Microphonic dilemma!

[Knastratt]

Hi guys!

I'm asked to record a small barber-shop type, male, 8-piece choir. The problem is I don't have a nice stereo pair of microphones (only tracking vocals and dist guit over here).

Here are the conditions:

1) I don't have a possibility to rent. Period.

2) I'll have like 700 USD that would buy me two Sontronics STC-1 or Line CM-3 (Swedih mic. Know nada about.).

3) I have a Brauner Valvet, (which hasn't got figure 8 so Blumlein goes away!) :-(, and an Equitek CAD E-100.

4) It's NOT a major release. (Hey, I live in the woods!)

So - do I get two cheap SDC OR do I try the Brauner/CAD solution?

The Konnekt 24 will be the pres/converters.

Be well - Pär

In a fair world I'd have the money to get another Brauner Valvet and another AMEK CIB. Evil!

[otek]

When?


Maybe we can work something out.

PM me.


otek

[Tim Armstrong]

While I love being an enabler when it comes to buying gear, have you considered recording them in mono? Maybe double the track, pan them wide and eq each side just enough to pull the bass voices a little to the left and the tenor voices right, with the baritones right there in the middle...

Just asking!

Cheers, Tim (a hack with a home studio)

edit: on further thought, just ignore the above and borrow from Otek or buy some mics. I really AM a hack!

[Knastratt]

Thanks guys. I have considered mono.

Hey mighty O - that's a generous offer. Maybe it's the way to go.

It's not a plan yet. Merely a suggestion from me to one member. I just got an urge and a wish to record a choir. In a church. With my newly assembled mobile rig.

Thx for replies.

[otek]

Actually, Tim's idea is not bad, though there are two possible problems, one being the time reference, the other if they want to keep the "8 dudes in a room" sound as natural as possible.

I often overdub choirs to get a little more girth, but mostly this is within an ensemble context, where there are "band" tracks to reference to.

[Tim Armstrong]

Actually, I meant record it live in mono, then copy the track so you'd have two identical tracks. Then "reprocess for stereo" as it were...

A little bit of subtractive E.Q. (a little bit of lowpass on one, a little bit of highpass on the other, just enough to pull the lower frequencies one way and the highs the other)...

I've done similar things with guitar tracks in the past to get a little bit of space, but have no idea if this would be a keeper idea in this situation. I just like to post! :icon_eek: :lol: :D

Cheers, Tim

[otek]

Actually, I meant record it live in mono, then copy the track so you'd have two identical tracks. Then "reprocess for stereo" as it were...

Ok Tim, I see now what you mean.

The problem with this technique is, if you don't delay one of the tracks you will have it mostly sitting in mono anyway. If on the other had you do delay the tracks, you will probably have a hard time maintaining the natural "acoustic" sound that an unaccompanied choir will needs most of the time. I find the copy/delay trick makes things sound fairly synthetic.

A little bit of subtractive E.Q. (a little bit of lowpass on one, a little bit of highpass on the other, just enough to pull the lower frequencies one way and the highs the other)...

Again I see what you're saying, and you may get away with this for a guitar track inside of a mix framework (especially if you delay one side), but for an A Capella choir, the tiny bit of psychoacoustic help you get from the different EQs (if any) will cause a proportional amount of phase/imaging weirdness, and of course it will only be noticeable if you are in the absolute sweet spot.

If one mic is the only option, I would probably record mono and use a goo convolution reverb - but mainly I would try my best to get two mics! :)


Cheers,

otek

[ggunn]

I think I'd try stacking two mics top to top, set to figure 8 pickup and turned 90 degrees from each other and have them stand in a circle around the array. Mix by proximity.

Yeah, I know that his mic choices are limited, but I'm just sayin'...

[otek]

which hasn't got figure 8 so Blumlein goes away!

I think I'd try stacking two mics top to top, set to figure 8 pickup and turned 90 degrees from each other and have them stand in a circle around the array.


:Roll eyes:

:Wink:

[Brendo]

one mic in omni could work. control blend by moving guys back and forth from the mic.

[Knastratt]

Ok, so there's only one way to solve this in a high-end manner. Spare me a few bucks and I'll get a second Brauner. Please?

:Thumbsup:

So if I read you correct - blending two different mics just goes away. As far away as getting two dirt cheap SDC.

What about two Crown PZM on the floor or on baffles? They would probably be close to budget.

[Brendo]

personally i'd take all the mics. and try all the suggestions. i'd give the brauner + cad a go but you might end up just with the brauner?

[dumbass]

What about two Crown PZM on the floor or on baffles?

What would work better is to strap em' face to face and suspend them overhead from a mic stand... instant XY!

[Mixerman]

Ok, so there's only one way to solve this in a high-end manner. Spare me a few bucks and I'll get a second Brauner. Please?

:Thumbsup:

So if I read you correct - blending two different mics just goes away.

I'm not sure that option goes away. In fact, I'd try that option.

First try them as a spaced pair. If that doesn't work, (and I imagine it won't be great, but you never know) then try turning half the choir slightly to the right facing the Brauner, and turn the other half of the choir slightly to the left facing the CAD. How much you turn them will have to be determined by ear. Obvioulsy, you have to also check for phase coherency, but I think you can have the mics far enough apart that this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

You might consider placing a third mic far away from the choir, and mix that channel in slightly to glue it all together.

This is an 8 piece choir. So I'd get a riser, and put two on the floor and two on the riser for each side. This will help in keeping the four voices somewhat equidistant from the mics, allowing them to be responsible for their blend.

Mixerman

[Knastratt]

Thx!

[Starfucker]

Is MS a possibility?

If one of those mics does 8 and the other cardio...

Don't know if it works for 8 piece barbershop

[otek]

...which hasn't got figure 8 so Blumlein goes away!

I think I'd try stacking two mics top to top, set to figure 8 pickup and turned 90 degrees from each other and have them stand in a circle around the array.

Is MS a possibility?

If one of those mics does 8 and the other cardio...

Don't know if it works for 8 piece barbershop


It's not often that I get to copy and paste a post twice in a thread! :lol: :Twisted:

Mixerman's idea will work great. Yeah, I'm being fickle here, but I realized I was unnecessarily worried about the stereo pair thing, for a small ensemble such as this.

Cheers,

otek

[ggunn]

It's not often that I get to copy and paste a post twice in a thread! :lol: :Twisted:

Mixerman's idea will work great. Yeah, I'm being fickle here, but I realized I was unnecessarily worried about the stereo pair thing, for a small ensemble such as this.

Cheers,

otek

Wow. I invented the Blumlein array. Too bad I was ~80 years late with the idea; I could have named it after myself. ;^)

[otek]

Wow. I invented the Blumlein array. Too bad I was ~80 years late with the idea; I could have named it after myself. ;^)


Hmmm, I think a "Gunn array" sounds unnecessarily violent. :lol:

[volthause]

Hmmm, I think a "Gunn array" sounds unnecessarily violent. :lol:

Not for some of the bands I've had the "privilege" of recording. :lol:

[Knastratt]

Maybe I'd try the Ms/Blumlein approach? Of, fuck - none of the mics gotta figure 8! :Uh oh:

Well the prospect of probably not having to buy any hardware is totally attractive. That money would keep me permanently wasted for a month.

Cheers.

[Starfucker]

It's not often that I get to copy and paste a post twice in a thread!

I thought he wrote that the Brauner didn't have 8, so I figured the CAD did. Should've done more research before I posted... but that's so not me :Roll eyes: