What do you think of this?

[StudioF]

Please give this a listen and let me know what you guys think.

Ernie

[dnafe]

Hey SF

Caveat Laptop, headphones, yada yada


Vocals could come up in the mix.

Have you thought of losing the synth in the background in certain sections. It's making this song rather one dimensional.

Dropping it in spots or changing to a different pad will give the listener a break from the sameness of the instrumantal arrangement and hopefully keep them interested...

The bass seems to get lost in the drone/din of the synths in spots but that could be my headphones

All in all a nice safe mix and well recorded from what I can hear.

Don

[seagate]

Laptop and headphones here as well...

Really like the song, but agree about the vocals, they need to come up.

The pads don't bother me (I can hear 2 patches being used), but the lack of change does. I keep waiting for a bigger chorus or something to create a bit of excitement...

Well done.


http://www.msc.id.au/private/tmp/santa.gif

[aframe9999]

synths.....I agree. bring them in for the second verse. or drop them for the second verse. or something



vox......I agree. up just smidge....

otherwise, nice clean mix.

cool

[StudioF]

thanks for the replies.
I've been working on the suggestions and will repost the track when it's done.
Ernie

[Mixerman]

Other than the lead vocal being too bright and at least 3db too low, it's a good mix.

The verses aren't being sung very well. If I was producing this, I would really have to think about how to approach those verses. They are VERY square, and she's breaking up phrases across 4 bar patterns. To make matters worse, the first two lines of the chorus are just as square. It improves dramatically after that.

I'm not really sure what to suggest with those verses. But I can tell you they aren't effective right now. Had I not been willing to listen until the end in advance, I would have shut the song off in the midle of verse one. What's really sad about that, is when it first came on, I was pulled into the song. The insanely loud synth drew me in. I was intrigued as to what this song was going to become.

Then when the vocal came in, I thought the singer was lousy, on top of the awkward phrasing. But then by the time she got into the chorus, I was pleasantly surprised. But a song has to push me forward. Not push me to the skip button.

I don't know who is who here. I need to know what your role is in the project. Are you the producer? Engineer? Are you the songwriter? If not, who is the writer? The advice that I would dispense in this case would be dependant on the roles of the people involved. If you could fill in that part of the puzzle, I'll come back with some suggestions on how to deal with this situation.

My guess is, the singer did not write this song. I think she is just as mystified by these verses as I am. That's my guess, let's see if I'm right.

Mixerman

[StudioF]

Hey MM,
Thanks for the reply. As far as who is who...
The singer did write the song and produced the vocal track.
I'm responsible for the band.
Let me know what you think. I've also posted a newer mix taking into account some of the previous posts.

That being said..... I could use some suggestions or comments on the bottom end. I'm never 100% confident of the kick/bass and gtr/bass relationships. They never feel really clear and focused and I'm not sure about how to accomplish this.
Thanks again.
Ernie

[Mixerman]

Well, tell the singer that Mixerman said to rewrite the verses.

They're awkward, square, and don't push the song forward in an effective way. Breaking up phrases in two parts across 3 bars can be done once, maybe even twice in a song. But not every line in the verse. And I can tell by listening to her, that even SHE is confused as to how to implement an effective delivery.

You can give her all of my comments on this. I havent listened to the new mix, because at this point it's irrelevant.

EDIT: Okay, I just listened to the mix. The vocal is way too low. 3db too low.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[BIGDOG]

I really like this song!!! Music and vocals rock!!!

[BIGDOG]

Hey Mixerman. Checking out this site. Enjoying reading this post.
I really liked the song "Real" posted by StudioF. I thought it was sung well. The singer has a nice voice. Very different sounding. As stated before a refreshing sound. I thought the delivery was quite emotional. Not square. Come on?

[Mixerman]

Hey Mixerman. Checking out this site. Enjoying reading this post.
I really liked the song "Real" posted by StudioF. I thought it was sung well. The singer has a nice voice. Very different sounding. As stated before a refreshing sound. I thought the delivery was quite emotional. Not square. Come on?

You're the singer, right?

I'm not trashing the song. In fact, if I didn't think the song had potential, I wouldn't mention anything at all about it.

As a listener, albeit a relatively informed and knowledgeable one in regards to the craft of songwriting, you lost me on the verses. In a real-world situation I would have never made it to the chorus. Once I finished the chorus it was a different ball game for me. I was convinced that you're a good singer. And I thought the song had potential. The chorus was probably excellent, but I was still so baffled by the verse..

