CAPE 7 announcement !!!

[Goes211]

http://www.thewombforums.com/images/cape/Cape7-announcement.gif

The planets are aligned, the madness has begun
tune your axes, bang your drum
dim the lights and warm up the amps
hit the red button, let glow the lava lamps
tape is rolling and you can't escape
it must be time for a new edition of CAPE !

What is CAPE ?
CAPE is the acronym for Collaborative Audio Production Experience. In other words, it is the most exciting internet music collaboration you can find online, and part of what makes the Womb such a cool hang.
This will be the 7th edition of CAPE, and you can get a taste of the great music created through CAPE on our very own CAPE RADIO (http://womb.mixerman.net/radio/cape/index.php).

How does it work ?
Very simple : starting august 17, you'll be able to sign up in the CAPE Zone forum (http://thewombforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7) and tell us in what capacity you would like to participate. List your instrument of choice, your vocal ability or your producer skills and we will assign you to a team of fellow musicians.
Together, starting on september 7, you will have about 3 months to come up with the best rendition of a song. As your fellow teammates will possibly be spread out over several continents, this will happen by exchanging audio files over the internet.

Who can signup and participate in CAPE ?
Any member of thewombforums.com may sign up for CAPE. It's free.
All we ask is that you sign off on a few rules and allow us to play the finished song on the CAPE RADIO (http://womb.mixerman.net/radio/cape/index.php).
We will provide each team with a private team forum accessible only to them (and thewombforums.com admins, of course).

I am new at these online collaborations...can you help me ?
We will guide you through more detailed information when the signups start (august 17), but in the meantime you can read some informative info right here (http://thewombforums.com/showthread.php?t=613) . Of course we will do our best to help you out in case of problems but we assume your are familiar with some kind of basic recording techniques and file transfer over the internet.
We also assume that if you sign up...it is because you WANT to play the game. No sense in signing up if you know your schedule won't allow you to spend some time to work with your team during the next 3 months.

What will be expected of me ?
You'll be expected to be able to deliver audio tracks of your own performance.
You should be able to record your instrument or vocal and deliver tracks in audio file format (to be determined within the team).
You should be able to upload and download files and thus be at least a little familiar with file transfer over the internet.
Alternatively, if you sign up as a mixer, you'll be expected to have access to either a mixing console or mixing software.

We expect you to be able to communicate. Either via the internet (forum messages, e-mail, Skype, whatever works) or via regular phone.
Don't sign up if you can't be reached or can't be bothered to discuss stuff relating to the event with your teammates.
And if real-life stuff steps in and puts your participation in jeopardy...it's no biggie and it's happened before.
All we ask is that you inform your teammates and the CAPE admins.

Finally, we expect you to be a team player. We are not curing grave illnesses here. It's OK to be passionate about your music, but keep in mind that this should be a FUN event. Don't sign up if you can't stand the idea of someone tweaking your precious contribution. But really, there is not much to fear. Listen to the songs here (http://womb.mixerman.net/radio/cape/index.php). If all goes according to plans, you'll be hearing your own performance there in 3 months.
How cool is that ?

But what song will we play ?
We are always trying to find new challenges for CAPE. Over the years we've had people signing up as songwriters, we've also had teams coming up with songs from scratch.
This time we've decided to provide the songs up front. Our very own Steve McAllister has granted us the use of 3 extremely cool songs. Your team will pick one and turn it into your own production.
You must keep the lyrics and the melody...beyond that...it's wide open.

Who will be in charge of the team ?
During the early editions of CAPE, each team had a "point man". The point man role was meant to be that of a coordinator, but in reality it turned out that very often the point man acted as a de-facto producer.
We changed that for CAPE 6, which saw the introduction of the "producer" role. This time again, teams will have a producer. Rest assured we will hand pick producers and brief them at length on their privileges AND duties.
The producer will have final say, but he will have to remember this is CAPE and that he must act within the boundaries of the event. We will supervise the producers and be in close touch with them.

What happens when the team is done ?
Each team should turn in their production by december 1st, and we will have our grand reveal day on december 7, 2008.
The finished songs will be available for download and streaming on our CAPE radio.
Reveal day is known to be a gigantic lovefest with much backslapping and virtual cheering. Constructive criticism is encouraged too.
Hopefully, you will have grown a little as a musician from the experience and you will have met peers from across the globe with a different perspective.
As with all things internet, you can make friends or enemies. Experience shows us the former will be the case more often than the latter.
A positive attitude and an open mind will work wonders, as in real life.

Stay tuned for the signups !

CAPE 7 timeline :
signups start : august 17
CAPE 7 start : september 7
deadline : december 1st
CAPE 7 reveal : december 7

[Immanuel]

Just great :)

[Ashley Smith]

Yeh baby!!! Can't wait!!!

:D

[Unfcknblvbl]

CAPE 7 reveal : december 7

As a clarification for Aardy, you should say which year...


.
.

[Azraphael]

Well, someone has to ask... might as well be me....

Only 3 songs? And all by the same songwriter? For an event that typically seems to have 12-15 teams, and continues to grow with each iteration?

Seems overly restrictive to me.

Don't get me wrong, I love McAllister's material, and think he's a great songwriter... but I honestly think that one of the huge appeals of CAPE has always been knowing that there's going to be a ton of new ear candy to listen to at the end of it.

Having all the teams work from the same extremely shallow pool of material (no matter how good it might be) seems diametrically opposed to that idea. Yeah, there's a ton of talented people here, and I'm sure there will be a few variations... but when the rules state that you have to keep the lyrics and the melody, how much variation can realistically be expected?

Also, aren't there already events around here focused this way? Womb Tune Factory, Mix-It, etc.... there's plenty of options for events to focus on different ways to view similar (or the same) source material. Sure, Hollywood might be out of ideas and have some sick need to remake everything under the sun, but why should we?

As I said, there's some very talented people around these parts. CAPE is, in my opinion, one event where I think we really get a chance to hear a lot of people shine in their own unique ways. I'm concerned that such might not be the case with this setup.

CAPE has been such a blast that I really want to do it again... I just don't know if this is really going to feel like CAPE, with everyone doing the same 3 songs.

Consider me undecided, but figured I'd mention this out loud anyway. Somehow I doubt I was the only person wondering this.

Cheers,

Dave

PS: I'm back, and I bet you missed me, didn't you? :)

[Ashley Smith]

Here here to what Dave said, I was too wasted to ask... lol.

[Goes211]

We see CAPE as a work in progress...all the time. The day CAPE becomes a set formula, I'm afraid we will all get bored real fast.
Mc Allister's tunes are way above par, and we are very excited by the prospect of hearing what the teams will come up with.

As for the 3 tunes...we can tell you they are WIDE OPEN for interpretation...and THAT is going to be the challenge this time. The range of possibilities is only going to be limited by YOUR creativity, trust me. Are you up for it ? :Wink:

Don't think for a second we do this without "getting a sense of the room". And if the formula this time around isn't your cup of tea... no biggie...there will be other editions of CAPE.
Expect more challenges of the musical kind, though.
:Coolio:

[Cosmic Pig]

I thinks its a cool idea. Stripped back to words and melody you can spin a tune in almost any genre direction. My only concern is that the competition level will go up. There's a lot of great players here but there's also a lot of less advanced players who play for fun on the side or haven't been at it that long.

However, that would be an job for the producers to address... of which I am so not gonna be one. Haha. As a wise old bass player once told me, you learn much faster when you play with players better than yourself.

