Just Got MiLaR

[Princess]

The video is great but I'm missing something. It seems like you (Charles) use an awful lot of plugins. You seem to tweak everything regardless of whether it sounds good or bad. Just tweak tweak tweak.

I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. I just never thought that this is the way to approach audio. I was taught to get the sound at the source first and THEN do minor tweaks to make that sound fit in the mix. The less the better. Especially with plugins.

Are you just using a ton of plugins for instructional purposes or do you really mix that way? Do you really adjust that much on each and every track?

Obviously, we all work different but I was just curious if you need to adjust your work habits for teaching others. Thx.

[bunnerabb]

Perhaps if you gave us an idea of your approach and workflow, it would help give us an idea of your take on Charles'.

this could be an interesting thread.

Thank you, princess.

[Brendo]

AFAIK, this really is the way Charles "Plugin Puto*" Dye mixes... he's the one responsible for mixing Livin' La Vida Loca into an L1, after all. :lol:



* Puto = Spanish for "Male Prostitute".

[Aardvark]

The video is great but I'm missing something...you (Charles) an awful lot...


Whatever.


Did you buy the DVD or did you get Kenny's drum samples?



Cheers,
Aardvark

[Aardvark]

FWIW.


In a few years time when we post up the new MMRS segments you can hear Charles as he explains his approach in detail.

He deftly answers a number of questions from the hosts as they attempt to drill his scrawny ass on the subject. When I return to Canaduh, I will conduct a further interview with him and if anyone has additional questions along these lines, I will bring them to his attention.



Cheers,
RetardVark

[juergen]

* Puto = Spanish for "Male Prostitute".

Well actually over here (and Argentina as well) puto would mean somthing like "fairy" or "fruitcake".

Where as puta really does mean prostitute, but of the female persuasion.

[Fulcrum]

It seems like you (Charles) use an awful lot of plugins.

This should have been readily apparent to you from even the most cursory scan of Hard Disk Life.

You did go and have a look at that before you forked over your cash for MILaR, yeah? I mean, if I were performing due diligence in trying to find out about whether I should be paying that kind of money to learn something, I would research the teacher and find out what I could about his methods.

I mean... if you didn't want to go to Miami Beach, why'd you get on the train?

[Skwaidu]

A mixer does *Whatever* to get to his/her goal. I would suspect that indeed, Charles is of the "maximum tweakage" variety. As it happens, so am I, and from what I gather so are *many* acclaimed mixers around the globe...

Not too many of those "purist" guys in the trenches these days. :Roll eyes:

[Princess]

Perhaps if you gave us an idea of your approach and workflow, it would help give us an idea of your take on Charles'.

this could be an interesting thread.

Thank you, princess.


My approach is to keep things very simple. Great mikes into great preamps into a DAW. I like to use plugins as a last resort. I compress and EQ on the way in and will re-compress and re-EQ if it needs real surgery. Plugins seem fine for adding a little top end here and there but not for the heavy lifting. No?

[Princess]

Whatever.


Did you buy the DVD or did you get Kenny's drum samples?



Cheers,
Aardvark

I bought it. I don't use drum samples either. I hire good drummers who know how to hit.

[Princess]

This should have been readily apparent to you from even the most cursory scan of Hard Disk Life.

You did go and have a look at that before you forked over your cash for MILaR, yeah? I mean, if I were performing due diligence in trying to find out about whether I should be paying that kind of money to learn something, I would research the teacher and find out what I could about his methods.

I mean... if you didn't want to go to Miami Beach, why'd you get on the train?

I'm not complaining about the DVD. I like it and Charles is a cutie. I just can't believe that he needs all those plugins to get a good sound. And in my experience, the more I use, the worse it sounds.

[volthause]

Different strokes I guess.

Plug-ins are getting pretty good, and some are plenty good for heavy lifting, as you put it.

Neither approach is wrong. Dense mixes require drastic measures some of the time. You've got to do whatever it is that you need to do to make it work for you.

[Princess]

A mixer does *Whatever* to get to his/her goal. I would suspect that indeed, Charles is of the "maximum tweakage" variety. As it happens, so am I, and from what I gather so are *many* acclaimed mixers around the globe...

Not too many of those "purist" guys in the trenches these days. :Roll eyes:

Well. I'm not a guy, but I am in the trenches and when I mix someone elses mediocre tracks, I do find myself tweaking and replacing as necessary. When I produce and engineer however, I do do the least that I can to get results. If it sounds good and moves me, it's done. No need to screw with it anymore.

[volthause]

If it sounds good and moves me, it's done. No need to screw with it anymore.

Then you've already snatched the pebble. If you watch MILR again, you may note that Chas never professes to be able to TEACH anyone how to mix a record. He does say that it can be LEARNED, and you don't have to be born with it. That DVD is a perfect example of how he mixes a record. His approach may not be the same as yours.

The one thing I really got out of it was that you CAN do ANYTHING necessary to mix a song to get the best out of it. No fear, as it were.

[nomad]

I like it and Charles is a cutie.

You were doing just fine right up until here.

