Preamp WARS. Quick Question...

[Adam Offer]

Which set of Preamps would you buy:

Focusrite OctoPre (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OctoPre/)

OR

PreSonus DigiMAX LT (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DigimaxLT/)

I'm having some trouble deciding.
Thanks.

[otek]

What kind of interfacing options do you need?

[Adam Offer]

I'm not exactly sure...

I was also lookin' at the:
Studio Projects SP828 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SP828/)

I can hardly tell the difference between the 3

[otek]

I'm not exactly sure...

I see you've been to Sweetwater..... :Wink:

By my question about interface options I meant: What are you recording to? Do you already have a sound card with 8 inputs?

At least one of the pres you mention comes stock with a digital interface - I believe the Presonus has a lightpipe connection. Do you need this? Do you need any other type of interface? Or will 8 analog outputs do?

All preamps are not created equal. Every one sounds different. It's not just to do with the quality or price tag, each preamp has a different construction electronically. Ideally you should make up your mind based on the sonic character of the preamp and what suits your style.

[GeeWhoLeeo]

the presonus is cheaper!

[otek]

All preamps are not created equal.

I guess my whole point (and I believe GeeWhoLeeo's, too) with that comment was, 2 minutes poring over a gear website is not going to tell you anything about what you really need, except how much the units cost. That's it.

Some more info about the rest of your signal chain may help narrow it down though.

[Adam Offer]

Alright well here's my setup:

I'm running the Digi 002 Rack Factory (http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?langid=100&navid=103&itemid=4944) as my main converter and initial 4 preamps. I'm running everything into a Mac Pro (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=2CB5E8C0&nclm=MacPro). Right now I'm mixing all in the box with ProTools LE, but hopefully will be using a board in the future...
That's the main setup. Other then some headphone preamps and some other stuff, that's really what I'm working with.

So I don't exactly know what sonic signature I'm looking for, but I can tell you I'll be using them mostly for vocals, drums, and amp tracking... I just need to find a good neutral, warm sounding set of preamps. :Thumbsup:

[otek]

So, from what I can tell, the 002 gives you 8 analog inputs, and an 8-channel ADAT lightpipe.

This means that, in order to optimize the number of available inputs, the lightpipe on the Presonus (standard) or on the Octopre (optional) would come in handy.

You also need to find out how many channels you can record/use simultaneously. I don't know if the 002 supports simultaneous usage of the lightpipe and analog inputs. If it doesn't, you are basically limited to the 8 analog inputs, in which case you would have to defeat the 4 on-board preamps in order to be able to use the 8 channel outboard pre.

I can see a couple of possible ramifications of this: I have no idea how good the four on-board pres are, but if they are in the ballpark of the outboard pres you are about to buy, then essentially you are purchasing four extra preamp channels unnecessarily. In this case, I would spend the money on four outboard preamps that are significantly better instead, like the RNP's. All of this is naturally assuming you can not use the lightpipe and analog inputs of the 002 simultaneously.

[ggunn]

So, from what I can tell, the 002 gives you 8 analog inputs, and an 8-channel ADAT lightpipe.

This means that, in order to optimize the number of available inputs, the lightpipe on the Presonus (standard) or on the Octopre (optional) would come in handy.

You also need to find out how many channels you can record/use simultaneously. I don't know if the 002 supports simultaneous usage of the lightpipe and analog inputs. If it doesn't, you are basically limited to the 8 analog inputs, in which case you would have to defeat the 4 on-board preamps in order to be able to use the 8 channel outboard pre.

I can see a couple of possible ramifications of this: I have no idea how good the four on-board pres are, but if they are in the ballpark of the outboard pres you are about to buy, then essentially you are purchasing four extra preamp channels unnecessarily. In this case, I would spend the money on four outboard preamps that are significantly better instead, like the RNP's. All of this is naturally assuming you can not use the lightpipe and analog inputs of the 002 simultaneously.

I don't know about the 002, but my 001 can record 16 channels simultaneously - the 8 analog inputs, the 8 channels of ADAT over lightpipe, and 2 channels of S/PDIF.