Cos.

[Azraphael]

Will we get to hear demos of the tunes prior to deciding whether or not to sign up?

Cheers,

Dave

[EyreSpace]

The collaborative aspect appears to be taking a back seat to the experimental. I suppose satire, lampoon and mockery may be the most creative choice when everyone is reduced to working on the Emperor's New Clothes.

Enjoyment may be found in observation rather than participation.

Of course, YMMV.

[Cosmic Pig]

may be the most creative choice when everyone is reduced to working on the Emperor's New Clothes.



That cracked me up on many levels Eyre. Eventually we're all Emperors strutting around naked convinced only those of appropriate station can see our finery. The threads are invisible to all but the poster.

There's too much gawddam dope around here. How inna good fuck am I supposed to get any work done. Or as my Gramma used to say; good night nurse.

Cos.

[Grapestomper]

Will we get to hear demos of the tunes prior to deciding whether or not to sign up?

Cheers,

Dave

I'd like to second Az's question, with this refinement: Will people get to hear demos before they decide whether or not to put in as Producer?

I only opted to try producing last time because I knew I had a specific idea to bring to one of the songs.

Not sure I'd have the nerve to go in sight-unseen (ear-unheard?), even though I know that "The Wierdo" is one hell of a songwriter.



Still trying to decide if I belong in this one...
Mike

[Goes211]

The collaborative aspect appears to be taking a back seat to the experimental. I suppose satire, lampoon and mockery may be the most creative choice when everyone is reduced to working on the Emperor's New Clothes.

Enjoyment may be found in observation rather than participation.

Of course, YMMV.

Not quite sure I make sense of your comment, especially the satire, lampoon and above all mockery part ?!? And the Emperor's New Clothes ? Care to elaborate ? Thank you.

The collaborative aspect will be as important as ever. I don't see how it could be different. But with participants knowing that other teams will be doing the same tune, we are encouraging them to think outside the box.
My guess is that we are going to see a wide array of renditions, and that is an exciting prospect.

"CAPE as usual" isn't in the cards here folks.
And the elusive "perfect" collab only happens once in a blue moon, regardless of the formula. There is, though, a saying about enjoying the journey.
Remember you can do your very own perfect collab outside of CAPE any day of the year, and those first-choice-handpicked teammates are only a PM away. :Coolio:

[EyreSpace]

Satire, Lampoon and Mockery all have the same meaning. I was thinking of a Frank Zappa humourous approach; tongue firmly planted in cheek. Should be entertaining, don't you think?

[EyreSpace]

And the Emperor's New Clothes refers to songs we haven't heard yet. Get it?

[leester]

And the Emperor's New Clothes refers to songs we haven't heard yet. Get it?

heh... I thought it was something else. Don't make me do it. :icon_eek:





BTW - I think I wanna play, but am on the fence for similar reasons. There's tends to be a sense of individuality developed with each team, and somehow the "same songs" part threatens that aspect of it.

I mean, we never woulda heard the wit of Team Galactic had they been stuck with an existing set of lyrics... ya know?

15 new tunes after a lot of work, vs. three to add to my collection...

Blah blah blah - I'm sure it'll be a blast, and I'm sure there will still be some real gems come from it, but I'm ridin' the fence a lil more for the time being.

Hearing the 3 would certainly aid in the decision-making process.

mees
still nekkid hehe :lol:

[chckn8r]

I thinks its a cool idea. Stripped back to words and melody you can spin a tune in almost any genre direction. My only concern is that the competition level will go up. There's a lot of great players here but there's also a lot of less advanced players who play for fun on the side or haven't been at it that long.

However, that would be an job for the producers to address... of which I am so not gonna be one. Haha. As a wise old bass player once told me, you learn much faster when you play with players better than yourself.

Cos.

I too think this is an interesting new twist in the CAPE thang. Yeah, there might not be the breadth of tasty new ear candy that has come out in past CAPE's, but then again, there might! Dang it, just look at what came out of last CAPE when you A/B the originals to the CAPE versions, a lot of the tunes sounded nothing like the same thing. Very creative stuff.

I think it's a cool path to try out.

-- D

[nobby]

I think this is an interesting change up. I think we'll see some radically different approaches to the same songs.

We can go back to a different song for each team in CAPE 8.

[Charles Dye]

Sounds awesome!!! :Thumbsup: :Thumbsup: :Thumbsup:

[TubaSolo]

Well, someone has to ask... might as well be me....

Only 3 songs?

Why not just one song?.. That would have been totally hilarious.

But three is still cool. :D

[Swafford]

Cool idea. Maybe Cape 8 they can just supply a drum and bass track that has to be used on all submitted songs.

[Goes211]

On CAPE 8 all tracks will have to be autotuned and brickwalled.
:D

[vocalnick]

Sounds like an interesting twist :)

[otek]

There's tends to be a sense of individuality developed with each team, and somehow the "same songs" part threatens that aspect of it.

I disagree with that.

If anything, I think this concept will shine more light on the individuality of the team, because the whole deal is the individual treatment of a fixed selection of songs, rather than the song itself setting the team apart.

The challenge, then, becomes about personalization, and the individuality will be made clearer by the comparison between teams working on the same tune.


otek

[Eddie G]

And the elusive "perfect" collab only happens once in a blue moon, regardless of the formula. There is, though, a saying about enjoying the journey.
Remember you can do your very own perfect collab outside of CAPE any day of the year, and those first-choice-handpicked teammates are only a PM away. :Coolio:

word.

to every ground, there's an underground.

Love you guys, but I'm sitting out.

Eddie

[seagate]

I disagree with that.

If anything, I think this concept will shine more light on the individuality of the team, because the whole deal is the individual treatment of a fixed selection of songs, rather than the song itself setting the team apart.

The challenge, then, becomes about personalization, and the individuality will be made clearer by the comparison between teams working on the same tune.

Might as well take this concept all the way and have everyone work on the same song...

It'll be sad not have all this new iPod fodder at the reveal...

[leester]

I disagree with that.

If anything, I think this concept will shine more light on the individuality of the team, because the whole deal is the individual treatment of a fixed selection of songs, rather than the song itself setting the team apart.

The challenge, then, becomes about personalization, and the individuality will be made clearer by the comparison between teams working on the same tune.


otek

I can agree with that. Still kinda reminds me of the thong thang... which was way cool. :Coolio:

lees

[chckn8r]

I disagree with that.

If anything, I think this concept will shine more light on the individuality of the team, because the whole deal is the individual treatment of a fixed selection of songs, rather than the song itself setting the team apart.

The challenge, then, becomes about personalization, and the individuality will be made clearer by the comparison between teams working on the same tune.


otek

Here here! Well said Otek!

[sqkychair]

C'mon people, it'll be cool.

Let's say you are the guitar player on a song. It will be interesting to hear how the other guitar players interpreted things. Kind of compare and contrast with what you came up with.

[Johnny]

It will be cool...and most of us are here for the long run. I want to be part of every CAPE, no matter how it's set up.

[pacAir]

I too think this is a great change-up (from a player's perspective anyway).

Since Producers are being assigned again, will they be choosing the song, direction and musical parts needed as it was last time or will there be more "band" Collaboration as in previous Capes?

Every one of these changes in direction have and will yield interesting results but with all the possible permutations the current "feature set" must be well spelled-out and understood by the participants.

