The Multichannel A/D Converter Thread

[clicktrack]

I expect this to be a short thread.

Why? Because I've done a lot of looking and it always comes back to the same manufacturers. However, I'm curious to see what our masterful wombians can come up with.

I recently had to look around for multichannel A/D converters and was surprised at how slim the pickings are in terms of choice & price-point.

I'm looking around for quality A/D converters that have at least 4 channels (8+ channels is preferred).

I'm NOT looking for a preamp that has built in A/D. Thats an entirely different thread in itself.

I have nothing against the "standard" manufacturers, but I'd like to see what else is available.

The ones that continually come up are:

Apogee AD-16x
Apogee Rosetta 800
Lynx Aurora 8
Lynx Aurora 16
RME ADI-8 DS
Aphex 142

(And yes, I have indeed ignored the Behringer offering on purpose).


So in our industry of a million and 1 toys, I find it funny there's so few offerings out there.

[cowrange]

I love the Mytek 8x192. I borrowed and friends Apogee and Mytek and used both for months to really get a handle on what each was giving me. Mytek has the edge for me. I just like the high end on it better than the Apogee. So I put my money where my mouth is and now have a 8x192.

[HDJK]

You forgot the Lavry (http://www.lavryengineering.com/) stuff. Some people swear by it.

[Bob Olhsson]

The Benchmark Media System 1000 rack (http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/sys1000/) sounds seriously good too.

[otek]

The Benchmark Media System 1000 rack (http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/sys1000/) sounds seriously good too.

I just learned about that.

So the idea is, there is a standard "frame" that houses up to a certain number of those cards, with a built in PSU, and you just add more cards as needed? Right?


otek

[Bob Olhsson]

Right. For years Benchmark only sold to broadcast stations and networks where they ruled the high-end American broadcast audio market.

[Ryan Mcveigh]

Radar ADA?

[elroy jetson]

what's your price range?

[clicktrack]

Ultimately, I didn't want to put the price limit on things...I really wanted to see what other devices are out there and to compare price versus features at that point.

I should explain that this is an exercise in figuring out what is available now and what may be coming down the pipe that will suit us well in our mobile. I had need to buy something quickly that has solved itself, so I have an opportunity to do better research.

There's been some great suggestions here.

I did look at the RADAR ADA previoiusly, and I should have added it to the original list. Being a BIG fan of IZ Technology and a current RADAR owner, I would have loved going in this direction. However, for the price, the unit's configuration forces me into corners that I really don't want to go.

For example, their unit is configured as 24 A/D, 24 D/A. You buy a license for your configuration based on that combination. I, however don't need that many D/A...I need a significant number of A/D inputs though. This means I have to buy multiple 3U units to get to my goal. That creates physical issues in my configuration that I rather not get into.

I love the benchmark unit. Reminds me of a marshall-long acoustics rackframe from years ago, which I used in the design of a theme park BGM system. I'm a fan of the configurationability, the quality and that fact that in 3U, I can have a TONNE of A/D. Very well done. The option of ADAT output is attractive as well. (I have a lot of existing ADAT optical that still needs to be compatible until the entire system can be upgraded). You can't go wrong with the benchmark. When my budget increases, this would definitely be the direction I would go in.

The Lavry unit is a very good option. At that point, because I'd be looking at multiple units, I'd have to put it side-by-side with the likes of the Apogees & Myteks and do a minute comparison of bang-for-buck...which one gets me a better sound with the minimum amount of hassle for their respective prices. Price would now become part of the equation.

Mytek is an interesting offering. It has some features that I doubt I'd use for what I'm looking for, but if the price were right, I'd definitely consider it.

If I were to buy right now, my main contenders would be the Apogee AD16x, the Mytek, the Lynx Aurora 16 and the Benchmark. At this level, I wouldn't be as concerned about the QUALITY of the sound they provide (they would all be pretty damn good IMHO), but moreso what nuances in the sound quality that I'd like or dislike.

I'm glad a bunch of you have brought forth some great contenders...thankyou!!!

[Starfucker]

Ultimately, I didn't want to put the price limit on things...I really wanted to see what other devices are out there and to compare price versus features at that point.

if you put it that way: Prism (http://www.mercenaryaudio.com/prsodradstwi.html)

Haven't used it... obviously... but it is out there

[otek]

For example, their unit is configured as 24 A/D, 24 D/A. You buy a license for your configuration based on that combination. I, however don't need that many D/A...I need a significant number of A/D inputs though.

Prism

Funny you should mention them after Click made the "configuration" comment. Prism actually makes something called the ADA-8XR (http://www.prismsound.com/music_recording/products_subs/ada8xr/ada8xr_home.php) which is modular and configurable as either 16 A/D, 16 D/A, or 8 AD/DA.

The price? A mere 12 grand. :Coolio: They also have a firewire interface called Orpheus for around 5. Some place called Sonotechnique peddles these things around your part of the world.


otek

[pounce]

i have used the benchmarks and they are excellent. i hadn't used the prism's, so i cannot directly compare with other high end options.

[otek]

i have used the benchmarks and they are excellent. i hadn't used the prism's, so i cannot directly compare with other high end options.

I haven't used the Prisms either - I'm merely reporting on their existence. I doubt there are even that many around in my part of the world, I would expect the high asking price plus import costs and a high sales tax makes these units less viable over here.

Like you I've used Benchmark converters and they are indeed excellent.


otek

[Bob Olhsson]

The Benchmark DAC-1 is a bit picky about loading. I've heard it trounce the usual $6000 suspects feeding easy loads and I've heard it sound unimpressive feeding more challenging loads such as passive attenuators.

[indiesynthpunk]

Any thoughts here on MOTU converters? I've been seriously looking into the HD192. at 1800 the price seems fair. No reviews yet though.

