Proposal for comments for MiXiT 4

[MacGregor]

G'day,

- having nearly 100 mixes for MiXiT 3 it's nearly impossible to comment on every mix

- usually the first submissions get a lot of comments, that last ones less

My proposal:

- everyone who submits a mix must comment on the following 10 (or whatever number seems approriate) following submission.

- if your mix is one of the last submission (so maybe only 3 mixes are submitted after yours) you'll start over at the beginning

Examples: lest assume we have 81 mixes available

- mixerdude 1 comments on the mixes 2-11
- mixerdude 2 comments on the mixes 3-12
- mixerdude 3 comments on the mixes 4-13
...
...
- mixerdude 71 comments on the mixes 72-81
- mixerdude 72 comments on the mixes 73-81 and mix 1
- mixerdude 73 comments on the mixes 74-81 and 1-2
- mixerdude 74 comments on the mixes 75-81 and 1-3
...
...
- mixerdude 80 comments on mix 81 and mixes 1-9
- mixerdude 81 comment on the mixes 1-10

This way everyone has only a limited number of mixes to comment, and everyone gets the same number of comments.

The only downside I see is that it makes most sense to wait until the submission deadline before commenting starts, if not dude no. 1 waits a long time for the first comment about his mix.

Maybe (but that'll be a discussion on its own) everyone can name his favorite/most interesting/whatnot of the mixes he commented on, and those favorites are discussed be the whole gang.


Whaddaya think?

Mac
.

[tannoy]

Hi Mac,

cool idea! We were discussing on that (and still do) at this thread:

http://thewombforums.com/showthread.php?t=7464

Take a look!

Best,

Marco.

[CaptainHook]

The only problems i see are that there are some who i believe
are better at critiquing. Better than me at least. I also see
that there are some who are in a better position to make
more meaningful comments. (Their monitoring may be much
better, more experience, whatever) Again, better than me.

Imagine you, ChrisJ, etc all happen to post in a row. Lucky
for the guys in your 'line' but what about the guys who
all happen to be possibly mixing for the first time all posting
together then critiquing JUST themselves.

Obviously extreme, but you know what i mean..?

I hate to say some peoples comments/critiques aren't worth
as much as others, but the reality is, it's true.

Good idea though, i understand where you're coming from.
This aint easy, and i have no better solution.

[wintergod]

Great idea,
kinda like garageband.com,
If you don't know, you have
to 'review' like 20 songs, then
your song gets reviewed.

It's a cool idea.

:Thumbsup:

[gitarted]

I think this is a great idea.

You've got my vote here.

[paulie]

Sorry to piss on the parade, but all with love, I think this is a poor idea, I'm gonna' echo what hooky said.

"Mixit Event 3 - what if Mixerman asked you to mix it for him?"

I did mix it for mixerman, as I would if I was hired by him.

Because of this, I paid attention to what was written by MM and Ryan in the band about the general direction and feel of the song to get an idea of what their expectations were for the finished product, same as I would if I were given any mix to do.

I'm aware that MM said pretty much "you make your choices" he also said things like (sorry MM but I'm paraphrasing here) "the vocal is everything", "the 'forgive me' section should be bringing you to tears" etc.

As such MM's comments about my mix will be the most meaningful to me, not somebody who feels the track should sound like Pantera. So I think this idea is flawed, sorry.

I would be more inclined to mix for a selected panel of judges because then it becomes more like real life and less like an ego-fest. After all in the real world the producer, the act and the record company all form a panel of their own that, like it or not, you have to please or you don't eat.

For me personally, I would like those judges to be experienced and excelling in their field.

I'm not saying that I won't listen to anyone else's comments or that nobody else should be allowed to comment - that's stupid. But for a bunch of people all coming up to be reviewing another bunch of people all coming up is like the blind leading the blind.

Apologies again for being so negative, but I always prefer to notice the elephant in the room.

Maybe there should be a "MixIt locker room" where you post the mix you would have liked to have made beat-detectived, sped up to 127bpm and turned into a banging French house tune.:lol:

All the best.

Paulie.

[wintergod]

As such MM's comments about my mix will be the most meaningful to me, not somebody who feels the track should sound like Pantera. So I think this idea is flawed, sorry.


Surely you cant expect mixerman to sit through and critique
90+ Mixes?

I would be more inclined to mix for a selected panel of judges because then it becomes more like real life and less like an ego-fest. After all in the real world the producer, the act and the record company all form a panel of their own that, like it or not, you have to please or you don't eat.


