Tried the sidewash thing. Interesting.

[freepatriot]

7-piece band. Drummer, bass, guitar/lead vox, keys, three backup singers. Straightahead bluesy/rock and roll sound. Gov't Mule-ish, vaguely.

Traditionally, the singers have shared a wedge, and everyone else gets their own wedge, in addition to their own amps nearby.

This past weekend, I tried something new. I stacked up all the wedges on end at both ends of the stage, washing across the group. It certainly cleaned up the floor area :grin:

I mixed a few of the wedges on each sides of the stage with vox and the rest of the wedges with different blends of instruments, and put our amps out there too, washing across the stage at us. At the soundboard with our stuff full on but the house mains OFF, we were generating about 65db @ 30 ft. Pretty quiet, which, I believe, allowed the sound guy to work with just the sounds coming out of his mains without fighting stage noise.

Also, I seem to appreciate the guitar tone better from this distance. Is this Slippy's "blooming sound" at work, or do you think it's mostly psychotropic/placebo on my part?

Our impression on stage: the sounds seemed to be more 'surrounding' and 'live-feeling' than when the wedges are under our chins, pointed up at us. It certainly seemed to me that the musicians got into each other's playing more than in the past. (The band is not a jam band, but a band that jams, as Greg Allman would say).

I'm going to do it again next weekend and see if it is as enjoyable the second time around.

Your thoughts?

[Tim Armstrong]

I've been doing it that way for quite a while, and really like:

1. how much better we can control our onstage volume.
2. how much better we call can hear each other.
3. how much less our onstage sound affects the mix out front.

:Thumbsup:

Cheers, Tim

[freepatriot]

Exactly, Tim. Thanks for saying what I was meaning to say, but better.

It just sounds more cohesive. Instead of getting blasted by the wedge under my feet, like an insistent four year old who wants a popsicle, the music was around us.

[pounce]

i'm hoping bob olhsson will chime in here as he stated that many of the motown bands preferred performing that way as well. i totally see the advantage here. it's easy to see how players could prefer this. i can easily imagine a band that is playing together better and balancing themselves better this way. i'm all for it.

[Bob Olhsson]

The folks I've known always preferred working this way when the venue is small enough to get away with it. I hope people get real creative rather than doing only what they've seen others do.

[Mojo]

When I was providing for a club a few years back, I mixed a 5 piece jam band that asked for everything from not in the monitors. I decided to put something unique together for them and ended up keeping some variation on that theme for everyone else. I had the two gtr amps on chairs in front of them, ran a wedge left and right and put the opposite gtr in them, then flew two speakers just inside the stacks back over their heads and put 2 sends of vox in those. Ran the lead vocalist equal in each aux channel and panned the other voxs accordingly. I was able to run the stage at a greatly reduced level and things became more under control out front. Side bonus was they played their asses off and the clientel even noticed the difference.

[freepatriot]

Did it again this weekend. Very good results. Gtr coming from both sides, had keys from left and bass from right. Miked drums coming from both sides. Vox coming from both sides.

I noticed the band complained during sound check about hearing other instruments over their own, but I asked them to try to live with it for a little bit. Then, after the gig, they marveled at how well they could 'hear the whole band'.

Scotty

[ggunn]

Did it again this weekend. Very good results. Gtr coming from both sides, had keys from left and bass from right. Miked drums coming from both sides. Vox coming from both sides.

I noticed the band complained during sound check about hearing other instruments over their own, but I asked them to try to live with it for a little bit. Then, after the gig, they marveled at how well they could 'hear the whole band'.

Scotty

The only prob I can see is that the center of the stage where the lead vocalist usually resides is at the farthest point from the monitors, and it's the lead singer who usually wants to have his/her monitors the loudest.

[freepatriot]

The only prob I can see is that the center of the stage where the lead vocalist usually resides is at the farthest point from the monitors, and it's the lead singer who usually wants to have his/her monitors the loudest.

Very good point. In my situation the lead singer/guitar player (me) is at upstage left, angled 45 degrees towards downstage right. The only guy in dead center is keys & he does not sing.

Folks with other stage plots need to keep your point in mind. Real good.

:)

[Tim Armstrong]

I put the instrument amps on either side, facing towards the middle, so they DON'T have to be in the monitor mix. I do the vocal monitors in the usual way.

Best of both worlds!

Cheers, Tim

[graymc]

The only prob I can see is that the center of the stage where the lead vocalist usually resides is at the farthest point from the monitors, and it's the lead singer who usually wants to have his/her monitors the loudest.

I did sound over new years for a really cool local band but they wanted the vocals up the edge of feedback in the monitors. When I'd pull the vocals back the lead singer would start killing his voice by yelling until I'd bring them back up. I danced on the edge of feedback all night. What is it with singers wanting so much monitor these days?

[Droolbucket]

I did sound over new years for a really cool local band but they wanted the vocals up the edge of feedback in the monitors. When I'd pull the vocals back the lead singer would start killing his voice by yelling until I'd bring them back up. I danced on the edge of feedback all night. What is it with singers wanting so much monitor these days?

Singers have to be able to hear themselves over the stage volume (and sometimes the crowd volume). If the monitor is screamingly loud and on the edge of feedback, the rest of the band needs to turn down. Of course, the guitar players have to be able to hear themselves, also.......
Which leads us right back to Tarm's solution. Put the guitar amps off to the side of the stage, point them across and up at the guitar player, and mic them. Now they're pointed right at the guitar player's ear, and can be a lot quieter. The vocal monitors stay up front, blaring right at the vocalist.
My band has done this for so long that I'm really uncomfortable with my guitar amp behind me. If we do a show with a shared backline, and I don't have any say over where my amp is positioned, I'm definitely out of my comfort zone.
As a part-time sound guy, it's a real pleasure to have the guitar amps' volumes controllable out front. I honestly think it's a part of growing as a musician... you have to learn when NOT to play, and you also have to learn how quietly to play. You have to sacrifice a little adrenaline in order to make the band sound better.

Droolbucket

[ggunn]

I honestly think it's a part of growing as a musician... you have to learn when NOT to play, and you also have to learn how quietly to play. You have to sacrifice a little adrenaline in order to make the band sound better.


I'm hip. It's the old mistake of confusing intensity with volume.

[Brendo]

To solve the "lead vocal furthest away from sidefill" issue, couldn't you run a single, vocal only monitor, to fill this out in the center of stage? This is the only thing that's really kept us from trying this in the past.