[Pimp-X]

"Meh" would be my comprehensive review...

[RWC]

Any thoughts here on MOTU converters? I've been seriously looking into the HD192. at 1800 the price seems fair. No reviews yet though.

bunk. I'd save up for a lynx aurora. IMO, the best "cheap" converter on the market.

[otek]

bunk. I'd save up for a lynx aurora. IMO, the best "cheap" converter on the market.

Especially when clocked with something really decent.


otek

[Johnny]

I'm pretty sold on the Apogee AD16 for my purposes.

[Flipper]

If i remeber correctly slipperman runs Motu Hd 192's in his rooms.
To what capacity no idea??? Maybe the man will chime in...

I do know that when clocked to Ua 2192 they aren't to bad.

The lynx stuff seems pretty good and is now just starting to get some recognition over here...

[indiesynthpunk]

Yeah, I've been running everything through a Firepod for the past few years. So, I don't really know my way around ada's too much. I'm still kind of puzzled by the clocking stuff that was mentioned. I'm assuming it's something that aligns all of the "digitized" audio, so it sounds tight/better???? It's a lotta dough to be throwing at something. Do higher priced ad's and da's really make a difference?

[otek]

I'm still kind of puzzled by the clocking stuff that was mentioned. I'm assuming it's something that aligns all of the "digitized" audio, so it sounds tight/better????

It controls the sample rate, and it's present in any AD or DA, regardless of price - it's a basic part of the construction of a converter. The samples must be taken at a very steady rate, or you will have problems with the sound. Clean, steady power for the clock is very important. Cheaper converters have cheaper clocks, and believe me when I tell you the clock is essential to the sound of the converter.

An external clock unit is ideally a high quality clock with a very clean power supply. It can be used to control several converters to make everything run at the exact same frequency.

It's a lotta dough to be throwing at something. Do higher priced ad's and da's really make a difference?

It's funny, we expect converters to somehow be different from all other electronics. Do all preamps, speakers and compressors sound the same? Not even close. So there's no reason why all converters would. There's also no reason why a high quality converter wouldn't cost around a grand per channel, because quality preamps definitely do, and speakers and compressors frequently cost considerably more than that. There is also cause to suspect it would sound a good deal better.

I just happened to visit the Line 6 forum recently (don't ask). There was a discussion there which is pretty typical for most online debate regarding converters. Someone was asking whether the converters in the Pod XT were any good, and several other posters replied reassuringly that they were. The dialog then turned to a diatribe about "quality" converters and many posters jumped on the bandwagon. Pretty soon someone announced he would be setting up a "blind test" for converters, and the bias was pretty obvious - the objective of said blind test was to "expose" the "fraudulent nature" of certain converter manufacturers.

When someone blamed the marketing skills of the "boutique" converter companies for making people believe there is a difference between expensive and cheap converters beside the price, I nearly signed up to respond - you see, I blame the marketing skills of the budget brands for making people believe there isn't.



otek

[Immanuel]

I just happened to visit the Line 6 forum recently (don't ask).
Oh, you wanted to check out some user reviews to base your opinion on before purchasing?:Thumbsup:



:lol:

[clicktrack]

It's funny, we expect converters to somehow be different from all other electronics. Do all preamps, speakers and compressors sound the same? Not even close. So there's no reason why all converters would. There's also no reason why a high quality converter wouldn't cost around a grand per channel, because quality preamps definitely do, and speakers and compressors frequently cost considerably more than that. There is also cause to suspect it would sound a good deal better.

...

I blame the marketing skills of the budget brands for making people believe there isn't.



otek

Well said.

I remember a similar thread at why a RADAR is more expensive than...I think it was an Alesis HD24 or something similar. In any case, it was a comparison where someone found out both machines used the same converter chip.

What someone *thankfully* brought up was that the A/D chip used is only a part of the conversion. What you do before, after and to power and clock the chip has as much impact as the chip itself..and when you do it properly...it costs money. This isn't to say the companies are allowed to gouge us, but there is indeed some merit to "you get what you pay for".

[otek]

Oh, you wanted to check out some user reviews to base your opinion on before purchasing?

Shhh.

I was staking it out, figuring out the best way to set up a DOS attack. :Twisted:


otek

[dandeurloo]

I highly recommend some of the mods Blacklion audio does to cheaper converters. I have an 002 modded and it sounds amazing. I also have a rosetta 800. i prefer the clock and converters in the modded 002. I have done plenty of shot outs and testing and my ears tell me its better then the Rosetta. I also use a apogee mini me. I used that before I had any other gear and I still use it to maximize my spidf channels. I am thinking of getting the new sparrow from BLA becasue I am so happy with everything else they have done for me. I am wondering if anyone has used it.
http://www.blacklionaudio.com/micro_adc.html

The only thing I wish it had would be a headphone jack. It's not that big of a deal but it would be nice form my uses. Anyway, I prefered it to the benchmark unit they did a shot out with on their home page. Check it out and let me know what you think.

Otherwise I am thinking of the mytek http://www.mytekdigital.com/products/stereo96adc.htm. Has anyone used this?

[EliasGwinn]

Let me know if you have any questions about the Benchmark converters, or questions about converters in general. I gotta get some good use outta this EE degree somehow...

[otek]

Let me know if you have any questions about the Benchmark converters, or questions about converters in general. I gotta get some good use outta this EE degree somehow...

:lol:

Hi Elias,

And welcome to the Womb!

It's an awesome thing whenever we can get people from the manufacturers in here to answer questions directly.


otek

[EliasGwinn]

The pleasure is mine...

[dandeurloo]

Anyone have the chance to use the Mytek two channel A/D or the new Blacklion Sparrow. I need to pull the trigger on one soon and would love some feedback if anyone has used either or both units.