I agree, maybe there could be 10 'chosen ones' and they can
each listen to and critique ten mixes?

I do totally hear ya tho man, the original idea is slightly flawed if people like me are going around critiquing other peoples mixes
:Wink:

[MacGregor]

As such MM's comments about my mix will be the most meaningful to me, not somebody who feels the track should sound like Pantera. So I think this idea is flawed, sorry.


Think a bit further, and you'll notice that your idea of my idea being flawed is flawed :grin:

Mixerman won't listen to your mix!
Period.
Why should he? Your one of a zillion (tendency increasing) who has submitted a mix. No one special.

Even before he explicitly stated this fact it was very clear to me that he wouldn't have the time/energy/braindeadness to listen to more than 100 mixes.

But he will surely listen to a couple of them, but which ones?

See, and here you'll notice why my proposal suddenly makes a tiny little bit of sense.
WE, the mixers and mixtresses, will pre-filter the entries. Of course this filtering has it flaws and is highly subjective, but it's much better than waiting for the once in a lifetime chance to get your mix critiqued by Mixie or Charles or whoever.

If your mix IS somehow good and/or interesting, it will show up when 10 (or 20 or whatever number we'll decide) people have listened to it and named a favorite, no matter if this people are professional mixerdoods of bloody beginners.

And after that, only about 10 or so mixes are left, and everyone (including Mixerman and Charles) actually have a chance to do a in deep review.

Mac
.

[paulie]

Mixerman won't listen to your mix!
Period.
Why should he? Your one of a zillion (tendency increasing) who has submitted a mix. No one special.



Well thanks buddy for that glowing review.:lol:

I'm sure even your close ones think you're special!

Let's get one thing straight here. I'm not a MM fanboy by any stretch - you'll just have to trust me on that one:Roll eyes:

I think you are mistaken, please allow me to reiterate.

I mixed this track with Mixerman and Strange Faces in mind. As such, their comments (Ryan's too) would be the most meaningful. MM's comments would be useful from a technical standpoint because:

I know his track record
He's a better mixer than me
He's impartial - it's his job as moderator
Any advice he imparts will be drawn from a background of solid experience in the industry.

I can't say the same for 90% of everyone else on the forums.

Comments? yes, fine. Meaningful? only maybe.

That said, if MM critiques ANYONE's mixes. I'm sure there will be plenty to learn and I'll be a happy man.

As for your idea, if everyone wants it, fine. I see alot of potential for rampant egotism, bad blood & slanging matches.

I would rather engage say, all the moderators, 10 mixes each, pass 3 of their choice (for whatever their reasons) up to the next stage. I would also suggest that if the size of the event becomes unmanageable, then a waiting list would be fair with a finite amount of mixers taking part each time.

Just my opinion.

Paulie.

[MacGregor]

Well thanks buddy for that glowing review.:lol:

I'm sure even your close ones think you're special!

Let's get one thing straight here. I'm not a MM fanboy by any stretch - you'll just have to trust me on that one:Roll eyes:


Read my posting again until you understand.
As long as you're no one he knows personally he most probably won't comment on your mix. Not on mine, either. That has nothing to do with the quality of your mix.

We have to pre-filter. Not the mods. Not Mixie. They won't have the time.
What is so hard to understand here?

Mac
.

[StrangeFaces]

I'll be making comments on mixes soon. I've just been very busy and we have a show tomorrow night. I am going to try to catch up by this weekend. I am also going to try to listen to every single mix that comes in.

-Ryan

[norman_damon]

I agree that there should be a review system with tiers and choice picks ... it would encourage more people to submit reviews, and a shorter song list would allow for more in-depth and focused reviews.

Those who are generous with their time could always review more mixes I suppose.

[paulie]

Read my posting again until you understand.

Mac, I did and I do. Perfectly:)


As long as you're no one he knows personally he most probably won't comment on your mix. Not on mine, either.
That has nothing to do with the quality of your mix.


Understood. Wouldn't presume to put words in his mouth, but you most likely presume rightly - if someone doesn't bring a mix to his attention, right? See I DO understand what you're proposing.

The bit about being special in my previous post was meant light-heartedly BTW. Note use of smilies!


We have to pre-filter. Not the mods.


This is where I disagree with you for all the reasons I stated in my second post on this thread. Why do we HAVE to pre-filter? I think there's already been a couple of alternatives suggested here, check 'em out.

I don't even mind if none of the big guys comment, the experience of mixing some nicely tracked material and a great song was enough to make it worth the effort.