[Fulcrum]

Volt beat me to it.

In addition to being a working example of how one man approaches mixing pop/rock music, I think the use, or (in the eyes of some) overuse, of plugins might be to show us what they are capable of. Of course if the tracks sound fine to you as they are when you bring the faders up, then there's no need to embellish them. And then, if you sit back and wonder, well, can I make them even better, then you won't know until you try.

I think it was Slippy who said that if everything is big, nothing is big. Solo a guitar track and it may sound like dogshit, but sit perfectly once it's back in the mix and still be recognizable as a guitar. That's worth remembering-- I have to keep reminding myself of that, often.

Charles can and probably should chime in here, but unless I am much mistaken he might be mixing with an eye to how the track is going to sound on the radio-- with certain producers requesting that he squash the hell out of the mix in addition to the radio station funnelling it through their multiband compressors, those plugs might be more necessary than any of us (who have not mixed worldbeating singles) realize.

[Pimp-X]

At the risk of putting words in Charles mouth (shush, Kenny), I must throw this out there...

I do a lot of mixing and very little tracking. I am a mixer for hire. I am at the mercy of whatever the engineer and producer had in mind during tracking. Sometimes they have fantastic ideas in mind and provide me tracks that require little or no tweaking whatsoever. Other times, we have what I would refer to as 'What The Fuck' moments, where there are no options other than brutal surgery and so on.

Also, it is worth mentioning that in order to create new and unusual soundscapes and textures, heavy plugin stacking is typically the way to go.

I stack pretty heavily a lot of the time. Not as heavily as Charles, but, I'd be like Charles if I ever grew up.

[bunnerabb]

I only have one basic template.

Get the song that's in my head to come out of my speakers. This a contextual endeavour and it has to work anywhere and everybody has to hear what you heard - when you wrote and arranged the song - when it's done.

If this requires nothing more then quick arrangement of the soundstage and some automation writes, cool. If I have to process the living piss out of it, also cool but I find is has less to do with the initial quality of the tracks, agreeing that better is better, than it does when I put them all up to nominal gain and see how they serve the song.

Because in my mind, the whole notion of tracking and mixing is to serve the song and the processes and techniques utilised and secondary, at best, as to importance in the process.

[PSN Big Al]

Couple of points here...

With the specific song featured on MILAR, the band wanted
several elements (especially the guitars) to be changed from
how they sounded in the initial tracking session. Charles was
actually doing a little "sound designing" via his tweaking to
change the character to the band's liking.

The first time we had Charles on the show i asked for his
comment about "rules" having to do with eq'ing and not being
too radical with adjusting things, etc. I loved his answer.

Basically, if you end up with the sound you were looking for,
who cares how you got it? There's no wrong way to get the
right sound. :very happy:

[Charles Dye]

From the original (+ much shorter) script for MiLaR:

Here's how to get a great mix:

1. Start with great sounding tracks.

2. Use broomstick to set all faders @ - 5 dB.

3. Print.

Thank you very much for you time. I hope this helps.

After some serious thought we reconsidered + decided on the more is more approach.

But seriously, I agree with a lot of what's already been said. I'll jump back in here later with more.

As Aardvark said, I talked about some of these questions on the MM Radio Show, so once it's posted you can check it out. I also discussed some of the thinking behind MiLaR in the Project Studio Network (http://www.harddisklife.com/PSN.html) – Show #18 + some of the later interviews.

And don't beat up on Princess' too much. I've got no problem with what she said.

[seagate]

Charles can and probably should chime in here, but unless I am much mistaken he might be mixing with an eye to how the track is going to sound on the radio

Im confused, wouldn't he be better off using an ear for that?

:Roll eyes:

[Goes211]

Here's how to get a great mix:

1. Start with great sounding tracks.
2. Use broomstick to set all faders @ - 5 dB.
3. Print.

Thank you very much for you time. I hope this helps.

:D
Beautiful.

[Brendo]

Well. I'm not a guy
Who's the cute girl in your avatar, then? :lol:

I recommend that you take a listen to all the Slipperman episodes (see player up above) - there's quite a few where he talks about how mixing is the suspension of reality, etc.

His approach is also a bit different - he'll bring his tracks into one section of his board, and then treat them so they sound like how he wished they sounded when they came into his shop. Then he routs them to the middle section and processes them even more. It's kinda the equivalent of what Charles does, but in analog... stacking processing on processing to get the result he wants.

[cavetyoureruptor]

The bottom line for me was listening to the three versions at the end of the Hard Disk Life series. I certainly can hear a difference between the raw tracks and when he adds the plugs. And more difference with the automation added. Whether those differences are pleasing to you is a matter of taste, but it's hard to argue that he isn't making a difference.

To me, the fact that he is willing to let us look over his shoulder while he goes though his process is a gold mine. I have a small hobby/project studio in my house and I don't have access to recording professionals at any level.

I think that more important than what he does, is seeing how and mostly, why, he does things.


Cheers!
:D CYE

[Shan]

...I just never thought that this is the way to approach audio. I was taught to get the sound at the source first and THEN do minor tweaks to make that sound fit in the mix. The less the better. Especially with plugins.

