressive in line with (I think) the intended sound of the guitars and the guitars would come forward. Also, is there a reason for the lead voc to be off-center? There's nothing to balance it out on the other side, so put that mofo right up center.

If you lose some of that low mid, you could bury the lead vocal a tiny bit and give the overall song a louder "feel". The lead vocal also seems to be cleaner than it should... maybe trash it up some. Maybe it's just too relaxed a performance for the song. Should it be more gritty, frustrated, angry, growly? (I realize that's a performance comment, not a mix comment)

Hope that helps,

dik

[archtop]

I think the mix is pretty good.
Nice raw midhappy guitars

The slap on the vox doesn't bother me, heck I might even make it longer :)

There might be a pinch too much lows (100 -150) on the
kick and bass, but not a deal breaker.
I like solos hot. Seems fine

[nobby]

Thanks guys. I thought there might be EQ issues. I had boosted the bass guitar @ 200Hz while cutting it at 375. Maybe a bit too ham handed. I had also tried to make the smallish rack toms a bit bigger with some boost down there. I'll tamper with it some more.

I'll try focusing the vox a bit also. I'll save these settings also, because sometimes things get worse after I Improve them :Wink:

[Scratchy Potts]

I like this!!..but for me the Bass could come down a tad
i think it sounds to big,this would make it feel more powerful!
also the snare`s a bit floppy for this??
like the vocals but they need to be lifted a db or two
and i would prefer them dryer..vocal sounds a cross between Ian Anderson and Warren Zevon....thats ,,,:Coolio:
Oh!!!...amd the lead guitar break`s to loud the giutarist sounds about twenty feet in front of the band.

cool tune though!!...:Thumbsup:

[nobby]

I like this!!..but for me the Bass could come down a tad
i think it sounds to big,this would make it feel more powerful!
also the snare`s a bit floppy for this??
like the vocals but they need to be lifted a db or two
and i would prefer them dryer..vocal sounds a cross between Ian Anderson and Warren Zevon....thats ,,,:Coolio:
Oh!!!...amd the lead guitar break`s to loud the giutarist sounds about twenty feet in front of the band.

cool tune though!!...:Thumbsup:

Thanks, Scratchy. Yeah, I had been thinking the bass is too much. I was going to listen to it in my car on the way to the store yesterday. I had left it home though so I reached in my visor caddy and took out Led Zep 2. Bass guitar on that record was present without punching you in the face. Lead guitar on Zep is sort of in your face, but so were the vox. I'll try to balance out the vox/ lead guitar a bit better.

As for wetter/ dryer vox, I think it would probably work both ways and is largely a matter of taste.

[ajcamlet]

cool tune..


are you using Stereo OH's and a room on the drums?

[aframe9999]

:Thumbsup:Gave another listen again today... I guess my origianl comment about the slap wasn't so much that i didn't like the slap in general. More of just that the way it was set up seemed too wet for me. re-listening to the Carlo/Archtop link again, i see what you're saying. But that track has a slower delay and it return is much more subtle, to my ears.

Which i guess is much more in line with what i was thinking orginally. just less return maybe.

But ultimately, it kinds of boils down to personal preference anyway, huh? That's the beauty of what we all do. There's certainly some definate wrong answers, but there's lots of different 'right' ones too....

Still really dig the song!:Thumbsup: :Thumbsup:

[nobby]

:Thumbsup:Gave another listen again today... I guess my origianl comment about the slap wasn't so much that i didn't like the slap in general. More of just that the way it was set up seemed too wet for me. re-listening to the Carlo/Archtop link again, i see what you're saying. But that track has a slower delay and it return is much more subtle, to my ears.

Which i guess is much more in line with what i was thinking orginally. just less return maybe.

"Drown" had a slower tempo. The other thing is that the vox were more on top. Plus Archtop knows more what he's doing :very happy:

Once you introduce distorted guitars into the mix, because of the frequency range and sustain, they seem to like to agressively compete with the vox, and it also seems to me that the guitars want to mask the delay... you hear mostly the tail.


Still really dig the song!:Thumbsup: :Thumbsup:

Thanx :Coolio:

[nobby]

cool tune..


are you using Stereo OH's and a room on the drums?

That's mostly what the sound is coming from. Also a spot mic on the snare and a mic in the kik.

I had also close mic'd the toms, but those tracks didn't sound good so I burned 'em.

[nobby]

Alrighty. This is another mix.

I think the excess low freq info that Arch and Dik were referring to came from my adding 200 Hz on the bass guitar and 100 on the drums mix. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

I eliminated that on the bass and cut back on the drums mix.

I also centered the vox and pulled down the second lead guitar part a bit.

[nobby]

Here's another mix. Tha slap isn't in your face, no pun intended :lol: but more to "reinforce" the lead vox. Also slower, 250 ms.