Now, I did not say that I didn't like your song. I gave you some very constructive criticism, that had you come to me as a producer with this song, I would have provided before you actually recorded it. And If I was producing the song, we would have fixed those verses, even iff we had to spend a day, finding a solution that you found acceptable.

If you want to pat yourself on the back for a job well done and leave it at that, then by all means you should. But at some point you are going to come back to this song and realize that everything I said about it was spot on. Why am I so sure? Because I know exactly how you feel about this criticism. I know exactly why you're reacting in this manner. And I understand how difficult it is to kill your babies.

I never said that you wouldn't be able to find listeners that loved the song exactly as it is (which I would imagine is part of your rationale of your post here). But right now it is falling short from having a universal appeal as a song, mostly because it doesn't push me forward to the chorus.

You MUST push the listener forward with your music. You do that with rhyme structure, melodic structure, rhythmic accelleration, and by keeping the attention of the listener onto a compelling lyric sung and phrased in a manner that feels like one is being spoken to. Only occasionally can you break away from that basic tennant of phrasing. The greatest singers in the world phrase in such a way that you are drawn into the song. You are not doing this in the verses.

I have now spent about 30 minutes of my life providing you with a detailed explanation, not once, but twice, of exactly WHY the song falls short, and exactly WHAT part of the song you need to fix. If that is trashing a song and singer to you, then you should quit the business entirely, because frankly you just can't take it.

And if you're somehow not the singer, or willing to pretend same, then please tell me why the fuck would you care what I have to say about the song?

Hope all that helps,

Mixerman

[seagate]

And if you're somehow not the singer, or willing to pretend same, then please tell me why the fuck would you care what I have to say about the song?

:lol:

[BIGDOG]

Okay busted!!! You shook me up. I've been receiving very positive response to the song. I simply believe in myself as a songwriter but believe me, I'm not so over the top that I am closed to criticism and advice. I do respect you as a producer, mixer, musician and your advice has been very important to me. I had a real hard time with being called a "lousy" singer. As of less than a year ago I learned how to play the guitar, sing and write songs. "Real" was actually the second song I'd ever written. I know I have a long way to go and realize I have a lot to learn and I AM COMPLETELY OPEN. My approach to the verse was to tell my story, singing softly but straight with emotion then come in stronger with the chorus and bridge. I understand how important it is to grab the listener from the beginning. I thought I was. I am working on the verse. Thanks for the advice and you can critique my songs anytime. I CAN TAKE IT. BRING IT ON.

[dwoz]

With utmost respect to Mixerman, "I disagree".

I don't think the MAIN problem is with the vocal phrasing (although that isn't entirely pulled together either), I think its with the STORY.

Basically, the REAL first verse has somehow gone missing.


something to the effect of:

"You...were with me every time I tried
to see you there in my mind's eye.
you'd smile.
We'd laugh,
you'd know what I was feeling
without my even speaking
you were such a perfect dream
trapped in my imagination"

Now, this doesn't really match your phrasing, perhaps it doesn't drop right in, but the idea is that you NEVER SET UP THE STORY...you need to give us the "back story" that this guy was someone you imagined since you were a little girl, and THEN YOU SEARCHED.

This could even be the second verse. (or the words that you use instead to convey this concept).

The song doesn't propel because the STORY doesn't.

WHAT THE HELL IS SO SPECIAL ABOUT THIS DAMN DOOD, ANYWAY? WHY SHOULD WE CARE?

the answer, of course, is that he is your dream. You can't start with the search, because we, as listeners, have no clue what you're looking for...maybe he's got utterly exticulant junk, maybe he's too handsome for words, maybe he's articulate and smart...or maybe he's just simply "the one".

I'm not completely buying the verse ( 1:35) where you talk about the nice boys being long gone. Because you're not looking for "some nice boy", you're looking for HIM, JUST HIM. It should probably be something more like

"I went throught all the 'nice' boys,
and then checked out the 'fun' boys,
in desperation looked at 'bad' boys,
but none of them were you."

Of course, that's not exactly right, but that's the sentiment that you should be pushing.

Ok, the bridge. You're confusing me, mix'n'matching timelines too much without enough basis. It comes off as clumsy. The first half, you kept on (past tense)though it seemed hopeless. Then you developed a (present-tense) steely resolve and goddamit come HELL you're going to SUCCEED..then you're wallowing back down into a pluperfect tense "having succeeded", oh but wait a minute, HERE COMES THE EMOTIONAL PEAK OF THE ENTIRE SONG!!!!!!