I cant speak for Charles but here's my 2 cents.

I think it was a post on another audio forum in which Charles said the original tracks he got sounded like a Country song but the band and producer decided to make it more aggressive by using the tracks that they already gave Charles. If you take off all the plug-ins, you will here a very drastic change indeed. I think he nailed it considering what they gave him to mix with. Alot of the stuff I have to work with definitely makes me scratch my head and makes me say a few harsh words out loud at times. :grin:

I was taught to get the sound at the source first and THEN do minor tweaks to make that sound fit in the mix.

I'd love get the tracks I mix like that. That would definitely make my job easier. I wish everyone would do this before they gave me their tracks but that is unlikely to happen unless I engineer everything myself. 90% of my stuff is straight from India. The performance and playing is the most amazing stuff I've ever heard, The engineering part of it is pretty horrid at times though. They dont care, it's all about the player and the groove over there. If a player isnt cuttin' it, then they're gone right on the spot and someone is there to replace them within seconds. :icon_eek: But somehow in the end, I manage to make it all work. But getting there, with the amount of plug-ins and drastic EQ settings etc that I use even scares the crap out of me when I "look" at it all. But when I "listen" to it, I feel like I achieved my goals or got pretty close. I myself will use whatever it takes to get that end result. Many times it can take a ton of plug-ins with very drastic settings. Other times I'll have a few tracks with nothing on them at all in a mix. Whatever it takes.

Shane


(I'll also have to plug the Slipperman episodes above. He's given us a goldmine of information.)

[Princess]

In the DVD I have, Charles is both the engineer and mixer. So, again I ask, do you really need all those plugins to make a record and do you really tweak each and every sound? Thx.

[Mikey MTC]

In the DVD I have, Charles is both the engineer and mixer. So, again I ask, do you really need all those plugins to make a record and do you really tweak each and every sound? Thx.


On the MiLar DVD Charles is not the recording engineer. He clearly points out that although the tracks were extremely well recorded (by someone else), his brief from the band was to toughen things up a lot.

The question of whether you really need all those plugins is a bottomless question with no correct answer. Watch what Charles does on the DVD, and on some tracks if you think the "before" sound is better than the "after" sound, then NO - you don't need all those plugins. The song on the MiLar DVD has a lot of tracks in it so Charles has to do a lot of carving to squeeze it all in. Some tracks are doubles of existing parts so they need an alternate approach to compliment the main part, and so on.

The reality is, and I'm sure Charles will be the first one to admit it - - - there is no right and wrong way to do this. Charles has shown us his way which I think works great, and I've taken things from MiLar that I didn't think I would prior to purchasing it. But having said that, there's an infinite number of other ways to approach mixing. No, you don't HAVE to tweak every sound.

[PSN Big Al]

I heard Ricky Martin was REALLY upset when he found out that there were SO many plugins used on his record, not withstanding the grammy, that was beside the point.

You've really got to be careful with that kind of thing. :Wink:


.

[Charles Dye]

Well, I...

[uhh... that's been answered already.]


About that other...

[nope... got that too.]


@ least let me...

[damn it... what's left?]


Okay, ya got me...



I'm a plugslut. :Coolio:

[Charles Dye]

Seriously tho, I pretty much agree with all the replies, but would like to respond to...

The less [tweaks] the better. Especially with plugins.

The idea of "tweaking less" is highly valid. But the idea of tweaking the crap out of something is equally valid. As said, you do whatever it takes to get to your sonic goal.

OTOH, I completely disagree (©2006 MM) with the "especially with plugins" idea. The idea that when you use plug-ins, the less the better is moronic. This idiocy is constantly regurgitated on the web + is patently false. With all the great sounding plugz out there, that statement simply doesn't hold up. And as far as I can tell, those repeating it appear to be speaking from inexperience.

Of course, poorly coded + bad sounding plugz exist, as do poorly designed peices of analog hardware. The point is... use great sounding boxes + you can get great sounds. Use crap + you'll get same.

Princess, you should just ask my co-mod, Kenny. He loves plugz.

[Where the hell is he anyway. Haven't seen him around here since the 28th.]

[malice]

[Where the hell is he anyway. Haven't seen him around here since the 28th.]

Maybe he sold all of his pluggz to get this operation he was talking about lately.

malice

[PSN Big Al]

Maybe he sold all of his pluggz to get this operation he was talking about lately.

Someone should let him know he doesn't need the operation. He's plenty pretty already! :Wink:

[Charles Dye]

I think the operation was for a different type of "plugz". :icon_eek:

[PSN Big Al]

I think the operation was for a different type of "plugz". :icon_eek:

:icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:

[dwoz]

In the DVD I have, Charles is both the engineer and mixer. So, again I ask, do you really need all those plugins to make a record and do you really tweak each and every sound? Thx.


Well, princess, I really don't want to come off as a neanderthal here, but the common situation is that a young "wish-she-was" needs a strong, testosterone-challenged male producer to hone her craft into something that the buying public can resonate with.