[Starfucker]

a 002 has 18 simultaneous ins and outs. 8 analog + 8 ADAT + 2 SPDIF.

just make sure your I/O setup is ok.

I used a 002 once with a Presonus... to record a funeral...
The presonus had phantom power switches on the rear panel. Sucks if you wanna put it in a rack.

How about one of those Mackies?

[otek]

my 001 can record 16 channels simultaneously - the 8 analog inputs, the 8 channels of ADAT over lightpipe, and 2 channels of S/PDIF.

Aside from certain arithmetic challenges, :Wink: :D I think it's safe to say the 002 allows for simultaneous usage of analog and lightpipe.

Thanks ggunn and Starfucker!

Adam, you should then definitely take the lightpipe option into account when you figure out the cost of whatever unit you plan to get. The Presonus seems to come with it standard, so that would definitely speak in the Presonus's favor.

[Skwaidu]

a 002 has 18 simultaneous ins and outs. 8 analog + 8 ADAT + 2 SPDIF.

just make sure your I/O setup is ok.


Yeah, and true. Just remember to also figure out your digital clock distribution!

[Adam Offer]

So I looked into the RNP's Otek suggested...
FMR RNP's (http://www.humbuckermusic.com/fmraudrnreal.html)
These are them right?

I'm starting to consider this option due to the responses I've seen about the dullness of the Focusrite and the PreSonus.

How will these connect up with the Digi002?
And will they be able to record simultaneously with the 4 preamps on the 002?

Basically, how do you think a couple of these RNP's will work out with the Digi002?

[Adam Offer]

The other suggestion I saw from the responses I got was the Audient ASP008 (http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_audient_asp_microphone/)

I think the RNP's look a bit better than these, thought... but I'm not sure.

[Adam Offer]

WELL,
My friend pointed out that the Audient ASP008 only works with an HD system, and won't work with my digi002/ProTools LE setup.

Is this correct?
If so, that's out of the question.


I then proceeded to talk to him about the RNP's with the digi002:
He first stated that I could only run 2 FMR RNP's at a time with the digi002 (giving me 8 preamps total --> 4 FMR preamps and 4 Digirack preamps).

This left me with the decision of:
a) being restricted to only 8 preamps, but having 4 extremely solid sounding preamps (the RNP's).
or b) purchasing a lightpipe PreSonus or FocusRite leaving me with 12 preamps total, but leaving me with weaker sounding preamps.

In response to this, my friend told me:
"I don't know how much different it's going to sound with a 002 and absolutely no outboard gear. [...] What you have doesn't put you in a position to make 'money studio' records, and unless you want to drop like 30 grand MORE on a proper console set up, then you wouldn't need the RNP's anyways"


WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT EVERYTHING HE HAS SAID?

[mousdrvr]

Adam,

I made this upgrade. This very one. I highly recommend the RNP over the stock digi pre's BIG difference.

Shit Otek, not to fanboy you, but I just realized I've goten just about every piece of bang for the buck gear you recommend up here. Perhaps you should start a sticky. It could have your rational for not over buying gear, your rational for why a dynamic can work better than an LDC in less than great space.
ect...
It would be a God send for folks just getting started. Oh well just an idea.

-mous

[malice]

Adam,


Shit Otek, not to fanboy you, but I just realized I've goten just about every piece of bang for the buck gear you recommend up here. Perhaps you should start a sticky. It could have your rational for not over buying gear, your rational for why a dynamic can work better than an LDC in less than great space.
ect...


I have been caressing this idea myself. Like built a virtual quality inexpensive studio, and trying to keep the price tag really low without to many compromise, and make a never ending thread about it.

There is a thread at the DUC about building a PC for less than 1500$ that is stable and reliable.

Something similar about audio could be very useful here.

I'm gonna talk about this with Otek, and we will start this soon.

malice

[mousdrvr]

I have been caressing this idea myself. Like built a virtual quality inexpensive studio, and trying to keep the price tag really low without to many compromise, and make a never ending thread about it.

There is a thread at the DUC about building a PC for less than 1500$ that is stable and reliable.

