Film Scores

[since 1982]

I have been working on a short film for an up and coming film producer/director friend. For a credit i have been working on the film score for his new short. I would say the score is in the same vain as David Lynch's Inland Empire lots of sound scape work and low end rumble and strings (also think warp records Autechre, AFX etc). Inland Empire the film score really inspires me, most of the music was scored by a famous polish composer Krzysztof Penderecki who also wrote Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima which is seriously haunting

http://www.amazon.com/Penderecki-Ana.../dp/B000002S5H

I have also been listening alot to Ennio Morricone and philip glass, Vangelis especially the film score for Blade Runner which i saw again re-mastered on a huge cinema screen in one of the top notch cinema surround pa's .... anyways rant rant.

I would love to hear from other fim score/sountrack boffs out there either in the business or just passionate listeners, let me know what inspires you and perhaps if relevant how you got into composing etc.

Got to grab inspiration when you can.

Thanks

R

[eagan]

Not in film scoring.

As a listener...

What I appreciate as a quality more than anything in film scores; somebody who knows when to stay out of the fucking way.

Personal favorites: James Horner, James Newton Howard, Thomas Newman....


JLE

[since 1982]

Nice one Eagan i will check them out.

[Tim Halligan]

+1 on James Newton Howard...

I quite like Danny Elfman's work.

Marco Beltrami has done some good stuff...as has Mark Isham, but some of the films sucked.

A score can only be as good as the film will let it be...a brilliant score in a dog of a movie is no help to the film at all...it just points out how bad the film really is.

A good score should almost be unnoticed as a seperate item in the mix.

What sucks is when score and effects compete for the same space...it's the fastest way to turn a film soundtrack into mush.

Cheers,
Tim

[since 1982]

A good score should almost be unnoticed as a seperate item in the mix.

What sucks is when score and effects compete for the same space...it's the fastest way to turn a film soundtrack into mush.

I'm with you on this one Tim.

[since 1982]

Which artist/group would you give the honour of composing to your film?

[chckn8r]

I like to see composers who are able to convince directors to let them get out of their typecast vein and do a good job of it.

Michael Giacchino (known for Alias & Lost) did a great job on The Incredibles and Ratatouille.

John Williams did an awesome job on Catch Me If You Can - totally deviating away from the big honkin' orchestral scores and doing a jazz score - he apparently wrote out every note for the solos on that too.

I also like what John Powell's work - Love what he did in Robots (total mish-mash of styles) and then turns around and does X-Men - Last Stand.

I'm with Tim - like what Danny Elfman has done. Very few pop/rock musicians can make the transition to scoring for film (Trevor Rabin is another, although he's a bit more "reclusive" than Danny) - he's definitely got a "sound" some people love and some people hate, but he's able to do a lot of cool things that work with the films - love what he did on Willy Wonka.

Cheers, D

[eagan]

Very few pop/rock musicians can make the transition to scoring for film (Trevor Rabin is another, although he's a bit more "reclusive" than Danny) -

You know, after looking at this thread I was thinking about Trevor Rabin for a minute. Great, extremely talented, extremely capable musician, one of those guys who seem like they can probably do just about anything. But what I've heard of him in doing film soundtracks I thought has really sucked. It's possible that if I had a chance to sit and listen to the music by itself it would be decent music, but there's the tricky bit in this stuff. It's not about the music standing by itself, it's about fitting a role in a larger thing. It's not about just throwing music in there in a big pile until it's full.

On the other hand, a "pop/rock" guy who has done a little better is Randy Newman. Back in the eighties I spent a couple years or so as a film projectionist. One of the movies I had soaked into my brain during that period was The Natural. Randy Newman did the music for that, and I was really impressed. I thought he just nailed it. It was perfect.


JLE

[chckn8r]

You know, after looking at this thread I was thinking about Trevor Rabin for a minute. Great, extremely talented, extremely capable musician, one of those guys who seem like they can probably do just about anything. But what I've heard of him in doing film soundtracks I thought has really sucked.

Yeah, nothing really stands out from his stuff. I thought the tunes he wrote for Rock Star were pretty cool, but that's getting back into his old comfortable zone isn't it? :lol:

I would love to hear from other fim score/sountrack boffs out there either in the business or just passionate listeners, let me know what inspires you and perhaps if relevant how you got into composing etc.


Missed this bit on the original thread - What got me into all this is I actually enjoy all the different hats I gotta wear to make a go at this: business marketing, contract negotiation, technical support, networking, audio engineer, producer and, oh yeah, composer.

From a musical sense, what inspires me is whatever the director is looking for. I personally like it when a director / producer puts in a temp track - it gives me a more focused idea to grab that gives me insight into what sound/style the director is looking for. I DO hate it though when they've lived with the temp score for months and get married to it - then you're sort of stuck with trying to directly copp what's there.