Since we are starting up Cape 7, what about the mysterious never-released Cape 6 tunes (or did I miss something, in which case I apologize now)?

Steve

[omikl]

C'mon people, it'll be cool.

Let's say you are the guitar player on a song. It will be interesting to hear how the other guitar players interpreted things. Kind of compare and contrast with what you came up with.

Yeah. Then we can all agree that Mudcat did the best job & all go home :lol:

[tannoy]

On CAPE 8 all tracks will have to be autotuned and brickwalled.
:D

HA!

So the 8 will appear someday...the 8!
Told ya!

:D

[otek]

Since Producers are being assigned again, will they be choosing the song, direction and musical parts needed as it was last time or will there be more "band" Collaboration as in previous Capes?

I don't know how Goes211 and the others feel about it, but here's my take:

I deal with session musicians on a fairly regular basis. I don't think I've even been in a situation where the session guys just sit around and wait for me to lead them around by their noses. Good session musicians always contribute on many levels to the recording.

Whenever you walk into a session, there's a tremendous amount of musical experience sitting before you. I want to tap into that. I want to draw experience, energy and inspiration from it. Occasionally, I even want it to save my ass.

So when I am working with a CaPE team, I want everyone to brainstorm and come up with ideas, try things, and be active.

CaPE doesn't have to be a complete free-for-all to be a rewarding collaboration, but with the producer model, it can be a great "supervised exchange".


otek

[Cosmic Pig]

I agree with you Otek, but the trouble is you don't walk into a cape session. You also don't get to pick the players for the part, and those two factors put together can complicate things considerably.

So when I am working with a CaPE team, I want everyone to brainstorm and come up with ideas, try things, and be active.

That was my theory with our team, but it didn't really work out. If you recall I started out that way and you and Goes211 and Mudcat came up with something that was a total different direction from how I saw it, and it didn't help things when I turned down all your work. The producer either has to come up with full arrangements and parts for every player or let the players produce themselves. Very much depending on who's assigned to the team. I wrote posts and recorded talking/playing mp3's about direction for days, and when the tracks came in it was as if half the team hadn't read or listened to anything at all.

Buuut anyways, I could go on for hours about where the team went sideways. The trouble is every curve thrown at the producer takes weeks to sort out online. The biggest thing is, when in the studio with the player you can stop it mid track and point out a problem, then start again. 2 minutes. Online the tracks come in and you point out a problem and it takes the player a week to find time, reset everything in their studio, retrack and ftp it. And thats all assuming the player actually read what you posted about the problem. If you recall one of our players retracked the same problem twice.

Different ballgame online altogether. I do agree with you, just the online factor changes the logistics quite a bit.

Cos.

[dikledoux]

Buuut anyways, I could go on for hours about where the team went sideways. The trouble is every curve thrown at the producer takes weeks to sort out online.
Yeah, that Otek, Goes, Mudcat. Notorious for throwing curveballs and screwing up teams. How anything gets done when those guys are involved is beyond me. :Roll eyes:

dik

[B3Nut]

I'll be game...this should be a fun one!

TP

[QweziRider]

The producer either has to come up with full arrangements and parts for every player or let the players produce themselves. Not entirely true. We found a good middle ground last time around.

[Swafford]

On CAPE 8 all tracks will have to be autotuned and brickwalled.
:D

Yes, but you will have to use the JJP preset so the 8 would look more like o but sound like ~.

[otek]

That was my theory with our team, but it didn't really work out. If you recall I started out that way and you and Goes211 and Mudcat came up with something that was a total different direction from how I saw it, and it didn't help things when I turned down all your work.

Well, to be honest, Mudcat, Goes and I came up with essentially three separate ideas - or variations on a theme. Mudcat's vision was notably different from my own, and he was no direct fan of my idea. Which is all good. My point is it was no unified vision, it was an assortment of player ideas.

I am debating whether this thread is the right format to discuss these things, but since it kind of bears on the direction of the upcoming CaPE, I'll give it a go:

I think one danger of any studio proceedings - regardless of level, but perhaps particularly important around here - is when the producer thinks too much in terms of black and white. In our particular case, we're not talking about the healthy discussion and gradual or partial adaptation of the player's ideas which are part of a good session, we are talking about flat out vetoing ANYTHING that even veered an inch from the producer's vision, right down to individual kick drum hits.

Micro-managing players is a case of diminishing returns, and while I agree that in select cases it might be necessary, it must always be gauged against other factors such as dwindling inspiration and behavioral conditioning - if you worry too much about a seedling in a pot, it will die, and if you tell a guy too often what to do, he will eventually stop taking the initiative. It's as simple as that.

The irony of micro-managing is that for all the effort, you may still end up with something that's quite far removed from your original vision - such is the power of influence of the musicians - but it runs the risk of sounding flat and uninspired.

I wasn't participating too much in our team's discussion, and there was a reason for this, too - I was told at a fairly early stage, by you, to sit tight and wait for the mix. So I did.

I fully agree with your observation that production on the internet, in so much as it is even possible to accomplish, takes a lot longer than it does IRL. I also agree that people tend to be lax sometimes about written instruction, this has been true of every single CaPE I've been in. But I also believe when it comes to producing music, certain basic, human things still apply, and have to be taken into account.


After all, basic, human things is what production is all about.



Cheers,

otek

[themadass]

... what about the mysterious never-released Cape 6 tunes ...?


What mysterious never-released Cape 6 tunes? :D

[Cosmic Pig]

Well, to be honest, Mudcat, Goes and I came up with essentially three separate ideas - or variations on a theme. Mudcat's vision was notably different from my own, and he was no direct fan of my idea. Which is all good. My point is it was no unified vision, it was an assortment of player ideas.

I am debating whether this thread is the right format to discuss these things, but since it kind of bears on the direction of the upcoming CaPE, I'll give it a go:

I think one danger of any studio proceedings - regardless of level, but perhaps particularly important around here - is when the producer thinks too much in terms of black and white. In our particular case, we're not talking about the healthy discussion and gradual or partial adaptation of the player's ideas which are part of a good session, we are talking about flat out vetoing ANYTHING that even veered an inch from the producer's vision, right down to individual kick drum hits.

Micro-managing players is a case of diminishing returns, and while I agree that in select cases it might be necessary, it must always be gauged against other factors such as dwindling inspiration and behavioral conditioning - if you worry too much about a seedling in a pot, it will die, and if you tell a guy too often what to do, he will eventually stop taking the initiative. It's as simple as that.

The irony of micro-managing is that for all the effort, you may still end up with something that's quite far removed from your original vision - such is the power of influence of the musicians - but it runs the risk of sounding flat and uninspired.

I wasn't participating too much in our team's discussion, and there was a reason for this, too - I was told at a fairly early stage, by you, to sit tight and wait for the mix. So I did.

I fully agree with your observation that production on the internet, in so much as it is even possible to accomplish, takes a lot longer than it does IRL. I also agree that people tend to be lax sometimes about written instruction, this has been true of every single CaPE I've been in. But I also believe when it comes to producing music, certain basic, human things still apply, and have to be taken into account.


After all, basic, human things is what production is all about.



Cheers,

otek

Excellent post Otek. I do that black and white micromanage thing when producing in my own studio too, sometimes to my detriment.

The hard part I guess, with cape and anywhere, is achieving a unified vision without stomping the players. I tend to stomp and need to work on that. Cosmic Wifey has said that exact thing before too.

Quezirider, Ya you guys nailed that. Its still a favorite on my ipod.