SO, what's wrong with that? The problem is that the emotional buildup of the song is the dreaming and the searching, and the PAYOFF is the finding. So, please pardon the sexual reference here, but the end of your bridge is a lyrical premature ejaculation. You need to STILL BE in a present/future tense through that last line of the bridge:

Instead of : "now I...have...what I've been searching for"

change to : "yes, I'll have what I'm searching for".

Its the absolute PEAK energy, PEAK emotion, PEAK volume, not to mention the highest melody note in the entire tune....and it leads right into the PAYOFF...."he's real". "I've found you".

In other words, he still has to be out there somewhere when you peak. that makes your payoff HUGE. As it is, its mis-timed.

Also at the last a-cappella chorus...you're singing this to ME...and I am the guy that's real, I am the guy that's perfect, I am the guy who can make you happy. This means that you are telling ME this story, and you're whispering it into MY ear. You are singing this not to an audience, but to the single person who this song is about. In terms of your vocal delivery, try to just keep that closer to the fore, in your sense of how you're phrasing, breathing, projecting. I'm "in your arms", not across the room.

Now, on to the mix. I'm not really getting misty-eyed over that high sawtooth synth line, that is really interfering with the sibilance of the vocal and also messing with the cymbals. It is distracting, and it's sucking up mix real estate that should be delegated to the guitars.

Pay much closer attention to raising the arc of volume up through the bridge, make it really SLAM on that last line of the bridge. Then clear away ALL THE JUNK at the acapella line. She's whispering to ME goddammit, quiet out all that other crap!

hope this helps!

dwoz

p.s. - I will not try to justify my opinions here, as mixerman has for his...

[ajcamlet]

Damn Dwoz! i almost think you should get paid for that one!

[Mixerman]

Okay busted!!! You shock me up. I've been receiving very positive response to the song. I simply believe in myself as a songwriter but believe me, I'm not so over the top that I am closed to criticism and advice. I do respect you as a producer, mixer, musician and your advice has been very important to me. I had a real hard time with being called a "lousy" singer. As of less than a year ago I learned how to play the guitar, sing and write songs. "Real" was actually the second song I'd ever written. I know I have a long way to go and realize I have a lot to learn and I AM COMPLETELY OPEN. My approach to the verse was to tell my story, singing softly but straight with emotion then come in stronger with the chorus and bridge. I understand how important it is to grab the listener from the beginning. I thought I was. I am working on the verse. Thanks for the advice and you can critique my songs anytime. I CAN TAKE IT. BRING IT ON.

I would like you to show me where I ever called you a lousy singer. I didn't. In fact, I think you're a good singer. However, no one is going to sound like a good singer on that verse.

If you're writing a song for yourself, you have to consider yourself. You are a strong singer. When you start singing strong, your voice comes alive. When you sing softly, you sound tentative, not alluring. I don't know if that's because you don't have "soft and emotionally" in your arsenal, or if it's because the phrasing is just so awkward. Possibly a combination of both. But if you're writing your songs for you, write something you can sing in a kick ass manner. If you feel the verses need to be "soft and emotional" don't write a verse in which you deliver "soft," only to have to hold your dick in your hand for 2 bars before you finish the thought thereby making it "emotional."

Half a sentence in a conversation leaves me time to complete the sentence for you. In general, you don't want your listener completing your sentences before you do. Let me give you some examples of why:

Singer: "I want to hold..."
[time elapses]
Me: my penis?
Singer: "...your hand."

Singer: "You make me..."
[time elapses]
Me: Wet?
Singer: "...strong."

I apologize for all the sexual innuendo in this post, but given the opportunity, a very high percentage of guys are going to turn "soft and emotional" into the most crude and base sexual commentary they can. Don't give them the opportunity.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[dwoz]

Mixerman, you are completely full of shit...........takke mushrooms.



:lol:


dwoz

[BIGDOG]

Then when the vocal came in, I thought the singer was lousy, on top of the awkward phrasing. But then by the time she got into the chorus, I was pleasantly surprised. But a song has to push me forward. Not push me to the skip button.