Resonance being the core process of vibrating the credit card of certain defined constituencies into the state of disbursement.

Why "testosterone-challenged male producers?" dunno...maybe its urban legend, maybe its track record, maybe its...conspiracy.

In any case, ignoring the cultural/social aspects of the thing, if these guys are using up plugs like a vineyard goes through cork bark, who are WE to pontificate or punditize? The proof is in the pudding, and these guys have 151 proof puddings.


dwoz

[Charles Dye]

Also, just wanted to say that engineer Jeremy Hunter recorded some really great sounding tracks for "She Loves Me" @ The White House + his studio in Nashville.

The drums sounded huge + the gtrs were killer. His recording really influenced the mix in a very positive way. The tracks were warm + the room sounds on the drums were amazing. He captured an electric energy I hope I was able to further embellish.

As already stated, eL (the band in MiLaR) decided after the recording that they wanted to go for a more agressive sound with the mix of this song + that's what lead to a lot of the radical eq on the gtrs.

[PSN Big Al]

Dude, you scared me for a second. I thought you meant this guy:

Hey! Where'd you get a picture of me?!


.

[Brendo]

id tell ya who it really is but i think the word is ****** on this forum...

[Mixerman]

I would just like to go on record here: "I disagree" (©2006 MM) with everything in this thread.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[Charles Dye]

I would just like to go on record here: "I disagree" (©2006 MM) with everything in this thread.

... says the Governor of the State of Ludditity.


And we wouldn't have it any other way. :grin:

[Princess]

You're trying to tell me that plugins sound as good as hardware.
If you actually believe this then your as deaf as clients are ghey. NTTAWWT.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

[Brendo]

Fuck, you act like a fucking princess too.

He never said that - he said that just as there are some good plugins and shit plugins, there are also good and shit hardware units.

Grow up.

And what the fuck is with the use of "gay" as an insult?







The correct spelling is "ghey".










That is all.





- B

[seagate]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/d9f210d053.jpg

:icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:

What where we talking about???

:Confused:

[Brendo]

:icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:

What where we talking about???

:Confused:

It's a diversionary tactic! Be strong!

[Princess]

The idea that when you use plug-ins, the less the better is moronic. This idiocy is constantly regurgitated on the web + is patently false. With all the great sounding plugz out there, that statement simply doesn't hold up. And as far as I can tell, those repeating it appear to be speaking from inexperience.



This statement appears to me that Charles believes that plugins are as good as hardware boxes. That is why he uses the more is better philosophy. To my fully experienced ears, the more plugins I use, the worse it sounds.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

[Brendo]

Again, if you can point out where he says explicitly "more is better" in that quote...

All he is saying, is that the idea that chaining plugins together degrades signal, is a myth.

Also, which plugins are you using? Which DAW?

[PSN Big Al]

To my fully experienced ears, the more plugins I use, the worse it sounds.


Well Princess, if you've got a signal chain and procedure that
works for you, why worry about something you'll never use,
or you've decided is not for you?

Or rather, why be concerned about the harmful effects of
something that doesn't really apply to your style of mixing?

BTW...how did you get a hold of Chris Angel's necklace? :Wink:


.

[st robert]

This statement appears to me that Charles believes that plugins are as good as hardware boxes. That is why he uses the more is better philosophy. To my fully experienced ears, the more plugins I use, the worse it sounds.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

then use better plug-ins.

duh!

do what makes you happy. use more outboard. same dif, right? is it an eq plug or an eq? the same result is achieved by the mix engineer, to his/her ears at the time.

your ears may be as fabulous as your breasts, but to imply that you could differentiate between a properly used plug eq on rythm_guit_left and a hardware eq on same track in a thick mix is ludicrous at best. use what the situation calls for. if ya got cool plugs, use em.

love,
rob

[Brendo]

Princess... put that image in your signature. Top of the screen, second option from the left on the grey bar... "User CP".

[PSN Big Al]

Princess... put that image in your signature. Top of the screen, second option from the left on the grey bar... "User CP".


Would she then be using her pic as a "plug-in" in her sig? :grin:


.

[st robert]

Would she then be using her pic as a "plug-in" in her sig? :grin:


.
i was hoping that we could get her to send the actual picture to all of us, since jpeg is a lossy format and an insult to our experienced eyes.

we can tell the difference, damn you!

rob


p.s. al: howdy, neighbor!

[Princess]

Again, if you can point out where he says explicitly "more is better" in that quote...

All he is saying, is that the idea that chaining plugins together degrades signal, is a myth.

Also, which plugins are you using? Which DAW?

I'm assuming that he thinks more is better as he uses a lot of 'em. He's not trying to ruin the mixes is he? It's not chaining together that sounds bad to me. It's using a lot of them in general. It's not a myth. He doesn't agree with it but that would only make it a myth if he was a God. He's good looking but not a God.

I mainly use EQIII, UA Pultec for EQ and Massey Compressors (sparingly). I've tried almost all of them and none of them sound any better to me.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg

[st robert]

I'm assuming that he thinks more is better as he uses a lot of 'em. He's not trying to ruin the mixes is he? It's not chaining together that sounds bad to me. It's using a lot of them in general. It's not a myth. He doesn't agree with it but that would only make it a myth if he was a God. He's good looking but not a God.