But getting back to cape 7, the more I think about it the more I like the idea of 3 tunes for everyone. I think the opportunity for learning is greater when you can hear what others do with the same material.

Cos.

[Carlo]

But getting back to cape 7, the more I think about it the more I like the idea of 3 tunes for everyone. I think the opportunity for learning is greater when you can hear what others do with the same material.

Cos.

I may regret this, but... ShredBed 2 version??Evil!

[MudCat]

That was my theory with our team, but it didn't really work out. If you recall I started out that way and you and Goes211 and Mudcat came up with something that was a total different direction from how I saw it, and it didn't help things when I turned down all your work. The producer either has to come up with full arrangements and parts for every player or let the players produce themselves. Very much depending on who's assigned to the team. I wrote posts and recorded talking/playing mp3's about direction for days, and when the tracks came in it was as if half the team hadn't read or listened to anything at all.

Buuut anyways, I could go on for hours about where the team went sideways. The trouble is every curve thrown at the producer takes weeks to sort out online. The biggest thing is, when in the studio with the player you can stop it mid track and point out a problem, then start again. 2 minutes. Online the tracks come in and you point out a problem and it takes the player a week to find time, reset everything in their studio, retrack and ftp it. And thats all assuming the player actually read what you posted about the problem. If you recall one of our players retracked the same problem twice.

Different ballgame online altogether. I do agree with you, just the online factor changes the logistics quite a bit.

Cos.

I've been out of town a few days and missed this......I have refrained from posting on this all this time, despite all your pompous bs in various threads, particularly the JBeck thread.

But here's the deal Pig.....

This sounds amazingly like you are actually justifiying the fact that you alone fizzled this team into the dust. You see the problem as coming from anybody but you.

But the truth is this. We were given an excellent AnnaB song to work with, and Anna gave us persmission to be creative with it. Otek, Goes, and myself all had discussions with you on skype as to what musical directions we might take with it (as is normal and healthy on a cape team). Initially you seemed open to this, and each of us threw down a throwaway idea (we are pros, and know not to be too attached to initial ideas, because that's all they are.....ideas.). But you shot each one down, one by one, in favor of doing the song as blues/rock (hehe), apparently the only genre you know. At that point, Otek tactfully warned that we shouldn't just try to 'beat the demo' by just covering the same thing with 'blue/rock' guitars, but that didn't faze you. And although blues/rock was probably the last genre I would pick for this song, we decided to sit back and watch you produce...and just wait for our time to play/sing/mix.

What followed was months(and way past the deadline) of watching you post mp3's of yourself talking over yourself playing bluesy guitar, searching for a simple arrangement.....very amateur stuff. ("How about we go blang, blang, blang.......and the toms come in here with bum, bum, bum.....Chshhhhh!!!"). When you finally came up with an 'arrangement', well after the turn-in-final-mix date, then came micro-managing the drummer, bass player, and organ player into the ground. I think the kick drum part alone took up a month, and the rest was similar.

The thing that got me most, I think, was when Goes tried to reason with you, and you invited him (or anybody else) to quit if they didn't like your 'vision'. You even told Otek that you'de find another mixer if he didn't want to do it.

I kinda threw up my hands at that point. Here, you've got the opportunity to work with (and learn from) 2 of the most talented, experienced people around here, and you're inviting them to quit a cape team for the first time. I admire Goes for even submitting a vocal at all after that, and I think he only did it in the name of finishing a cape team. Same with Otek.......he verbally committed to you that he would do a mix, even after it ceased being a real cape team.

As for me.......you've mentioned a few places that the reason I left was that I was 'busy'.........yeah, I was busy, but I usually always finish what I start. The real reason I quit, was that all inspiration to even play on the song was gone, and I just didn't feel it anymore.

So basically, you took a good AnnaB song, a good cape team, and centered the whole thing around a GUITAR SOLO....... Congratulations!

Now all this said..... Cos, I find you to be a likeable guy, and I wish you the best. But yeah.....that's the back story of you as a 'producer'.

mudcat/Roy Howell

[bbkong]

I have coffee in my nose.

[padboy]

I have coffee in my nose.

I have nose in my coffee

[B3Nut]

And he wonders why I didn't do a solo. After his infamous "we probably won't do a keyboard solo, but I'm thinkin...maybe we should do a solo, but we might end up cutting it after" comment I figured it was well past the point of being worth the trouble. Why drag my one working Leslie back home from my church gig to cut a part that would have most likely been ditched in favor of more guitar noodling? If it was summertime it wouldn't be an issue, but in the middle of the snowiest winter on record for the greater Madison area, no way!

I'm rather bummed that I didn't get to hear what Roy would have done, but I didn't blame him for giving up, and I don't. I had pretty much given up...I turned my part in and called it a night...I wanted to at least have submitted something, 6 being my first CAPE and all.

blah blah blah blah blah. (fock!)

[padboy]

Alright. just a post note. I talked B3Nut into joining this forum, and getting into CAPE 6. He's a killer player, I've known him for many years, and I consider him a good friend.

When I found out he was he was on a team with Roy, Otek and Goes, I thought wow. I've worked with all 3 of them on various CAPEs, and told him he got way lucky with a bunch like that.

When what happened happened, I felt like a sack of hammered shit. CP ruined what was supposed to be a great experience into a cluster.

He's signed on for C7. I haven't, I won't. But if he get's treated like he and the rest of the CP team did, I will hunt down those responsible.

You don't want to see me angry.

best, love and kisses, etc.

pb

[tonewheels]

After his infamous "we probably won't do a keyboard solo, but I'm thinkin...maybe we should do a solo, but we might end up cutting it after"
blah blah blah blah blah. (fock!)


Man.....I was under the impression that every song needed a Hamint awgan solo.....after all the thing has TONEwheels in it, not SCALEwheels...... sheesh......

[padboy]

Man.....I was under the impression that every song needed a Hamint awgan solo.....after all the thing has TONEwheels in it, not SCALEwheels...... sheesh......

That's because you and B3Nut and I play the dang things!

We might be a little biased, ya think?

best,

p-person

[Carlo]

I feel yer pain, Mudcat.

I didn't wanna be the bummer-guy, but I had the same experience in Team Saxplayerz...it really hurts when ya have to just watch it all go down.

[Cosmic Pig]

Okay it appears its a pig bashing fest. So I'll let y'all have it on my way out.

I said lets do it blues funk, which is why I picked that tune. What Mudcat, Goes and Otek came up with wasn't, so I said no. After realizing nobody was going to come up with any ideas in that genre I worked hard to come up with the parts. That took a few weeks. The drummer gave a good version at first, but I wanted a few details in the shots part done differently, I believe he just played through them. No biggie. He got busy, and the next two tracks he sent pushed the 1 and followed the guitar, which totally wasn't right. So that was a few more weeks. By the time we had the beds it was a week before the deadline and we didn't make it.

When people were apparently not getting it, because they wouldn't read or listen to any direction or just weren't digging it, I offered the out. I wasn't showing anyone the door, I was saying I'd understand if you weren't digging it or were too busy and wanted out. I said that again after the deadline had passed. I thought I was being respectful of other's schedules and interest in the project.


B3nut, I said do a solo for the second half, you didn't. I said that before the deadline. I did a part for the keys and a part for the guitar, clearly laid out for you guys because that was the only way we were going to wind up with parts that fit together, not that anybody actually submitted any parts to work with. You did the guitar part. I came up with a guitar version of the keys part. It all took time.