But regardless, I'll immerse myself in certain styles/genres for weeks (if I've got the luxury of time in the schedule) to get ideas and inspiration before writing a note. In film / TV scoring, it really comes down to being flexible and adaptable to a whole bunch o' situations.

Not implying that you're like this, but I've seen too many people try to get into this business with visions of grandeur believing that it's an easy gig. They naively think: "I'm the music 'expert' on the crew and I'm going to imprint my own style / stamp on the score" - but what they forget is that they've got a customer to please and in the end, he or she is always right. There are negotiations and communication tricks that you can employ to convince them of things that may not work with their direction, but really, in the end, you gotta make sure that they're happy...

Cheers!

D

[Tim Halligan]

Oh yeah...


Bear McReary for Battlestar Galactica.

Services all the needs of a TV drama score and fuses all kinds of ethnic music genres in a way that doesn't ever sound forced...and he makes it sound easy...which it definitely isn't.


Cheers,
Tim

[chckn8r]

Services all the needs of a TV drama score and fuses all kinds of ethnic music genres in a way that doesn't ever sound forced...and he makes it sound easy...which it definitely isn't.

Yeah! Really cool stuff he's doing there - not much melodic content, but he's great at setting a unique mood with what seems like very little texture - drums and odd techniques on organic instruments. :Thumbsup:

Seems as though the producers actually get him to score each episode which is a nice change.

I got through season 3 of Lost in a couple of weeks last summer and got real bored of that soundtrack quick - they probably got Michael Giacchino to provide a library of stuff in Season I and they keep using it throughout which isn't uncommon, but starts to get old quickly... :Sad:

[Bob Olhsson]

I think it's pretty important for folks to realize how fast scores generally need to be created.

[chckn8r]

I think it's pretty important for folks to realize how fast scores generally need to be created.

Definitely!

A-list composers for feature films (if they're lucky) sometimes get two (maybe three if they're real lucky) months to write, arrange, orchestrate and record a score. It's usually more like 4-6 weeks, but getting shorter and shorter every year.

(Take for instance James Newton Howard - he had six weeks 'til the PREMIERE of King Kong to write a score for full orchestra after Peter Jackson canned Howard Shore...)

If they're doing a TV series on a major network, they're usually called upon to turn 20-25 minutes of music (for an hour-long show) around in 3-4 days - every week...

-- D

[since 1982]

I think it's pretty important for folks to realize how fast scores generally need to be created.

(Take for instance James Newton Howard - he had six weeks 'til the PREMIERE of King Kong to write a score for full orchestra after Peter Jackson canned Howard Shore...)

Howard must have worked with some already scored material before hand. Working from scratch on an original score of this size to be completed in 5-6 weeks i'm a little shocked by this.

R

[jerryskid]

Let us not forget Randy Newman, who definitely knows how to stay out of the way........he's always good for a great score....

[chckn8r]

Howard must have worked with some already scored material before hand. Working from scratch on an original score of this size to be completed in 5-6 weeks.

Yeah, I'm sure he had to dig into his bag o' tricks and depend a lot on his orchestrator(s) to fill in holes, but sheesh! A major motion picture in - well let's assume at least a week and a half for distribution, printing and mix-down - probably what ended up being about four weeks - that's just plain nuts!

[Strat+AC30]

I was a big film score buff several years ago, and being drawn to those utterly bombastic type scores I loved David Arnold's work. I especially thought his work on the James Bond series (Tomorrow Never Dies up through the current Daniel Craig one) was brilliant. He kept a lot of the familiar themes from John Barry's day while bringing in all sorts of other influences, notably 90s electronica. Very good job walking the line between old and new, which has to be tough for a series with that much history to it...

[Bob Olhsson]

I'm told a week or two is not uncommon at all.

And yes, some of these folks really are that good and that fast.

I had no idea until I started working in post during the '90s.

[Unfcknblvbl]

I liked what Mark Knopfler did on The Princess Bride.
Elfman is usually entertaining although I find when I listen to his scores back-to-back, he seems to repeat himself.

[Baddo]

I love Ryuichi Sakamoto's work.
Other influences are Rabin, and of course Williams. There's a new guy (at least to me) around called Steve Jablonsky; I enjoy his work too.

[since 1982]

Yes Baddo Ryuichi Sakamoto's amazing check out this link let me know what you think.

http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=9516

[Baddo]

Wow, I had no idea about this. I really liked it. From the samples I really liked Uoon II. I need to get this!

I have an old CD called "Piano One", there's a version in there of the theme from "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence" played by Sakamoto on piano, no other instruments, and it's just beautiful. Miles ahead from the version on his "Cinemage" album.

[Bonnybilly]

Hey,

I've done a few soundtracks and I would love to do more of it.

