FAVE cheaper amps for heavy distorted guitars from Hell?

[Cary Chilton]

I know Axe mentioned the 8100 as decent amp for heavies.
I just saw the Randall modular amp, either in Rackmount or in the George Lynch head, looks cool but I never played or heard it recorded. 5150's are decent too. Peavy XXX, Uberscall's are awesome but out of my price range.

[AxeSlash]

I know Axe mentioned the 8100 as decent amp for heavies.
I just saw the Randall modular amp, either in Rackmount or in the George Lynch head, looks cool but I never played or heard it recorded. 5150's are decent too. Peavy XXX, Uberscall's are awesome but out of my price range.

Some cheap rackmount EQs, a cheap PA power amp, and something like a JMP-1? Although I've never actually played one I've heard some people who do heavy stuff with one and they sounded reasonable. In my experience, a selection of cheap rack gear can produce a better sound than the same money spent on a single guitar head...IF you have the knowledge of how to use the rack stuff to attain what you want, which is half the battle. You also have the option of continually being able to improve on your sound just by tweaking knobs in a rack rig.

Also be careful about me mentioning the 8100 - I wouldn't use it as a standalone amp live these days; it needs some post-EQ in the effects loop to really get the meat and two veg it needs, which usually makes the power stage do horrible things.


Of course all of this is completely irrelevant if everything BEFORE the amp isn't geared up to a heavy sound - and by that I mean your playing style, your pick, guitar and pickup choice, pre-EQ if the amp needs it etc etc.

Which has mostly been covered in other threads.

I'll be honest though, it's difficult to do GOOD 'heavy' on a budget. You could go the metalzone route, but you can forget any dynamics in that case, plus it requires a slightly weird picking technique to really get the best out of it.

[JMP2204]

I know Axe mentioned the 8100 as decent amp for heavies.
I just saw the Randall modular amp, either in Rackmount or in the George Lynch head, looks cool but I never played or heard it recorded. 5150's are decent too. Peavy XXX, Uberscall's are awesome but out of my price range.

I've always liked my Peavey Classic 50. 50 Watts, EL34 based.

I picked mine up used for just a couple hundred bucks. A real versatile amp with a pretty good crunchy sound.

[studjo]

JMP but I hope you wouldn't call those Peaveys (Classic) heavy amps unless you mean their weight (in that case the statement is also only true for the 50) :very happy:


Jo

[JMP2204]

JMP but I hope you wouldn't call those Peaveys (Classic) heavy amps unless you mean their weight (in that case the statement is also only true for the 50) :very happy:


Jo

:lol:

True... MAN, that thing is heavy! Weight-wise I mean...

[eagan]

Hmm. Seems like we might have a problem similar to another recent thread in very similar territory.

That is, what does any one particular person call heavy?

Might be better to just leave it open to "fave cheaper amps for distorted guitar" and throw the doors open, and let people pick and choose and toss away what they want.

So. How about that mighty Pignose, mighty fearsome beast of power and majesty?


JLE

[waterboy]

The Orange Tiny Terror (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BbgU5kS14HE)

I think they run apprx $550

[moaus]

the 8100 valve states are horrible - personal opinion - but he did clarify that the power amp stage kinda sux - its a tranny so no suprises there... i

orange tiny terror is a great amp - run it at 7 watts class A

also - sovtek midget - great fkn amp - marshall on steroids

but - whats wrong with an eq pedal into a jcm 800 - nothing!

haha

but i guess this is all subject to opinion

my sound isn't that heavy - i use gretches into marshalls (2203) but i use thick strings and heavy picks - tuned in standard - and it has definately had more "weight" to it than friends who have newer marshalls (like TSL's) and who tune down a step...

but eh - its all subjective

[paul101]

Just out of interest, what makes a peavey classic bad for metal?

They have way more gain than a jcm 800. Or is it just cus there covered in tweed?:grin:

[Brendo]

for some odd reason a lot of people who hear my DSL401 on our recordings say "whoa, how'd you get that guitar sound?".

i dunno, its not THAT big? but i keep getting questions about it.

[Moonrider]

Might be better to just leave it open to "fave cheaper amps for distorted guitar" and throw the doors open, and let people pick and choose and toss away what they want.



By THAT criteria - my Vox VR15 through a cab (any size) will embarass just about any modern Marshall. Just plug in and crank it. I got mine for $99 - but they're going for more than that on fleabay now.

[vocalnick]

I like my old Peavey VTM-60 head verily muchly.

[Tim Halligan]

for some odd reason a lot of people who hear my DSL401 on our recordings say "whoa, how'd you get that guitar sound?".

i dunno, its not THAT big? but i keep getting questions about it.

That's precisely why...

Small amps cranked seem to have a different mojo about them than the big amps.

There is a different focus to the sound that 4x12's just can't do.

Cheers,
Tim

[Zoesch]

Phsaw... amps, cheap?

You want distorted?

You want to electrify your audience?

You want to shred and shock?

You wish every time you played your audience's hairs stood up on end?

Then you need this amp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSAExHBrfwU

Anything else is so lame that it'll make you look like C.C. DeVille.

[rockdart]

Phsaw... amps, cheap?

You want distorted?

You want to electrify your audience?

You want to shred and shock?