I think Mudcat bailed is because he couldn't do justice to raw blues funk. Mudcat doesn't do raw. He's an excellent player but not the type I asked for in the producers forum. In fact if any of this was still available you would see that I specifically said Mudcat was the opposite of what I needed for the tune as I saw it when the producers were asking for player types.

So here's what actually happened. I don't know who did what with the version Mudcat, Otek and Goes came up with, but once I said no it was apparently the end, to which nobody had the decency to say so. Goes said he wasn't digging it, and I said sorry but I have to do it my way, which to some my version was amateur and awful. I got one mix and no editing from Otek. By then I knew that was all I was going to get.

All through this experience very few read anything I said, or listened to the MP3's. In short I got zero from most of the team. I told Otek the guitar was supposed to be almost a pre-echo when I sent it to him for mix. I wonder now if the guitar wasn't yanked to the front on purpose, but I suspect he just didn't read anything like the rest of the team.

Jeff C was helpful. B3nut was game but couldn't do many tracks. In cape 5 everybody was tossing in tons of tracks, but because my team sucked I got one or two if I was lucky.

You guys blew it as much as I did. I should have just handed it over to the supposedly more experienced and rode along playing at producer, but I didn't.

But ya know, its possible my version of it is in fact awful. Maybe if someone would have come up with something in the genre I saw it in I would have done that, who knows. What I wound up with was a few very unprofessional players with delusions of grandeur who went about undermining where they could.

Where I really did fuck up was not matching the tune to the more deluded players, but half the team knew funk blues so I figured we'd be okay. A lot of what I'm saying can be backed up with the team CP forum if thats around or anybody really cares about facts.

I doubt this will work considering it never did in 57 pages of the JB thread, or however many pages the genre biased thread was, but I'll try it again anyways.

In one type of music like Sting or Steely Dan some people see colors and tapestry in it, other see sterility. In another type of music like The Stones or early punk some see energy and life, others see sloppy amateur chops. One type is considered more advanced musically than the other. Where the Womb is genre biased isn't in genre, its in the perception that if its not advanced its shit. I think I was more fighting with the type of snobbery than actual issues over my producer skills. Ya I dropped the ball, and so did some of the team.

Anyways, I left y'all lots of space for multi-quoting so have at it. I won't be reading any of it. I'm outa here, and I'll try not to let the door hit my ass on the way out. I had fun with a lot of you guys but this is stupid. I'd hang around and argue but it's too one sided. I learned a few things but I don't imagine any of you did. I'm pretty sure I'm not that far off with a lot of my concepts, but differing realities have collided and mine is getting lonely. Best of luck to all you guys, even you BB haha. I know you guys aren't assholes in real life, but some of you sure are in here, and have chased me around the forum with a vengeance. Well you win because its getting too high on my list and I have shit to do. No hard feelings I hope. Apologies to the innocent victims of my ravings, such as Anna B and Jeff C or any others who got stuck with the ride.

Still think I kicked the fuck outa that solo.

Cos.

[Cosmic Pig]

Goes, for some reason there's no edit button in my post in the cape 7 signup thread, so if you wouldn't mind, delete my signup post for me? Its on page 2.

Thanks.

Cos.

[jerryskid]

What I wound up with was a few very unprofessional players with delusions of grandeur who went about undermining where they could.

He just doesn't get it does he....It's never your fault when your ego is bigger than your talent.....:Wink:

[Goes211]

Goes, for some reason there's no edit button in my post in the cape 7 signup thread, so if you wouldn't mind, delete my signup post for me? Its on page 2.

Thanks.

Cos.

That's not normal but I will gladly fix it for you.
Cos, no animosity here from me, and I've refrained from any comment so far.
But that doesn't mean I don't have anything to say.
I'm in between sessions here so I hardly have time to get into details. But I will, trust me.

[trumpetboy]

Note to self:

Stop taking people skill lessons from CosmicPig. :Roll eyes:

TB

[QweziRider]

Note to self:

Stop taking people skill lessons from CosmicPig. :Roll eyes:

TB
That's a hoot! Mr. Sunshine you are. :D

[Goes211]

Hey Cos,
it's interesting how there are many sides to every story.
Here's my recollection.
I created that team, and I put you in the producer seat (so I a sense, I am to blame for this mess :grin: )
As a tiny perk in view of the shitload of work CAPE represents, I figured I'd put myself in an "easy" team. With otek and MudCat (whom I both know personally and with whom I've worked on MANY VERY DIVERSE projects) I figured there was no way this team could fail.

In otek you have one of the best mixers around, period. He's a frickin monster of a musician and arranger to boot. I would let him tweak my most cherished musical endeavours and not worry for a nanosecond that the result would be anywhere below stellar. In MudCat you have perhaps the most identifiable guitar sound I've heard in years. It takes but half a bar and you go "MudCat !". I have done so many collabs with him that I just know how painless and treasurable the next ones will be.
Did I mention that both otek and MudCat are extremely generous human beings ? They have tact, diplomacy, intelligence by the truckload, and a musical culture to scare many a musicologist.
These are my friends. My house is theirs. That's how close we are. Kind of a crazy notion, but you don't dis my friends, especially when it's BS.
Now, what was the only provision for me on CAPE 6 again ? Oh yes. I wanted to have some fun. Simple as that.
You picked AnnaB's tune, and I thought that was a fine choice because we could do that with a ukulele and a vocal track and still have a killer tune. It's that good a song.

So, when we started, apart from the fact that you said "funk rock" you didn't give any direction.
BTW, if you listen to my track record - if only on CAPE - you'll find out that funk rock...is my thing.
Anyway...otek, MudCat and me have a little bit of experience when it comes to these things.
See, we were doing online collabs together even BEFORE CaPE.
So we tried to help you jumpstart the process. We discussed several ideas. We exchanged reference tracks.
We even had a conference call with you where you said it was all good (I'm not alone in remembering this).
Then it appeared you didn't like these suggestions, and as a producer, that was fine. It was part of your gig.
But that meant we could only watch and look at you come up with something.
When otek tried to help out you told him to "wait and mix" when his time would come.
So we waited, and nothing happened.

Then you came up with these audio "maps".
Man, I have saved them as a reference for myself in "how NOT to explain your point".
It was you noodling over half a bar of music, puffing on a ciggy, stopping, going back and talking over it, then another bar or two, then a swig of beer, then another stop & rant, all often in disregard of the most basic conventions such as the one that says that when it comes to the spoken word in audio, saturation is rarely a good thing.
Your "maps" are to producing what Caquino Hernandez (http://www.angelfire.com/ult/caquino/) is to trumpet, and that is no mean feat.

Nevertheless, we made the best of it and the team tried to make some sense out of your ramblings.
Sure, it was shaky to say the least. But I'm a pro, so I recorded a vocal, and felt like a swimmer taking breaths at the wrong places.
By that time, the fun was gone.
Your take on the tune meant it would be 1 minute of Anna's tune followed by three (3) solos- talk about featuring the song :Roll eyes: - followed by the outro of Anna's tune.
At that point, I spoke up and told you in the team forum that I thought you were perhaps headed in the wrong direction, but that I would respect your take on it.
Let me correct that. I said I foresaw a major trainwreck, but that I would respect your take on it.
Even at that stage the experiment was a valid one for me, because I was genuinely curious what you would make of it.
Regardless of the fact that I wasn't enjoying the ride, I figured perhaps your vision would prove me wrong and since I have no ego in these matters, it would all be good. And I seem to recall everyone remained utterly civil to each other, so it was indeed all good.
Let it also be clear that for the duration of all this, I wasn't even aware of the whole JB thread debacle.

That you weren't able to convey your ideas to the team is no biggie. Producer shoes ain't always easy to fill, and we're all supposed to be learning something in the process.
What really irks me : you weren't in this as a producer. You were only in this to showcase your chops and your "tone".
MudCat can't do raw funk ? MudCat could dance a Mazurka on roller skates and still kill doing the raw funk.
But what is the point in telling MudCat how he should play each note ? If your own playing is the only one that works, fine. Except that by then, you're way out of the realm of CAPE.
That is where I believe you erred. You didn't produce a band (or a team), you produced yourself.
I have sifted through all the discussions in the producer's forum (it's still there for you to see), and never ever do you mention something where (and I quote your post above) you "specifically said Mudcat was the opposite of what I needed for the tune as I saw it".
On the contrary, you said (and I quote) "I suspect I'll get the players involved in the parts end of things. Utilizing the talents is a big factor."
You didn't utilize the talents, because the only talent that mattered was yourself.
And that's where otek, MudCat and myself (I can't speak for the others) weren't interested anymore.
For the sake of the other guys on the team, I gave you a vocal track. It's dull and it's dead, but I couldn't for the life of me give it any more than that.
Perhaps there is indeed only one way to sing your version, and I'm beginning to think you would have rather done it yourself, just like the guitars.

Part of the brief for CAPE 6 producers was to "come up with a hit". But it was also to use the talent on the team and "make it work".
I believe otek, Mud & myself tried like hell to make it work, but it took us quite a while to realize you didn't really want that help.

Then I stumbled onto that whole discussion in the JB thread and suddenly realized what this was all about.
In the words of Basil Fawlty, "Mr. Tone is in the room, dear".
In that thread, you sound like the keeper of the Holy Tone Grail.
To me, tone means jack shit, because what is "tone" to you may be drivel to me.
For instance, I believe MudCat or Trazan have more "tone" playing through a DI and stomp box than most self-proclaimed tonemeisters playing through their fave stack of valves.
The list of folks with their own personal "tone" is endless, and almost all of them are miles away from your notion of tone.
But I'd rather take a player whose playing and personality I can pick out from the crowd than one who only tries to emulate some kind of sacred belief of how guitars should sound.
You may not like MudCat's playing, his tone, and you may try to steer him into a direction he may not be able to see (which I would very much doubt).
But when it comes to personality, guitar chops and global musicianship, he will hand you your hat anytime.
If you did this to any band who hired you as a producer, you would be sacked in a heartbeat.
And all that would possibly make sense if your own playing was up to scratch.
Unfortunately, not even close.
You can only attempt to give lessons when your track record is up to par.

Cos, do you realize that none of us had spoken out publicly about this whole mess
until you dug up the trash ?
Discussions in the producer's and team forums have been kept totally private.
That's how nice we are, really.
It would have been easy to take cheap shots, but none of us did, even though you've handed everyone the baseball bat to beat you, time and again.
And that's ok, until you piss off the wrong punk.
Bingo.

Love,
Goes211

[TSTW]

You guys blew it as much as I did.

Where I really did fuck up was not matching the tune to the more deluded players



hmmm

[otek]

Well....


...Wow.


I know Cos said he wouldn't be reading this, and I'm not gonna get on the pile or speak for anyone else, but I will state some things clearly for the record. I don't appreciate going out of my way and then being slandered for it.


I said lets do it blues funk, which is why I picked that tune. What Mudcat, Goes and Otek came up with wasn't, so I said no. After realizing nobody was going to come up with any ideas in that genre I worked hard to come up with the parts.

First, I don't think I've ever made a record where I or the musicians talked about genre first, and the song second. In almost all cases, the style is implied either by example or by the nature of the music at hand.

Second, the first example in this case was just me laying out some chords on a Rhodes patch. It was never intended to be any kind of final result, merely a different take on the harmony of the tune. It could have been made funky as all hell, if need be. But any further attempts at suggestions or directions were thwarted quite early on in the process, because it was pretty obvious Cos wasn't gonna have any of it.

I offered the out. I wasn't showing anyone the door, I was saying I'd understand if you weren't digging it or were too busy and wanted out.

This kind of illustrates my previous paragraph and the vibe in the team. Instead of working with the musicians to come up with a solution, we were offered a chance to butt out.

I got one mix and no editing from Otek. By then I knew that was all I was going to get.

I told Otek the guitar was supposed to be almost a pre-echo when I sent it to him for mix. I wonder now if the guitar wasn't yanked to the front on purpose, but I suspect he just didn't read anything like the rest of the team.

Now, these two paragraphs irked me quite a bit.

First of all, Cos NEVER asked me for a remix, which, taking into account his chief criticisms, would have been very easy to do. Instead, as with a lot of other things, he went on and ASSUMED I wouldn't do a remix, just like he ASSUMED Mudcat can't play funk, or ASSUMED his guitar was "yanked to the front on purpose". I will get to that last little gem in a minute.

As for the "no editing" crock, I had specified that the tracks should be ready for mix when I got them, because frankly I don't want to spend hours fixing mistakes at the mix stage which could easily have been resolved earlier on. As it turned out, I had to do several edits on the material: some were done to fix obvious bad edits that had been done earlier, and one was done because the producer was too lazy to put his own guitar parts in the proper place in the track. No performance editing was done, however. At least not by me.

Lastly, the "I mixed the guitar purposly too loud" part.

I can't recall ever receiving instructions to mix the guitar "like a pre-echo" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean).

I did, however, take a very good look at what was there to support the harmony.

One guitar, and one B3 organ. This is quite sufficient most of the time, but you have to make both of them count, or it's gonna sound like Emerson Lake & Palmer. Still, it may have been too loud for some people (I am assuming we are talking about the rhythm part - the solo is the fucking lead and needs to carry the red shirt). I would have been happy to address this loudness - see above.

As for the "map mp3s" intended as a guide to the musicians, let me just say I know them pretty well by now. :Roll eyes:


Cheers,

otek

[cozmicslop]

This last couple of pages should be archived under CaPE catasrophies as a primer for future participants.

Every one of these experinces/experiments has had a team or two, or three, or four, beset by everything from personal responsibilities, to injuries, to even death in the family. I'm grateful to say, I've never been on a team that was affected or destroyed/unable to produce because of ego or animus.

It's a team thing.

And though there's a competitive aspect...It's still supposed to be fun. If you aint havng fun, why fuckin' do it?

I had more, but like Forrest Gump..

..that's all I have to say about that.

[TSTW]

Cosmic Pig.

I do feel after reading many of your posts, you are trying to justify a mistake you made. In fact, it's not a mistake, it's perhaps inexperience. Regardless, with that statement I'm not slating your experience level of producing, mixing, engineering in RL. In the online collaboration there is clearly (and from experience) a different way of approaching and executing your decisions.

The fact you've not let the CAPE 6 problem lie IN THE CAPE 7 ANNOUNCEMENT thread makes me think that.

Some of the things you've said about your team members haven't been constructive, they've been personal, for which your team members have been respectful about you personally, only admitting their fury in well written, objective posts explaining how you didn't do or say certain things (quotes provided).