[nobby]

Hmmm.... linky no post. Let's try again.

[aframe9999]

sounds really good, me thinks.... the delay on vox is much more in line with what i was thinking originally. At least in my opinion. (whatver that's worth...LOL)

the lead doesnt jump out as much either... much better to my ears.

cool, Nobby

[Scratchy Potts]

:Thumbsup: Thats sounding better nob!!
the vocal sits better,still think the Vox could come up a tad!!
i dont know if it`s just me?? ...but the kit sounds a wee bit lazy
i just feel it could be tighter? the snare seems late?

the lead Guitar sits better too!
i would like to hear more air on it(the lead that is) ,,,a little more spaced out
some delay or summink?? ya know!!,,, sorta trippy??......:Coolio:
starting to realy like this..even though it`s not my type of stuff!

second thoughts !!..get that fuckin vocal in my face!!!
ya trying to say something...so fuckin spit the fucka out!!!!!

Oooooooo!!!:icon_eek: I feel all flustered now!

[Mixerman]

I have this subtle, mellow little anti-war song whose mix could use a fresh set of ears or two trained on it.

It seems a bit quiet by comparison with other stuff I hear, but I've been reluctant to slap an L1 across the 2 buss, just using about 4 dB GR on Ren Comp electro firm and about 4.5 dB makeup gain...

I like this file attachment uploading thingy, BTW :Thumbsup: :Coolio:

Sounds drum heavy to me. The drum compressors are obviously breathing, which I don't mind at all. But the cymbals don't have the same "beef" that the rest of the drums too. Maybe I'm just noticing them because the guitars seem so low.

I think the slap vocal is fine, but the vocal is definitely off-center (leaning to the right). I feel it always weakens a mix to have the lead vocal not exactly in the center.

Turn up the guitars. Center the vocal. Make it so the drum overheads don't stick out so much.

Mixerman

[nobby]

Sounds drum heavy to me. The drum compressors are obviously breathing, which I don't mind at all. But the cymbals don't have the same "beef" that the rest of the drums too. Maybe I'm just noticing them because the guitars seem so low.

I think the slap vocal is fine, but the vocal is definitely off-center (leaning to the right). I feel it always weakens a mix to have the lead vocal not exactly in the center.

Turn up the guitars. Center the vocal. Make it so the drum overheads don't stick out so much.

Mixerman

I had centered the vox in the later mixes. I had loaded in a "scene" without noticing they it wasn't panned center until it was mentioned. My bad for not noticing. I'll try the drums and guitar changes on the next mix.

[nobby]

Sounds drum heavy to me. The drum compressors are obviously breathing, which I don't mind at all. But the cymbals don't have the same "beef" that the rest of the drums too. Maybe I'm just noticing them because the guitars seem so low.

I think the slap vocal is fine, but the vocal is definitely off-center (leaning to the right). I feel it always weakens a mix to have the lead vocal not exactly in the center.

Turn up the guitars. Center the vocal. Make it so the drum overheads don't stick out so much.

Mixerman

I centered the vox on the last mix.

I turned up the guitars. Which required me to turn up the vox. Then turn up the vox again. I did a new drums mix with a bit more room to o'heads ratio.

I hope I made it better and not worse. I probably should have just turned down the drums, but what fun would that be?

[link removed for the sake of humanity]

[Mixerman]

Jesus. I've seen guitar.

Yeah, those are a bit loud now.

Turn down the guitars!
Right now!
Hurry!
Don't wait!

Guitars very loud!

You have my instructions. Go forth and turn down guitars.

Mixerman

[nobby]

Mixerman:
Turn up the guitars.



Turn down the guitars!


Make up your mind, will ya?


Sheesh, it was only, like a few dB.
I'll have another mix up later.

Picky picky picky!!

[nobby]

Alrighty. This wound up being about halfway between the two previous mixes. I had previously raised the guitars about 1.4 dB, this time I lowered them about 0.7.

Is the bass guitar high enough?

Trouble 011507 (http://www.theconveyors.com/audio/THE_CONVEYORS-Trouble011507.m3u)

[Cosmic Pig]

Good tune Nobby... it could be better tho. It sounds like the trouble is the guitar sound rather than the volume. They sound far away like you mic'd the cabinet way out in the room. Something I do is jam a 57 so close that the speaker is almost hitting the mic on bass notes, I find it puts the sound energy more in yo face and is easier to manipulate with room verbs or whatever.

Listening on computer speakers with a crappy sub so don't take it too serious, but the kick sound a little low woofy. Vox are too loud, or maybe too heavy in a mid freq?

The overall is kinda basement live sounding, which is cool, but I don't think you got the room verb quite right, assuming it was added after the fact.

Anyway... if I get a chance later I'll put it on the monitors. I wouldn't mix on these crappy comp speakers but they're pretty sensitive to mix problems. They're my NS10. But really don't take my thoughts too serious.

Cos.

[nobby]

Good tune Nobby... it could be better tho. It sounds like the trouble is the guitar sound rather than the volume. They sound far away like you mic'd the cabinet way out in the room. Something I do is jam a 57 so close that the speaker is almost hitting the mic on bass notes, I find it puts the sound energy more in yo face and is easier to manipulate with room verbs or whatever.

They were close mic'd. An inch, tops, in a dryish room. There are 2 pair of rhythm guitar tracks, two are high in the mix, and the other two are low. No 'verb added.

Listening on computer speakers with a crappy sub so don't take it too serious, but the kick sound a little low woofy. Vox are too loud, or maybe too heavy in a mid freq?

I had raised the vox before, and left them up when I lowered the guitars. I wanted to see if anyone complained before I turned them down since some seem to like them higher in the mix. The kik in the overheads and room mic has a lot of skin sound (I used a wooden beater to get "click") and I dialed in the inside kik drum which is processed to sound like a typical pop kik.

The overall is kinda basement live sounding, which is cool, but I don't think you got the room verb quite right, assuming it was added after the fact.

It's a living room not a basement, fer crying out loud! :grin: There's no room 'verb. There's a little slap and an tiny amount of hall verb on the vox, that's it. The room sound you're hearing is the room.

I've been meaning to get a cheap boom box with rca inputs. Shitty speakers are great for pointing out midrange problems, and nothing can out-shitty stock computer speakers. I don't have any set up here, though.

One thing I noticed that's a bit annoying while listening in my car is this low mid ju juju of the pick on the strings during the first lead which starts around 2:40. I meant to roll off the bottom on that.

[Cosmic Pig]

Hey Nobby forget everything I said. My kid screwed around with my soundcard and turned on some wierd surround thing. It ocurred to me something was up when everything sounded like ambient mics in a basement.

Ah well... there's probably a lesson here somewhere...

Cos.

[Mixerman]

Alrighty. This wound up being about halfway between the two previous mixes. I had previously raised the guitars about 1.4 dB, this time I lowered them about 0.7.

Is the bass guitar high enough?

Trouble 011507 (http://www.theconveyors.com/audio/THE_CONVEYORS-Trouble011507.m3u)


Those guitars sound like they are way louder than 0.7db up from the original right now. Bring them down to what you believe is the original level and let's check that out.

They're still too loud, and they are definitely too low in the original.

You can also try bringing down the overheads 1db or so.

Mixerman

[nobby]

I could swear this is the level the guitars originally were, but they sound louder. there are 2 other rhythm guitar tracks but they're quite a bit lower in the mix so I haven't been changing them.

I brought the overheads down a little. The're very low when I solo them, and I can only feel somethings missing if I mute them when listening to the new drums mix. Leaning heavily on the room mic now, with some close snare and kik. The mix is pretty much mono now except for the guitars, but that's fine, some of my favorite records are done that way.

[Link euthanized, see post below]

[nobby]

Geezis F. Kryste

I was listening to
the last mix, and It raised 2 questions that have plagued humanity since the dawn of our species.

Caveman, referring to a wooly mammoth:

"How come it's so loud, and how come it sounds so horrible?"

Cave chick: "Because you stuck a spear in it, dumb ass!"

Normally, in spite of not having the best facilities and all the best gear, when my mixes sound really bad, it's almost entirely my fault.

But my Ren Comp used to behave more or less like an analog compressor. If the VU on the 2 bus said -2 dB, that's what was coming in. to get it to compress, you'd have to lower the threshold. Then, like an analog compressor, you'd add some makeup gain, and it would get louder.

Now, if the 2 bus VU says -2 dB, the input of the ren comp says 0 dB no matter what, and adding makeup gain acts like lowering the threshold. Every dB of makeup gain I add = another dB compression :Razz:

So, I was listening to the above file (I gotta take it down) in my car, on a walkman, and saying to myself, geez, this is almost as loud as the radio, and it sounds like shit!

This file is getting about 1.7 dB GR on the 2 bus, as opposed to 3.7 on the last one.

Trouble 011807 (http://www.theconveyors.com/audio/ACHILLES-Trouble011807.m3u)

[nobby]

Alrighty. Rudely interrupted by my pesky day job.

I was listening to this, and the guitars seemed still a bit too high, and the drums seemed to lack definition, so I lowered the guitars about a half dB and the GR on the drums mix comp by 2 dB.

This will never be a stellar mix, but hopefully this is decent enough to send to the ME, as I have other fish to fry.

Trouble 012507 (http://www.theconveyors.com/audio/ACHILLES-Trouble012507.m3u)