Mixerman


Mixerman, here is your quote. I told you I can take it. BRING IT ON!!! LOL!!! This song is about someone special. Without making you yawn...it came from my heart. Having been single for way too long and having dated alot of idiots, I finally found someone who was (yes, forgive me, I'm going to say it) "real" The way I approached this song was as if I am having a conversation with that special person then sharing my feelings with the audiance letting them know by not giving up is how I finally got to him . Maybe I am still so blown away with the fact I have a boyfriend who's normal the lyrics just came out whacky. I'm working on the verses. I actually sang a version totally full voiced and harder but it just did'nt seem right. Oh well. Still good advice. Thanks. You know, it's a 'chick thing" and a "chick song". They'll get it. I'm going to drive you nuts with more songs to critique. There's nine more! LOL. I think you're cool.

BIGDOG

[BIGDOG]

DWOZ...TO MANY MUSHROOMS MAN!!! JUST SAY NO!!! Seriously, I do appreciate your ideas. Great! Thank you.

BIGDOG

[seagate]

Perhaps speeding the song up will reduce the pauses enough for MM. Actually I can hear it, it would give the song the lift it needs, 5bpm.

The other thing that would fill the void is a long delay repeating the last phrase in the pauses.

After listening a few times the synth is now annoying me...

[dwoz]

DWOZ...TO MANY MUSHROOMS MAN!!! JUST SAY NO!!! Seriously, I do appreciate your ideas. Great! Thank you.

BIGDOG

If you ONLY take my suggestion on the bridge, you'll have something that Trish Yearwood would buy in a heartbeat.


dwoz

[dwoz]

Maybe I am still so blown away with the fact I have a boyfriend who's normal the lyrics just came out whacky. I'm working on the verses.


I had a girlfriend once (rebound...don't go there!) who was so totally amazed that I wasn't a raging alcoholic that we spent two months of (*utterly*) passionate bliss. It was downhill from there.


but that's MY next song...not yours!

:lol:

dwoz

[BIGDOG]

Hey thanks for the advice. It's interesting you said to speed it up. I was thinking the tempo was slow also. Kinda drags along. The first recording of the song was originally faster. I went back to listen to it last night and I do think it's better sped up. Thanks again.

BIGDOG

[BIGDOG]

DWOZ...please stay off the mushrooms!!! Trisha Yearwood???
Okay... I think we needs to work on the bridge! Love her!

BIGDOG

[dwoz]

DWOZ...please stay off the mushrooms!!! Trisha Yearwood???
Okay... I think we needs to work on the bridge! Love her!

BIGDOG


are you kidding me? that tune has "new country" written all over it in thick black sharpie. Not my cup o' tea if I was buying....but...

p.s.- I haven't had 'shrooms since approx. 2 years before you stopped using diapers. :Cry:

:lol:

dwoz

[Mixerman]

Then when the vocal came in, I thought the singer was lousy, on top of the awkward phrasing. But then by the time she got into the chorus, I was pleasantly surprised. But a song has to push me forward. Not push me to the skip button.



Mixerman


Mixerman, here is your quote. I told you I can take it. BRING IT ON!!! LOL!!! That's right. That was my quote. And if you read the quote, and take into account the qualifier that I "thought" the singer was lousy, only to be "pleasantly surprised" shortly thereafter, it is not a huge leap to infer that I changed my mind, and therefore, I didn't think you were a lousy singer. "Pleasantly" indicating pleasure and enjoyment, "surprised" indicating that I was not expecting such a result based on previous events. To say I was "pleasantly surprised," that's a compliment.

Here is your main dillemma as I see it. If you acknowledge the compliment (to yourself) as coming from someone knowledgeable, credible, and qualified to judge, then you would have to equally acknowledge the criticisms. Therefore, it is better for your brain to only percieve and recognize the negative criticisms as pure "trashing," thus allowing you the ability to completely disregard the opinion as coming from someone that just doesn't appreciate your art. By telling me that it's a "chick" thing, you are further extending your implementation of this self-protect mechanism. You are attempting to discredit and rationalize (to yourself) that my opinion is uninformed based on my gender. Mixerman just doesn't get it because he's a guy, therefore ALL of my opinions are wrong. But I get half of it. So how do you justify the fact that I don't get the other half?

The moment you accept the fact that I think you're a good singer and recognize that opinion as informed, you then have to accept that you come off like a lousy singer in the verse.

I'm working on the verses. I actually sang a version totally full voiced and harder but it just did'nt seem right. And it might NOT be right. I'm not there with you to hold your hand. All I can do is pinpoint what I see as problems, put them in writing for you, and it's up to you after that. If you determine I'm totally wrong, well that's okay with me. But not half wrong!

Enjoy,

Mixerman