I feel all people are asking is for an apology for the way you've conducted yourself here. I wasn't privy to the intricacies of the private forum. What I've gleaned from your fellow team mates responses is maybe it's not an apology, it might well be an acceptance and admittance that you've been a pig headed ass?

TheStupidandnotsoWise

[Eddie G]

can you guys tell me what's the best 200 dollar compressor?

I'm really wondering how to give my shit some tone.

My back room smells like a dead mouse and I'm tipsy.

and for a while I confused Cozmicslop and cosmic p., who is in fact the ghost of Jimi Hunter.

I love you fucking guys.

Eddie

[Tim Halligan]

can you guys tell me what's the best 200 dollar compressor?

I'm really wondering how to give my shit some tone.

My back room smells like a dead mouse and I'm tipsy.

and for a while I confused Cozmicslop and cosmic p., who is in fact the ghost of Jimi Hunter.

I love you fucking guys.

Eddie


Steady on...


We'll have none of that kind of language around here thanks...

:lol:


Cheers,
Tim

[cozmicslop]

...
My back room smells like a dead mouse and I'm tipsy.

and for a while I confused Cozmicslop and cosmic p., who is in fact the ghost of Jimi Hunter.

...

Bite your tongue....


















...and slowly bleed out....























luv,




Coz...slop NOT pig.

[Swafford]

Good stuff and a great read. For all you new Capers and a reminder to vets, this is a good reason to keep this shit in the confines of your forums and our vaunted opinions of ourselves to ourselves.

To bad you didn't have Kong on that team. I would pay for access to that read.

[trumpetboy]

1

[trumpetboy]

That's a hoot! Mr. Sunshine you are. :D

May a crazed holy man sew your sister shut.

TB
:doubledeuce: :Wink:

[shhpeaceful]

So...my guess is that Cosmic Pig isn't going to be allowed to produce a CAPE ever again?


can you guys tell me what's the best 200 dollar compressor?


What's a compressor?

[bbkong]

Ok, I fucking give up.

From now on I'm snorting my coffee directly into my nose with a straw. It always winds up there anyway. wtf.


Well, if this truly is the swan song of the mighty Pig (which I really doubt) then it's a sad moment in time.

Let us bow our heads and eulogize.


Ah, the Pig.

I have never encountered anyone on the net who was so steadfast in his refusal to see any one's point of view but his own.

You have to stand back and admire that kind of tenacity. It puts him firmly in the company of world class deconstructionists like our beloved president.

In an effort to attempt some level of understanding his thinking I found it necessary to turn the microscope upside down, attach a bowl to the eyepiece and fill it with water. Then it all made perfect sense.

I mourn his passing with my very soul. Our humble corner of the world is darkened by this untimely exit and may never recover.

I sincerely hope that as this wound heals we don't rush out and find the next JP22 to fill this aching hole in our hearts.

To honor this event I will fly my fly at half mast for the rest of the day.

[bbkong]

Can we get a hymn here now?

Why, yes. I think I have just the right thing right here on my desk top. No idea where it came from.



Yes, I'm a bad bad boy.

[Swafford]

To honor this event I will fly my fly at half mast for the rest of the day.

Fuck, if this is were this is going, I'd be happy to zip mine up half way, but it'll make my wife just as embarrassed.

[jerryskid]

Can we get a hymn here now?

Why, yes. I think I have just the right thing right here on my desk top. No idea where it came from.



Yes, I'm a bad bad boy.

Wow...it's got a GREAT beat and you can dance 2 it...I'll give it a 97, Dick....:Wink:

[bbkong]

I've just been informed that I'm going straight to hell for posting that hymn.

Dust off a chair next to the window fan for me, will ya?

[Ein Mangfaldig Kar]

Oh! JP22!

We need another!
No sockpuppet!

[Swafford]

I've just been informed that I'm going straight to hell for posting that hymn.

Dust off a chair next to the window fan for me, will ya?

No sweat man, Cincinnati's just hot in the summer.

[shhpeaceful]

I have just the right thing right here.

...and how long have you been sitting on this little gem?

[bbkong]

Long enough for it to grow mold.

I found it pinned to the wall right next to a red urinal.

[dnafe]

Can we get a hymn here now?

Why, yes. I think I have just the right thing right here on my desk top. No idea where it came from.



Yes, I'm a bad bad boy.

:Thumbsup: :Thumbsup: :Thumbsup:

[McAllister]

What am I doing in this handbasket?

[kwiksilver]

What am I doing in this handbasket?

Going to hell?

:lol:

[sqkychair]

First off, bbkong, that little hymn you posted is damn funny while at the same time quite horrifying. Whoever created it obviously had some frustration to get off their chest. And, nice skilz to boot.:grin:

Now, after being involved in ALL the capes, I will say that I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO COSMICPIG. It sends a chill down my spine to hear his voice as he is obviously losing his grip on the task at hand.

This should be a WARNING TO ALL CAPE PARTICIPANTS.

What we have here is something I call... CAPE PSYCHOSIS.

I don't believe it will afflict you on your first CAPE. But, it can grab you at some point in your CAPE career.

You see... the deadlines have something to do with it. Not the big deadline at the end at which we have to turn everything in... that gets violated all the time. No, rather within the 3 months or so you have to do your song, there are little "miniature" deadlines.

For instance, the scratch track is done and now the drummer has to give us a first pass drum beat. He does not have a lot of time to do this. The other guys need to start laying down ideas to that beat.
Then, maybe the producer calls out for a quick rhythm guitar pass. You have a couple of days to get that up so you don't hold anybody else up. Maybe the vocalist needs to do a scratch vocal so everybody can be sure of where all the words fit it. Whatever, these deadlines are short, less than a week.

This is where the CAPE PSYCHOSIS can hit you. And it is a very real physical and mental sickness. I remember one team I was on and I needed to get some rhyhtm guitars up so we could tell where this song was going. Well, the playback began to mock me.

No matter what I played, it sounded like garbage. The sweats came everytime I sat down to do something. I could not even mentally hear a part that would fit into the scratch parts. Nothing made sense. I got locked into one idea and kept trying to make it work. OVER and OVER!! I began to go quite mad. I laid down parts and then just as quickly deleted them out of pure hatred for what was coming back on the monitors.

I began to hate what the other team members had done even though the real problem was me. I did not let on to them what was happening thinking I would shake it sooner or later.

In the end I turned in very little and it showed in the final product. I just pulled and cut my parts rather than redo them.

Luckily, the song did not turn out too bad. Thanks in large part to good basic performances from the rest of the team.

What I learned from this was to go ahead and lay down many different ideas and KEEP them. In the light of morning, they might turn out to be unpolished jewels that will work with some tweaking.
* Turn in a lot of stuff to the producer and let him sort out what fits his vision.
* Don't discount the other members ideas. Even if someone lays down a part that messes up an idea you had.
* Take ideas from the other members and sit on it for a day or two and maybe it will make sense to you.
* Realize that some of your parts aren't going to make the final cut. They won't al' fit into the overall picture.
* Don't let the CAPE PSYCHOSIS drag you down. Recognize it when it hits you and step back and take a breather. It's just music. It's not life and death. You've played music for a long time and you know what to do. Let it come out.

[Cosmic Pig]

I couldn't stay away. Just had to keep following this one last thread.

