Presonus preamp

[ggunn]

I rented a Presonus ADL-600 just to see what the fuss was about, and I used it to record a session in my studio last night with a couple of ambient mics. I haven't had a chance yet to A/B that recording with another one done with the same mics into the mic channels of my digi001, but upon first listen it seems to have made quite a difference in being able to hear down into the mix and get more definition out of the individual instruments and vocals.

But it's (ouch) $2000 for that box. Is there another lower cost mic pre that will give me the same, or something approaching the same, benefit? More bang-for-buck, as it were?

[otek]

Well, the ADL, at around a grand per channel, will be counted among the "high-end" alternatives. I don't know this particular unit a lot, but I am sure it has its own flavor, and if you liked that flavor it's hard to recommend something else.

It's not necessarily about the price, either. You may prefer this unit to, say, a Fearn VT-2, which is almost twice as much.

Let's start with the tweakability aspect. Did you experiment much with the controls on the ADL, and if so, how did you like what they did for the sound?

Is that tweakability important to you?

[volthause]

API and Great River come in just shy of 1K per channel. I'd dump bux on that anyday before Presonus... although I've heard zip about this particular pre, so don't listen to a word I just said.

edit: whoops, spoke too soon. the mp2-nv comes in just over 1K / channel. still a nice pre.

[ggunn]

Well, the ADL, at around a grand per channel, will be counted among the "high-end" alternatives. I don't know this particular unit a lot, but I am sure it has its own flavor, and if you liked that flavor it's hard to recommend something else.

It's not necessarily about the price, either. You may prefer this unit to, say, a Fearn VT-2, which is almost twice as much.

Let's start with the tweakability aspect. Did you experiment much with the controls on the ADL, and if so, how did you like what they did for the sound?

Is that tweakability important to you?

Not at this point; I am a rank novice at dealing with preamps. What it does have is clickable gain in 5dB jumps (plus a +/- 10dB sweep), a simple filter, polarity flip, and impedance matching on the mic input. The user's guide is minimal, and it says that the impedance changes change the "character" of the mic signal, but I don't know what that means.

This is the first high end preamp that I have ever had my hands on, and the only one that I can rent to experiment with, hence my question of how it stacks up to others in the performance/price arena. I've only had it for a couple of days.

Educate me. What's the diff between a preamp like this and a "normal" board channel preamp in terms of what it is doing to the signal? I can hear a difference, but exactly what is it that I am hearing? What makes it worth $1K/channel?

[otek]

The user's guide is minimal, and it says that the impedance changes change the "character" of the mic signal, but I don't know what that means.

Microphones have different output impedance. Some mics, particularly older transformerless types, have a notoriously low output impedance. Typically, mic pres tend to perform a little worse sonically with low impedance mics, so many manufacturers have installed a switch to better match the preamp to those mics. This switch will cause changes in the sonic characteristic of most mics - ranging from barely audible to fairly obvious. So this switch can be used to give a sonic flavor that works with what you're recording.

What's the diff between a preamp like this and a "normal" board channel preamp in terms of what it is doing to the signal? I can hear a difference, but exactly what is it that I am hearing? What makes it worth $1K/channel?

Disregarding for a moment that I don't know what you'd consider a "normal" board preamp.... :Wink:

That is a near impossible question to answer, and especially if you want me to come up with a good "sales pitch" for world-class preamps. I'd feel equally put on the spot if I were called upon to describe what separates a stock, entry-level Epiphone from a 1959 Gibson Les Paul.

Provided both axes are optimally adjusted, both can be made to feel and play nicely, but the sound will likely be drastically different. Some parts of these sonic differences are quantifiable by measurement and comparative adjectives, but some of it is just.... Mojo. I'll let you guess which guitar would win out for most players.

Is this mojo worth the extra 40,000+ dollars* ? That's something only you as a buyer can answer.

And yes, with a preamp the sheer collectibility factor wouldn't even be close for the most part, but let's ignore that for the purpose of my analogy.


Cheers,

otek




* not sure what the going rate is for a '59 'burst these days...

[ggunn]

I guess what I am really asking is what is different about the signal that comes out of one versus the other. With the high dollar pre is the output more...um, say, nimble, in the sense that the output electronic waveform more accurately tracks the vibrations in the air in front of the microphone?

Mojo in a guitar I understand (I play a '61 Strat), but in a preamp, I am more interested in the quantifiable.

[otek]

I guess what I am really asking is what is different about the signal that comes out of one versus the other...... in a preamp, I am more interested in the quantifiable.

I understand, but I am still telling you it's fairly hard to come up with the quantifiable.

Is it less distortion? Not always, some cheapo console pres have much lower distortion figures than many exclusive tube pres.

Is it a more linear frequency response? Not necessarily that, either. A lot of very coveted preamps have a very pronounced sonic signature.

If you look at published specs for most preamps today, you won't see much of a difference. If you try the old nonsense test designed to lure schmucks at trade shows - putting two preamps next to each other and polarity reversing one to hear the signal magically disappear, the idea being that a complete phase-out would indicate the preamps sounded exactly alike - you would find that even putting something like a B**ringer next to, say, an API, would cause an almost 100% cancellation. Yet they sound nothing alike when compared side by side in normal usage.

You've already made the best quantifiable case for yourself in your first post: You thought it sounded better. Perhaps even way better.

The next question will be, what flavor of preamp would be the most useful in your case? There are many great pres, and all of them have their own special flavor. The ADL is a tube pre, and maybe that gives it a certain flavor you like. The best thing you can do is rent a couple of different pres and see if they work better or worse. That way, you start developing a "taste" for what you like and don't like, and perhaps also whether a cheaper preamp will still give you the Mojo.

With the high dollar pre is the output more...um, say, nimble, in the sense that the output electronic waveform more accurately tracks the vibrations in the air in front of the microphone?

I chose to edit in this quote, because it does make my point for me. Accuracy ain't why you're playing a 45 year old guitar.


Cheers,

otek

[Knastratt]

You pay for Mojo (I call it oomph-factor), you get Mojo. You totally WANT Mojo. Except for those moments you don't.