Something similar about audio could be very useful here.

I'm gonna talk about this with Otek, and we will start this soon.

malice

Malice,

What a Christmas present!

Thank You

[Skwaidu]

WELL,
My friend pointed out that the Audient ASP008 only works with an HD system, and won't work with my digi002/ProTools LE setup.

Is this correct?
If so, that's out of the question.


Seems that your friend has it wrong... I googled up the Audient unit(haven't used it but have heard good comments regarding it) and it sports ADAT lightpipe out, so you could have 4 002 preamps- 4 analog line inputs and the audient on 8 adat inputs... Leaving the S/PDIF and 4 analog line inputs as spare.

That being said, the RNP's do sound really good. 4 ch RNP + 4 ch 002 as spares seems not bad at all! That is if you think that 8 chs would be ok for your everyday use... For big basic tracking sessions you could always rent/ borrow a lightpipe unit.

[otek]

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT EVERYTHING HE HAS SAID?

Well, you must know what I think already, because your friend pretty much regurgitated everything I've had to say on the topic so far.

Though he added a couple of things I don't necessarily agree with:

1) ...the Audient ASP008 only works with an HD system, and won't work with my digi002/ProTools LE setup.

I think we established that this is hogwash.

2) "I don't know how much different it's going to sound with a 002 and absolutely no outboard gear. [...] What you have doesn't put you in a position to make 'money studio' records, and unless you want to drop like 30 grand MORE on a proper console set up, then you wouldn't need the RNP's anyways"

While I agree in principle with your friend's statement on the inevitable quality advantage of a console and a "real" studio setup, much of it really doesn't have anything to do with the gear, but with the design and construction of the studio and control room. For every dollar you drop on gear, you should drop at least an equivalent amount on room treatment.

But to say that the RNP's are useless without a console is kind of pushing it. With some forethought and judicious room treatment, a good preamp will certainly enhance the quality of your recordings.

Finally, I totally agree with what Skwaidu said: For 98% of what I do in my "home studio" (a dinky little setup for songwriting, arrangements, editing and mixing), I get by with one or two channels. Maybe this is your case too? Will you be tracking full bands most of the time? If not, maybe you could buy one really high quality channel, and rent pres for the "heavier" tracking sessions?

[Brendo]

I own a 002r and an Mbox. I use my Mbox at home, the 002 only ever gets used when I'm recording outside the house, and even then, only when I need more than 2 channels... I have the crap Behringer 8 channel ADAT thing hooked up for a total of 12 pres including the 002's...

[otek]

the crap B**ringer 8 channel ADAT thing...

Just an aside, since you mention this.....

Import costs seem to shoot product retail through the roof at times Down Undah.....

What about the domestic gear down there? I've been using some ARX DI's and headphone amps, and I felt they were decent for the price. How about the ARX 8-pre and E-pre? Wouldn't they be a better investment than the Uli Holiday Specials?

[Adam Offer]

Couple Questions:

1. is he right that I can only get two RNP's to run with the digi002 [leaving me with 8 simultaneous preamps total]?

2. So the Audient ASP008 will work with my 002/LE? If so, that leaves me with 8 audient preamps and 4 on the digi (12 preamps total)?

3. The RNP's are better sounding then the audient I believe?

If this is all true, then I must decide whether to be trapped with only 8 preamps at once, and having 4 really, really solid sounding preamps... or having 12 preamps total, but having a weaker set of preamps.

[Brendo]

Just an aside, since you mention this.....

Import costs seem to shoot product retail through the roof at times Down Undah.....

What about the domestic gear down there? I've been using some ARX DI's and headphone amps, and I felt they were decent for the price. How about the ARX 8-pre and E-pre? Wouldn't they be a better investment than the Uli Holiday Specials?

The ARX gates make me want to puke up my entire intestinal tract. Never heard any of their other stuff, not that I'd want to after hearing the gates. Behringer gate > ARX gate.

[otek]

If this is all true, then I must decide whether to be trapped with only 8 preamps at once, and having 4 really, really solid sounding preamps... or having 12 preamps total, but having a weaker set of preamps.