I may have figured it out. At first I was just going to direct the tune towards the blues funk thing, not write each part out. I realized things weren't working out because there wasn't a lot of communication coming at me from the team, and not many ideas either. The one idea from Mudcat Goes and Otek wasn't one I understood well and wasn't what I had in mind. The biggest reason I wound up writing all the parts is the style needs to have fairly well interconnected parts for the verse rhythms, and I just didn't see that developing.

I didn't get what I was doing wrong. I gave out the mp3's and got very little feedback or questions on them. Where you guys fucked up slightly was not asking questions about parts you weren't getting. I was on skype a lot waiting but nobody ever asked wtf is up with this whatever except Jeff. I produced like I usually do here in the studio when the idea is so undeveloped. Move the kick to the 1, try whatever like this etc. Usually here the player tells me he doesn't like or understand the part and we work it out. I don't often have much problem hashing it out with the players, and I usually adjust my perception according to the players input. In short I utilize the talents available. This time around I wasn't getting any feedback about the parts played or alternate suggestions in the genre so I just kept going.




It was a tough go for all involved and yup I fucked up. In spite of it all we got it done and it wasn't that bad. Where I fucked up is in how I didn't produce the tune for the players, I produced it for my own vision and some didn't see it the way I did right away and lost interest instead of talking it through. Goes said so but what he said was basically do it the Mudgotek way. I should have dropped my idea and gone with theirs. Simple does not equal amateur, nor does it equal bad. The concept of blues is simple and the message is delivered by performance. But whatever, I stuck to my guns.

But for all the problems we got through it. Some of the team was pissed off at me and didn't like the direction or my version, but we got through and finished it up. I would have rather had Mudcat and Brendo do the guitar work, and would have liked a solo from B3nut, but I didn't want to give up on the tune because I worked hard on it.

So for good or ill it got done and wasn't that bad. I would have liked the guitar push to be smaller with a big 1 on kick and bass, but what ya gonna do. I fucked up and the team was baffled but we got through and I dug it enough to hope the result would help with the teams disillusionment.

Now here's where the shit gets wacked out of proportion. I've never seen people flame a cape tune before. It just wasn't that fucking bad. So I'm on the defensive right off. When Mudcat and B3nut jumped on the pile trying to distance themselves from the first cape tune ever to be flamed I was hurt and lost it. To the point I started getting paranoid thinking Otek would purposely undermine it.

I've been called every insult in the most vitriolic and imaginative ways from a lot of people. It wasn't that fucking bad and I know I'm not that bad of either a guitar player or producer. I tried to bluster my way through with some humor and inflated ego but nobody seemed to be interested, they were having to much fun jumping on the destroy Cosmic Pig train. Some said the tune was okay and understood most of my ravings in the JB thread, but didn't want to jump in the fray partially because the guys I was arguing with are some of the supposed heavies around here. I'm cool with that, not everybody wants to argue endlessly over trivial shit with people they respect.

Well I did learn a lot of stuff. In spite of what some of you think I should have learned, it was mostly Goes and Oteks posts that gave me some insight as to where I actually fucked up. Calling the tune and my work amateur and everything else is bullshit. I've tried the olive branches enough, the tree is bare and I'm disgusted. Something else I learned is people in forums will focus on one sentence that they don't like and ignore the rest of the post. And I've been guilty of that myself. Thats also why I was calling the team unprofessional and being an asshole in general. Of course Mudcat could have played that.

Another factor might be I had three buddies who were looking forward to coming up with something they could have had fun with, and I screwed that up for them.

So thats why I'm outa here. With ego intact and my tail straight up so you can see my asshole. I know and have admitted many times I have much to learn and I'm not the best at anything, but I also know I have some skills. I've made many customers very happy, and knocked a crowd on its ass with my killer chops. I've also dissapointed some customers and crapped out horribly on stage, but the average is well over to the former. But ego intact or not this forum is not healthy or constructive any longer. When I start feeling like I'm fighting with the whole community to the point of paranoia over something that just wasn't that bad, its time to pack up my soapbox and get the fuck out.

I sorta suspect this whole clusterfuck has more to do with the JB thread than the actual tune or my producing. A few brought the shit from that into this, and I stupidly mixed them up. If you take anything away from all this make it that scraps should stay in the scrap threads. BB and a few others including myself, were dragging that shit around and that maybe was what set the whole thing off. So for future reference, be polite and file the crap whether you got your ass kicked or not.

Thanks to Otek and Goes for constructive criticism not aimed solely at shooting me down, and all the other guys who gave words of encouragement.

BB that tune is fucking funny. If thats how confused it sounded through the whole thing no wonder the tune went sideways. But see there again, when I said stuff that made no sense most just ignored it instead of asking for clarification. But holy fuck I laughed my ass off. How you got the files to fuck with kinda feeds the paranoia tho.

Sqkychair's cape psychosis makes a certain sense too.

So anyways, later y'all. It was fun and now it ain't, maybe I'll pop in now and then. Peace.

Cos.

[EyreSpace]

Now, that should be on the Cape Radio. seriously.

[bbkong]

Dang, I gotta wring out my hankie now.

I sorta suspect this whole clusterfuck has more to do with the JB thread than the actual tune or my producing.


Not so much with the actual thread, more because you developed a habit of talking with your foot in your mouth.

And yeah, when that tune finally did come out it was far below the standards you've been advertising for the last couple of months.

But it's ok. It's been a great floor show.

Live and learn.

No reason to duck out of here now, there's still a lot to learn.


Try googling the word 'contrition'. It's a wonderful concept and right about now it'd look really good on you.

[trumpetboy]

Can we get a hymn here now?

Why, yes. I think I have just the right thing right here on my desk top. No idea where it came from.



Yes, I'm a bad bad boy.

When I was a Southern Baptist minister/preacher/twit, I would open each church service with that sacred hymn. It was a closely guarded secret among SB's. How the hell did you crack the code and get yer hands on it?

The Scientologists have nothing on the SB's when it comes to revenge and hit men.

Sleep with one eye open.

Rev. TB
:lol: :lol: :Thumbsup: :Thumbsup:

[Carlo]

Sleep with one eye open.

Rev. TB
:lol: :lol: :Thumbsup: :Thumbsup:

Amen.

[nobby]

How you got the files to fuck with kinda feeds the paranoia tho.

If there's anything left of your shrunken, shredded thinking cap, put it on and figure it out. Who had the files, DUH!

Here's another clue for you all...


Whoever created it obviously had some frustration to get off their chest. And, nice skilz to boot.:grin:


I was thinking of posting it (it's been around since late January) but Bubba, who has slightly more balls :grin: beat me to it. Keeping it under wraps was a travesty; I second the motion to put it on CAPE radio.

[Tim Armstrong]

Yikes! Glad I glanced in to see why this thread was still cooking!

:icon_eek:

One short thought for the Pig: sounds to me like you might have confused the term "producer" for "artist". A producer is supposed to be working to help the artist (who in the case of CAPE teams is the whole team) realize their artistic (or commercial) goals.

Unless you were thinking "Alan Parsons Project" or somefink...

:Roll eyes:

Cheers, Tim

[Fletcher]

Only 3 songs? And all by the same songwriter? For an event that typically seems to have 12-15 teams, and continues to grow with each iteration?

Seems overly restrictive to me.

Gee... and I thought it was the best idea I'd heard in a while... in the other ones I found myself listening to the song choice/writing more than the performances/production... I think the "song choice" idea is a great way to be able to really look at other production/performance choices and [hopefully] stretch the creativity given the confinement of song options.

As always... YMMV.

Peace.