You wish every time you played your audience's hairs stood up on end?

Then you need this amp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSAExHBrfwU

Anything else is so lame that it'll make you look like C.C. DeVille.

2 Big @$$ed one of those - one on each side of the stage - with a splitter to go to it and a 'regular' cab would be the shizznit live!

Not very "green" though. I wonder what the electric bill would be for that.

[studjo]

Just out of interest, what makes a peavey classic bad for metal?

They have way more gain than a jcm 800. Or is it just cus there covered in tweed?:grin:

I just think their high end doesn't fit into metal that good - the mids aren't also after my liking and I don't start with the bass

so bascially I think it's just the wrong amp for me and my idea of metal but for someone else it may be excactly what the doctor ordered.

[Jasco]

Just out of interest, what makes a peavey classic bad for metal?

They have way more gain than a jcm 800. Or is it just cus there covered in tweed?:grin:

I don't play metal, nor record it very often, but if I had to venture a guess, I'd say that the fact that peavey classics are open back amps, probably fucks with the low end for heavily distorted stuff. If you plugged one into a closed-back cab, it might do better.

[AxeSlash]

the 8100 valve states are horrible - personal opinion - but he did clarify that the power amp stage kinda sux - its a tranny so no suprises there... i


There's fuck all wrong with tranny amps!

It's just that the power stage on the 8100 really doesn't like having bottom end shoved through it - it farts. It might have just been the one I had; after opening it up I discovered a few resistors had been bodge-replaced and were frying, so that coulda been the problem...these days I run the line out of it through a SS power amp and it sounds quite happy.


Anyway, 8100s need post EQ, no doubt about that, but the basic distortion on them is good and tight. Not to everyone's taste, but I like it. If you need heavy distortion, but still retaining clarity and tightness (and dynamics, amazingly), the 8100 is a good starting point once you've added some toys.

I wouldn't run it on it's own these days though.

[Cary Chilton]

There's fuck all wrong with tranny amps!

It's just that the power stage on the 8100 really doesn't like having bottom end shoved through it - it farts. It might have just been the one I had; after opening it up I discovered a few resistors had been bodge-replaced and were frying, so that coulda been the problem...these days I run the line out of it through a SS power amp and it sounds quite happy.


Anyway, 8100s need post EQ, no doubt about that, but the basic distortion on them is good and tight. Not to everyone's taste, but I like it. If you need heavy distortion, but still retaining clarity and tightness (and dynamics, amazingly), the 8100 is a good starting point once you've added some toys.

I wouldn't run it on it's own these days though.

Axe, then the 8100 filtering , but probably more due to cheap output/power transformers are not great for reproducing lows at any substantial volume ...so it farts out.


Thanks for the replies. Pignoses and other small amps are great if you don't need much low end reproduction. I never knew the Peavey classic 50 had that much gain on tap. I wonder how it compares to the 6505 or 6505+, triple X or JSX?
That is whole other thread right there! Which Peavey amp thrash/speed/metal records the best?

[AxeSlash]

The triple x is one of the few 'no toys required' heads that I actually LIKE for the kinda metal I play with.

Unfortunately I'm just too much of a control freak to put all my eggs in one basket at this point in time :lol:

[eagan]

Hey, that reminds me, Axe, how's that insane Siamese twins rig you were working on coming along there?


JLE

[AxeSlash]

Hey, that reminds me, Axe, how's that insane Siamese twins rig you were working on coming along there?


JLE

Been farting around with recording it earlier tonight actually.

Works fine, sounds fucking amazing...but still needs some pre-gain EQ, albeit vast amounts less than the old 9001 rig did. Thus I do still have a *slight* noise floor issue, but nothing a gate doesn't take care of.

It really doesn't like single coil pickups though :P I might need to shovel some more shielding around the mains transformer.

[AxeSlash]

Here's a pic of it from a few weeks back (minus the pre gain EQ):

[gitarted]

it's not cheap,

Soldano SLO100 nuff said

[Brendo]

subtract the "heavy" and "from hell", and i'm going to throw in a vote for the vox pathfinder 15R... although you need to mic it with the right microphone, or run it into a proper cabinet.

dirt cheap, and has the features of 'real' amps, including a real spring reverb!

i did a stereo setup with this and my DSL401 yesterday and the vox held up very nicely.

[omikl]

I chuck around a few that'll get me roasted:

Tech21 Trademark series I like their faux Marshall sounds.

Solid state Trace Elliot Tramp series. The highest gain settings are a bit "Early 90's Metal by numbers", but they can still prod buttock if not outright kick arse. They have spring reverb, Celestion speakers and channel switching with seperate channel EQs, Channel 2 has two drive characters (Roughly "Marshally and the same as channel 1" and "more Mesa-like") and a footswitchable lead boost. Personally I think they messed them up when the bowed to fashion & put a valve in the pre-amp in about '96. (Then of course Gibson bought them, cherry picked the valve amp series, killed the solid state guitar stuff and spun them off again as a Bass amp manufacturer.)

Mesa V-Twin into something loud and clean even?

I'm another who doesn't get the modern Marshalls though. I use the JCM2000 TSL combo in our keyboard player's rehearsal space and it's doesn't blow up my skirt if you know what I mean.

[greyskull]

5150

[Tommy Fobia]

I always seem to come back to 5150s for some reason.

Throw a decent graphic in the effects loop and you have some extremely flexible crunch.

[Slipperman]

I always seem to come back to 5150s for some reason.

Throw a decent graphic in the effects loop and you have some extremely flexible crunch.

Just a strange, strange sounding amp.

I'm not gonna officially disagree with the recommendation at all..., I'll just say this:

I have used them since they were new kit, usually have a couple of them kicking around at the shop(an old one and a MKII are both owned by one of the staff here, who apparently doesn't have the time to play guitar at home anymore) and yet I have NEVER gotten completely comfortable with how they sound in a room, or recorded for that matter.

What cabinet are you guys using them with...?

The Peavey 4x12 one with the BW's?

I HATE the way that one sounds. It's got some kinda "nodal" thing going on in 2 spots in the midrange at lower volume. Like 350Hz and 800Hz. Drives me NUTS. Comb filter city. The bottom is TOTALLY separated from the low mids until the amp is at "welding volume". At that point the "6k rat" is off the fucking chain and yer fucked on getting anything in close without flattening the diaphragm. Fucking with the Treble and Presence controls will only serve to make the pick attack sound "soggy". It will make a fucking TELE sound "soggy". Kill me.

The best results I have ever gotten have been the "old" 5150 with an early 70's Marshall "412 straight" loaded with greenbacks. No "nodal" BS... but the speakers either seem like they're not working ENOUGH, or working TOO MUCH. Switch to a 260w. 1960 slant with Rola goldbacks and the bottom evaporates unless the amp is raging, and then the speakers are trapped at the end of the tether and the pick attack get mushy. Try a standard 1960 with whitebacks and it's "giant mosquitos" with(once again) a "hole" between the bottom octave and the low mids you CAN'T eq. back together from the head.

Speaking of which:

The fucking "resonance" control drives me bonkers(especially on the MKII)... it always seems too much or too little against the pre gain..., and the eq. band interaction is fucking BIZARRE. Case in point: Resonance juxtaposed with presence and mid. A series of sliding floors that open and close with the smallest adjustments.

I have probably recorded about 50+ records with these amps over the years(mixing one as I type this), and I always end up feeling like I "missed something". It's crazy. Clients will LOVE the end result and I'm always left scratching my head a little.

I have learned to just shut the fuck up and deal with the fact that these things have a "gravely and disjointed" component to the distortion that I will probably never dig. The biggest problem is: you CAN'T get rid of it on input in tracking, or downstream in mix... as it is WHERE THE AMP "LIVES" and the sound becomes totally gossamer without it.

OK. I return to mix hell with not one or two or ten but SEVENTEEN tracks of guitar on the current song. More than half of them that FUCKING 5150.

HOHOHO.

XOXOX

Slippy

[iCombs]

So I'm not the only guy who detests 5150's? Good deal.

I had to mix the worst metal project ever not too long ago...and both the guitar players were rolling EMG 81 loaded something-or-others into 5150's (i think one may even have actually been a 6505) into whatever shit cabs they had...and then I swear to god they must've put their 57's RIGHT ON THE FUCKING DUSTCAP...no body...no bottom...no real mids to speak of (even though these guys don't want "scooped mids")...it was total Cock and Balls ((tm) Slipperman, 2008).

And don't even ASK about the C1000 tracks...

I'm gonna second the SLO...but it's gotta have KT-66's in it and not the 5881's. Buddy of mine has one with ALL the mods...and DAMN is it one of the most beautifully brutal pieces of machinery ever created.

I guess in all this, cheap is such a relative thing...I mean...there are some amp sims I would take in a heartbeat over some cheap amps...and HAVE when no one's looking...and I HATE sims. Fun toys, shit tools...but...damn...there are some really terribe amps out there.

[Molly's Lips]

The best results I have ever gotten have been the "old" 5150 with an early 70's Marshall "412 straight" loaded with greenbacks. No "nodal" BS... but the speakers either seem like they're not working ENOUGH, or working TOO MUCH. Slippy
I'm thinking you might be able to get some Vintage 30s to do what you want. Just a blatant guess grounded in no actual experience with that amp/speaker combination.

BTW, this is the first "cheap" guitar amp discussion I've ever seen mention 5150s and Saldonos. I think I'm hanging with the wrong crowds.

[Tommy Fobia]

Just a strange, strange sounding amp.

I'm not gonna officially disagree with the recommendation at all..., I'll just say this:

I have used them since they were new kit, usually have a couple of them kicking around at the shop(an old one and a MKII are both owned by one of the staff here, who apparently doesn't have the time to play guitar at home anymore) and yet I have NEVER gotten completely comfortable with how they sound in a room, or recorded for that matter.

What cabinet are you guys using them with...?

The Peavey 4x12 one with the BW's?

I HATE the way that one sounds. It's got some kinda "nodal" thing going on in 2 spots in the midrange at lower volume. Like 350Hz and 800Hz. Drives me NUTS. Comb filter city. The bottom is TOTALLY separated from the low mids until the amp is at "welding volume". At that point the "6k rat" is off the fucking chain and yer fucked on getting anything in close without flattening the diaphragm. Fucking with the Treble and Presence controls will only serve to make the pick attack sound "soggy". It will make a fucking TELE sound "soggy". Kill me.

The best results I have ever gotten have been the "old" 5150 with an early 70's Marshall "412 straight" loaded with greenbacks. No "nodal" BS... but the speakers either seem like they're not working ENOUGH, or working TOO MUCH. Switch to a 260w. 1960 slant with Rola goldbacks and the bottom evaporates unless the amp is raging, and then the speakers are trapped at the end of the tether and the pick attack get mushy. Try a standard 1960 with whitebacks and it's "giant mosquitos" with(once again) a "hole" between the bottom octave and the low mids you CAN'T eq. back together from the head.

Speaking of which:

The fucking "resonance" control drives me bonkers(especially on the MKII)... it always seems too much or too little against the pre gain..., and the eq. band interaction is fucking BIZARRE. Case in point: Resonance juxtaposed with presence and mid. A series of sliding floors that open and close with the smallest adjustments.

I have probably recorded about 50+ records with these amps over the years(mixing one as I type this), and I always end up feeling like I "missed something". It's crazy. Clients will LOVE the end result and I'm always left scratching my head a little.

I have learned to just shut the fuck up and deal with the fact that these things have a "gravely and disjointed" component to the distortion that I will probably never dig. The biggest problem is: you CAN'T get rid of it on input in tracking, or downstream in mix... as it is WHERE THE AMP "LIVES" and the sound becomes totally gossamer without it.

OK. I return to mix hell with not one or two or ten but SEVENTEEN tracks of guitar on the current song. More than half of them that FUCKING 5150.

HOHOHO.

XOXOX

Slippy

Hey Slippy, I have a couple of marshall straight cabs, one with V30s and one with G12t-75, neither of which I particularly like with 5150s. The V30s beaming just leads to the exaggeration of its spiky top end and G12t-75s sound nasal to me.

I have had most luck with cabs loaded with either G12H-100s or G12K-100s. Infact my old peavey cab now has a quad of the 'Ks in it which vastly improves things in my opinion.

Also it may be worth considering a few things regarding the power section of the amp.

Considering that 5150s tend to be reliant on considerable power section involvement, to sound vaguely 'normal', it makes absolutely no sense what so ever to have the tubes running so damn COLD - which is what peavey do when they calibrate the bias from factory to run at around 14/18ma.

Last time I checked, the plate voltage is around 500v so each 6l6GC should be pushing at least 34/36ma to avoid crossover distortion and the other nasty artifacts associated with a cold bias.

SO I changed the bias resistor in one of my MKIIs - allowing me to run the power section at around 36ma. Running the power-amp within the tolerances for which the tubes were designed, smoothed out the disjointed mess of distortion considerably.

I have the same gripe with mesa. Rectos tend to come out of the factory boasting a whopping 7ma on each 6l6.


Also, I find it really helps to get power-amp involvement a hell of a lot earlier by pulling out a pair of power tubes (outer pair or inner pair). Set the impedance switch on the back of the amp to half of the value of the cab. Eg. switch the amp to 8 ohm if using a 16 ohm cab.

See if it works for you anyway. I have a love hate relationship with 5150s. I always end up coming back to them after toying with various boutique/high end amps for a while.

Anyway - I hope that gives you something to mull over. :)


The EQ stack is appalling - 'nuff said. I tend to set the amps EQ so it sounds 'least bad', and then tweak the graphic in the loop.

[iCombs]

I'm thinking you might be able to get some Vintage 30s to do what you want. Just a blatant guess grounded in no actual experience with that amp/speaker combination.

BTW, this is the first "cheap" guitar amp discussion I've ever seen mention 5150s and Saldonos. I think I'm hanging with the wrong crowds.

I guess my point is that in a lot of ways, there really isn't a good way to cheap out and still come away with something great. Soldano is by no means cheap, but you can guarantee that you're not going to be limited by your amp's capability to produce a good tone.

Shit...as it is I struggle with my JCM2000, which, as far as I can tell, is a not-so-hot 900. Only reason I got it is that a buddy was unloading it for 5 hundo and I needed something gainy around. It might be cool in combination with something else...but it's kinda thin-ish and grindy...even after a total retubing. Not a TERRIBLE amp, but just not huge and dimensional like I want to hear.

Yes, there are some less expensive amps to be had that are usable in these situations...and perhaps I'm being a total dick by posting in this thread when I know damn well that I really don't give 2 hot shits what those options are because I guess I look at the situation differently. For myself, I look to get my hands on the most ass-whooping great piece of gear I can afford, and try to raise the "average weakest link" level in the process. And for sessions I'm doing where I can't strongarm a band into leaving their Marshall MG's at home, I do what I can to get something workable out of it, and then we worry about getting a take...and if they don't like the guitar sounds...I've got no problem telling them that it's tough to sound like a pro when you're playing through the amp equivalent of Playskool...but it's "your sound, dood."

If this is about making the best of what you got, then I'm cool with that...and I'm probably ranting like a douchebag...I'm all about cost consciousness...but there's a difference between working within a budget and cheaping out.

[greyskull]

Just a strange, strange sounding amp.