You're not reading the replies very carefully, Adam.

Several posters have already been very clear about the fact that you can use the Lightpipe option on some of the 8-channel alternatives to connect the preamp to the 002 - and use all channels simultaneously. This leaves you with 4 unused analog inputs (the line/non-preamp analog inputs of the 002) which you can put to use later. This is not an either-or situation. You can still get two RNP's for the remaining inputs, and yes, since they feature two channels each, that will give you four channels of pre.

It's not an unequivocal fact that the RNP's are better than the Audient, either. Remember also, the Audient is almost twice the cost of the Focusrite. Price is not an absolute indicator (the RNP's are proof of this), but it's certainly suggestive.

[mousdrvr]

Couple Questions:

1. is he right that I can only get two RNP's to run with the digi002 [leaving me with 8 simultaneous preamps total]?

2. So the Audient ASP008 will work with my 002/LE? If so, that leaves me with 8 audient preamps and 4 on the digi (12 preamps total)?

3. The RNP's are better sounding then the audient I believe?

If this is all true, then I must decide whether to be trapped with only 8 preamps at once, and having 4 really, really solid sounding preamps... or having 12 preamps total, but having a weaker set of preamps.

Adam,

Not to be a pain, but would you mind telling us what exactly you will be doing with this set up. From your posts it sounds like you're pretty new to this and I'm really getting the feeling that you might have your priorities a little skewed. Exactly what you're recording, and WHERE you will be recording it are VERY relevant to what you will NEED as opposed to what you think is sexy to have.

-mous

[Skwaidu]

Ditto on Otek's and Mousdrvräs last posts.

[Adam Offer]

I actually talked with an employee of the Recording Section in SamAsh who seemed to know very well what he was talking about...

I was quite shocked when he told me the RNP's are "trash." He continued to explain that the store doesn't carry them because they don't wanna deal with the extreme amount of returns and complaints.

I don't know what to believe... as this experienced employee completely shuts down the idea of using RNP's, yet everyone here seems to speak quite highly of them.

[mousdrvr]

I actually talked with an employee of the Recording Section in SamAsh who seemed to know very well what he was talking about...

I was quite shocked when he told me the RNP's are "trash." He continued to explain that the store doesn't carry them because they don't wanna deal with the extreme amount of returns and complaints.

I don't know what to believe... as this experienced employee completely shuts down the idea of using RNP's, yet everyone here seems to speak quite highly of them.

OK sorry I called you a troll


-mous

[Adam Offer]

Adam,

Not to be a pain, but would you mind telling us what exactly you will be doing with this set up. From your posts it sounds like you're pretty new to this and I'm really getting the feeling that you might have your priorities a little skewed. Exactly what you're recording, and WHERE you will be recording it are VERY relevant to what you will NEED as opposed to what you think is sexy to have.

-mous

In response to Mous' request, hopefully giving you all a little more info will help... *and sorry to everyone who has been helping so much for my slight incoherence with everything that is going on (I am fairly new to this)... I appreciate all the help.*

Anyway... I'm working in my home studio that's about the size of maybe two standard bedrooms. I have a control room and a tracking room that was indeed built with acoustical necessities in mind. The rooms do also have moderate amounts of Auralux on the walls.

As for equipment, I'm currently using a MacPro computer with the Digi002 rack. I'm running on ProTools LE and currently have no board, but rather do all mixing 'in the box.' I'm using JBL LSR4328P (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR4328Ppak/) reference monitors.

As for purpose, I use the room for recording full bands and different types of projects. I probably will at some point do live studio recording, in which I would need more Preamps.

Right now, however, I'm working with the 4 preamps on the 002, and want to make sure that the next set of preamps I snatch are good quality.

The SamAsh employee requested just getting the PreSonus DigiMAX Fs 8-Channel Preamps (http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemPos=3&TempID=4&STRID=1527&Method=2&CategoryID=0&BrandID=0&PriceRangeID=0&PageNum=0&DepartmentID=0&pagesize=10&SortMethod=4&SearchPhrase=digimax&Contains=%2Adigimax%2A&Search_Type=SEARCH&GroupCode=), and said that they'd sound "a bit better than the 002 preamps." That seems like an easy and safe solution, but I'd like to find some better preamps. That's why I've come hear, to get more experienced suggestions...

So I've heard about the FMR RNP's (http://www.humbuckermusic.com/fmraudrnreal.html)... (but I can only get 4 pre's out of those with the 002, leaving me with only 8 total preamps). I'm also skeptical about those because I've gotton a couple mixed opinions about that.
The other suggestion was the Audient ASP008 (http://www.stirlingaudio.co.uk/prod_audient_asp008.htm) preamps... those right now seem like the best idea.

SO, that's my situation sum'd up for everyone who has so kindly spent time trying to help me out.
Hopefully now we can narrow down the choice.

THANKS SO MUCH GUYS. :Thumbsup:

[malice]

Very nice thing that you summed up the thread, it is better understandable for everyone in your situation.

I'm glad you considered my option. I worked with an Audient Desk, it is a good ans healthy console. I have heard of Aardy recordings thru audients pre, and it was clean, great sounding, and easy to mix.

It would be a very good choice

malice

[Brendo]

the fuck at scam ash was just pushing for the sell.

TRY some of this stuff maybe?

[otek]

Ok Adam, thanks for clarifying your thoughts and giving us a bit of background.

Just a couple of comments on what you said:

You have to realize that it's very rare to get a completely unbiased opinion from a retail outlet, simply because the guy you're talking to typically works on comission and has a very specific agenda with regards to the stuff he is or isn't pushing for. Sam Ash is one of the largest music retail stores in the US, and there may be several ulterior reasons for them not carrying FMR's stuff - one may be that FMR is a fairly small company which may or may not be able to supply the necessary volume. They may also be unable to provide big enough sales margins. Stocking low-percentage merchandise can be a low-yield situation for a large music store chain, and if the retailer doesn't make enough profit, it won't promote those brands or items.

If on the other hand you speak to people who are using the stuff, they have no reason to hand you false information - unless they are shills for a certain (typically large) company, or (more commonly) simply have no clue what they're talking about. Both are unfortunately real risks on the internet. Opinions will always be subjective, of course, regardless where they come from. Ultimately, it's you who will have to decide what works and what doesn't.

Now that you've explained a little about your background, and also appear willing to plunk down a few more Piasters on an Audient, I think you've come to a very sensible choice. This situation will give you a total of 12 simultaneously usable channels of preamp, which should be enough for most regular tracking sessions. It also leaves you room to grow: if at any point you want to complement your rig - with up to six more channels - there's an option to do so.

[otek]

I just read my post after Brendo's.

We are saying the same thing, though his version is arguably a bit more to the point. :lol:

[otek]

...And for the record, I've used the FMR RNP and RNC quite extensively, and they are very nice little units. I don't know what the typical complaint seems to be according to that sales rep of yours, but to me the FMR stuff is well worth the price.

YMMV of course.


otek

[Skwaidu]

Yeah, what Otek and Brendo said...

And about the RNP, I suggest that at the point when it *could* be on your shopping list, to give it a try. I'm pretty certain that you wouldn't be dissapointed... (1 own one and have been using it a bunch. Very happy, great bang for the buck.)

But maybe the 12 in solution(for a start) sounds closer to what you'd like if you're doing dums often...

[malice]

Yeah, what Otek and Brendo said...

And about the RNP, I suggest that at the point when it *could* be on your shopping list, to give it a try. I'm pretty certain that you wouldn't be dissapointed... (1 own one and have been using it a bunch. Very happy, great bang for the buck.)

But maybe the 12 in solution(for a start) sounds closer to what you'd like if you're doing dums often...

Yeah, the thing is that he can buy a couple of pres with more "character" for overdubs, lead vocals, or guitars.

with 12 ins, he can face a full band recording.

malice

[Brendo]

Someone suggested the Sytek unit to me when I was asking about a 4-pres-in-1RU to fill up the extra 4 on the 002... haven't tried it but it might be worth looking into...

[mousdrvr]

Adam,

Almost all the points, I was going to make have already been made. The only thing I wanted to add was that I thought You might have been placing too much emphasis on some abstract notion of "quality" which as Brendo points out you really can only determine for yourself.

Moreover, given that you're not at the extreme levels of "suck" or "rule" in terms of gear, factors like feature set and even ergonomics are actually pretty important. I have big love for my RNP, but it's gain pots have 6db detents, this doesn't bug me cause I run mine with the RNC and can use the make up gain on that for more control, but I could imagine trying to mic up a drum kit with a rack full of them might make that feature a real pain in the ass, although I'm sure folks have done it.

If I were faced with your situation I would have made the same choice. Based simply on the rec of folks up in here. I haven't even heard the unit in question but if the guys said "yeah" it's in the ball park, and I needed the functionality I'd go for it. So good on you for that.

Again I'm sorry I took you for a troll, but I was having a bad night and the thing about some half-wit at Sam Ash slagging FMR hacked me off, that was silly and I'm sorry. The truth is that not only does their stuff sound really good, they're a first class outfit, basically a Mom and Pop in Austin, and as far as I'm concerned they're all class. The first RNP I got did have a noisy channel. I called them up about it and they didn't give me a word of grief. They said "Go ahead and bang away on your good channel, your new one will be at your door in 3 days along with a prepaid package for the bad unit, just drop it in the mail when you get to it..... Here's your tracking number" 3 days later the replacement arrived and hasn't had a hiccup since. If you ever decide to get any of their stuff you can do so with confidence.


-mous

[Adam Offer]

I read into the Audient ASP008, and this review provides a couple of worries:

Audient ASP008 Review (http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_audient_asp_microphone/)

In the 'Impedance Control and Gain' section, some problems are discussed about recording quieter things, like a acoustic guitar or finger-plucked guitar.

The other problem it discusses is in the last section, the "Survey Says" section, where it discussed the slight problem in its ergonomics.

Do you think these are factors that are worth worrying about?
And, these preamps are definately worth the money over the PreSonus DigiMAX (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DigiMaxFS/) aren't they?

[mousdrvr]

Adam,

Forgive me but I thought this was about what you NEEDED right now. Like you had a full band coming in and were worried you didn't have the kit. If this is about getting a pre to address all once and future needs. I don't think that's practical. Besides the reviewer was referring to ribbons right? Are you now or have you ever been a Member of the Ribbonist Party?

Re the ergonomics, yeah maybe that would be a deal killer for you, but you won't know till you stick your hands on one, Would that be possible?

Look what I've been trying to say albeit poorly. Is that you are almost certainly going to get a piece that is not quite the right one, and that is not a bad thing.

I've owned like 6 different LDCs All of them were darlings of all the magazine reviewers ( which you can't EVER trust) and all but 2 where utter crap, even though I loved each like a new born child when I first got them. Now I could look at that like "wow mous you're an ass why didn't you do more research?" Or I could choose to look at that as an education. If I hadn't owned all those mics I wouldn't have ever learned to distinguish between them for my own self with my own ears. So my point is as long as you don't make a hideous mistake you can't really loose. You're not going to stop doing this shit. Normal people do but we're none of us normal. So this will absolutely NOT be the last Pre or set of pre's you're going to get. Just get something that's my $0.02



-mous

[malice]

No, you didn't totally catch the issues.

1) there is a slight problem of gain with RIBBON mikes with quiter source. Frankly, this is the case of many preamps. If you wich to use ribbons, I would suggest you purchase a couple of Hi gain preamps, but if you're not, the Audient will be sufficient in most situations.

2) the problem of ergonomic seems to be tight to the vicinity of the impedance control and the gain pot. I would say that it is a minor drawback, unless you have really fat fingers. I must say that an impedance control is much more appealing to me than an ergonomic problem. They could have done this unit with one knob less from the front panel, but you would have missed an interesting feature.

Sincerely, if you want to compare gear by reviews, it would only make sense that you compare two reviews from the same reviewer. Otherwise, you should try before you buy.

At least this one is consistent about information on the price tag.

[otek]

I read into the Audient ASP008, and this review provides a couple of worries

Adam, I think a lot of your worries are needless, based on your reading something in a magazine without fully grasping what the issue is about. All of those criticisms will have to be read in the context of your getting 8 channels of very decent-sounding preamp at a competitive price.

Like Malice already pointed out, ribbon mics have an inherently low output, so any preamp would struggle a bit on a quiet source like acoustic guitar.

And as for the "ergonomics" comment, even very expensive pieces of gear are sometimes cluttered (the Neve VR console is a good example). That's ok, you cherish the features and find out a way to work around the ergonomics. It's that simple.

[Brendo]

Adam. Dude.

1. When do you NEED to have all this stuff by?
2. WHY, do you NEED it by that date?
3. Are you actually fooling yourself into thinking you NEED it?
4. Could you get by with less? Do you already have a mixer lying around with 4 mic preamps in it, that you can use for now?

[eagan]

Been sitting here watching this over a few days with some interest and amusement.

I'm no expert an all the subtleties of all the bazillion separate mic preamps on the market today. Hardly. Yet, I must spew. I must! But there is a point to this.

I know nada about FMR and their goods.

But I do know that Le Mous said the following, and in telling you this, if you have concerns about FMR, he has told you everything you fucking need to know about these guys:


..... The truth is that not only does their stuff sound really good, they're a first class outfit, basically a Mom and Pop in Austin, and as far as I'm concerned they're all class. The first RNP I got did have a noisy channel. I called them up about it and they didn't give me a word of grief. They said "Go ahead and bang away on your good channel, your new one will be at your door in 3 days along with a prepaid package for the bad unit, just drop it in the mail when you get to it..... Here's your tracking number" 3 days later the replacement arrived and hasn't had a hiccup since. If you ever decide to get any of their stuff you can do so with confidence.


-mous

He, Brendo and Otek have already counseled you well, Adam. On several points. Not the least of which is, what do you need, as opposed to what have a bunch of magazines, salesmen, and other yammering humans have you convinced you should have if you want to be one of the cool kids?

Funny thing about salesmen, you will find that, amazingly enough, the exact right thing you need is, by an amazing coincidence, just what they have right there in the store, and such a deal they have on it for you, today.

That is a subject in itself that has little to do with any specific points about any particular mic preamps or digital audio interfaces and hybrid combinations thereof. That takes us into the subject of building a working relationship with a local and trusted equipment dealer who works on the basis of actually setting you up with what's really right for you, understanding that in the long run, this is what's going to build long term good business, not just wrenching the cash away from some random stranger as quickly as possible right now and moving on to the next target.

I'm not really the guy to advise you on any of the pieces you're looking at. Plenty of experience to draw on here from plenty of people with a lot of mileage. I'm an oddball here since my recording these days is all private home studio stuff that's mostly electronic in nature anyway. On the rare occasions where I need to set up to record an actual sound source in a room, I'll pull out a MXL condenser that would probably make most people here laugh and mock me for having and using such a cheap POS. But it's the only reasonably decent mic I have right now. Actually, now that I think about it, I'd have to dig through some cases to be sure, but it might be the only mic I have here right now. And then I plug it into this very humble tiny little Yamaha board.

In the past when I have recorded more conventional band stuff, well, I have never used any "standalone" mic preamp. Ever.

I know mic preamps. Yeah. Those are those things in a board that you have to stretch out your arms the furthest to reach where there's some knob labelled "gain" and some sort of attenuator pad pushbutton switch and a switch/switches that say stuff line "mic/line/tape", right?

The main point here is that I'm a tad amused by the obsession so many people have these days over the last few years with a whole flock of Fashion Designer mic preamps as the center of the universe of all audio recording.

From the sounds of it you're better off thinking in terms of getting a decent and truly suitable board for yourself that happens to have basic and simple and clean mic preamps on each channel. Just get something that routes and mixes signals and does not suck, and get on with it.


JLE