My main influences are Sakamoto - especially his score from Tony Takatini (the murakami adaptation) and the piece at the end of Babel, unbelievable. Everything by Gustavo Santaolalla is amazing. Also morricone rules, I love danger diobolik and once upon a time in the west. I also adore the music from Twin peaks.

I love composing for film, the possibilities seem endless.

[since 1982]

Graet stuff bonny billy and baddo i,ve been looking into peeps like fennesz http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=42820&highlight=42833

and david sylvian aka japan aka babel soundtrack really nice work brillaint http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=18726

have a look around the boomkat web site it seems great for electronic music and IDM.

R

[since 1982]

This is great

sakamoto and fennesz together perfect collaboration

http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=33897

to me Harold Budd is the master

http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=18100

along with Arvo Part

http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=22854

enjoy

[Bonnybilly]

Awesome, will check these out.

Avro Part - Tabula Rasa....it's fucking outstanding. Huge descending tragic chamber music. Same vibe as Godspeed You Black Emperor. Love it.

You got any music that you have created for me to hear with or without picture?

best.

[since 1982]

Oh man i forgot about GSYBE i went to see siver mt zion a few years back in a dirty dive/dungeon in Manc, 30 people in crowd, they blew me away.

[since 1982]

I will put a track up when its complete bonny prince billy :grin:

[Bonnybilly]

I was GSYBE a good few times in Glasgow...I also saw Silver Mt Zion whom I also love.

What software do you use for writing? I'm stuck with PT at the mo cause most of the stuff I do is recording bands but I REALLY want to get into logic, I'm sick of PT.

Also how do you set about getting an idea down? Use piano? guitar? synth? whatever?

I like to sit with an guitar in an open tuning or piano just to get some sweet chords and build from there. The guitar or piano may never feature in the piece but i like to use something 'real' to set me up.

Best.

BonnyBilly is my real name :Wink:

[since 1982]

For writing scores and sync'd to image i use Nuendo as im familiar with the visual editor and have a more suitable pot of plugs for film work.

Really it depends 70% i formulate an idea with guitar or a piano plug/synth then get stuck in from there recording the parts i've worked on so then i have all the parts multitracked so im able to work with the arrangements etc. Ive never collaborated before on my own work perhaps this is the way to go as i seem to be taking a llllllllllllllloooooooooooonnnng time to get my self started. Working with live sound i,m constantly inspired to get recording again but never have the time.

R

[since 1982]

For writing scores and sync'd to image i use Nuendo as im familiar with the visual editor and have a more suitable pot of plugs for film work.

Really it depends 70% i formulate an idea with guitar or a piano plug/synth then get stuck in from there recording the parts i've worked on so then i have all the parts multitracked so im able to work with the arrangements etc. Ive never collaborated before on my own work perhaps this is the way to go as i seem to be taking a llllllllllllllloooooooooooonnnng time to get my self started. Working with live sound i,m constantly inspired to get recording again but never have the time.

Im originally from aberdeen but spent most of my time in scotland in edinburgh and although its a stunning city glasgow kicks its ass for music and art spent many a smashed night at the arches. :Wink:
R

[Bonnybilly]

Nuendo is probably the way to go but Logic just seems like a steal
price wise at the moment.

What is the film you are working on at the moment about?

I like Glasgow but I really want to move away to New York or Chicago for a while as I've lived here all my life.

Why did you move to London?

Best.

[chckn8r]

Nuendo is probably the way to go but Logic just seems like a steal price wise at the moment.

I just jumped onto Logic a couple months ago - so far so good. I used to use Sonar/PC combo, but a whole bunch o' things started going south in the studio (audio interfaces, main computer) and the price of Logic just seemed so compelling that I took the bait and switched over. I've been wanting to move to a Mac, but I had a lot invested on the PC side and couldn't really justify moving over until now.

Been a bit of a learning curve, but all in all, I'm liking it.

From the community over on this side of the pond, seems as though a majority of Mac-based film composers are on Logic. Some of the ones who have been around the block a bit more times are still on Digital Performer, but in the end, whatever you're comfortable with and gets you good results - stick with it.

Cheers, D

[Bonnybilly]

Sounds good. I'm MAC based anyway so I've nothing to lose.

What interface do you use with logic?

I'm thinking maybe the 2 channel apogee thing.

Best.

hey tried to check out your hatched productions site but comes up server problems.

[chckn8r]

I'm using the PreSonus FP10 - don't really have use for all the inputs all the time, but sometimes need something to capture more than 2.

Right now, mostly everything I do is "in the box" - soft synths / samplers or digital I/O...

I dunno what's going on with the site - it's been a bit wonky the past couple of days, but thanks for checking (trying) it out tho! :)

Cheers, D