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archtop
August 5th, 2008, 02:55 AM
It seems like when a project has the budget for mastering,
they turn it into a sausage.

And for this sausage they usually get 1/4 or 1/3 of the recording budget.

I'm not exactly thrilled.

Although in the mastering cats defense I know the client feels
louder is always better and it just can't be too loud, there is no such thing in his world as too loud, because that would just be even better .. right :Roll eyes: .

M.Brane
August 5th, 2008, 03:34 AM
Well it is loud. I don't even have to listen to it to know that.:lol:

Of course after looking at it I don't really want to listen to it.:Roll eyes:

Charles Dye
August 5th, 2008, 04:07 AM
OMG... that IS loud.

And lifeless.

Sad.

IntelDoc
August 5th, 2008, 04:33 AM
SERIOUSLY???????

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..

NO....

SERIOUSLY???? Did you pay for that?

:Thumbdown: :Thumbdown:

qharley
August 5th, 2008, 05:58 AM
OMG... that IS loud.

And lifeless.

Sad.

You sure we are looking a music at all here? (April is long gone so it cannot be a fools joke :Roll eyes: )

Did you attend the session, or was it one of those "Give it to me and I'll FIX IT UP"

So, anyone knows what is happening on the "Turn Me Up!" front? I registered, and still haven't heard anything since that. We need to stamp out this idiocy. No ones music should be subjected to such violation! I would have done a better job when I started out 5 years ago... (and looking back, I would not have recommended the me of 5 years ago at all :grin: )

Slipperman
August 5th, 2008, 06:22 AM
Nice acoustic guitar intro.

What does it look like when the band comes in?

SM.

MudCat
August 5th, 2008, 06:48 AM
Nice acoustic guitar intro.

What does it look like when the band comes in?

SM.


:grin:

Goes211
August 5th, 2008, 07:58 AM
Nice acoustic guitar intro.

What does it look like when the band comes in?

SM.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Immanuel
August 5th, 2008, 09:29 AM
That is serriously an amateurs work right there. Look at the part somewhere around 2:17. It obviously could be louder.:Thumbdown:

Goes211
August 5th, 2008, 09:41 AM
That is serriously an amateurs work right there. Look at the part somewhere around 2:17. It obviously could be louder.:Thumbdown:

Exactly. I mean, there are clearly some dynamics left in there.
The nerve of these guys.
Who is this ? Vlad Jr ?

qharley
August 5th, 2008, 09:46 AM
Exactly. I mean, there are clearly some dynamics left in there.
The nerve of these guys.
Who is this ? Vlad Jr ?

Still thinking we are merely looking at a block of 15kHz sine, normalised to 0. The slight dip is merely a recording glitch...

Wait... that would mean it retained all of its original dynamics :Uh oh:

Bob Olhsson
August 5th, 2008, 02:10 PM
If mastering is actually getting a third or fourth of the budget, we're probably talking about some real turd polishing since decent graphics generally cost quite a bit more than mastering.

PRobb
August 5th, 2008, 02:18 PM
Sausage? Looks more like a 2x4 to me.

nobby
August 5th, 2008, 02:42 PM
Nice acoustic guitar intro.

What does it look like when the band comes in?

SM.

LMFBO

I think Arch is yanking our collective chain.

Richard, please tell us you're yanking our collective chain.

archtop
August 5th, 2008, 03:35 PM
Man I wish I was yanking your chain.

The guy thinks louder is better.
I've gone round and round with him, givin' him data
sent him links to papers, he won't budge.
To him louder is better.

And I was wrong about a 1/3 of the budget for this one, I forgot about the other studios we went to to track one day in and the other studios to mix for 3 days, and the pressing etc.

I was thinking of some of my other projects
that were done for under a grand, and then 3-500 for mastering/sausage making ....but I'm not bitter :(

I have another one that is going off to mastering, and this guy
does not want it turned into a chorizo, he actually wants it to IMPROVE the sonics,
but it will be about 1/3 of the recording budget,
so we'll see if I can be swayed
from my " You've fucked up another one of my recordings
in the quest for volume" reality.

But I really think in my world [the trenches] where most of the full length records are done for $500 -$1000
[I'm $30 an hour, and I don't fuck around]
there is no place/room/budget/need for mastering.

Givin' a cat 1/3 of the budget to tweak the 2 channel master
is fucking outta line and unnecessary in this situation.

But I'm not bitter :Roll eyes:

Here's a pic of the same mastered mix followed by the unmastered mix,...just so you know.

nobby
August 5th, 2008, 03:48 PM
My ears hurt just looking at that thang.

M.Brane
August 5th, 2008, 03:56 PM
Sausage? Looks more like a 2x4 to me.


I was thinking brick. A 2x4 has some grain to it.

qharley
August 5th, 2008, 04:35 PM
Would you mind posting your fav 10s of the song, and the equivalent 10s "mastered"

Just like to hear what that sounds like... :D

But honestly, the ME should stand up for his/her craft.

Makes me think of a time me and some friends toured Europe, and being in Italy for a few days, we naturally ordered everything Italian to eat. Pasta etc. One of the guys did not like Pasta at all, and decided to order a steak. Well done. right.

So we all got our food, and even the Lasagne came, but no steak. After we were eating for around 10min he got a bit impatient, and asked the waiter if his steak is ready. The guy said her would call the Chef.

After some loud voices coming from the kitchen, the chef stormed out with a raw piece of meat on a plate. He threw the plate in front of the offending customer, unceremoniously poured cooking spirits over it and set it alight.

"If you want burnt meat, you burn it yourself!!!" - and with that he turned around and stormed back into the kitchen.

