Anyone actually using Liquid Mix? Thoughts, examples?

[Dubnick]

So there's a rebate going on Liquid Mix right now and I guess the cheaper, 16 instance version is coming out as well and I'm interested, but I have yet to have a chance to check it out in person. Anyone own and use one and have any real world examples of it in use? I've heard the demos on the site, but they're not helpful to me really - I'm not as concerned with the accuracy of emulations as the general quality and number of sounds and usefulness. Also, any and all info on the downsides would be very helpful. I noticed a post on GS that made mention that of some reported aliasing artifacts caused by the Liquid Mix, but haven't been able to find the original source of this info - can any users confirm or deny this? Anyhow, in short (as you can see, I run-on a lot), I'm looking for some honest feedback from Liquid Mix users and maybe some examples of it in use!

[recall]

Do the test on focusrite's website, it may only tell you what it sounds like in an ideal setup but for me the emulations were good and I had difficulty telling what was what.

[6x2]

So there's a rebate going on Liquid Mix right now and I guess the cheaper, 16 instance version is coming out as well and I'm interested, but I have yet to have a chance to check it out in person. Anyone own and use one and have any real world examples of it in use? I've heard the demos on the site, but they're not helpful to me really - I'm not as concerned with the accuracy of emulations as the general quality and number of sounds and usefulness. Also, any and all info on the downsides would be very helpful. I noticed a post on GS that made mention that of some reported aliasing artifacts caused by the Liquid Mix, but haven't been able to find the original source of this info - can any users confirm or deny this? Anyhow, in short (as you can see, I run-on a lot), I'm looking for some honest feedback from Liquid Mix users and maybe some examples of it in use!

The best is to get one to play with and see how it works with your hardware setup (works miles better with HD than it did with LE) and what emulations you find useful.

Most of LM's emulations are pretty good, useable and have a nice flavour to them. If you look at the price tag and the extra sonic palette you get, the Liquid mix is a great unit. But don't expect that you'll get something that's equivalent to the originals, cause you will be dissapointed (well, the same applies to all plugins).

I really like the LM and I use it in every mix. It has some shortcomings and problems, but all in all, it's a good buy, IMHO.

Short list of shortcomings, problems:

-Occasionally, when re-opening a session, the plugin settings go insane. The problem goes away after a restart and it could be because of some other weird thing.

-When the firewire bus gets too crowded, the unit starts giving weird distortion or buzzing. You need a separate FW card to drive it if you use FW Hard drives or a FW audio interface.

-Some emulations sound bad. Most are useable, but some are just rubbish. Would've been better if they left the crappy ones out in the first place.

-In ProTools, after using keyboard input in the plugin window, you lose keyboard control of ProTools until you close the plugin.

Good things about it:

-Great value for money

-The good emulations sound very good

-The hardware controller is nice

6x2

[Knastratt]

I'm on a G5 10.4.11 - no glitches so far. Getting used in every project. A few of them are really good. But since I suck at mixing - who gives a shit.

Who am I kidding? Really!

Happy Easter - Pär

[Dubnick]

Do the test on focusrite's website, it may only tell you what it sounds like in an ideal setup but for me the emulations were good and I had difficulty telling what was what. I did the test a few times - I probably should have mentioned that - my main thing was that the examples they used didn't really reflect the way I use compression on a day to day basis, so I was hoping to hear so real world examples and/or testimonials as far as it's strengths and shortcomings go.

[meLoCo_go]

Hey! Anyone who has Liquid Mix here and willing to test?
I wanted to found out about aliasing in Liquid Mix but since I cannot find one near me (I can order it via mail only) I would be interesting if somebody can do a test and post results.
Here how it goes.
You must generate sine-wave sweep (say, 100-15000 Hz) and process it with LM (probably with emulation that you find more colored) and post result (192 mp3 would suffice). You may see how good/bad antialiasing works yourself - when sine wave goes up you may hear how harmonics go up and down - sounds like AM radio tuning. If such effect is clearly present antialiasing is not too good.

[Knastratt]

Hey! Anyone who has Liquid Mix here and willing to test?
I wanted to found out about aliasing in Liquid Mix but since I cannot find one near me (I can order it via mail only) I would be interesting if somebody can do a test and post results.
Here how it goes.
You must generate sine-wave sweep (say, 100-15000 Hz) and process it with LM (probably with emulation that you find more colored) and post result (192 mp3 would suffice). You may see how good/bad antialiasing works yourself - when sine wave goes up you may hear how harmonics go up and down - sounds like AM radio tuning. If such effect is clearly present antialiasing is not too good.

How about tryying to WORK with'em. Just my... Never mind.

[meLoCo_go]

How about tryying to WORK with'em. Just my... Never mind.
Hey, I'd be glad too. But. I can't try it, I don't know of any around me. And also, there's a geek in me that NEEDS to KNOW:lol:

[Dubnick]

Hey, I'd be glad too. But. I can't try it, I don't know of any around me. And also, there's a geek in me that NEEDS to KNOW:lol:+1 here - there are no demo units at my local GC and I think the aliasing thing is a genuine thing to be concerned about - it's part of the reason I'm asking for feedback on it.

[peeder]

OK I'll fire it up and try this with the latest 2.2 beta. (2.2 fixes the lack-of-bass bug in 2.0)

Although I will say that if there is an aliasing problem, running at 88.2/96KHz would solve it. However, you only get 8 channels at that rate, unless you have the add-on card which would give you 16.

Hey! Anyone who has Liquid Mix here and willing to test?
I wanted to found out about aliasing in Liquid Mix but since I cannot find one near me (I can order it via mail only) I would be interesting if somebody can do a test and post results.
Here how it goes.
You must generate sine-wave sweep (say, 100-15000 Hz) and process it with LM (probably with emulation that you find more colored) and post result (192 mp3 would suffice). You may see how good/bad antialiasing works yourself - when sine wave goes up you may hear how harmonics go up and down - sounds like AM radio tuning. If such effect is clearly present antialiasing is not too good.

[peeder]

OK so I took a look (sweeps made via Make a test tone and visualized on izotope RX) and what I found wasn't as much aliasing as it was this almost moire pattern, which I imagine is an artifact of the dynamic convolution. Most plugins that generate harmonics alias it appears, and the Liquid Mix's aliasing wasn't much worse than theirs. But the moire pattern, almost a basket-weave kind of thing on the spectrogram, was different. It's down a good 90db or so, happens at any sample rate, and will survive dithering to 16bit.

I'd have to do a better job of studying this before I posted images or soundfiles, but that's what I found. This might make the LiquidMix emulations seem a touch "grainy" which has been my experience with them, but it's going to be very hard to pick stuff out down that low in a dense mix. A nice wash of noise will cover those sins...these were visible on absolutely pure 24 bit test tones and real-world files with the noise from preamps etc. might not display these issues at all.

[Justin Greed]

I've never used any of the hardware that's emulated, so I cant vouch for accuracy. But even with the wide pallette of high end plugs I have access to it gets major burn on nearly every 44k/48k project. The compressors have their own "Mojo/Sound and the EQ's all have their own distinct personality. I've never been much of a HUI person except for the mouse. I've always felt comfortable using a GUI. But I always finds myself tweaking the settings using the LM controller. The emulation sound very good to my ears, I've never had any technical issues with the box and the potential for future emulation and expansion are great. I tend to mix my own personal music at 96k so that's the only time I don't really use it.

[Chris Lambrechts]

I remember playing with it at the Frankfurter messe last year and my impression was basically the same I got when I first got my hands on a Liquid Channel ....


It's a toy ... a gadget and frankly ... in a somewhat serious (read pro environment) near to unusable and a drag ...


why ?


1 word : Latency ....



And with latency I mean changing any parameter ... EQ for example is NOT possible in real time.

Meaning : when you turn a knob and change the value, one should be able to HEAR that change instantly ... not like 2 seconds later.

Good luck finding a specific frequency accurately when you know that by the time you hear it you may as well be 2k up with your knob.

Treshold on a comp ... yeah right ... try setting that one when you hear the result of your setting come by the time the singer has started the last chorus.

OK ... I exagourate as usual but seriously ... for the price ... get something else.

Again ... don't care how good the quality of the processing is if the process is unusable.


Blah .........


Chris

[Dubnick]

I remember playing with it at the Frankfurter messe last year and my impression was basically the same I got when I first got my hands on a Liquid Channel ....


It's a toy ... a gadget and frankly ... in a somewhat serious (read pro environment) near to unusable and a drag ...


why ?


1 word : Latency ....



And with latency I mean changing any parameter ... EQ for example is NOT possible in real time.

Meaning : when you turn a knob and change the value, one should be able to HEAR that change instantly ... not like 2 seconds later.

Good luck finding a specific frequency accurately when you know that by the time you hear it you may as well be 2k up with your knob.

Treshold on a comp ... yeah right ... try setting that one when you hear the result of your setting come by the time the singer has started the last chorus.

OK ... I exagourate as usual but seriously ... for the price ... get something else.

Again ... don't care how good the quality of the processing is if the process is unusable.


Blah .........


Chris

Good call as far as the latency when interfacing with the hardware goes, although I'm not sure that would bother me too much - I'd just use the GUI instead. The latency of the plug-ins themselves wouldn't bother me too much either, since I don't mix in PT LE much at home (usually Logic 8 these days). However, I'm still curious to hear how bad the artifacts, if any, are and how it sounds in a more realistic context than in the posted liquid challenge thing. Oh well.

[Slobby]

Good call as far as the latency when interfacing with the hardware goes, although I'm not sure that would bother me too much - I'd just use the GUI instead. The latency of the plug-ins themselves wouldn't bother me too much either, since I don't mix in PT LE much at home (usually Logic 8 these days)

Have to disagree on the latency issue, especially under Logic

I'm using Logic 8.01, and the hardware the GUI and the track are in realtime sync (read: instant). Here is a really bad YouTube video of me twiddling my knob(s) to prove it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi9I6gKsejU

Gotta love PDC. :grin:

Mine is running under Beta 2.2 of the Liquid Mix manager software (well, someone's gotta test it).

I suspect Chris's experience at musicmesse may have been tainted by seeing it run under an early version of the software (and probably PT LE, i.e. no PDC).

Sample latency now goes down to 264, which is probably still not fast enough for tracking, but why would you want to?

As for Chris's assertion that this thing is toy and a gadget, well isn't most gear?

I like this particular toy a lot, and when me and the other geeks gather down at the gadget corral the Liquid Mix is as popular a topic as chewin' terbaccy.

Seriously, to me it sounds good. Lots if flavours and colours to pick from and it sounds analogue-y. To me a touch more sterile, a little colder, if you like, than the real thing. And it seems to have that digital characteristic of retaining the wideness of the original sound rather than the adding quite as much of the gentle smoothing, subtle top and tailing and transparent compression that seems to occur organically with good analogue equipment.

But I've got two tin ears, so what would I know. YMMV.

[Justin Greed]

[QUOTE=Slobby;123159]Have to disagree on the latency issue, especially under Logic

Sample latency now goes down to 264, which is probably still not fast enough for tracking, but why would you want to?

Agreed :Thumbsup:

Latency is not an issue with my LM/Nuendo/PC rigs. I give the thing its own Firewire port and it's as responsive as any other Plug I use.

[6x2]

I remember playing with it at the Frankfurter messe last year and my impression was basically the same I got when I first got my hands on a Liquid Channel ....

So you've not actually used it.

Latency-wise, it works like a charm.

EDIT: I don't mean processing latency, but the latency Chris was talking about, the "user interface latency".

[jord]

Have to agree with 6x2... never have had any latency problems as far as the UI was concerned. Even when automating some of the controls, it works like a charm.

jord

[Dubnick]

[QUOTE=Slobby;123159]Have to disagree on the latency issue, especially under Logic

Sample latency now goes down to 264, which is probably still not fast enough for tracking, but why would you want to?

Agreed :Thumbsup:

Latency is not an issue with my LM/Nuendo/PC rigs. I give the thing its own Firewire port and it's as responsive as any other Plug I use.Are you refering to latency in terms of the plug-in's latency or the delay between adjusting a knob and the adjustment being reflected within the plug? As far as I've ever witnessed, Logic Pro has full Plug-in delay compensation for any plug that accurately reports the delay in incurs to the host, and even those that don't, so long as you use something like Expert Sleeper's latency fixer to report the delay. Also, in general, how do you like the Liquid Mix? Do you have any mixes where you used it heavily that you'd like to share?

[jord]

Although I'm not Slobby, I have have been using the Liquid Mix for almost a year and half and like it very much as well and use it heavily. As far as mixes go, I can't put up any client stuff but I think you know where to find my stuff. :)

jord

[Justin Greed]

Like Logic Nuendo also provides auto compensation for latency. I wont say that it does not exist but I do not notice any latency when tweaking the GUI or knobs. I don't post my music on the net no snobbery or fear of rejection I just don't do it. :D I may be the only person on earth with no Myspace page LOL. :lol:

LM is a cool wee box that has an array of cool sounding plugs. I've been happy with it and wont be getting rid of it anytime soon. See if your local music store has an open Box or will allow you to set up a demo at the store. The folks at the GC in my area let me install the thing on my Lappy and tweak away on my head phones for an hour or so. But as with most things its subjective and YMMV

[meLoCo_go]

Well, there was a question about something objective - presence of aliasing artifacts. So, seems like nobody is willing to do a little test?:Confused: