writer's share 101

[con mucho gusto]

greetings business advisers!

what constitutes actually being considered co-writer?

i've co-produced a hip hop track that may just end up being the single on this guy's new record (that may or may not do well, but that's beside the point). basically, the tune is an acoustic guitar finger picky thing w/ a vocal melody for the chorus and raps for the verses. I brought the entire backing track to the table...a doubled bass/guitar line that is a definite hook/melody, then an dr. dre-ish organ melody that comes in halfway through the verses.

he's arguing that i shouldn't be given credit...mainly because the song was a song well before the session, and the fact that i'm getting co-production credit as well as instrumental & mixing credits. But no points on the sale of the record or publishing. we agreed from the start that it was a work for hire. fair enough. lesson learned.

but should i insist on AT LEAST getting co-writer credit for the 1 tune?

I'm starting to feel taken advantage of (mainly cuz the guy ran out of cash way early on and i ended up mixing and doing tons of other shit for free)...and shit can get ugly when one feels taken advantage of. :Mad:

i feel like he should be offering me this and then some...i fucking made his whole record...and drove his ass to dc to get it mastered.

[Azraphael]

First off, I don't know too much about this, but I'll give it a shot...

Sounds to me like you're a bit screwed here. If you didn't work out the writing thing ahead of time, on paper, this is going to be tough. From what you're describing, I think it's reasonable that you get a co-writer credit. Typically credits get broken down into 2 things: music, and lyric. If I'm understanding you correctly, you wrote the music, and he provided the lyrics. That sounds pretty straightforward to me as a co-writing situation.

I'm guessing that since you've already driven him to DC to get it mastered that this is a done deal. I think you'd have a fair case should you choose to pursue legal action, but it might end up as a your word vs. his sort of situation, unless you have some way of proving that you are the composer of the music (i.e. previous recordings or similar).

Normally I would say that your best bet would be to withhold the masters, or at the very least the tracks you provided, until you had this agreement sorted out on paper. These things are always harder after the fact.

Depending on the individual, you might want to consult with a lawyer and have him/her draft a nice, official letter for you stating that unless you're given co-writer's credit for this track, you will pursue legal action against him. I would also explicity state in the letter that the legal action will be to recoup additional studio costs (i.e. the stuff he didn't pay you for), co-writing credit, points towards sale, etc. Make it strong, professional, and to the point. Hopefully it'll scare him into doing the right thing.

However, if you go that route, you'll probably want to be prepared to back it up and follow through with legal action if it becomes necessary. It's up to you whether it's worth the time, money and aggrivation this will cause.

If you don't want to invovle lawyers, then I think you're at the "that sucked. Time to move on" stage. Unless there's some other leverage you have, formal legal action seems to be your only option to resolve this.

Best of luck with it, and look at this way: if nothing else, you've learned to get it all on paper first next time.

Cheers,

Dave

[dwoz]

Azraphael....I think the question of "what be dem rules" is an entirely different issue from "what should I do now...kneecap or teeth".


In the Grand Old Days, a copyrightable "song" was the lyric and the melody. Period.

Take that song, and put entirely new chords under it (reharmonize it) and its the same song.

Looking at it the other way around, take a production "bed" (chords, instruments, arrangement, production) and put a new lyric on it, and its a different song.

Use the same bed on ten different lyrics, and you've got ten different songs.

Now, the one "loophole" in this is that it is quite possible that there is a countermelody or primary instrumental treatment that constitutes part of the "core identity" of the song...a major "hook", for example...such that a discerning listener uniquely identifies that hook with THAT song, and THAT song is not complete without it.

Rap/urban/whatever presents us with a bit of a "definitional crisis"...what part of the thing is "the song" and what part is just supporting arrangement? Rap is, shall we say, somewhat unconcerned with what we would call 'traditional melody', so what constitutes the melody?

Most of rap seems to fall in the category of "derivative composition"...the word derivative meaning, based on and incorporating some other work...i.e. samples.

Of course, the use of samples must be licensed, and THAT means the licensee enjoys some share of the royalties.

So perhaps, what you do is simply copyright your bed music, and offer him liberal licensing terms on its use under his rap.

This would be in addition to your copyright interest in the SR (sound recording) itself.

But remember, I am not a lawyer. I just do a particularly bad imitation of one.

dwoz

[con mucho gusto]

There's definitely no clear cut answer...sounds like an ongoing battle in the hiphop world.

I'm a dipshit for not getting this stuff out of the way from the get-go- but sometimes when the creative juices are flowing, you just have to get out of the way and make music.

I've basically given this guy my opinion on the matter and left it up to him. He can take care of me if he wants to- and insure that I continue to hook him up w/ musicians, gear, studio time, rehearsal space etc. or he can shoot himself in the foot and pay my (full) rate or kiss my ass goodbye.

time to get dem der contracts together. :Yawn:

[Mixerman]

greetings business advisers!

what constitutes actually being considered co-writer?

i've co-produced a hip hop track that may just end up being the single on this guy's new record (that may or may not do well, but that's beside the point). basically, the tune is an acoustic guitar finger picky thing w/ a vocal melody for the chorus and raps for the verses. I brought the entire backing track to the table...a doubled bass/guitar line that is a definite hook/melody, then an dr. dre-ish organ melody that comes in halfway through the verses.

he's arguing that i shouldn't be given credit...mainly because the song was a song well before the session, and the fact that i'm getting co-production credit as well as instrumental & mixing credits. But no points on the sale of the record or publishing. we agreed from the start that it was a work for hire. fair enough. lesson learned.

but should i insist on AT LEAST getting co-writer credit for the 1 tune?

I'm starting to feel taken advantage of (mainly cuz the guy ran out of cash way early on and i ended up mixing and doing tons of other shit for free)...and shit can get ugly when one feels taken advantage of. :Mad:

i feel like he should be offering me this and then some...i fucking made his whole record...and drove his ass to dc to get it mastered.

In hip hop, the guy who makes the track is one of the songwriters. Look at the credits on hip hop albums. That's the way it is. That's the way it's always been. And I believe, no matter what, you are a songwriter on this. Gather some evidence of this, show him that it's standard, and tell him that you want your co-writer credit. If he refuses, send the track in for copyright, and if it's a hit, sue him.

Have you signed an agreement stating that you wouldn't use the track for anyone else? As a songwriter, it id typical to have a contract with the Artist who first cuts your song. THis contract is designed to give the Artist a certain amount of time in which to actually release the song. UNtil a song is actually published, and Artist needs PERMISSION to record and release the song. If you haven't signed anything like that, then frankly, you have him by the balls.

Mixerman

[Les Ismore]

Also,"work for hire" denotes actually getting paid. If he didn't pay you in full, he broke this agreement imo and all bets are off.