I'm not gonna officially disagree with the recommendation at all..., I'll just say this:

I have used them since they were new kit, usually have a couple of them kicking around at the shop(an old one and a MKII are both owned by one of the staff here, who apparently doesn't have the time to play guitar at home anymore) and yet I have NEVER gotten completely comfortable with how they sound in a room, or recorded for that matter.

What cabinet are you guys using them with...?

The Peavey 4x12 one with the BW's?

I HATE the way that one sounds. It's got some kinda "nodal" thing going on in 2 spots in the midrange at lower volume. Like 350Hz and 800Hz. Drives me NUTS. Comb filter city. The bottom is TOTALLY separated from the low mids until the amp is at "welding volume". At that point the "6k rat" is off the fucking chain and yer fucked on getting anything in close without flattening the diaphragm. Fucking with the Treble and Presence controls will only serve to make the pick attack sound "soggy". It will make a fucking TELE sound "soggy". Kill me.

The best results I have ever gotten have been the "old" 5150 with an early 70's Marshall "412 straight" loaded with greenbacks. No "nodal" BS... but the speakers either seem like they're not working ENOUGH, or working TOO MUCH. Switch to a 260w. 1960 slant with Rola goldbacks and the bottom evaporates unless the amp is raging, and then the speakers are trapped at the end of the tether and the pick attack get mushy. Try a standard 1960 with whitebacks and it's "giant mosquitos" with(once again) a "hole" between the bottom octave and the low mids you CAN'T eq. back together from the head.

Speaking of which:

The fucking "resonance" control drives me bonkers(especially on the MKII)... it always seems too much or too little against the pre gain..., and the eq. band interaction is fucking BIZARRE. Case in point: Resonance juxtaposed with presence and mid. A series of sliding floors that open and close with the smallest adjustments.

I have probably recorded about 50+ records with these amps over the years(mixing one as I type this), and I always end up feeling like I "missed something". It's crazy. Clients will LOVE the end result and I'm always left scratching my head a little.

I have learned to just shut the fuck up and deal with the fact that these things have a "gravely and disjointed" component to the distortion that I will probably never dig. The biggest problem is: you CAN'T get rid of it on input in tracking, or downstream in mix... as it is WHERE THE AMP "LIVES" and the sound becomes totally gossamer without it.

OK. I return to mix hell with not one or two or ten but SEVENTEEN tracks of guitar on the current song. More than half of them that FUCKING 5150.

HOHOHO.

XOXOX

Slippy

I do know what you mean... it takes quite some tweaking to get THE sound out of it.

In regards to the soggy ness; 99.9 % of the time i'll run a tubescreamer in front of it which seems to do the trick.

Oh yeah and the 5150 cabs are complete arse. I use mine into an Orange 4x12 with V30's. nothing else seems to work for me.

But then again next to your experience; what the fuck do i know.

as far as price goes; I spent £100 on mine.
heh heh heh.

[Slipperman]

Hey Tommy!

Buncha great recommendations here.

I appreciate it.

I have always felt with the 5150(as WaltWitless once said somewhere else about something else), "You can SEE the promised land, you just can't quite GET THERE".

Then again, WW got the brown acid at Woodstock and still makes a yearly pilgrimage there in a vain attempt to locate his misplaced rubidium love beads.

Only problem is...


He thinks the former concert site is located in the Staten Island Dump. Security rounds him up every year for a nice rest here: Weedy's State Subsidized Vacation (http://www.siuh.edu/)

Anyhoo. I digress.

Once again, thanks to ALL posters in the thread for your kind and thoughtful responses regarding getting the 5150 to deliver to potential. I will actually get yet another shot at trying a few of these things out sooner rather than later over this summer.

Gotta flee.

XOXOX

Slippy

Hey Slippy, I have a couple of marshall straight cabs, one with V30s and one with G12t-75, neither of which I particularly like with 5150s. The V30s beaming just leads to the exaggeration of its spiky top end and G12t-75s sound nasal to me.

I have had most luck with cabs loaded with either G12H-100s or G12K-100s. Infact my old peavey cab now has a quad of the 'Ks in it which vastly improves things in my opinion.

Also it may be worth considering a few things regarding the power section of the amp.

Considering that 5150s tend to be reliant on considerable power section involvement, to sound vaguely 'normal', it makes absolutely no sense what so ever to have the tubes running so damn COLD - which is what peavey do when they calibrate the bias from factory to run at around 14/18ma.

Last time I checked, the plate voltage is around 500v so each 6l6GC should be pushing at least 34/36ma to avoid crossover distortion and the other nasty artifacts associated with a cold bias.

SO I changed the bias resistor in one of my MKIIs - allowing me to run the power section at around 36ma. Running the power-amp within the tolerances for which the tubes were designed, smoothed out the disjointed mess of distortion considerably.

I have the same gripe with mesa. Rectos tend to come out of the factory boasting a whopping 7ma on each 6l6.


Also, I find it really helps to get power-amp involvement a hell of a lot earlier by pulling out a pair of power tubes (outer pair or inner pair). Set the impedance switch on the back of the amp to half of the value of the cab. Eg. switch the amp to 8 ohm if using a 16 ohm cab.

See if it works for you anyway. I have a love hate relationship with 5150s. I always end up coming back to them after toying with various boutique/high end amps for a while.

Anyway - I hope that gives you something to mull over. :)


The EQ stack is appalling - 'nuff said. I tend to set the amps EQ so it sounds 'least bad', and then tweak the graphic in the loop.

[Tommy Fobia]

Hey Tommy!

Buncha great recommendations here.

I appreciate it.

I have always felt with the 5150(as WaltWitless once said somewhere else about something else), "You can SEE the promised land, you just can't quite GET THERE".

Then again, WW got the brown acid at Woodstock and still makes a yearly pilgrimage there in a vain attempt to locate his misplaced rubidium love beads.

Only problem is...


He thinks the former concert site is located in the Staten Island Dump. Security rounds him up every year for a nice rest here: Weedy's State Subsidized Vacation (http://www.siuh.edu/)

Anyhoo. I digress.

Once again, thanks to ALL posters in the thread for your kind and thoughtful responses regarding getting the 5150 to deliver to potential. I will actually get yet another shot at trying a few of these things out sooner rather than later over this summer.

Gotta flee.

XOXOX

Slippy

No problem - I'd love to hear if any of the tricks work out for you in the end.
:)

[iCombs]

I've also heard that there's someone out there that offers a mod kit for the 5150 that, among other things, replaces the output transformer...and from what my freak equipment dealer here in town tells me...it makes a big diff. I'll see if I can find out who's doing it and put up a link.

[Tommy Fobia]

I believe that may be Jerry from FJA Mods.

http://www.fjamods.com/

[AxeSlash]

I'll jump on the 5150-frustration bandwagon.

Is it just me, or do they ALWAYS sound fizzy no matter WHAT you rape it with EQ-wise? I once spent HOURS trying to find out what was going on in the top end to produce that sort of shit...I gave up in the end. I came to the conclusion it's not an issue with the frequency response of the rig, and something inherent in the pre stage.

In related news, I'm tracking a coupla records with my ridiculous 8100 rig atm. I'll post some stuff for you to shout "HE'S MAD" to when they're done.

Assuming I remember, this is.

[Tommy Fobia]

I'll jump on the 5150-frustration bandwagon.

Is it just me, or do they ALWAYS sound fizzy no matter WHAT you rape it with EQ-wise? I once spent HOURS trying to find out what was going on in the top end to produce that sort of shit...I gave up in the end. I came to the conclusion it's not an issue with the frequency response of the rig, and something inherent in the pre stage.

In related news, I'm tracking a coupla records with my ridiculous 8100 rig atm. I'll post some stuff for you to shout "HE'S MAD" to when they're done.

Assuming I remember, this is.

Yeah, basically. The cold power section is responsible for the ratty high end. Completely ridiculous idea, considering 5150s are reliant on power section involvement. I have NO IDEA why peavey set things up this way. It makes NO SENSE AT ALL, considering what is possible with a 5150 once you run the power section at a healthy tolerance for the tubes.

[ffaudio]

The randall modular stuff is really cool. I'm getting a head soon to use for a studio amp just because it is so flexible.

Here are sound samples from the diffrent modules:

http://www.bandslink.com/randall.htm

[Knastratt]

I have a hard time not reaching for my Rocktron Piranha (retrofitted w NOS Telefunken 12AT7) for power chuggah. If I need cone movement I just patch it to a UniValve.

Make sure to steer clear of the speak sim output. It just sucks.

[Calvin]

Make sure to steer clear of the speak sim output. It just sucks.

As does just about every speak sim output I've ever heard.

[strangedays]

My orange OR120 is A BEAST, what I do is pop a damage control demonizer in front of it and wam, instant powerful high gain. (demonizer is a proper valve pre amp with lots of control.

Nothing sounds as lush as the Orange on its own but its flexible insofar that you can pop all sorts into it and retain power if you keep the gains matched well.


It was cheap second hand compaired to the new ones.

[ben_allison]

What's "cheap"? One man's ceiling is another man's floor...

I think the Krank Rev Jr would be tons of fun... and under $600 for the head! It's low wattage so you can get a bit more juice out of it without as much volume.

A used 5150 would come pretty cheap and is a staple.

A used Mark IV would slay... don't believe me, listen to some Lamb of God. It takes tweaking, but it'd rip.

[onze_jef]

I 'd recommend any JCM800 copy from the days amps still had big trafo's and good components and let an amptech check and optimize the thing...


I have a Sovtek Mig100 and together with a Fulltone OCD (set with very little dirt and maximum boost) it has a very defined (pickattack, notes in chords) and überheavy sound.

Some preamp tube swapping can make a world of difference (as with all amps) and experiment with boost or OD pedals...

[Brendo]

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

Anyone tried the Krank Rev Jr, Rev Jr pro and the krankenstein Jr?

[seaneldon]

A Sovtek MIG50 or MIG60 can get pretty brutal with a speaker that breaks up on the early side. MIG100's are too fucking loud to play indoors. MIG60's have more clarity if you think you'll ever need that. These are actually getting more expensive now for some reason. The Sovtek build in general is suspect but they're easy to maintain.

That Tiny Terror amp is a fucking dog. With two legs. Not even three. One in the front, one in the back, same side. He's fucked. People who like that thing need to play with their fingers instead of their ass.