All I meant was, having "mixed it for mixerman" with THIS song and Strange Faces in mind, their comments/ critique would make the most sense to me. If he doesn't get to hear it well, that's just life aint it? What I'm not so sure about is us all reviewing each other because, of all the reasons I pointed out in my second post. Comments are fine though.


What is so hard to understand here?


Nothing. You make your point perfectly eloquently. I just disagree that's all. I thought I had made my points perfectly eloquently too. Maybe not. It's really not a big deal to me.

All the best to you and good luck.

Paulie.

[MacGregor]

Why do we HAVE to pre-filter?


We have the time. We have agreed to participate, and IMO this means also to give some feedback.
But having about 100 mixes most people won't comment (heck, I haven't even started this time). My proposal is just one possible solution to a) avoid to much comments to make and b) receive not enough comments.
There may be better ideas (I'll check them out), that's not the question, but I don't think (like you said) "it's a poor idea".

Mac
.

[billy_gimp]

I would be more inclined to mix for a selected panel of judges because then it becomes more like real life and less like an ego-fest. After all in the real world the producer, the act and the record company all form a panel of their own that, like it or not, you have to please or you don't eat.

Who ever told you that in 'reality' things of this nature are less of an ego-fest told you grave lies... Either that or you may sure well be kidding yourself.

Besides if a panel like that perhaps wanted you to mix something for them, they'd either want you to do it because they know what to expect from you, or they want your name stamped to it, Otherwise thats a big risk on their behalf... and stooges aren't known too well for taking risks.

a drop in the Ocean.

[paulie]

Who ever told you that in 'reality' things of this nature are less of an ego-fest told you grave lies... Either that or you may sure well be kidding yourself.


Nope. Nobody told me either - talking from experience here, not as a mixer, but as an artist who rejected a mix along with the producer because a named mixer took a delicate song and turned it into a cheesy power ballad. Not what that band was all about.

Yes, the company chose him because of his track record - they're in the business of selling records, but even they knew that this was the wrong mix for us so they had to bite the bullet.

So are all mixers egotists? Yes, I agree with you, alot of them are and maybe that's a job requirement!

However, I think the smart ones can steer a middle ground between doing what they do while thinking about what sort of journey the artist is on. This is why I keep banging on about "I mixed it for mixerman" etc etc.

The remixers are more likely the ones you give stuff to and say "just do your thing". Hence my previous comment about the mixit locker room.

This probably deserves a thread in itself where the guys actually doing the job can comment. I'm commenting on experiences from 15 years ago. Maybe these days mixers just do what they want, anyhow I'll know next time.

Paulie.

[Knastratt]

I did not mix for MM or Strange Faces. I mixed for the song. Even if the job came from MM I'm not mixing it to what I'd believe he would've done. I'm mixing it the song's way.

I love this opportunity to mix those well tracked files. Thanks for the chance. It's one hell of a song.

Thanks MM and Strange Faces. I'll conform to any idea of commenting the mixes.

Cheers - Pär

[CaptainHook]

I did not mix for MM or Strange Faces. I mixed for the song. Even if the job came from MM I'm not mixing it to what I'd believe he would've done. I'm mixing it the song's way.

The song that was arranged, performed, recorded, and written
by Strange Faces with Mixerman you mean?

I personally can't separate the influence of MM or Strange Faces
from the song, as it wouldn't be what it is in the slightest
without them.

Mixing for 'the song' IS mixing for MM/SF.

IMHO, YMMV, etc, etc

[Knastratt]

The song that was arranged, performed, recorded, and written
by Strange Faces with Mixerman you mean?

I personally can't separate the influence of MM or Strange Faces
from the song, as it wouldn't be what it is in the slightest
without them.

Mixing for 'the song' IS mixing for MM/SF.

IMHO, YMMV, etc, etc

By definition - of course. I just wonder how many listened to MM's approach and you know, tried to... Nevermind. :Roll eyes:

:very happy:

[annex2]

MacGregor:
I like your idea. I was hoping to get through everyone's mix, but there is just too many and I have been overwhelmed with work stuff. With your suggestion/intent in mind, I started at the end and started moving forward toward the front of the pack with my listening and critiques. I too noticed that folks submitting near the end of the window were less likely to get reviewed. I will be posting my 15 or so critiques later today I hope. I believe I got through about the last 20% of mixes submitted. To be posted soonest.

G'day,

- having nearly 100 mixes for MiXiT 3 it's nearly impossible to comment on every mix

- usually the first submissions get a lot of comments, that last ones less

My proposal:

- everyone who submits a mix must comment on the following 10 (or whatever number seems approriate) following submission.

- if your mix is one of the last submission (so maybe only 3 mixes are submitted after yours) you'll start over at the beginning

Examples: lest assume we have 81 mixes available

- mixerdude 1 comments on the mixes 2-11
- mixerdude 2 comments on the mixes 3-12
- mixerdude 3 comments on the mixes 4-13
...
...
- mixerdude 71 comments on the mixes 72-81
- mixerdude 72 comments on the mixes 73-81 and mix 1
- mixerdude 73 comments on the mixes 74-81 and 1-2
- mixerdude 74 comments on the mixes 75-81 and 1-3
...
...
- mixerdude 80 comments on mix 81 and mixes 1-9
- mixerdude 81 comment on the mixes 1-10

This way everyone has only a limited number of mixes to comment, and everyone gets the same number of comments.

The only downside I see is that it makes most sense to wait until the submission deadline before commenting starts, if not dude no. 1 waits a long time for the first comment about his mix.

Maybe (but that'll be a discussion on its own) everyone can name his favorite/most interesting/whatnot of the mixes he commented on, and those favorites are discussed be the whole gang.


Whaddaya think?

Mac
.

[JoshRose]

I definitely think there is reason to examine our reviewing process. I'm not sure if this is the perfect solution, but I think this is a discussion that we need to have.

Not that I have a better idea.

[strangedays]

I think I can offer some points as I arrived here after all 3 mixits and so viewed them from more of an onlooker who used them to his advantage.

1. What has been created so far on this forum is an absolute mindfield of information and experience and quite frankly has to be the best collection of help I have ever seen anywhere period (and I have been serching).

2. Mixits appear to be getting better in terms of organisation due to a clearer idea of how this is working, after all I don't think there is much like this, in this style, elsewhere on the web.

3. I have learnt the most from taking the older mixits and remixing them from scratch again and again. I remixed mixit2 6 times before I started to get a grip. Sometimes the comments are really useful, I actually like finding out how I might have made some critical errors and this I can see when I compair my mix to others

4. If I get to a point where someone says, ooh, not sure if I like the reverb on there, thats great, but very subjective, wheres if an instument blatently sound harshs and out of contaxt or missing some help to cut it through or someones compressed the living shit outa something and they not made to realise that this aint the way to go, not until you know what you doing it for.....these are funadamental points - errors with their technical understanding of the kit. from a musical perspective its like trying to play Hendrix in your first guitar lesson and missing half the notes, that might be an interpretation, but its just inexperienced!

So my points are a little varied, but to make it into a heirachy of a competition may actually be a waste of time. Musics biggest enemy is competition in my view. I think that those who come here are looking to learn how to control their mix of music (and sound).

My analogy is this.. to liken a mix to the guitar: Anyone can learn to play the guitar, the ones that can play well will get noticed! So lets all worry about at least playing the guitar and I think the better mixes will jump through.

Oh and the point of commenting, I think we can all judge a good mix, we might not be able to judge technical details so well and I don't think you should have to judge if you don't want to in fact I would discourage anyone from judging unless they really feel confident about what they want to say - um... yea I think I went back on myself there but its an open thing I like round here.


This all depends of course just how many are going to apply for mixit 4 as numbers could become scary!:icon_eek:

[qharley]

I think having a voting system could help

1. No voting before the submission deadline - not crits either.
2. You have to review n submissions before your submission will be considered for level promotion
3. Only x amount of reviews are allowed per song, giving the "other guys" a chance of being reviewed
4. Moderators will "spot check" a hand full random submissions, to make sure that the masses are not trying to eliminate the competition, so to speak.
5. Y amount of " best reviews will be promoted to be reviewed by the pros...

Let's get MiXiNG!!!

[tannoy]

Hi,

I think MacGregor's idea is the one which is most easily realizable.



2. You have to review n submissions before your submission will be considered for level promotion


Makes sense and I like it, but someone would have to constantly keep a watch on the reviews participants have given and put them in for being reviewed, if they've reviewed enough. Now that's a sentence with some reviews and sense in it, isn't it ?

:Roll eyes:


4. Moderators will "spot check" a hand full random submissions, to make sure that the masses are not trying to eliminate the competition, so to speak.

ALERT! The bad word has been written!!!

This is not a competition....see attachment.

:grin:


Cheers,

Marco

[qharley]

ALERT! The bad word has been written!!!

This is not a competition....

:grin:


Didn't think so... I just know people - and I am from Africa... Here everything is a competition!

Thanks for the reminder! :Wink:

Quentin