I mainly use EQIII, UA Pultec for EQ and Massey Compressors (sparingly). I've tried almost all of them and none of them sound any better to me.


better than what?

[Princess]

Well Princess, if you've got a signal chain and procedure that
works for you, why worry about something you'll never use,
or you've decided is not for you?

Or rather, why be concerned about the harmful effects of
something that doesn't really apply to your style of mixing?

BTW...how did you get a hold of Chris Angel's necklace? :Wink:


.

I'm not worried, as you put it. I'm new to forums. I thought you guys like to discuss and comment on how ya all work. I like to see people defend their work habits. Maybe I can be swayed.

I do know Chris, but this isn't his necklace.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg

[Princess]

your ears may be as fabulous as your breasts, but to imply that you could differentiate between a properly used plug eq on rythm_guit_left and a hardware eq on same track in a thick mix is ludicrous at best. use what the situation calls for. if ya got cool plugs, use em.

love,
rob

Where I come from some would call that sexual harassment. Don't worry. I have a thick skin.

Are you suggesting that I should use lesser tools if I'm mixing a denser song? That my dear is ludicrous.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg

[Princess]

Princess... put that image in your signature. Top of the screen, second option from the left on the grey bar... "User CP".

I tried that. It doesn't seem to show the picture that way. Thx.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg

[Princess]

better than what?

Better than a few. He thinks more is better than less. No?

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg

[Brendo]

Del. Didnt notice second page.

[st robert]

Where I come from some would call that sexual harassment. Don't worry. I have a thick skin.

Are you suggesting that I should use lesser tools if I'm mixing a denser song? That my dear is ludicrous.


you posted the picture. what was the intent? why that particular picture? i await your answer.

and "lesser tools"... what "lesser tools"? different tools that you have trouble coming to grips with. embrace them and roll with it, just as you would any other piece of gear. if it sounds like ass to you, don't use it. i won't put words in mr. dye's pie hole, but i get the impression that he's using shit he's happy with, to good effect, pardon the pun.

outboard or plug, they all have a sonic signature that works for the mix or not. serve the mix. fuck the silly shit.

this is a bullshit argument.

love, rob

[st robert]

Better than a few. He thinks more is better than less. No?



no, miss literal, just enough is best. that's where the rubber meets the road. he'll do what he has to do to get his mind's eye on tape.

no more, no less.

having fun yet?

i am!

rob

[PSN Big Al]

Princess: "He says more is better."

Someone else: "He's never said that anywhere."

Princess: "But he says more is better, doesn't he?"

Someone else: "He's never said that anywhere."

Princess: "I just don't agree with him that more is better."

Someone else: "He's never said that anywhere."

WHEW! I'm gettin' mighty dizzy. :icon_eek:

[Princess]

and "lesser tools"... what "lesser tools"? different tools that you have trouble coming to grips with. embrace them and roll with it, just as you would any other piece of gear. if it sounds like ass to you, don't use it. i won't put words in mr. dye's pie hole, but i get the impression that he's using shit he's happy with, to good effect, pardon the pun.

outboard or plug, they all have a sonic signature that works for the mix or not. serve the mix. fuck the silly shit.

this is a bullshit argument.

love, rob

You are the one that implied that they were lesser tools. Read your post. You said that I couldn't hear the difference in a dense mix. Thus implying that I'd probably hear it soloed. That means that it is indeed a lesser tool that could only be hidden in a dense mix. Am I crazy?

I'm sorry if you think this a silly discussion. Perhaps I posted it in the wrong forum.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg

[Brendo]

Are you suggesting that I should use lesser tools if I'm mixing a denser song? That my dear is ludicrous.
He's suggesting you can get away with more, in a denser mix.

I tried that. It doesn't seem to show the picture that way. Thx.
In the signature thing you need to put image tags around it. (img)URL(/img), all square brackets. Then when you post, click in the box "show my signature" or whatever it is, you only need to hit that once.

[Princess]

no, miss literal, just enough is best. that's where the rubber meets the road. he'll do what he has to do to get his mind's eye on tape.

no more, no less.

having fun yet?

i am!

rob

Miss Literal? Is Charles's DVD meant to be taken figuratively? Possibly with all those video effects. :Cry:

[5down1up]

imho it takes a lot of practice to get used to the " sound " of digital audio. especially when switching over from the old school audio world.

you always get those statements " lush, no bass, no bite " etc.
and i really thought for a loooong time that this is the truth !

god bless, a few people who are able to fly with the ITB approach convinced me with their results, that its all about the people using the tools ( as it was before ).

i cant share the thought that " more " plugins degenerade the sound. and i dont even get why it should be bad to use tons if needed ? if it takes 5 plugs per channel to get the desired results, thats cool.

but same here imho, flying a big mixdown session like that needs a lot of experience. if your not prepared right, concentration might be gone already when you reach channel 3.

a lot of cool ideas can be found on charles site.
its just like a painter reaching for different colours.

have fun, good luck :Thumbsup:

[Brendo]

Miss Literal? Is Charles's DVD meant to be taken figuratively? Possibly with all those video effects. :Cry:

But were the video effects done using a hardware video mixer, or in software?