[onze_jef]

Hmmm... I had a Mig50 (without mastervolume) and 2 Mig100s and kept one of the 100s since I liked it better then. It sure is no bedroom amp but it 's no less usable than any other 100W head at rehearsal volumes (and no, we don 't play excessively loud)

My amptech likes the Mig100 I kept since it 's indeed easy to maintain and he says it 's a well built amp, sure no boutique stuff, but better than current production "let 's get some crap trafos and cheap Chinese parts" amps.

Maybe this one 's an exception since the other Mig100 I had had plastic switches and this one has metal ones?

Anyhow, I don 't care: I only care about the sound and the reliability of what I have... the sound I judge myself and if my amptech says it 's roadworthy I trust him.



A Sovtek MIG50 or MIG60 can get pretty brutal with a speaker that breaks up on the early side. MIG100's are too fucking loud to play indoors. MIG60's have more clarity if you think you'll ever need that. These are actually getting more expensive now for some reason. The Sovtek build in general is suspect but they're easy to maintain.

That Tiny Terror amp is a fucking dog. With two legs. Not even three. One in the front, one in the back, same side. He's fucked. People who like that thing need to play with their fingers instead of their ass.

[pacAir]

I chuck around a few that'll get me roasted:

Tech21 Trademark series I like their faux Marshall sounds.



LOL! You won't get any roast from me!

I own a pair of Trademark 60s and primarily use them for recording. As a matter of fact, all of my guitar tracks on Team Superphonic's Cape 7 submission last year were silently tracked (from the SansAmp XLR line-out) using this amp with a Les Paul barefoot... no pedals at all!

While not guitar "amplifiers", the Tech 21 Tri-AC (Fender Tweed, Mesa and Marshall emulations) and Liverpool (Vox AC-30 emulations) pedals are favorites of mine as well. There's just something more "organic" about Tech 21's analog emulation vs digital modelling (ala Line 6).


Steve

[Saculus]

I picked up a used Peavey XXX for $450 delivered and it has been the best amp my cheap ass has ever owned. A decent clean channel, Great HiGain Channel, and an Over Fizzy Lead channel for when I miss my now barely used 5150. The 5150 is a great amp when maintained with the right tubes which I've yet to discover and versatility is not its strong suit.

[otek]

That Tiny Terror amp is a fucking dog.

I think its appeal stems from the fact that people think they can get "the Orange sound" for relatively cheap.

I wasn't impressed.

I'd much rather get the Univalve.


otek

[seaneldon]

I think its appeal stems from the fact that people think they can get "the Orange sound" for relatively cheap.

It certainly has the Orange color and control nomenclature, but not the sound. Not even close to being the same sport. An OR120 is a defensive tackle, an AD30 is a middle linebacker, and the Tiny Terror is a ping pong paddle.

[onze_jef]

If you want "The Orange Sound", buy a Matamp.

[otek]

It certainly has the Orange color and control nomenclature, but not the sound.

Hence my operative word "think"...

If you want "The Orange Sound", buy a Matamp.

I was gonna say. :D


otek

[omikl]

LOL! You won't get any roast from me!

I own a pair of Trademark 60s and primarily use them for recording. As a matter of fact, all of my guitar tracks on Team Superphonic's Cape 7 submission last year were silently tracked (from the SansAmp XLR line-out) using this amp with a Les Paul barefoot... no pedals at all!

While not guitar "amplifiers", the Tech 21 Tri-AC (Fender Tweed, Mesa and Marshall emulations) and Liverpool (Vox AC-30 emulations) pedals are favorites of mine as well. There's just something more "organic" about Tech 21's analog emulation vs digital modelling (ala Line 6).


Steve

Just a Trademark 10 here and a Sansamp GT-2 that lives in my gig bag as a gig saver. I reckon it works better into an amp's effects return than into the pre-amp though.

As my main amp I'm running a 1981 Twin Reverb that's had some work done: Celestion Vintage 30's and a mod to the Normal Channel that uses the bright switch to lift the tone stack and give considerably more gain. However it's too damned loud to use. Even on an open air gig it was ripping our heads off by the time it got cooking! :)

[MKZ]

I think its appeal stems from the fact that people think they can get "the Orange sound" for relatively cheap.


I didn't and don't know what the "orange sound" is. I was looking for a cheap amp to buy, happened to hear and consequently play the TT at a friend's house. It sounded dirty. Liked it. Bought it.

I still like it, although it's not very versatile.

But yeah, if you want the sound of Amp X, buy Amp X and not Amp X's little cousin even if it might have a similar name.

[moaus]

If you want "The Orange Sound", buy a Matamp.

+1

having said that - i like the tiny terror's sound (for colour not as a main sound) but it isn't a classic "orange" sound - although even what is a classic orange sound is up for debate

[pacAir]

...As my main amp I'm running a 1981 Twin Reverb that's had some work done: Celestion Vintage 30's and a mod to the Normal Channel that uses the bright switch to lift the tone stack and give considerably more gain. However it's too damned loud to use. Even on an open air gig it was ripping our heads off by the time it got cooking! :)

I hear that! You could play Wembley Stadium with that amp! Also, that amp weighs a ton for it's size. They should have taken a cue from Vox and put a few more handles on it to make it easier to carry. That single handle can damage the nerves in your hand! Most of my friends who play the Twin struggle it into and out of gigs while holding the amp in a bear-hug.

While I still own a number of 2x12 and larger amps/cabs (far too many), many of the small local clubs I play in demand smaller gear (including my back) so I built a couple of baby "stacks" with a '90s Peavey Classic 30 with an Avatar Hellatone speaker (some "aged & treated" flavor of the Celestion Vintage 30) on top of a Peavey Classic 112E cab (also with a matching Hellatone) run in the open-back configuration (like the Classic 30).

I play a Strat into this amp (through a pedal board) and I like the tone and flexibility this combination offers. Granted, I use this set-up for live and it isn't normally used for recording but purchased used on eBay these amps are great bang for the buck. If I record and want something in a similar tone range I'll grab the Peavey Classic 20. It seems that all the Peavey Classics respond well to being driven by pedals (to get heavier tones) while only truly covering "Classic Rock" territory when barefoot.

Heavy is in the ear of the beholder, but if a gig strays into "heavier" territory it usually means (for me) a Marshall JCM800 4104 2x12 or a Vox AC50CP2 2x12 with 2x12 cab. The Vox was recently discontinued and is a really versatile amp, cost me less than $550 and is a sleeper in my book. It has more gain than my Marshall's lead channel with a very toneful and versatile Clean channel when EQ'ed properly and paired with a Strat anyway). It doesn't sound like a Vox in any way I can tell (despite the marketing) which is probably why it was discontinued.

That's about as heavy as I get and I suspect it is light-years away from many on this thread!


Steve

[tothegrave]

Also, that amp weighs a ton for it's size. They should have taken a cue from Vox and put a few more handles on it to make it easier to carry. That single handle can damage the nerves in your hand! Most of my friends who play the Twin struggle it into and out of gigs while holding the amp in a bear-hug.
Steve

Dude, thats nothing. My SVT II is ridiculously heavy. Still it sounds amazing, so i just make my singer carry it when we load in for a gig. :lol:

As for "heavy" amp recommendations...ive had some interesting experiences lately. We've got ourselves a 2nd guitar player and we've been doing a bunch of scrappy rehearsal demos. Listening back to these, the new guy's Randall combo KILLS the tone of our other guitarists Mesa Dual Rec. More grit, less fizz. The bottom end isnt as emphasised, but its not boomy on low-string chugs. AMAZING.

Im assuming it has something to do with the interaction of the
box and the 'head' in the Randall. Both guitarists are playing similar EMG-loaded spikey metal axes, and neither use pedals for rhythm tone.

So yeah, maybe some cheaper combos might be a place to start the search for cheap but brutal.

[clarito]

One of my favorite cheaper amps (minus the heavy and hell) is the Ampeg Reverberocket reissue. IMO it beats the shit out of the Fender Deville and it can be had for around $300-$350 used.

It's also extremely durable in my experience.

[chrisj]

How about $130? If you're willing to cheat RIDICULOUSLY...

Epiphone Valve Junior- really- kinda (http://www.jinxtigr.com/temp/LastMile.mp3) :Twisted:

Mind you, that's with a TS9, Mullard tubes, post-processing EQ and compression, all kinds of insane hotrodding with replacement signal caps and wire, and a single Weber Alnico Blue that cost more than the amp did, but it IS a Valve Junior, and it's chuggier than that youtube clip of the Orange Tiny Terror :D

[John Eppstein]

Phsaw... amps, cheap?

You want distorted?

You want to electrify your audience?

You want to shred and shock?

You wish every time you played your audience's hairs stood up on end?

Then you need this amp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSAExHBrfwU

Anything else is so lame that it'll make you look like C.C. DeVille.

Wow! I don't think I'd want it anywhere near my condenser microphones though......

[John Eppstein]

How about $130? If you're willing to cheat RIDICULOUSLY...

Epiphone Valve Junior- really- kinda (http://www.jinxtigr.com/temp/LastMile.mp3) :Twisted:

Mind you, that's with a TS9, Mullard tubes, post-processing EQ and compression, all kinds of insane hotrodding with replacement signal caps and wire, and a single Weber Alnico Blue that cost more than the amp did, but it IS a Valve Junior, and it's chuggier than that youtube clip of the Orange Tiny Terror :D

+1 on the Valve Junior - I've been running mine into an old low wattage RCA alnico magnet 12" PA speaker with great results except that sadly the speaker appears to be dying and could use a recone job.....

[strangedays]

Peavey Nanovalve.

Before you dis it they are going for dirt cheap and therefore if you wanna have some fun modding one they are a good one to look at. I put one into 2x12 cab and they are REALLY loud!

[Brendo]

Ok... what about rack preamps like the ADA MP-1? Run that into any reasonable clean poweramp and you're pulling late 80's and early to 90's rock and metal tones (Metallica, Skid Row, Deftones, Smashing Pumpkins, many more).

Pretty damn cheap on eBay too.

[Jasco]

Those ADA MP1's have a pretty nice chorus on them. Probably worth the price just for that.

[Cary Chilton]

+1 on the Valve Junior - I've been running mine into an old low wattage RCA alnico magnet 12" PA speaker with great results except that sadly the speaker appears to be dying and could use a recone job.....

Just bought a head on evilbay for 70 bucks sent it to
http://rockstahamps.com for his mod -which is basically a rebuilt board, newer, better components and it rocks!