We should not allow this guy to burn his music...

weedywet
August 5th, 2008, 04:36 PM
...
But I really think in my world [the trenches] where most of the full length records are done for $500 -$1000
[I'm $30 an hour, and I don't fuck around]
there is no place/room/budget/need for mastering.

Givin' a cat 1/3 of the budget to tweak the 2 channel master
is fucking outta line and unnecessary in this situation.

.

well, there's never a need for BAD mastering.
and always a need for good mastering.

the fact that a mastering guy can INSIST on a decent rate and that recording engineers and producers and studios CAN'T is the problem.
but that's not the mastering guy's fault.

Goes211
August 5th, 2008, 04:37 PM
Here's a pic of the same mastered mix followed by the unmastered mix,...just so you know.

Sweet fancy Moses. That is pure evil.

tannoy
August 5th, 2008, 05:27 PM
Here's a pic of the same mastered mix followed by the unmastered mix,...just so you know.

I really thought you were kidding around and that you would tell us somewhen that the whole thing is a big hoax...

...obviously it isn't. :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:

Friggin' unbelievable!

There's no room for hope.

:Sad:

magicchord
August 5th, 2008, 05:36 PM
Come ON!
That "mastered" waveform is a TONE!
Fess up...

Charles Dye
August 5th, 2008, 05:45 PM
Here's a pic of the same mastered mix followed by the unmastered mix,...just so you know.

Dood... that should be illegal... seriously.


And I oughta know... I've laid a few felonious bricks in my past.

sqkychair
August 5th, 2008, 06:10 PM
Arch,
I would never want to actually listen to that thing myself, so, can you describe what that actually sounds like?

nobby
August 5th, 2008, 08:00 PM
Arch,
I would never want to actually listen to that thing myself, so, can you describe what that actually sounds like?

Be careful what you ask for. He might send you a clip and tell you to describe it to him.

sqkychair
August 5th, 2008, 08:54 PM
I am going to guess that it sounds kind of like this:

5775

nobby
August 5th, 2008, 09:05 PM
Would you mind posting your fav 10s of the song, and the equivalent 10s "mastered"

Just like to hear what that sounds like... :D

Gotta admit, I'm curious in a train wreck kinda way. Ten seconds would be more than enough, though.


But honestly, the ME should stand up for his/her craft.

Makes me think of a time me and some friends toured Europe, and being in Italy for a few days, we naturally ordered everything Italian to eat. Pasta etc. One of the guys did not like Pasta at all, and decided to order a steak. Well done. right.

So we all got our food, and even the Lasagne came, but no steak. After we were eating for around 10min he got a bit impatient, and asked the waiter if his steak is ready. The guy said her would call the Chef.

After some loud voices coming from the kitchen, the chef stormed out with a raw piece of meat on a plate. He threw the plate in front of the offending customer, unceremoniously poured cooking spirits over it and set it alight.

"If you want burnt meat, you burn it yourself!!!" - and with that he turned around and stormed back into the kitchen.

We should not allow this guy to burn his music...

That's a noble thought. This subject has come up a number of times, and the consensus is that you can steer someone in the right direction but if they're adamant about it, they'll go elsewhere if push comes to shove.

The Italian chef in your anecdote may get a request for steak once a year, so he can afford to lay down the law on a tiny percentage of his customers.

Richard, for what you're charging, you should do the mastering in-house, unless the client is picky and wants to pay extra, in which case you can send it to an expert.

As I see it (judging from stuff you've done that I've heard), you are a sonic perfectionist.

You want to film a gazelle bounding gracefully across the savanna.

The client wants the same thing, but wants the gazelle torn to bits by a lion.

And then run over by a fully-laden cement truck.

Followed by a bulldozer, which parks on top of the gazelle.

And is hit by an air strike.

Basically, my advice is to advise the client that without an intervention (http://turnmeup.org/) he or she is looking down the road to ruin.

Then, if they still insist, swallow your pride, grab an L2 and a linear phase EQ or whatever, and take the remaining 33%.

Dave Perry
August 5th, 2008, 09:27 PM
At first I thought I must not understand what I was supposed to be looking at, but with the before and after---how is this even possible? How can you turn waves into blocks?

Can we hear this?

Dave Perry
August 5th, 2008, 09:29 PM
Has anyone seen maximizing taken to this extreme before?

It's like the loudness equivalent of full global thermonuclear war.

RWC
August 6th, 2008, 02:26 AM
Man I wish I was yanking your chain.

The guy thinks louder is better.
I've gone round and round with him, givin' him data
sent him links to papers, he won't budge.
To him louder is better.

And I was wrong about a 1/3 of the budget for this one, I forgot about the other studios we went to to track one day in and the other studios to mix for 3 days, and the pressing etc.

I was thinking of some of my other projects
that were done for under a grand, and then 3-500 for mastering/sausage making ....but I'm not bitter :(

I have another one that is going off to mastering, and this guy
does not want it turned into a chorizo, he actually wants it to IMPROVE the sonics,
but it will be about 1/3 of the recording budget,
so we'll see if I can be swayed
from my " You've fucked up another one of my recordings
in the quest for volume" reality.

But I really think in my world [the trenches] where most of the full length records are done for $500 -$1000
[I'm $30 an hour, and I don't fuck around]
there is no place/room/budget/need for mastering.

Givin' a cat 1/3 of the budget to tweak the 2 channel master
is fucking outta line and unnecessary in this situation.

But I'm not bitter :Roll eyes:

Here's a pic of the same mastered mix followed by the unmastered mix,...just so you know.

the mastered one is easier on the eyes. :)