[st robert]

You are the one that implied that they were lesser tools. Read your post. You said that I couldn't hear the difference in a dense mix. Thus implying that I'd probably hear it soloed. That means that it is indeed a lesser tool that could only be hidden in a dense mix. Am I crazy?

I'm sorry if you think this a silly discussion. Perhaps I posted it in the wrong forum.


i said "differentiate", not "pick out the behringer." what's the difference between godiva chocolate and leonetti cabernet? if you are convinced that plugs are the devil then they are the devil.

to you.

that's cool. and it's also cool that you enjoy a good discussion with a bit of flair and shit.

what part of your question remains unanswered?

rob

[Princess]

He's suggesting you can get away with more, in a denser mix.

Either way, it sounds to me like saying I could be in Playboy if they shot me 10 feet further away.



In the signature thing you need to put image tags around it. (img)URL(/img), all square brackets. Then when you post, click in the box "show my signature" or whatever it is, you only need to hit that once.

I know what you mean but it's not working for me. Perhaps the mods don't allow it. I'll PM them. Thx.

[Brendo]

that's cool. and it's also cool that you enjoy a good discussion with a bit of shitflinging.

Fixed.

[Brendo]

Either way, it sounds to me like saying I could be in Playboy if they shot me 10 feet further away.
Well, who's that in the picture? It looks like it was lifted straight out of the pages of.

I know what you mean but it's not working for me. Perhaps the mods don't allow it. I'll PM them. Thx.
They don't, I just looked, it says "Allow IMG tag: No". And it doesn't allow HTML either.

That puts a bit of a damper on CaPE V banner signatures, then. Huh.

[st robert]

Princess: "He says more is better."

Someone else: "He's never said that anywhere."

Princess: "But he says more is better, doesn't he?"

Someone else: "He's never said that anywhere."

Princess: "I just don't agree with him that more is better."

Someone else: "He's never said that anywhere."

WHEW! I'm gettin' mighty dizzy. :icon_eek:

ah, "literal" was the wrong word. it's just that he didn't, er, say that.

right?

it's as though you are clinging to one misquote about "more is better" as the basis for some argument that is not going anywhere in particular. let's abandon that and find out what you really need to know?

rob

[st robert]

Fixed.
ah, thanks.

[Princess]

Well, who's that in the picture? It looks like it was lifted straight out of the pages of.



I appreciate the flattery but I'm not there just yet. Although the picture appears a certain way, I am still (almost) fully dressed. Thx.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg

[Princess]

let's abandon that and find out what you really need to know?

rob

I just wanted to know if Charles really uses all those plugins on a real mix or he just did that in the video for instructional purposes. If I was teaching a class in (say) decorating a dining room. I would surely explain and demonstrate how each piece would and would not appeal to the feng shui of the room. If I was just hired to do the job, I would just decorate the room correctly and waste no time with it.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg

[st robert]

Either way, it sounds to me like saying I could be in Playboy if they shot me 10 feet further away.


maybe that is what i'm saying. lesse here. if a singer is 15 cents sharp on a word or a snare hit is 20ms early on beat 4 of the last bar of the b-part before chorus 2, do you agonize over how bad it sounds or how good it sounds? is it swinging or heartfelt, or just wrong and bad?

is the plug the problem? is photoshop the problem?

let's face it: beauty is in the eye, so to speak, and with a well-recorded set of tracks that need a different attitude, massive layering is needed to give the nude that sense of something more, hyperreal or subdued.

some plugs sound great, and while we could argue all day about if the hardware is better, it is not feasible to wring out 5 million bucks worth of hardware to achieve a result when nofuckingbody is gonna notice any difference in the end.

it's all what works in the moment. yes?

rob

[st robert]

I just wanted to know if Charles really uses all those plugins on a real mix or he just did that in the video for instructional purposes. If I was teaching a class in (say) decorating a dining room. I would surely explain and demonstrate how each piece would and would not appeal to the feng shui of the room. If I was just hired to do the job, I would just decorate the room correctly and waste no time with it.


oh. that's easy.

charles?

[Charles Dye]

Chris Angel

Kidz, b4 we go any further... it's "Criss Angel (http://www.crissangel.com/)". Not Chris.

Ya know, just like Peter Criss.

[st robert]

The video is great but I'm missing something. It seems like you (Charles) use an awful lot of plugins. You seem to tweak everything regardless of whether it sounds good or bad. Just tweak tweak tweak.

I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. I just never thought that this is the way to approach audio. I was taught to get the sound at the source first and THEN do minor tweaks to make that sound fit in the mix. The less the better. Especially with plugins.

Are you just using a ton of plugins for instructional purposes or do you really mix that way? Do you really adjust that much on each and every track?

Obviously, we all work different but I was just curious if you need to adjust your work habits for teaching others. Thx.
huh.
sorry you had to ask twice.

i had a fun ride around the world there. thanks.

rob

[Charles Dye]

I just wanted to know if Charles really uses all those plugins on a real mix...

Yes.

Sometimes more + sometimes less.

Whatever it takes.

... or he just did that in the video for instructional purposes.

No.

I took a song I had already mixed for the band eL.

And just walked thru it a plug @ a time.

[Brendo]

some plugs sound great, and while we could argue all day about if the hardware is better, it is not feasible to wring out 5 million bucks worth of hardware to achieve a result when nofuckingbody is gonna notice any difference in the end.
imagine if for each plugin he used, he used a piece of real outboard instead.

imagine the patchbay.

imagine the power bill.

[Shan]

.

[seagate]

.

+1

Every time I see that picture I loose the plot, so what where we talking about?

It's a trick! Princess is really a guy, pretending to be a princess, who would put up a picture of themselves???

As for multiple plugs, if it sounds good why the f*ck not????

[Brendo]

It's a trick! Princess is really a guy, pretending to be a princess, who would put up a picture of themselves???

It's a diversionary tactic! Be strong!

.

[seagate]

Must have skipped your post looking for another copy of the phtot...

:Roll eyes:


:Wink:

[volthause]

i can't believe it took you hounds 9 pages to realize you were getting trolled.

:lol:

[Tim Armstrong]

It's a trick! Princess is really a guy, pretending to be a princess, who would put up a picture of themselves???


:icon_eek:

I'm just saying...

Cheers, Tim

[st robert]

i can't believe it took you hounds 9 pages to realize you were getting trolled.

:lol:

i never said i wasn't a retard.

nice pic though...

rob

[bunnerabb]

"Troll" *cough* *cough* "playing the bitchy chick card" *cough* "Probably not even a girl" *cough *cough*

[seagate]

http://www.msc.id.au/private/tmp/couch.gif

[st robert]

http://solitaryconfinement.us/st_robert.jpg
well, i figured i'd break down and show y'all what i look like. it was sort of a candid shot and i don't think i look good, but what the hell.






































hey! a little eye-contact, please!

fucking pigs.

rob

[Brendo]

i can't believe it took you hounds 9 pages to realize you were getting trolled.

:lol:

I think we worked it out about page 2...

[seagate]

I think we worked it out about page 2...

I just got distracted....:Roll eyes:


http://solitaryconfinement.us/st_robert.jpg
well, i figured i'd break down and show y'all what i look like. it was sort of a candid shot and i don't think i look good, but what the hell.

:icon_eek:

What where we talking about again?

[Mixerman]

Based on the many complaints I have received regarding this alleged matter of trolling (Charles, please stop sending me complaints!) , and in furtherence, based on Princess' proportionally questionable representations, I am launching a full and thorough investigation.

Thanks for your patience in this matter.

In the meantime...

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[seagate]

and in furtherence, based on Princess' proportionally questionable representations, I am launching a full and thorough investigation.

Please let us know if you find any more phtots of her/him/it...


:Coolio:

[Charles Dye]

I am launching a full and thorough investigation.

Our hero!

[Princess]

i can't believe it took you hounds 9 pages to realize you were getting trolled.

:lol:

Troll? No sir. I am here and staying. After a very nice talk with Mixerman tonite, he offered me and a few of my girlfriends a mod position. I assure you boys, we are here to stay. Thx.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg

[Tim Halligan]

Troll? No sir. I am here and staying.

Aww jeez...

Didn't we leave this kind of shit behind at the old joint?

:Roll eyes:

Cheers,
Tim

[seagate]

Troll? No sir. I am here and staying. After a very nice talk with Mixerman tonite, he offered me and a few of my girlfriends a mod position. I assure you boys, we are here to stay. Thx

As long as we get to see more of your whatsits, thats fine by me, otherwise don't let the door hit your a** on the way out.

[bunnerabb]

No self-respecting self-important princess calls dudes "boys".

[Princess]

No self-respecting self-important princess calls dudes "boys".

Self important? Yes. I am the Princess. Although I lost my self respect in the back of a chariot years ago. :Wink:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ac29294da.jpg

[st robert]

Self important? Yes. I am the Princess. Although I lost my self respect in the back of a chariot years ago. :Wink:


the thing about chariots is that there tends to be a lot of horseshit near and in them from the sandals of the driver.

http://solitaryconfinement.us/st_robert.jpg

so there!

rob

[seagate]

the thing about chariots is that there tends to be a lot of horseshit near and in them from the sandals of the driver.

:lol:

[seagate]

Hmmmm

http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?p=13007#post13007

[Shan]

Keep scrolling down. (http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?p=13237#post13237):grin:

Seems like we have lots of one post Womb babes with the same URL these days. :grin:

And of course you'll notice that most of them were registered the same day when you check out the profiles.:Roll eyes:

Womb babe 1 (http://womb.mixerman.net/member.php?u=564)

Womb babe 2 (http://womb.mixerman.net/member.php?u=558)

Womb babe 3 (http://womb.mixerman.net/member.php?u=563)

Womb babe 4 (http://womb.mixerman.net/member.php?u=565)

Womb babe 5 (http://womb.mixerman.net/member.php?u=530)


I wonder if we'll see any catfights over plug-ins. :lol:


Troll? No sir. I am here and staying. After a very nice talk with Mixerman tonite, he offered me and a few of my girlfriends a mod position. I assure you boys, we are here to stay. Thx.

Oh great, the Womb babes are here to stay. :Roll eyes:

Shane :D :D

[seagate]

I wonder if we'll see any catfights over plug-ins. :lol:

:lol:

[Shan]

...Princess is really a guy, pretending to be a princess, who would put up a picture of themselves???

...If you actually believe this then your as deaf as clients are ghey. NTTAWWT.

Troll? No sir. I am here and staying. After a very nice talk with Mixerman tonite, he offered me and a few of my girlfriends a mod position. I assure you boys, we are here to stay. Thx.

Well, just the spelling of "ghey" and the communication style pinpoints more the identity of this person. If you've been around the Marsh, you'll probably figure it out. :very happy: :very happy:

Shane

[seagate]

Well, just the spelling of "ghey" and the communication style pinpoints more the identity of this person. If you've been around the Marsh, you'll probably figure it out. :very happy: :very happy:

Shane

No idea who he is, but there's seomthing wrong with him for sure.

Who would want to be mod of this band of merry men???

:lol:

[Shan]

No idea who he is, but there's seomthing wrong with him for sure.

Well, it looks like we'll have 5 forum transvestites hangin' around then.:grin:

More entertainment I guess. :lol:

Shane

[volthause]

Chicks with dicks.

Not so bling.

[jord]

That definitely raises my question as to whether their use of... errr.... plug-ins... are authentic or are they just for the purposes of this forum. :grin:

jord

[Princess]

Well, just the spelling of "ghey" and the communication style pinpoints more the identity of this person. If you've been around the Marsh, you'll probably figure it out. :very happy: :very happy:

Shane

I originally wrote "gay". As in Mickey Rartin gay. Someone corrected me with the ghey spelling. I guess that's politically correct.

I have nothing against gay men. I'm not afraid of some competition.

And yes. Many of my sisters did sign up the same day. We are skype friends and Mixerman invited the rest of us together. I made up all the similar sig logos. I don't think we were trying to hide the fact that we know each other.

Kisses.

http://womb.mixerman.net/image.php?u=530&dateline=1167731917&type=profile

[Baddo]

.

[idaguide]

Interesting thread, Princess. :Thumbsup:

I think it was in the 'Welcome' thread that Charles 'invited' people to challenge him/each other. It seems a sign of a TRUE guru to not be threatened by confrontation, but to see it as simply part of the dialectic. Good--even great--stuff results.

Peace,
grae

[Empty Planet]

It seems a sign of a TRUE guru to not be threatened by confrontation, but to see it as simply part of the dialectic.



If we flame Charles now...he will only become stronger than we can possibly imagine.

:icon_eek:

[PSN Big Al]

Don't make him mad....you wouldn't like him when he's mad.

[Charles Dye]

:biggreenhulkingmenace: :biggreenhulkingmenace: :biggreenhulkingmenace:


(yeah... like we'd ever have emoticons that cool.)

[BoogieWithStu]

Hey all, thanks for being here.

I've had MILAR for several months, and it definitely has changed the way I look at mixing in the box. While it was never intended as the only way to work, when I am faced with more than twenty tracks, this is a good starting point for a contemporary rock band.

Do I prefer analog? Yes. Do I prefer plugins? Yes. It always depends on the situation. It's sort of like matching the microphone to the singer. With experience, you get to know what works for any situation.

Of course, you all know that, and you all have your own ways of working.

It was a little tough working with MILAR at first because I couldn't get into the song. However, I put that aside, and went purely from the artist's intentions and some of the decisions made sense.

Were a lot of plugins used? No, not at all.:Roll eyes:

Don't forget that to get the intended mix with the stems supplied from the recording engineer, on a console, one might apply a strip EQ the way Charles would in a specialty plugin. I learned by using Cubase 3.7 - SX 3 that outboard EQs and better plugins were essential - the stock DAW EQs were crap. In PT LE I avoid all stock plugs. In the HD rigs I've used, it happened that the source material I worked with didn't need much tweaking - fewer tracks as well.

Asleep yet?

Use what works - yeah PSM Big Al!

Good to hear from you all. Be nice.:very happy: :Twisted:

[Brendo]

About the stock plugs in PT... have you tried the EQ and Dyn III plugs? Much better than EQ and Dyn II.

[EricTheKid]

I learned by using Cubase 3.7 - SX 3 that outboard EQs and better plugins were essential - the stock DAW EQs were crap. In PT LE I avoid all stock plugs.

I've found Digi's stock plugs (such as EQ III and Dyn III) to be very transparent. This is not a huge suprise to me ...Digidesign seems to take great pride in transparency.

But I believe the stock plugs definitely can be useful. Just don't apply them expecting them to add a lot of color to your sounds.